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Top Officers' Raise Hits Nerve
Military.com ^ | October 20, 2006 | Tom Philpott

Posted on 10/26/2006 12:14:23 PM PDT by Tulsa Ramjet

The 2.2 across-the-board military pay raise in January is a joke. So is the 8.7 percent raise set for 125 generals and admirals. How about reversing it?

Officers do not need the bigger raise. It’s the enlisted ranks who have people on food stamps and receiving assistance from the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) program. With the price of gas and everything else higher, a 2.2 pay raise is a slap in the face.

It’s also a travesty what else our politicians did to the 2007 defense authorization bill. They basically screwed disabled retirees rated “IU,” or unemployable, by refusing to make them eligible immediately for “concurrent receipt” payments [of both full retired pay and their VA compensation].

Maybe America needs to evaluate what these politicians have as perks, benefits and pay so more of that money goes to the people actually fighting and dying for their mistakes.

(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: military; officer; pay
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this is an interesting turn of events. I didn't know that admirals and generals were on foodstamps too.
1 posted on 10/26/2006 12:14:24 PM PDT by Tulsa Ramjet
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To: Tulsa Ramjet

Where where the Republicans on this?


2 posted on 10/26/2006 12:16:16 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Tulsa Ramjet
Actually no - for many years now NCO's have been getting much larger raises than officers - to the point now (at least in SF) the team commander is one of the worst paid on the team...
3 posted on 10/26/2006 12:19:30 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Tulsa Ramjet
Been hearing this every year since the dawn of professional militaries.

Lots of writing and bitching as the fat cats holding the purse strings vote themselves ever-higher salaries but only throw crumbs to those who actually work for a living.

I dare anybody, and I mean anybody, to do something about it besides write a "strongly-worded" letter to their local Lord in the Imperial Senate.

4 posted on 10/26/2006 12:19:52 PM PDT by liberty_lvr (Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.)
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To: Tulsa Ramjet

What the hell?


5 posted on 10/26/2006 12:21:12 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Nachum

It is an editorial, not a news story.


6 posted on 10/26/2006 12:23:05 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (EeevilCon, Snowflake, Conservative Fundamentalist Gun Owning Bush Bot Dittohead reporting for duty!)
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To: liberty_lvr
dare anybody, and I mean anybody, to do something about it besides write a "strongly-worded" letter to their local Lord in the Imperial Senate.

Curious. What are YOU doing about it?

7 posted on 10/26/2006 12:24:00 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (EeevilCon, Snowflake, Conservative Fundamentalist Gun Owning Bush Bot Dittohead reporting for duty!)
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To: Tulsa Ramjet
It’s the enlisted ranks who have people on food stamps and receiving assistance from the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) program.

One might make an argument that this is precisely why they do not need as big of raise. [donning asbestos underwear now]

8 posted on 10/26/2006 12:26:04 PM PDT by Lekker 1 (("...the world will be...eleven degrees colder by the year 2000" -- K. Watt, Earth Day, 1970)
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To: Tulsa Ramjet

Strangely, I don't see a lot of flag officers on the Afghan/Iraq casualty list published in my local paper. Maybe they need the money as an inducement to keep from retiring early.


9 posted on 10/26/2006 12:27:08 PM PDT by Tulsa Ramjet ("If not now, when?" "Because it's judgment that defeats us.")
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To: Tulsa Ramjet

Philpott is making a point but by using the generals and admirals as focus he is missing the real problem. We don't pay our military folks, admirals, generals, privates, and sergeants much in terms of cash, and we should be paying them a lot more. A 15% across the board raise would make a tremendous difference,and would be a significant way of saying thanks to our armed forces for all of the b.s. we put them through. Any less than that is a real slap in the face of these real heroes, and I feel it is way past due.


10 posted on 10/26/2006 12:28:13 PM PDT by geezerwheezer (get up boys, we're burnin' daylight!!!)
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To: Tulsa Ramjet
Maybe America needs to evaluate what these politicians have as perks, benefits and pay so more of that money goes to the people actually fighting and dying for their mistakes

Are we talking about the GOP controlled Congress?

