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Yeah, we voted on tolls kinda
Austin American-Statesman ^ | October 16, 2006 | Ben Wear

Posted on 10/16/2006 6:45:49 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Do you remember voting on the Trans-Texas Corridor?

Me neither. But I think I might have. Sort of.

Toll road proponents have said over the past couple of years that Texans had voted to authorize what has turned out to be a very aggressive push for toll roads. Gov. Rick Perry said as much in the Oct. 6 gubernatorial election debate.

One of the moderators relayed a question from a McKinney woman asking why Texans haven't gotten to vote on the "Trans-Texas Corridor and related toll highways."

The corridor is Perry's 4,000-mile plan of tollways, railroads and utility lines.

The governor's response was deft.

"First and foremost, the people of Texas had the opportunity to vote on a substantial amount of that in a constitutional amendment," he began, going on to say that the Legislature had debated and passed toll laws in several sessions. The voters, he said, "sent a clear message of how we're going to build infrastructure."

What actually happened is that in a September 2003 election, 810,855 Texans said yes to ballot language that only the most wonkish among them could have known authorized wholesale borrowing for toll roads. The 45 words on the ballot, in fact, do not include the words "toll" or "turnpike."

Here's what Proposition 14 proposed:

"The constitutional amendment providing for authorization of the issuing of notes or the borrowing of money on a short-term basis by a state transportation agency for transportation-related projects, and the issuance of bonds and other public securities secured by the state highway fund."

I was told at the time that the purpose of this was to allow the agency to borrow here and there against future gas-tax revenue to address cash-flow problems. And that, in fact, is what the first part of the language refers to.

But then there's a comma, and some more words. Some technical but powerful words that amounted, apparently, to the electorate saying, "Whoo-eee, slap some toll roads on us, baby!"

Now, Texans did approve another constitutional amendment, this one in 2001, that created the Texas Mobility Fund, and it actually said the money could go to "state highways, turnpikes, toll roads, toll bridges, and other mobility projects." A total of 543,759 Texans said yes to that one.

In 2003, lawmakers dedicated some fees allowing that fund to borrow $4 billion or more.

And as the governor said, that same year the Legislature approved a huge bill allowing the creation of the Trans-Texas Corridor. That bill, passed in a session marked by Democrats fleeing to Ardmore, Okla., and a $10 billion budget gap, got little press coverage.

Did Texans vote on the Trans-Texas Corridor? Not in any real sense.

Did we vote on a "substantial amount" of the toll road revolution? Yes, technically, in a special September 2003 election with predictably poor turnout and all the focus on other amendments, we gave the Texas Department of Transportation carte blanche to borrow for roads and charge tolls.

Who knew? Almost no one.


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: cuespookymusic; dearrubes; kookmagnetthread; referendum; rickperry; texas; tolls; transtexascorridor; transtinfoilcorridor; ttc; tx
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Definitely sounds like a "Dear Rubes" amendment...
1 posted on 10/16/2006 6:45:50 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: TxDOT; 1066AD; 185JHP; Abcdefg; Adrastus; Alamo-Girl; antivenom; AprilfromTexas; B-Chan; barkeep; ..

Trans-Texas Corridor PING!


2 posted on 10/16/2006 6:46:43 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Hugo Chavez is the Devil! The podium still smells of sulfur...)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

It's going to be Governor Goodhairs own version of the Big Dig. Texas sized, it'll cost at least a Trillion by the time its all said and done.


3 posted on 10/16/2006 6:54:04 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Well, my days of not taking your seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Austin American-Statesman

If this proven left-wing extremist rag is against TTC--then commonsense screams out this must be great for the state of Texas.

Demagoguery is send out all kinds of red flags to conservatives... .

4 posted on 10/16/2006 6:55:05 AM PDT by 100-Fold_Return (They Took My Saddle in Houston, Broke My Leg in Santa Fe, Lost Wife + Girlfriend)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
So much for enumerated powers.

RINOs give the rest of the party a bad reputation.

