Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Germany jails homeschoolers
Catholic Standard Times ^ | October 2006 | Susan Brinkmann

Posted on 10/20/2006 7:08:55 AM PDT by NYer

Germany jails homeschoolers


FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHT TO HOMESCHOOL — Mike Farris talks with a family who have already taken their plea to the German Supreme Court. Although the family lost at that level, they are still homeschooling.

By Susan Brinkmann
CS&T Correspondent



On Thursday, Sept. 7, in Paderborn, Germany, a female plainclothes police officer rang the doorbell at the home of Katharina Plett. When Plett opened the door, other police officers who were hiding rushed into her home.

Plett was placed under arrest. The officers followed her into the bedroom where she was permitted to change her clothes. Before being taken to nearby Gelsenkirchen prison, she was permitted to contact her husband, who had fled the country the day before with their 12 children.

If you suspect Plett is guilty of a very serious crime, guess again. She was arrested and thrown in prison for homeschooling her children.

Homeschooling, along with any educational institution other than state-run schools, was outlawed by Adolf Hitler in 1938. But a recent decline, both academically and morally, in the country’s public school system has more and more German parents looking for better ways to educate their children.

“The German people want options,” said Christopher J. Klicka, senior counsel at the Virgina-based Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) which consults with homeschooling organizations in Germany and other nations. “They want to get out of the public school system so they’re testing the limits, and the German government is slamming their fingers as soon as they try.”

The situation became even more grave on Sept. 27, when the European Court of Human Rights delivered a stunning defeat to another German couple, Fritz and Marianna Konrad, who had argued for the right to homeschool their two children.

The Konrads contended that Germany’s compulsory school attendance laws were a violation of their human rights.

The human rights court ruled: “Parents may not refuse the right to education of a child on the basis of their convictions,” adding that the right to education “by its very nature calls for regulation by the state.”

Klicka said his association was “very disappointed” by the ruling. “When you look at the language of the European Union (EU) human rights constitution — which is a higher law over all the 25 countries of the European Union — they have a reference to a parent’s right to educate their children. When you look at wording of the constitution, it looks pretty good.

“But when I looked at the opinion of this Court, and how they interpreted the German situation, I was incredulous at how they took the plain language of the human rights constitution and just twisted it up to come up with this ruling.”

What makes the decision so menacing is that it opens the door to other European nations that may wish to curtail homeschooling in their countries.

“In Europe, homeschooling is legal in some fashion everywhere but Germany,” Klicka said. “It might be regulated or restricted a little, such as in France, where they subject homeschoolers to curriculum review, and the Czech Republic, where you can homeschool until the fifth grade.

“This ruling doesn’t change any of the [laws of] other nations, it just gives them the okay that if they wanted to crack down legislatively — outlaw or prohibit homeschooling — they can do that.”

Since the E.U. human rights court ruling, German families that want to homeschool can forget trying to win the right to do so through the court system.
“For Germany, it’s curtains,” Klicka said.

Unfortunately for German parents, the climate in public school education shows no signs of improving. Graphic sex education, the promotion of ideologies that undermine Biblical morality, and poor academic performance in public schools continues to fuel the movement to challenge the government’s 68 year old stranglehold on education.

Thanks to the internet, German families are discovering that the same problems in U.S. public schools sparked the success of a homeschooling movement whose ranks have swollen to two million children, many of whom consistently outperform their public school peers.

“Three main issues have sparked the movement toward homeschooling in Germany,” Klicka said. “First, the knowledge of homeschooling has increased because of the internet; second, moral issues such as graphic sex education and homosexuality; and third, academic studies are showing that things are not going so well in German public schools.”

An Italian study completed five years ago measured children’s academic performance in 20 European countries. Germany was very close to the bottom of the list.

“That was a very embarrassing study for Germany,” Klicka said. “All of a sudden, people were doubting the public school system and wondering if their kids were getting a good education. Although we have many of the same problems with our public schools, Americans have the option to choose to homeschool.”