11 posted on 10/26/2006 12:29:46 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Lekker 1

2.2% is more than I got last year and it's more than my wife got. I seem to remember getting about 3% or so when I was in the Navy. I also seem to remember wives whining about it then as well.


12 posted on 10/26/2006 12:30:02 PM PDT by L98Fiero (Evil is an exact science)
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To: Nachum

Yet, another example of why the Democrats should not control Congress.


13 posted on 10/26/2006 12:31:30 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: L98Fiero

I guess I will always whine when the grunts get less of a raise than those that have more discretionary income.

Maybe someone can come up with an historical chart of the past twenty years and see where both raise trends fall.


14 posted on 10/26/2006 12:32:18 PM PDT by Tulsa Ramjet ("If not now, when?" "Because it's judgment that defeats us.")
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To: 2banana
to the point now (at least in SF) the team commander is one of the worst paid on the team...

That's a very misleading statement, for people not familiar with SF teams. A group of E7s and CW3s with 15+ years in and multiple qualifications are going to be very competetive with a fresh O3 who can't lace his boots without the Team Sergeant JMPIing them.

Officers aren't there to really lead an SF team. They're there to gain experience, before being shuffled off to a different rotation. SF teams are NCO teams, lead by an E8, and those NCOs have skills and qualifications that earn them quite a bit of extra money. The officer is basically kept in tow for paperwork purposes, and for liason work.

Other militaries don't understand our NCO structure, and won't listen to somenone who's not an officer. In that regard, many 'team commanders' are simply there as 'translators' for the team sergeant. An important job, but if you've ever been on or worked with an SF team, you know that the commander is the least skilled, and most expendable asset the team has.

15 posted on 10/26/2006 12:32:20 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: geezerwheezer
A 15% across the board raise would make a tremendous difference,and would be a significant way of saying thanks to our armed forces

Fund this by cutting the budgets related to the Congress. If it meant cutting their operating expenses by 80%, that would be a good thing.

16 posted on 10/26/2006 12:32:40 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Tulsa Ramjet
Maybe someone can come up with an historical chart of the past twenty years and see where both raise trends fall

I'd like to see that kind of comparison between our military people and the politicians in congress that vote their own raises.

17 posted on 10/26/2006 12:34:37 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: 2banana
'scuse me?

Base pay:

Captain at 4 years: $4587/month
Staff Sergeant at 12: $2948/month
Master Sergeant at 20: $4071

Housing:

Master Sergeant at Fort Bragg: $1091
Captain at Fort Bragg: $1122


Granted enlisted get bonuses, but at the 20 year mark those don't count a retirement.
18 posted on 10/26/2006 12:35:17 PM PDT by Gamecock (The GRPL: Because life is too short for bad Theology*)
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To: Tulsa Ramjet

While most of our enlisted military did not join for the money, we should be paying our enlisted men and women well enough to keep them re-upping, and commensurate with their service.

Military pay has gone up a lot since I was an E-4 in the USAF, back in 1969, getting $256/mo, plus a barracks bed, and locker, and three mess hall meals.

It's still not high enough for a man to successfully raise a family on. It should be.


19 posted on 10/26/2006 12:36:35 PM PDT by MineralMan (Non-evangelical Atheist)
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To: Tulsa Ramjet
I worked in my career with some top officers and they basically run companies - CEOs. So they get 100,000 dollars a year and people are complaining. The only way for people in the military to make more money is to make rank!!! Those Admirals did not begin at making a low six figure salary. They probably began making 12,000 as an 0-1. I hear the complaints all too often. After almost 20 years, I am so used to it. I tell my folks to ADVANCE and you will see a VERY good pay raise. BTW, I started as an E-1 and now am an E-7 so I don't make huge bucks, but I do see many people in the Exchange buying the latest gadgets a lot! I just wanted to kind of even the complaint abit with another look. If everyone in the military made 100,000 dollars, nobody would strive to be better and that is the truth. By the way, thank you so much for supporting us!!!! It means ALOT!!!!!
20 posted on 10/26/2006 12:39:41 PM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: MNJohnnie
Curious. What are YOU doing about it?

Many service people found a way to close the pay gap. They're getting out, and becoming contractors. A few years ago, as a serviceman, I qualified for WIC. For those not familiar with it, it's government assistance for poor people so they can get milk, baby formula, etc.