5 posted on 10/16/2006 7:00:27 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

What the writer conveniently leaves out is that 2 years earlier voters did approve TXDOT using toll financing, as specifically stated in the ballot language:

"Proposition 15 : The constitutional amendment creating the Texas Mobility Fund and authorizing grants and loans of money and issuance of obligations for financing the construction, reconstruction, acquisition, operation and expansion of state highways, turnpikes, toll roads, toll bridges and other mobility projects."

And anti-toll groups were screaming about it in 2001, so this was never some big secret slipped past the voters as the writer claims:

http://corridornews.blogspot.com/2001/10/proposition-15-would-allow-state-to.html

Prop. 15 passed in 2001 with 67% of the vote.

So there was at least 2 years of debate about toll roads before Prop. 14 went to the voters in 2003.


Just more dishonesty, lies, and revisionist history from the anti-TTC/anti-Perry types. If they are right on the issues, why the need to be dishonest?


6 posted on 10/16/2006 7:04:13 AM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

That is why Perry HAS TO GO in this election. I pondered long and hard about my protest vote, but with Strayhorn being in second place ahead the Dem challenger, I don't have to think about it any more.


7 posted on 10/16/2006 7:07:54 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Mr. Wear actually did mention that amendment:

Now, Texans did approve another constitutional amendment, this one in 2001, that created the Texas Mobility Fund, and it actually said the money could go to "state highways, turnpikes, toll roads, toll bridges, and other mobility projects." A total of 543,759 Texans said yes to that one.

8 posted on 10/16/2006 7:08:19 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Hugo Chavez is the Devil! The podium still smells of sulfur...)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

OK, my bad, but his implying that there wasn't much discussion of toll roads regarding Prop. 14 and the 2003 election is bunk, both proponnents and anti-toll road groups were tying the two together all during election season.


9 posted on 10/16/2006 7:12:15 AM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: ravingnutter
That is why Perry HAS TO GO in this election.

Yes, much better to fund our roads through raised taxes than to actually let private investors fund much of them and let each person have a choice in whether or not they want to pay for a particular road. Can't have that...

10 posted on 10/16/2006 7:14:33 AM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat

"What the writer conveniently leaves out is that 2 years earlier voters did approve TXDOT using toll financing, as specifically stated in the ballot language:

"Proposition 15 : The constitutional amendment creating the Texas Mobility Fund and authorizing grants and loans of money and issuance of obligations for financing the construction, reconstruction, acquisition, operation and expansion of state highways, turnpikes, toll roads, toll bridges and other mobility projects."

And anti-toll groups were screaming about it in 2001, so this was never some big secret slipped past the voters as the writer claims:

http://corridornews.blogspot.com/2001/10/proposition-15-would-allow-state-to.html"


Sounds to me like they boiled this frog a bit at a time....


11 posted on 10/16/2006 7:36:01 AM PDT by Colorado Mike (Lord, help me be the Conservative my enemies think I am.)
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To: Colorado Mike

Oh, yes it was a BIG secret. It wasn't in the news in South Texas until it was a done deal. I still don't recall the legistlature voting on it. It was just announced by Perry that Cintra had the contract.


12 posted on 10/16/2006 7:50:47 AM PDT by texastoo ("trash the treaties")
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Just more dishonesty, lies, and revisionist history from the anti-TTC/anti-Perry types. If they are right on the issues, why the need to be dishonest?

Well, ibid, and BTTT!

I moved to Texas in 2003 because it was common knowledge that the primary funding mechanism for the TTC was going to be toll revenues. I'm not privy to backroom meetings and other such goings-on, so how did I know it if it was such a secret?

To me, it's important to be part of a community that thinks forward and is not buried in mistakes of the past. The current adminstration is providing real leadership by providing for our future transportation needs. Much unlike their detractors.

13 posted on 10/16/2006 7:51:37 AM PDT by Real Cynic No More (The only thing standing between us and complete victory over the evildoers is POLITICS!)
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To: Dead Corpse
It's going to be Governor Goodhairs own version of the Big Dig. Texas sized, it'll cost at least a Trillion by the time its all said and done.