German couples are not so lucky, and many of them have paid a high price in the form of fines or imprisonment for trying to change the laws.

For instance, in 2004, Sigrid and Michael Bauer tried to fight compulsory school attendance for their five children because public education was undermining their Christian beliefs. The state ultimately ruled that parents must accept the teaching methods and content of public school education, even if they contradict a family’s religious convictions. The law says that parents who “continually or obstinately prevent their children from fulfilling the compulsory school attendance” be slapped with stiff fines or prison terms up to six months.

“The only options left for Germans is to seek asylum in America or other countries,” Klicka said. He was one of seven members of the board of a German homeschooling association, called School Instruction at Home, that included at least 200 families. Of the seven original members, only one still lives in Germany.

“The other option is to put pressure on the government,” Klicka said. “If there’s enough international pressure and media attention, the Germans could change their legislation to allow homeschooling. All countries are somewhat sensitive to the US perspective.”

He said members of his association, which supports and has helped to found homeschooling organizations in 28 countries, have made a difference by contacting embassies.

“We’ve had some success with stopping bad bills in the Czech Republic and Ireland, and we passed a good bill in South Africa,” he said. “And it was purely through international pressure.”


Readers may respectfully protest the German government’s actions by writing to the German ambassador at the following address:
Wolfgang Ischinger, Ambassador; German Embassy, 4845 Reservoir Road NW;
Washington, D.C., 20007-1998, and by calling (202) 298-4000 or visiting on the Web: www.globescope.biz/germany/reg/index.cfm.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany
KEYWORDS: catholic; education; germany; homeschool; homeschooling; moralabsolutes
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-83 next last

1 posted on 10/20/2006 7:08:56 AM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Catholic Ping List
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


2 posted on 10/20/2006 7:10:04 AM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Sounds like teachers' unions in Germany are even stronger than ours are here.


3 posted on 10/20/2006 7:11:42 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("An empty limousine pulled up and Hillary Clinton got out")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

seek asylum in America"

Good reason why we need to keep homeschool friendly Presidents and AGs so that they have at least a bit of control over the INS definitions of asylum for religious persecution


4 posted on 10/20/2006 7:12:14 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gay State Conservative

That's just what I thought. They'd love to have forced public education.


5 posted on 10/20/2006 7:13:34 AM PDT by mainepatsfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Plett was placed under arrest. The officers followed her into the bedroom where she was permitted to change her clothes. Before being taken to nearby Gelsenkirchen prison, she was permitted to contact her husband, who had fled the country the day before with their 12 children. "

Good grief, the "offenders" were not even in the country. So you would think that the state at some point would concede that if they were not within their jurisdiction, then the state interest would start to wane?


6 posted on 10/20/2006 7:16:17 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

A glimpse of what awaits us here in America.

7 posted on 10/20/2006 7:17:28 AM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
The law says that parents who “continually or obstinately prevent their children from fulfilling the compulsory school attendance” be slapped with stiff fines or prison terms up to six months.

************

I wonder if they've considered the fact that this will simply leave them with less Christian families? Much of Europe seems concerned with Muslim influence, yet this flies in the face of those concerns.

8 posted on 10/20/2006 7:17:32 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
It makes sense that NAZI's can't allow for parents to teach their children. Children must be indoctronated according to the guidelines established by the state. It is hard to impliment national socialism without proper indoctronation.
9 posted on 10/20/2006 7:18:17 AM PDT by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ConservativeDude

I would think that, at least in the States, the horse has already left the barn, so to say. It appears that, in Germany, the government has no intention of letting that happen.


10 posted on 10/20/2006 7:19:14 AM PDT by Fudd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Vee have vays to indoctrinate your children.


11 posted on 10/20/2006 7:19:50 AM PDT by east1234 (It's the borders stupid. It's also WWIV.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: trisham
Much of Europe seems concerned with Muslim influence, yet this flies in the face of those concerns.