Now that I'm a contractor, next time I go to Iraq, I'll be making more than General Casey.

If the military wants to keep quality people in, they're going to have to pay competitive salaries. 'Selfless service' is one thing. Being a chump is another. Watching your fat cat bosses load up on perks and salary, while you suck on 2.2 percent raise, won't sit with most people.

21 posted on 10/26/2006 12:40:10 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Nachum

Where where the Republicans on this?



Actually it was submitted as 2.7 percent but the White House chose 2.2 instead....not sure of all the exact happenings but don't worry 2.2. is fine.


22 posted on 10/26/2006 12:43:17 PM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: Tulsa Ramjet
This is your typical "tax cuts for the wealthy" argument.

All military personnel are getting a 2.2% raise, E-1 through O-10.

Those 125 Generals and Admirals are having their salary cap lifted. This is so congress can give themselves a raise.

For those that did not know it. ALL federal employees are subject to a salary cap. No matter how long you have been there or what your pay grade is, there is a base pay maximum.
23 posted on 10/26/2006 12:44:39 PM PDT by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: paul51

"Are we talking about the GOP controlled Congress?"

It's hard to say. When he writes that the price of gas is higher, you realize he's in a time warp.


24 posted on 10/26/2006 12:44:46 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: Steel Wolf

"...you know that the commander is the least skilled, and most expendable asset the team has."

The funny thing is that EVERY SINGLE SF team member I have spoken to always answers the following two questions the same:

1) If one person on your team had to be killed, who would be the person who would disrupt the team's ability to continue the mission the LEAST. Answer - The team commander.

2) Which would be the LAST person on the team you would wont to see disabled or unable to perform their duties. Answer - the team medic


25 posted on 10/26/2006 12:45:43 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Steel Wolf

"Many service people found a way to close the pay gap. They're getting out, and becoming contractors.
Now that I'm a contractor, next time I go to Iraq, I'll be making more than General Casey."

LOL. But will you have the marine bodyguards? :)


26 posted on 10/26/2006 12:45:50 PM PDT by Tulsa Ramjet ("If not now, when?" "Because it's judgment that defeats us.")
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To: fireforeffect

"Those 125 Generals and Admirals are having their salary cap lifted. This is so congress can give themselves a raise."

Congress's pay is tied to Mullen's?


27 posted on 10/26/2006 12:47:23 PM PDT by Tulsa Ramjet ("If not now, when?" "Because it's judgment that defeats us.")
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To: Tulsa Ramjet

The fact that military personnel are make so little that they may qualify for food stamps and WIC is obscene.


28 posted on 10/26/2006 12:51:22 PM PDT by Skooz (<---- Bible-thumping fundamentalist, known to the media as a "theocon")
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To: taxcontrol
1) If one person on your team had to be killed, who would be the person who would disrupt the team's ability to continue the mission the LEAST. Answer - The team commander.

2) Which would be the LAST person on the team you would wont to see disabled or unable to perform their duties. Answer - the team medic

Nothing is funnier than doing some pre-raid planning with an SF team. The team sergeant is stuck placating two guys who never get to be on point. There's the team commander, who wants to be kicking doors, and the medic, who wants to be kicking doors.

"We can't risk you up front" always rings a little more hollow with the team commander than it does with the team medic. ;-)

29 posted on 10/26/2006 12:53:01 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Lekker 1

My husband and I had our first child when he was in the Navy. With Tricare, the delivery and hospital stay only cost us $25. What a bargain.

But, it didn't seem right that a married couple with a child, while the husband served in the military, was eligible for WIC. We didn't sign up for it, because of unique circumstances when we relocated away from a Naval Base. The more children you had, the more money per dependent. I wonder if military families tend to be larger as a result?

Kind of like women on welfare who get more money per child. I could never figure out the math in that equation. It didn't seem like a way to get ahead for the average welfare mom.


30 posted on 10/26/2006 12:56:31 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife
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To: Skooz

"The fact that military personnel are make so little that they may qualify for food stamps and WIC is obscene."