Oh, like the new SH 130 roadway project in the Austin area that's months ahead of schedule and millions of dollars under budget?

14 posted on 10/16/2006 7:53:20 AM PDT by Real Cynic No More (The only thing standing between us and complete victory over the evildoers is POLITICS!)
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To: Diddle E. Squat

If they would quit looting state highway funds such as the 1 BILLION that was diverted last year alone (with reports of 10 Billion in all) there wouldn't be a shortage of funds. And private investors? Give me a break...this is a FOREIGN company. And what about the Perry aide, Dan Shelley, who worked for Cintra, went to the Governor's office, then went back to work for Cintra while the deal was being made? And why wouldn't Perry release the contract to the public previously? Shady deals one and all. Perry needs more than good hair to slick-talk this little lady.


15 posted on 10/16/2006 7:59:07 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: Real Cynic No More
All the toll roads there on North MOPAC connecting up to 620 were supposed to open next month.

Drove through there yesterday, ain't no way in hell they'll finish on time. And its going to cost how much per mile again?

SH-130 was already paid for via taxes and bond issues. How much of it's going to be tolled giving us double taxation? Same for the parts of MOPAC they will be tolling, and 290, and 183, ect...

Combine that in with the TTC and you've got a fleecing of the public not seen since Tammeny Hall.

16 posted on 10/16/2006 8:11:56 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Well, my days of not taking your seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: ravingnutter

And why wouldn't Perry release the contract to the public previously? Shady deals one and all.



I know you do a lot of research on things. Now since the contract has been release in toto can you enumerate the 'shady deals' that are in it?.....


17 posted on 10/16/2006 8:13:15 AM PDT by deport (The Governor, The Foghorn, The Dingaling, The Joker, some other fellar...... The Governor Wins)
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To: Dead Corpse

SH-130 was already paid for via taxes and bond issues.



Where segments 5 & 6 included in the bond issues, taxes you speak of?.... That's the portion allotted to Cintra/Zachry for construction and tolling, isn't it?


18 posted on 10/16/2006 8:16:41 AM PDT by deport (The Governor, The Foghorn, The Dingaling, The Joker, some other fellar...... The Governor Wins)
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To: Real Cynic No More
Further, please don't misunderstand my position. As a REPLACEMENT for our current highway funding (fees, taxes, licensing, ect...) system, I actually prefer privately owned toll roads.

What I object to are the cronyism, fraud, double/triple taxation, ect... that I see at every turn on this deal. All pushed through as "emergency" funding bills due to the last decade or so of their inaction on upgrading infrastructre while trying to push us into light-rail/commuter rail/buses.

Government caused these problems. Let's be VERY careful about any "solutions" these same idiots may come up with.

19 posted on 10/16/2006 8:29:57 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Well, my days of not taking your seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

BTTT


20 posted on 10/16/2006 8:40:43 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: texastoo

I still don't recall the legistlature voting on it.



Just curious..... Does the legislature have to vote on every contract the State of Texas enters or does the state have the right to enter contracts without legislative concurrence on each one if the contracts don't violate the state or federal laws?

I agree with you that I don't think the Legislature voted on this specific contract but again I'm not sure they were required to. I bet if they were required to vote on it there are enough people/groups out there to bring litigation on the issue/failure.


21 posted on 10/16/2006 9:16:39 AM PDT by deport (The Governor, The Foghorn, The Dingaling, The Joker, some other fellar...... The Governor Wins)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Thanks for the ping!


22 posted on 10/16/2006 9:23:11 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Paleo Conservative

TTC Ping


23 posted on 10/16/2006 9:58:15 AM PDT by DrewsDad
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To: Dead Corpse

My understanding is that Cintra/Zachry takes the hit if they go over budget on the TTC.


24 posted on 10/16/2006 10:01:19 AM PDT by DrewsDad
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To: deport
Most of the shady deals are done in the backroom. State Legislators taking more than 3 million dollars in contributions. Dan Shelley, working for Cintas, then the Governor, then Cintas again, not to mention that his daughter will also gain from this.