But socialists tend to fear Christian influence even more. And socialists make up a good portion of Europe.

12 posted on 10/20/2006 7:20:10 AM PDT by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Please, Let them come here and Homeschool!
Of course they waould have to learn Spanish - English is opitonal.
13 posted on 10/20/2006 7:21:03 AM PDT by GrandEagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Remember this,elections are 17 days away and about half your neighbors are going to the polls to cast a vote for politicians who would gladly pass laws empowering goverment here in the USA to pull the same kind of violation of civil rights that was done in Paderborn, Germany.Vote GOP it's the only chance you've got to hold onto those rights !!!


14 posted on 10/20/2006 7:22:01 AM PDT by Obie Wan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Always Right
But socialists tend to fear Christian influence even more. And socialists make up a good portion of Europe.

*************

I'm sure that's part of it, but they will rue the day they went down this road.

15 posted on 10/20/2006 7:23:41 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Gay State Conservative

It's a matter of priorities. The German law puts the right of the children to be protected from childwork, homeschooling etc. higher then the right of the parents to decide what special kind of education their children might get.

Looking at the high number of muslim and other immigrants I can only hope we keep this law - otherwise we loose young muslims to the imam schools.


16 posted on 10/20/2006 7:25:25 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

This is what Hillary and the liberals as a group want here.


17 posted on 10/20/2006 7:31:27 AM PDT by Seņor Zorro ("The ability to speak does not make you intelligent"--Qui-Gon Jinn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Homeschooling, along with any educational institution other than state-run schools, was outlawed by Adolf Hitler in 1938.

WTF?

The human rights court ruled: “Parents may not refuse the right to education of a child on the basis of their convictions,” adding that the right to education “by its very nature calls for regulation by the state.”

The ACLU would love it there.

18 posted on 10/20/2006 7:31:37 AM PDT by Cymbaline (I repeat myself when under stress I repeat myself when under stress I repeat myself when under stres)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rummenigge
Most european muslims already attend private religious schools where they are indoctrinated my imams.
Apparently these Christian homeschooling parents need to create their own private religious schools, after which the Eurabian governments would bend to their every whim as they do to the muslims.
19 posted on 10/20/2006 7:32:48 AM PDT by Sisku Hanne (*Support DIANA IREY for US Congress!* Send "Cut-n-Run" Murtha packing: HIT THE ROAD, JACK!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Fudd

Having lived in Germany for a dozen years...I can offer some insight.

Teachers consider themselves highly educated and thus certified to do what they do. They see no reason for an untrained or non-certified teacher to exist. They use the same mentality for business executives....they all have master degrees or higher. You can't find a major business in Germany with more than 300 workers that has a company owner or CEO without the business degree. The banks work to limit loans to storng growth companies with such leadership. It all goes full circle....you have to be educated...to be in charge.

Add to this...schools and school funding all are directly tied to the local population. If you have 30,000 people in the local town...then your educational czar gets a certain amount of money and runs the mass system (lower school, mid-school, and college-bound-high-school). If you took 100 kids out of the system in that community...you'd mess up the statistics here and create a tidal wave of issues.

And finally...getting a degree in Germany is a highly "class" affair. Only the smart guys get a degree...don't you know? I was told this several years ago by a German. The education sector severaly limits the kid's progress in life. If you are a person prone to arguments...at age 10...forget about college. The teachers will ensure your road to higher education is screwed up. To make it to the college direction...you MUST have artist talents (no joke). If you can't paint or draw...you've got a major strike against you and its doubtful you can overcome that problem. Its the same way with organizing your book pack each morning. For a 11-year old German kid...each day is a totally different group of classes...just like in a US college system. You must demonstrat your ability to organize your books and bring the right ones...otherwise...you start having points deducted from your grades...which you can't make up.