Not really. What's obscene is that a 19 year-old E-3 thinks he'll earn enough money in the early days of military service to pay for having a wife and possibly children. It doesn't work that way.


31 posted on 10/26/2006 12:57:12 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: Tulsa Ramjet
Geeze $72 a month when I was a Pvt. I don't remember what it went to when I was an e-5 in 66', but as a 2nd Lt it went to about $325. (I still had to find a part time job at that time.) I was surprised to find out that my son who went into the USAF was getting $1500 as a trainee. Of course now I am in favor of a higher pay raise so I can pay my taxes, that keep going up on our property. (Retirees get the raises too.)
32 posted on 10/26/2006 12:57:50 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft
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To: MineralMan
It's still not high enough for a man to successfully raise a family on. It should be.

An E-4 in the military really doesn't have any business keeping a family. An NCO yeah, but junior enlisted with dependents in tow are a drag on the rest of the junior enlisted. I speak as a guy who always got rousted for details while the off post E-3s got their weekends free.

Just my opinion.

33 posted on 10/26/2006 12:57:51 PM PDT by glorgau
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To: gcruse
I disagree.

We should pay them enough to support themselves and a small family. As an Air Force brat, I know the percs (free health care, discount and tax-free shopping at the commissary, etc).

But, to qualify for food stamps, in most states, one must be at or below the federal poverty level. For those to whom our freedom is entrusted to be paid so little IS obscene.
34 posted on 10/26/2006 1:03:35 PM PDT by Skooz (<---- Bible-thumping fundamentalist, known to the media as a "theocon")
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To: glorgau

"An E-4 in the military really doesn't have any business keeping a family."

I don't disagree with you on that. Still, a heckuva lot of E-4s do have families. It's a fact. What should be often isn't so.


35 posted on 10/26/2006 1:06:18 PM PDT by MineralMan (Non-evangelical Atheist)
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To: Skooz

That tells me more about an unnecessarily high poverty level than the wisdom of encouraging young servicepeople to start families.


36 posted on 10/26/2006 1:07:21 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: gcruse

It has nothing to do with the poverty level or the widsom of starting a family.

It has everything to do with the fact that we pay our service people far too little.

Whether they are married or single, they should be paid more than they are.


37 posted on 10/26/2006 1:10:17 PM PDT by Skooz (<---- Bible-thumping fundamentalist, known to the media as a "theocon")
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To: Tulsa Ramjet

Hmmm. Let's see:

TOP US CEO COMPENSATION (as of 04/06)

Richard D Fairbank Capital One Financial $249.42M
Terry S Semel Yahoo $230.55M
Henry R Silverman Cendant $139.96M
Bruce Karatz KB Home $135.53M
Richard S Fuld Jr Lehman Bros Holdings $122.67M

PROPOSED COMPENSATION FOR MILITARY SERIVE CHIEFS

ADM Mullen: Chief of Naval Operations $167,000
GEN Moseley: Chief of Staff, USAF $167,000
GEN Hagee: Commandant, USMC $167,000
GEN Schoomaker: Chief of Staff, USA $167,000
ADM Allen: Commandant, USCG $167,000

So Philpot, what is a "fair" salary for these individuals who deal with the issues of national security, life and death, and freedom on a daily basis?

God, I wish he'd stop with the class envy crappola or just shut his pie-hole.


38 posted on 10/26/2006 1:10:17 PM PDT by PurpleMan
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To: Steel Wolf

"...next time I go to Iraq, I'll be"...unarmed.

For the life of me I don't understand why contractors, my BiL included, refuse to go without at least a pistol.


39 posted on 10/26/2006 1:11:45 PM PDT by proudpapa (of three.)
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To: Skooz

I managed to do pretty well in a four-year navy stint. By the time you factor in food, housing, and medical care, what's left is mostly discretionary. Guns and butter, Skooz. Guns and butter.


40 posted on 10/26/2006 1:12:06 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: Skooz
The problem is that E-1 through E-4 pay is not designed to support a family. Never was.

When that accusation first started I remember the soldiers interviewed. E-3 with a wife and 3 children. Living off post in a trailer park. Can not remember the post (Knox or Beginning). Was married before enlisting.

Looked pretty bad. Until you found out the details.