This plan was originally touted as using private funding, but that has changed since the deal was signed. The Texas Comptroller, Carole Strayhorn, issued a Special Report which exposed freeway tolls as double taxation and found no bid contracts given to non-elected board members and their friends in her report on Central Texas RMA. One of the companies that reportedly got no bid contracts in that report is run by a convicted criminal. They have used our tax dollars for a biased push poll

Perry keeps touting lack of money, but there is enough money and highway improvements that have already been funded are being rolled into this toll scheme. They are also invoking a gag rule to keep people from finding out the truth. They only released these details because they were forced to by the Attorney General.

Bottom line...the whole thing stinks. Until they start telling the public the real facts without all the spin and sleight of hand, they aren't getting my vote.

25 posted on 10/16/2006 10:04:14 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: Dead Corpse
What I object to are the cronyism, fraud, double/triple taxation, ect... that I see at every turn on this deal.

{Applause}

If Perry had been more up front with the voters, he wouldn't have these problems.
26 posted on 10/16/2006 10:12:00 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: Diddle E. Squat

"Yes, much better to fund our roads through raised taxes than to actually let private investors fund much of them and let each person have a choice in whether or not they want to pay for a particular road. Can't have that..."


So you like the idea of continuing to pay gas taxes and also paying toll charges so we can have more people move to Texas to fill more roads? Just how crowded do you want our State to become? Would 1 billion be a large enough population to suit you or do you think we need even more yankees to move to Texas?


27 posted on 10/16/2006 10:21:38 AM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: ravingnutter
You like the rest of us certainly have the right to vote for who you want to. However I have no problem with info being kept under wraps until the contracts are signed. Most major contracts even in the feds are that way. You can't put the info out until the deal is done.

I prefer the private financing and not issuing bonds or raising gas taxes to fund these types of roads. Texas basically operates or did on a pay as you go system. I know I travel the roads of Texas a lot and they are constantly working a few mile stretch for a few years and when complete move on to another few miles. Totally frustrating for those that have to travel the roads daily or for a living.

At least there is an attempt at moving the state forward in its transportation system[s] to build for the future instead of having to play catch up all the time. It is innovative and will have some problems as most new concepts do. The design, needs, etc will change over the next 50 years thus the projects under this concept will also. With the huge volume of imports coming through this state and expected population growth there has to be something done to plan/provide for it. So far I see nothing from the opposition but complaints....
28 posted on 10/16/2006 10:28:49 AM PDT by deport (The Governor, The Foghorn, The Dingaling, The Joker, some other fellar...... The Governor Wins)
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To: ravingnutter

They got some federal loans designed to encourage the building of toll roads. If federal money builds local roads, that's fine with me. It will be paid back by Cintra anyway.

It's good that you investigate the "secret connections" to Cintra, but those are also the industry experts and probably some of the most qualified people to make these decisions. I wouldn't immediately assume the worst of people like that.

And the super secret contract is probably only secret so Cintra's competition doesn't learn their inner workings.


29 posted on 10/16/2006 10:54:06 AM PDT by j_hig
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To: antisocial

That's the same line of thought that made Austin's roads such a mess during the 90s population growth.


30 posted on 10/16/2006 10:56:54 AM PDT by j_hig
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To: Real Cynic No More; Dead Corpse; Diddle E. Squat; deport; maui_hawaii; Ben Ficklin; zeugma; ...
Dead Corpse:
It's going to be Governor Goodhairs own version of the Big Dig. Texas sized, it'll cost at least a Trillion by the time its all said and done.

Real Cynic No More:
Oh, like the new SH 130 roadway project in the Austin area that's months ahead of schedule and millions of dollars under budget?

The opponents have brain dead arguments against the toll road plan. The "Big Dig" in Massachussetts went over budget precisely because it is funded by federal tax dollars and the contractors had no incentives to keep costs low. The TTC is ultimately funded by tolls people pay to use the facilities. As the owners and builders of the improvements built in the state owned corridors, both Cintra and Zachary have tremendous incentives to keep costs down and build the corridors quickly in order to start getting their money back.