All in all....the German system is great to get you on the fast track for learning. A 14-year old German kid is as smart as a 17-year old Armerican kid...this I can vouch. But the number of kids left behind in the German system...would shock you. And the amount of tudor service you have to hire...to keep your kid on the smart track...will run around $1500 a year if you take this serious....and we are talking about a 13-year old kid requiring a tudor just to pass with decent grades.


20 posted on 10/20/2006 7:32:58 AM PDT by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: pepsionice
... the amount of tudor service you have to hire...to keep your kid on the smart track...will run around $1500 a year if you take this serious....and we are talking about a 13-year old kid requiring a tudor just to pass with decent grades

Wouldn't a windsor be less expensive than a tudor? :)

21 posted on 10/20/2006 7:39:12 AM PDT by Fudd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Fudd

Tudor? I hardly know 'er!


22 posted on 10/20/2006 7:44:47 AM PDT by mallardx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Fudd

I had that dang spell-check on...for British English. It'll fail you everytime.


23 posted on 10/20/2006 7:45:41 AM PDT by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: pepsionice

They're all just bricks in the wall. Apparently books like Farenheit 451 are read longingly in some sectors.


24 posted on 10/20/2006 8:00:48 AM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Sisku Hanne

exactly...

weakening the anti-homeschooling legislation would be bending to islam.

I hope our weak governments remain firm at least in this point.


25 posted on 10/20/2006 8:02:14 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Rummenigge; BlackElk
Looking at the high number of muslim and other immigrants I can only hope we keep this law - otherwise we loose young muslims to the imam schools.

That means you believe that the state, not the parents are primarily responsible for the formation of children?! If you are preventing the best parents from educating their children properly because you fear the imams, you have already given up.

I am a home-schooling father of two, and would flee the country or face jail rather than let my children be minions of "compulsory" state education. Germany will lose its best people, but the immigrants will stay and because they believe in something, and the lefties believe in nothing, these immigrants will still believe in the instruction given them by the imams.
26 posted on 10/20/2006 8:04:00 AM PDT by sittnick (There is no salvation in politics.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: pepsionice

I can draw jack sh&/ and I am a german PhD in chemistry. A bad mark in drawing and sports could only theoretically spoil your 'carreer'. In real life you get your D marks (necessary to pass to the next class) if you don't mop up.

Certainly to go to higher school your math and german better be good then.


27 posted on 10/20/2006 8:06:40 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: NYer
My wife works with a number of home schooled children every day. She said a number of them are very bright, sociable and very well behaved children. However...there are a number of them that cannot do the even the simplest math problems for their age and they have some serious social issues.

It seems when home schooling works, at least in this state, it works very well. But when it doesn't, the child seems really "left behind". I am not sure if there are standards set as to what the child must know and be tested on, but it doesn't seem to exist here.
28 posted on 10/20/2006 8:21:09 AM PDT by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: trashcanbred; BlackElk
However...there are a number of them that cannot do the even the simplest math problems for their age and they have some serious social issues.

Such children exist in greater numbers in the public schools. In fact, the public school environment can exasperbate these problems. What do you mean about "social issues"? If it is rude or aggressive behavior, that would at least mean that the rest of the children aren't being influenced by it. If it means being considered a bit weird, well there are those in the public schools as well. Moreover, I would rather have a child with "social issues", if that means non-conformity with modern anti-culture, than for him to be trained into docile acceptance of all sorts of peer pressure.
29 posted on 10/20/2006 8:28:34 AM PDT by sittnick (There is no salvation in politics.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Gay State Conservative

Just remember after the Nazis fell, no judges were replaced, except very few.


30 posted on 10/20/2006 8:40:06 AM PDT by observer5 (It's not a War on Terror - it's a WAR ON STUPIDITY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Gay State Conservative

Actually, it's kind of interesting because we are homeschooling my youngest; when my wife and I first looked into homeschool a few years ago the overall mood was somewhat hostile to the idea. Now the feeling seems to be that the schools are happy to outsource the work.

