Skip to comments.Would Defeat in Iraq Be So Bad?
Posted on 10/16/2006 9:58:48 AM PDT by World_Events
To me, the relentless mud slide of insurgency and civil war in Iraq is leading to unacceptable strategic disaster for the U.S. There appear to be no viable paths to follow in order to avoid it. Neither "staying the course"--whatever that Bush strategy now means--nor the Democrats' idea of exiting by timetables offers a semblance of success. Both approaches produce only nightmares: general chaos; Iraq's center taken over by terrorists emboldened by victory over America, their pockets bulging with Iraqi oil money; southern Iraq controlled by pro-Iranians or Iran itself; and Iraq's neighbors picking at the nation's carcass until regional war erupts and prompts oil prices to hit $150 a barrel.
But while those fears have a real hold on me, I can't help transporting myself back more than 30 years to that day in Vietnam when I felt certain the dominoes would fall throughout Asia and destroy America's strategic position there and elsewhere. I was wrong about those dominoes, as were almost all foreign-policy experts.
It was April 28, 1975. The last U.S. officials scrambled aboard helicopters, bound for home, heralding defeat as North Vietnamese troops tramped into the South Vietnamese capital. And it was the most ignominious kind of defeat, one that came after a decades-long war, after tens of thousands of Americans and Vietnamese had been killed, after our Presidents had pledged it would never come to that.
We expected China and the Soviet Union would be ascendant, that allies like Japan and South Korea would doubt our resolve and reposition themselves, and that North Vietnam would claim the rest of Indochina. Almost none of that happened.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
Would your losing your job be so bad?
Wouldn't be so bad if we lost it somewhere off planet i guess.
Dear Leslie: YOU are a loser, so losing seems OK to you. Not everyone shares your wussiness.
This is why sane people do not entrust Rats and other leftists with national security or foreign policy.
Another moron pretending to be thoughtful. A chimp in a three-piece suit.
I suppose that technically this is true, but jeez, not so much as one word about Cambodia? It's pretty disgraceful to just pretend that that little incident never really happened.
To gelb the "gobbler",
WOULD A ***DAMN A-BOMB BLOWING YOUR SORRY ASS UP, ALONG WITH THOSE OF YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS AND AN AMERICAN CITY, BE SO BAD?... YOU leftist, POS, dumb-a$$ed, hildebeast butt kissing, bent-one fondling, puke-a$$ed dim!
Heck, has John Kerry even been asked the question: How come you were so wrong about how the Communists treated the people of South Vietnam after they took over? Liberals ignore the consequences of their actions. I guess their attitude is that the "gooks" had it coming?
and then there was the democrat that tried to swim the Mississippi....she swam all the way across, got 4 feet from shore and decided it was too tough....so she swam back.
After Vietnam, the dominoes did not fall. What that tells us about this war
No dominoes fell after Vietnam but several million Southeast Asians fell when they were murdered by communists.
That's a fact that Gelb and the looney left don't want to talk about.
The United States military never loses. Never.
Wimp politicians and an anti-American media may force us into a stalemate, but the US armed forces do not lose. You can hear it in the habitual vocabulary of our officers.
Once again, the US military does NOT lose.
The Jihad was emboldened by our lack of action against Iran in 1979, by our fleeing Lebanon and Somalia after attacks, and by our feckless response to various acts of terrorism over the past few decades. It took 9/11 to wake us up to the Jihad. Leslie Gelb is telling us to go back to sleep.
Staying the course is looking like a lousy idea with each day that passes. I was never crazy about Bush in the first place---but compared to what the Dems were offering for the entre--had no choice (actually I had a choice, I voted libertarian because it doesn't matter a rat's behind in NY). This neo-con world view is definitely not working. I am not a pacifist, I really don't care what the French think or feel, they should really re-locate the UN to Vanuatu--actually Papua New Guinea or the Falklands sounds even better.....but are American interests being served in the long term? This is not an episode of WWF or the silly game they had when I was a kid Rock Em Sock Em Robots. Too many of our kids are really getting killed for no purpose--I hate to say that because of the sacrifice made by these young guys and gals. My problem is not with the military. In fact, the military has been very critical from the beginning of the way the war has been handled. Their hands are tied, they can only do what the Commander in chief and his advisers want. We need to salvage whatever we can and get out ASAP of Iraq. Maybe we can retreat to Kurdistan--they're the only folks that seem to want us around. Face it, we are in there for oil. I usually would wince when I hear this from the lefties screaming about Halliburton and the Bushies oil ties. They would scream about that no matter what because they are anti-capitalist to begin with. It really doesn't matter what the facts are. Oil is getting scarcer especially with China and India becoming more industrialized...so we go to war to secure an oil source? The Republican party needs to dump the neo-cons!