Toll roads are a conservative method of financing roads. Tolls are users fees for using roads. The exise tax on motor fuels was supposed to be a type of user fee, but politicians divert those funds according to the seniority of the politicians in Washington not according to how much each state paid into the highway fund. The system the DemocRATS wanted set up would have been even worse. They wanted to build the Interestate Highway System out of general revenues as a way of redistributing income. As far as I am concerned the federal excise tax on motor fuels should be abolished or it should never be increased letting inflation erode the real value that tax. There is no way to reform budget allocations short of taking the money away from Washington politicians. I am even more against funding roads out of the income tax.

The toll roads I am familiar with in Houston were all built much faster and under budget compared with state and federally funded highway projects of similar capacity. TxDOT has been upgrading I-35 between San Antonio and Hillsboro for over 15 years and they're nowhere near finished rebuilding that highway from 2 lanes to 3 lanes. By the time they're finished with that upgrade in maybe a decade, it will be obsolete. In fact it would have been obsolete if it had been completed in 1990.

31 posted on 10/16/2006 11:06:19 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: ravingnutter
Regarding your link to the mis-info on the so called change in financing:

First, it is a 320 mil LOW INTEREST LOAN. As a percent of the total project, that is a small amount. A loan HAS TO BE REPAID.

Since you and your little blogger are trying to obscure, we have to assume that this is the TIFIA loan that has been thrown up and shot down before. As such, should not Texas be entitled to the same as othere states?

For those that want to know, follow the link below, and scrioll thru the table of contents looking for "TIFIA"

Report to Congress on PPPs

32 posted on 10/16/2006 11:11:38 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Paleo Conservative
Toll roads are a conservative method of financing roads.

And as I said, I'm fine with toll roads. AS LONG AS ALL THE OTHER CRAP I AM CURRENTLY PAYING THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO FUND THESE SAME ROADS GOES AWAY.

No sign of that happening any time soon. Ergo, they are double and triple dipping us.

33 posted on 10/16/2006 11:13:20 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Well, my days of not taking your seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: Paleo Conservative; Real Cynic No More; Dead Corpse; Diddle E. Squat

What I don't like is that Perry is proceeding even though we voted it down in San Antonio. Strayhorn isn't lying when she says 'land grab.' There are people along I-35 who don't want to part with their property.

Perry's statements in this campaign don't ring true to me.

We visited Houston and it's tough to have enough quarters. And rather expensive to navigate the city, especially when the tolls aren't always the same. I can't speak about Austin, but then we don't really like each other, these two cities.


34 posted on 10/16/2006 11:18:07 AM PDT by Froufrou
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To: Froufrou
Once they toll MOPAC, my daily commute will cost me around $8 round trip.

Plus, I'll still be paying annual registration, inspection, gas taxes, ect...

35 posted on 10/16/2006 11:21:02 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Well, my days of not taking your seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: Dead Corpse

In our case, they want to toll the roads our tax dollars have already paid for. It's no secret the anti-toll group here is backing Strayhorn. I most likely will, too.


36 posted on 10/16/2006 11:22:23 AM PDT by Froufrou
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To: Froufrou
In our case, they want to toll the roads our tax dollars have already paid for.

Yeah... they are doing that here as well. Justification? "You can still use the frontage road for free". Yeah... right. If you have seven hours to kill just to make it from one side of the city to the other.

37 posted on 10/16/2006 11:24:52 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Well, my days of not taking your seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: Dead Corpse

Not only that, but the owners of the toll companies are not American, did you know that? And in some cases those frontage roads will be owned and maintained by them, too. It's a bill of goods they're forcing on us.


38 posted on 10/16/2006 11:28:31 AM PDT by Froufrou
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
It can't be true, politicians would never lie to the people.

ALL SCUM!

39 posted on 10/16/2006 11:58:38 AM PDT by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: Froufrou
We visited Houston and it's tough to have enough quarters. And rather expensive to navigate the city, especially when the tolls aren't always the same. I can't speak about Austin, but then we don't really like each other, these two cities.