They still get my tax money and there is one less child using the county's resources in the system. That would probably change if I were to get a tax-cut or voucher.


31 posted on 10/20/2006 8:46:20 AM PDT by incredulous joe ("Alan Keyes is my homeboy!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Rummenigge

How 'bout Germany stops importing Muslims rather than limiting the rights of German parents to rear their children as they see fit?


32 posted on 10/20/2006 9:21:34 AM PDT by LadyNavyVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: sittnick
Such children exist in greater numbers in the public schools. In fact, the public school environment can exasperbate these problems.

Maybe in the inner cities schools have such issues but around where I live the public schools are not "bad" at all. It would be inconceivable for a child to have those deficiencies in knowledge in the public schools around my area.

What do you mean about "social issues"? If it is rude or aggressive behavior, that would at least mean that the rest of the children aren't being influenced by it.

Without going into great detail, because it probably would not be appropriate for me to do so, "some" of the home schooled children have serious issues. I mean... something along the line of a "complete inability" to deal with other children (who also happen to be home schooled). There is nothing wrong with simply being "weird" (hey I was guilty as that as a child.

If it means being considered a bit weird, well there are those in the public schools as well. Moreover, I would rather have a child with "social issues", if that means non-conformity with modern anti-culture, than for him to be trained into docile acceptance of all sorts of peer pressure.

Why do you have a chip on your shoulder?? As I said in my last post many of the homeschoolers my wife deals with are very smart, well behaved and are great children. My point was that the "few" that seem left behind, well... they are really really REALLY left behind.

I don't have anything against home schooling at all. If anything it seems to produce some very smart children. I simply think there are "some" parents that do a very bad job of it and according to the parent, it is on purpose. Things like "math isn't important" type of attitudes. That kind of thing where they come right out and say that some of the basic tenets of any education just aren't deemed important enough to teach.

33 posted on 10/20/2006 9:27:52 AM PDT by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: trisham
You can bet that Muslims will never be arrested for teaching their own children. Only Christians. The Nazi's like the Sand-Nazis, they ultimately see eye to eye.
34 posted on 10/20/2006 9:30:56 AM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NYer; DaveLoneRanger


35 posted on 10/20/2006 9:35:24 AM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Amnesty_From_Government.htm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer; Abram; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allosaurs_r_us; Americanwolf; ...
Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
36 posted on 10/20/2006 9:39:02 AM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Amnesty_From_Government.htm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Later pingout.


37 posted on 10/20/2006 9:52:51 AM PDT by little jeremiah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

I see you got this one first!

If people think this couldn't happen here, they're asleep. Fortunately there are many homeschoolers and they will keep informed about news.


38 posted on 10/20/2006 9:56:14 AM PDT by little jeremiah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: trashcanbred
I mean... something along the line of a "complete inability" to deal with other children (who also happen to be home schooled). There is nothing wrong with simply being "weird" (hey I was guilty as that as a child.

Those types come along in public schools as well. I attended the 1970's version of a "good" public school, and those types were there.

Why do you have a chip on your shoulder?? . . . My point was that the "few" that seem left behind, well... they are really really REALLY left behind.

I do have a bit of a chip on my shoulder, because the standard for home schoolers is set so much higher than it is for the government school system. My fear is that this handful of non-social kids will be used as an excuse to monitor and regulate all.

I simply think there are "some" parents that do a very bad job of it and according to the parent, it is on purpose. Things like "math isn't important" type of attitudes. That kind of thing where they come right out and say that some of the basic tenets of any education just aren't deemed important enough to teach.

I do concede that such parents may exist (in some cases it might be because the child is going to be, literally, a truck driver like daddy, and that is not the worst thing in the world). I am certainly willing to risk having a parent responsible for a child's upbringing fail in individual areas (e.g. math) than risk the wholesale failure of entire demographic groups (inner city kids, social engineering classes, "new" math, whole language and look-say). A lot of kids got really really really left behind, as whole language and new math taught them not only to be disinterested in the subjects, but to hate them.