Defeat in Iraq is not an option.
Not just bad, but bad beyond our worst nightmares. If the terrorists were able to plan an execute 9/11 with few hundred thousands dollars and from their caves in Afghanistan, imagine what they can do if we leave Iraq and let them control such an important country that is strategically located in the heart of the Middle East and has huge resources of oil.
Another writer who doesn't understand the Cold War. Viet Nam was one battle we lost. But the war was fought on many fronts, on every continent. Losing Viet Nam emboldened the enemy, but Reagan happened. We pushed back, in the Americas, in Africa, in Central Asia, in Europe itself.
So we eventually did win, but no thanks to the folks who brought us defeat in Viet Nam. The folks who stood against us in Viet Nam also stood against us in every other conflict, Salvador, Nicaragua, Angola, the missiles in Europe, on and on. We won in spite of them. And they are precisely the same folks who handed us defeat in Somalia, who claimed we couldn't win in Afghanistan (until after we won) and who opposed us every step of the way in Iraq. If we are defeated in Iraq, it does not mean, automatically, ultimate defeat. But if down the road we manage to achieve victory against muslim terrorism, it will be in spite of the DNC.
It will be in spite of the very people who will bring us to defeat in Iraq.
History repeats itself because the nature of the DNC has not changed in essence since the Cold War, it has only become more concentrated and toxic.
The writer wants us to believe that defeat is not that bad, because after Viet Nam we ultimately won. But we ultimately won by overcoming the defeatists among us. Had we overcome them sooner, 3 million indochinese would not be dead, their bones standing in piles all over southeast asia.
Probably about the same as abandoning the South Vietnamese.
are you French? Because you sure ARE a SURRENDER MONKEY!
Because world peace and prosperity must be achieved before Sports Center comes on.
"The Republican party needs to dump the neo-cons!"
Yes, so Nancy Pelosi can be your speaker....Hillary can be your President....and you can continue to get butt buggered...
Eu is already a target.
Pulling out of Vietnam the way we did taught our enemys how to defeat us. and they are trying to use the SAME techniques today.
Thanks to fools like this helping the enemy, though Kerry is probably the king of traitors.
I only hope America can hold it's resolve, I believe it will.
"I can't help transporting myself back more than 30 years to that day in Vietnam..."
Had he been with the MIDWAY battle group that day, he would have seen people literally dying in front him for their freedom. Maybe he would have chosen another career besides mealy-mouthed hack.
Did you ever hear these primates offering exit strategies or defeatist comments in Kosovo or Haiti. There are still troops in Kosovo and Haiti has reverted to a hell hole that is worse than Baghdad. Ask him about those two.
Send this article to Leslie. You might want to read it too, World_Events. :) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1720292/posts
I was wrong about those dominoes, as were almost all foreign-policy experts.
I feel America getting screwed either way Democrats or neo-cons.
If you want on the list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...
And the Afghanis, who were the next target of communist aggression.
I call him 'gal' for a reason. He is nothing but a panty-waist globalist.
Tell that to the two million that perished in the Cambodian Killing Fields.
If you're the media....YES.
There's plenty of tough talk on this thread. We don't need tough talk. We need ideas on how to win. "Stay the course" ain't working. If we can't come up with something better than that, eventually the cut-and-run crowd is going to get their way.
Many Americans either don't see the downside in leaving Iraq in the state it's in now, or they don't care about the consequences. They'd be happy to leave tomorrow, and to hell with the results. The left's plan of retreat may be dumb, but it's a plan. Without new strategies on how to win, we're eventually going to lose moderate and Republican support for the war entirely.
So, defeat is certainly an option, because left wants it, and the center and right are losing their will to fight. Rallying them will frankly require better leadership and better military thinking that what we've gotten so far.
Staying the course in Iraq is the only strategy for victory, all other strategies are cut and run and hence defeat, it is as simple as that.
Yes and they just keep confirming it. Democrats cannot be trusted with our security..EVER.
The terms neo con is only used by liberals, third party voters and Buchananites, all those are very bad with liberals being the worst, which category do you fit in?
What you said.