You can get around Houston without paying tolls using the freeways that were there before the toll roads were built, but it will take you longer, because there they are more congested. I guarantee you that if I wanted to make sure I got to IAH in time to make a flight, I'd take the Hardy toll road rather than I-45 or US-59.

40 posted on 10/16/2006 12:15:55 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Diddle E. Squat

Now, Texans did approve another constitutional amendment, this one in 2001, that created the Texas Mobility Fund, and it actually said the money could go to "state highways, turnpikes, toll roads, toll bridges, and other mobility projects." A total of 543,759 Texans said yes to that one.


Left out?


41 posted on 10/16/2006 12:19:05 PM PDT by wolfcreek (A personal attack is the reaction of an exhausted and/or disturbed mind.)
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To: Froufrou
Not only that, but the owners of the toll companies are not American, did you know that?

So what? I'd rather have comany that is experienced in running and building toll roads in charge rather than a local company that lacks experience or competence. The TTC is intended to be not just a world class project but a world leading project. The engineering firm in charge needs to be world class in this field.

42 posted on 10/16/2006 12:21:16 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Paleo Conservative

We were on a toll road in Houston that went to Hobby. I thought it was 59 but maybe it was Hardy. It was smooth sailing, but expensive. But, maybe a good thing would come of it in that most of the people on the tolls are probably insured, and may even be better drivers.


43 posted on 10/16/2006 12:25:06 PM PDT by Froufrou
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To: Froufrou
In our case, they want to toll the roads our tax dollars have already paid for.

Where do you get the notion that your tax payments give you some sort of "virtual title" to a road? I hate taxes as much as the next person, but understand that they operate as more of a lease payment . . . funny that that is what Cintra will be doing as well, making lease payments to TxDOT.

44 posted on 10/16/2006 12:26:41 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: antisocial

Just how crowded do you want our State to become?


You hit on an issue close to my heart. The Globalist don't care what happens to Texas. The environment, the culture, our resources, our very way of life, BE DAMNED!


45 posted on 10/16/2006 12:29:28 PM PDT by wolfcreek (A personal attack is the reaction of an exhausted and/or disturbed mind.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Not virtual title, but with taxes going to constant maintenance, can you not see the implication of tolls equating to dual taxation?

I have spoken with the group that's opposed to this. They make much better sense than I about it and they have extremely well-documented info. I'll get their site for you if you like.


46 posted on 10/16/2006 12:30:12 PM PDT by Froufrou
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To: Ben Ficklin
A loan HAS TO BE REPAID.

Or defaulted upon as the borrower declares bankruptcy.

47 posted on 10/16/2006 12:31:08 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Ben Ficklin
My blogger? WTH are you talking about? I am an individual citizen with no affiliations with any of these groups. But I can damn sure tell you that the whole thing stinks. Yes, the loan has to be repaid, but again, you blur the reality...it will be repaid with future tolls, so to say that it will not ultimately be paid with tax dollars is downright sneaky and there ain't nothin' I hate worse than a sneak or a liar. Entitled? Sorry, but they are not entitled to hornswaggle me into paying taxes on a road I have already paid for. If these pro-toll road people were honest, they'd be more forthcoming and quit pulling sleight of hand tricks on the details and doing backroom deals. This whole thing reminds me of the AlamoGroan...ummm...I mean...the Alamo Dome deal.
48 posted on 10/16/2006 12:32:31 PM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: j_hig

It will be paid back by Cintra, with the tolls aka our tax dollars. Those same "industry experts" brought us the Alamo Dome too. I haven't trusted anyone in local Govt. since. And give me a break...Cintra has no competitors on this...they've got it locked up due to their connections. I might have given it consideration if they had been more honest, but they've already proven themselves to be sneaks.


49 posted on 10/16/2006 12:38:22 PM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: Dead Corpse

Once they toll MOPAC, my daily commute will cost me around $8 round trip.


My daughter is going to be pissed. She just got transfered and will be using that route. I read in the Sunday paper that Austin's tolls will cost twice that of Houston's.


50 posted on 10/16/2006 12:38:34 PM PDT by wolfcreek (A personal attack is the reaction of an exhausted and/or disturbed mind.)
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