I do place the blame as much on modern parents as on modern teachers. The parents expect the schools to do everything for them.

You are right that homeschooling is not utopia, and it is not for everybody. I do not want the government deciding who it is and is not for.
39 posted on 10/20/2006 10:00:08 AM PDT by sittnick (There is no salvation in politics.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Rummenigge

Isn't there also the option for religious schooling?

The policy in Germany, (quite) a bit more stringent than in France, seems to be that children must be institutionalized for schooling.

There are reasons for that which are not necessarily bad, having to do with socialization and exposure to a wide range of things; also standardization of curriculum and knowledge learned. In France, people have the option to teach their children (few take it), but what they teach is subject to curricular review. Basically, the national curriculum must be taught, because those are the basics to function in a social society. He who cannot read, write or compute cannot function in a modern state and will be a laisser-pour-compte burden on the welfare state. Ergo, every child must be educated to the basic standards. If parents want to do this, and add their own particular flavor of additional learning, it is acceptable in France.
Few do, because it is a royal pain in the ass, and the public school system is good and comprehensive.

But of course, in France, there are those who are deeply wedded to their religion (normally Catholicism), and who wish their children to be educated in an explicitly religious environment. Thus the religious schools, mostly Catholic. Now, they too must teach to the national curriculum (for the same reasons: these children must be competitive), but they also have prayers, devotionals and other religious learning. This is the choice of the parents, and in fact the teachers in religious schools in France are also paid out of the state budget (as is maintenance on most of the big Catholic cathedrals which are tourist centers - France is a secular state, but this does not mean that religious institutions are unregistered and unsupported. The Catholics have not the resources to keep the roofs on and the glass polished in Notre Dame and Chartres and Avignon and all of the other cathedrals. These are national treasures which the world flocks to see. It would be foolish for the state to not support this maintenance.)

Anyway, in Germany are there the options of religious schools, Catholic in the South; Lutheran in the North?

If so, why aren't these parents sending their children there, to avoid state system?


40 posted on 10/20/2006 10:01:58 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (The Crown is amused.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Rummenigge
I am missing your logic. How would this be bending to islam? You said the legislation will prevent muslims from sending kids to imams. But it does not. It is not private school legislation, it is homeschool legislation. To my knowledge, muslims do not homeschool in any great numbers. This legislation does not effect them. The only legislation that would effect muslims that which would prevent them from teaching violence and jihad, and that will never happen. You cannot possible think this is acceptable to arrest a mother for the crime of educating her children??!

Parents have a right to freely choose their own educational options for their children, whether the parents are muslim or Christian or anything else.
In the United States we usually have the homeschool parents meeting basic curricular guidelines so there are some standards which allow home-schooled children to successfully meet standardized achievement tests and college entrance requirements.
Speaking as a former public school teacher who also worked with home-schooled children, the home-schooled children I know are, without exception, more articulate, polite, intelligent, and self-assured than their public school counterparts.

41 posted on 10/20/2006 10:04:06 AM PDT by Sisku Hanne (*Support DIANA IREY for US Congress!* Send "Cut-n-Run" Murtha packing: HIT THE ROAD, JACK!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Cymbaline

This is an excerpt from the UN Charter on the Rights of the Child.

Clintoon would have signed it if the Congress had ratified it.

Thankfully, there were enough conservatives in the Senate to prevent the 66/100 supermajority required. However, there were more than 50 senators voting FOR it.

Among other goodies in the UN Charter on the Rights of the Child is the right to "free association" and "free access to information."

Let your mind conjure the most looney left definitions of these concepts and that's what they mean to the UN drafters of this document, and to the pie-eyed American senators who would ratify it.