Soldier was receiving the housing allowance and his wife worked. Where did his money go? He had debts before he enlisted and wrecked (his fault, minimum insurance) his new sports car before the second payment.

A friend of mine enlisted to pay off his student loans. His wife moved in with her parents and he lived in the barracks until they could get on post housing. Army paid for their children, including a lot of medical for the first one which was premature. Drove a Chevy POS that was 10 years old. Paid off all his loans in his first tour.

What I am trying to say is that most of these "EMs on food stamps" stories are not the military's fault. Maybe the EM's officer or Sergeant were not taking care of the troops. But most of the sob stories I heard were the soldiers doing, not the Army's.
41 posted on 10/26/2006 1:19:43 PM PDT by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: proudpapa
For the life of me I don't understand why contractors, my BiL included, refuse to go without at least a pistol.

In many cases, it's required. I've heard tell, cough cough, that many contracting companies and military units turn a blind eye to contractors who pack. This isn't always a good idea, as there are plenty of people who probably shouldn't be armed.

In fact, I have a, uh, friend, who was once pulled over on the side of the road in the Sunni Triangle. The team moved out and pulled security, which prompted the contractor to move out as well. So there you have this team of stone cold killers, loaded for bear and in a close security posture, and a guy in jeans and a Hawaiian shirt, wielding a rusty 9mm, and posed dramatically in a half crouch like he's James Bond. My, uh, buddy, yelled, "What are you doing?!?" from the turret, and the contractor replied, "Helping". The reply was something to the effect that you look ridiculous, and to get your ass back in the humvee.

42 posted on 10/26/2006 1:29:00 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: geezerwheezer

Ahhh, part of their pay is the breathing checks they receive after retirement. LCol retirement is worth about a $2.0M annuity return.


43 posted on 10/26/2006 1:29:45 PM PDT by zek157
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To: Steel Wolf
An important job, but if you've ever been on or worked with an SF team, you know that the commander is the least skilled, and most expendable asset the team has.

c'mon...the most expendable...let's see..... communication/medic/language/automatic weapon/demolition/HAHO/SCUBA/recon/support....hmmmmmm..... I guess you're tight.

44 posted on 10/26/2006 1:30:23 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck......... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.)
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To: PurpleMan

So what are we supposed to pay our civil servants? Of course nobody cares about the contractors either (the ones that provide continuity when the military personel rotates out everyother year).


45 posted on 10/26/2006 1:31:51 PM PDT by zek157
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To: zek157

"Of course nobody cares about the contractors either'

If you'd be so kind as to post what the contractors make, we can determine if we should care about their compensation.


46 posted on 10/26/2006 1:36:37 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: glorgau

An E-4 is an NCO


47 posted on 10/26/2006 1:38:38 PM PDT by bethelgrad (for God, country, the Marine Corps, and now the Navy Chaplain Corps OOH RAH!)
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To: gcruse

"Not really. What's obscene is that a 19 year-old E-3 thinks he'll earn enough money in the early days of military service to pay for having a wife and possibly children. It doesn't work that way."




Even worse when the 19 year old (or 39) year old is a single mom with a pack of kids.



48 posted on 10/26/2006 1:42:32 PM PDT by ansel12 ( sin holds a sway over their lives to the point where boldness begins to be craved.)
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To: MNJohnnie
Nothing.

Armed insurrection is a serious business and not something I would undertake lightly and certainly not on my own.

I'm also not much of an organizer so I don't see where I would be very effective at trying to put together some type of tax rebellion with popular support.

So I guess I'm looking for ideas...put the dare out there and see who emerges as the leaders along with their ideas about how to rectify this disparity.

Are you rising to the challenge??

49 posted on 10/26/2006 1:46:15 PM PDT by liberty_lvr (Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.)
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To: zek157
Ahhh, part of their pay is the breathing checks they receive after retirement. LCol retirement is worth about a $2.0M annuity return.

With an up-or-out promotion system, any retirement income is pie-in-the-sky until you're actually getting it. It doesn't matter to a captain how much he'll make as a retired L/C if he can't count on retiring.

50 posted on 10/26/2006 1:53:14 PM PDT by Grut
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