DON'T LET THE DONKEYS GET CONTROL, OR THIS UN CHARTER WILL BECOME A TREATY THAT SUPERCEDES THE US CONSTITUTION!!!!

.

42 posted on 10/20/2006 10:21:03 AM PDT by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Plett was placed under arrest. The officers followed her into the bedroom where she was permitted to change her clothes. Before being taken to nearby Gelsenkirchen prison, she was permitted to contact her husband, who had fled the country the day before with their 12 children.

One message here is that the Germans of all people have more civilized cops than we do. No 2:00AM forced entry, no black terrorist garb, no submachineguns, and they even hit the right house on the first try!

43 posted on 10/20/2006 11:01:01 AM PDT by CGTRWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sittnick
My fear is that this handful of non-social kids will be used as an excuse to monitor and regulate all.

I took my wife out to lunch and ironically she started to tell me about a parent she deals with that is homeschooling her child. She told me the parent has been keeping every single piece of work that the child has done since 8th grade so that when her child goes to college, she will be ready to prove that the child has done the work. She said virtually all the parents she deals with are VERY serious about their children's education.

I do concede that such parents may exist (in some cases it might be because the child is going to be, literally, a truck driver like daddy, and that is not the worst thing in the world).

You know... I must apologize which is something I rarely do on this forum but it has been known to happen. When I made my earlier statement it wasn't to "bad mouth" home schooling at all. I "felt" I needed to point out that when children get left behind in home schooling it can be pretty bad. The reason I "felt" I had to say it was because... all I ever hear every night from my wife was her complaints about two home schooled children she deals with. However... she fails to talk much about the others... which she told me today that they are wonderful kids. It seems... when one hears so much of the bad news... one never gets the good news.

Now you noticed I put the word "felt" in the last paragraph in quotations to point out that I was "feeling" instead if "thinking". I am currently kicking myself in the head for such a stupid mistake. I am very sorry for that as well.

44 posted on 10/20/2006 11:55:30 AM PDT by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: trashcanbred; sittnick; TontoKowalski
Last night, I watched Newt Gingrich on C-SPAN addressing a remarkably respectful and large crowd at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. Among his points: A mere 21% of those who enter freshman year (at whatever age) in the public high schools of the people's demonratic republic of Detroit graduate on time. One JHU student from Baltimore public school system complained that somehow No Child Left Behind was responsible for him having to endure four separate chemistry teachers over credentialing questions, that there was no money for toilet paper in the johns, that there were no doors on the stalls due to rapes and drug-dealing, etc. Mr. Newt replied that it was not a Republican Maryland state legislature that defined the credentials or a Republican Baltimore school board that ran its system nor a Republican superintendent, that if Baltimore stripped its school administration down to Catholic school proportions, the savings would provide plenty of money for toilet paper and hallway police officers to police the blackboard jungle and prevent drug dealing and rape and that drug testing would also be possible and that drug-teting works in our military and would work in Baltimore public high schools. The JHU students erupted in wild applause.

Certainly some, indeed very many of the student victims of gummint skeweling cannot do even the simplet math problems for their age and they have, ummmm, some verrrrry substantial serious social issues seldom found among homeschoolers. I, for one, propose that we recognize that by abolishing gummint skewels and the tax-financing that they enjoy so that their often incompetent and/or malevolent teachers and administrators can live like kings and queens at our expense regardless of their results. Note, in case you or your spouse or your kid is a gummint skewel teacher that I said often and not always.

Homeschooling is usually best. If not possible, the parents need to establish their own schools. Never seek or accept one nickel in government subsidy or the strings will strangle your kids.

As the wonderful homeschooling FReeper Tontokowalski once posted, his homeschooled chldren are easily "socialized" in the public school way by him taking them to the bathroom at home and beating them up for their lunch money every day.

45 posted on 10/20/2006 11:55:50 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: trashcanbred; sittnick
There would be fewer chips on homeschooling parents' shoulders if public schools were not supported by tax dollars, if the National Education Association were not the red propaganda organization that it is, if atheism and agnosticism and political correctness were not the creeds of the gummint skewels. I live in a town so rural that it has fewer than 500 residents. That is no protection from the evils endemic to public schools. There is simply no sense living one's life in constant warfare with public or even parochial school authorities. I have far better uses of my time than squabbling with left-wing school boards or administrators. I have no obligation to expose my kids so I can defend yours.

You may prefer public schools and that is your business. I don't and that is mine. You should not have to fund my ideas. I should not have to fund yours. When my kids have kids, they can decide for their children. The SCOTUS, as long ago as 1927, in Pierce vs. Society of Sisters, decided that parents are constitutionally entitled to make educational decisions for their minor children within reasonable boundaries. More recently, SCOTUS decided in a case involving the Amish, that they could, as a matter of religious freedom ignore state mandatory schooling laws to the extent that they purported to govern Amish kids over 12 years old.

46 posted on 10/20/2006 12:09:30 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Vicomte13; sittnick
If religious schools genuflect to government standards, it will not much matter that they pray and have holy pictures in classrooms if the state dictates that they be taught where they may get their abortions, how thoroughly acceptable homosexuality and other perversions truly are alleged to be, how socialistic and politically correct all civilized and sensible citizens really are and how to perform "fisting" as taught at PS 666.

In the USA, there are many diocesan school systems in which diocesan superintendents (collectively known as Sister Krupskaya Pantsuit) are now expecting the teachers to be homogenized into teacher "certification" (by gummint and NEA "standards") so that they understand their unholy mission to corrupt the kids.

Why am I as a conservative, much less as a Catholic, to be concerned about whether the "welfare state" is burdened by actual Catholic education for my kids, whether homeschooling or parent-controlled actually Catholic schools???? The welfare state and the public school system ought both to be eliminated according to the standards of a Ludwig von Mises or Friedrich von Hayek or other free marketeer theoreticians and scholars never taught in PS 666.

My eldest daughter had very high ACT scores and was solicited by Ivy League University of Pennsylvania but prefers to be a nurse. My second is a semi-finalist for a National Merit scholarship and has never set foot in a public school except to watch sporting events but is credibly considering Yale, Harvard and Johns Hopkins as a science major. She can go to such schools because her faith is knowledgeable and secure. They won't shake her. My third daughter is studying Saxon Math and Latin and twelve novels this year in English lit class and theology and a lot more at twelve years of age and plays competitive team sports like volleyball, softball and basketball at a parent created and run non-diocesan school that is quite Catholic in orientation.

Better that Notre Dame Cathedral and Chartres cathedral and anything left at Avignon and every other cathedral fall to the ground in ruins than that a single child go to hell because of evil excuses for schooling and the moral ignorance induced thereby.

47 posted on 10/20/2006 12:31:17 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: NYer
It is a freaking Nazi law still on their books!

It is a no brainer that this law must go. Nazi legacies live on in the most bizarre way and they always target Christian and Jewish people of faith.

48 posted on 10/20/2006 1:46:19 PM PDT by Maeve
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rummenigge
The German law puts the right of the children to be protected from childwork, homeschooling etc.

Child "slavery" laws I understand (along with physical abuse, etc.), but why do children need to be protected from homeschooling? Are not parents the first and most important teachers of their own children?

Looking at the high number of muslim and other immigrants I can only hope we keep this law - otherwise we loose young muslims to the imam schools.

If a particular class of immigrant poses a threat to your country and what should be the freedoms of it's citizens (though these "freedoms" appear to currently be very deficient), why do you and your country permit them to immigrate to begin with?

49 posted on 10/20/2006 2:34:42 PM PDT by TotusTuus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: BlackElk

What exactly is "Saxon Math";)


50 posted on 10/20/2006 2:59:43 PM PDT by TotusTuus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-83 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson