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They paved over the dead at Ground Zero...
Take Back the Memorial.org ^ | October 28, 2006 | Tim Sumner

Posted on 10/29/2006 4:35:46 AM PST by Sergeant Tim

...and a few decided to just leave them there.

No matter what you have heard to the contrary, more than five years after 9/11, the Deutsche Bank building has not been fully searched. New York City's official spokespeople are playing word games and many in the media are their echo chambers. When the South Tower fell, massive amounts of debris fell on and into that building, leaving huge beams precariously hanging out over Cedar Street and a twenty floor gouge in the building's north face. When the first big crane approached nearby West and Liberty, the ground shook beneath it. They smartly backed off and engineers soon determined that the bathtub's walls adjacent West and Liberty Streets were unstable. If they had collapsed, the Hudson River might have flooded the Pit and much of Manhattan's rail lines, power grid, and water and sewer systems.

Ground Zero viewed 9 12 2001 from West and Liberty Streets

That did not stop the FDNY. They climbed inside the Deutsche Bank, crawled where they could, and conducted what all that I have spoken with described as a hands-on, visual inspection. While they were accustomed to moving within dangerous places, environmental tests showed extreme levels of toxins. On September 17, 2001, one day after the photo below was taken, they were ordered out. They cursed aloud, swore oaths to return, and repositioned.

the north facade of the Deutsche Bank building September 16 2001

When it was safer, heavy cranes pulled the steel from the building's facade and removed what they could reach from the outside. The building was draped with a heavy, transparent shroud to contain the materials inside and someone hung the sign in the photograph below. It was still there one year after 9/11.

We will never forget them. We will never forget you

The sign is gone now but not the sentiment. We will never forget the grunts of Ground Zero, those magnificent men and women who endured so much, knocked down that Pile, left no stone in the Pit unturned, and brought so many out to us. Their loyalty and love cost many of them their physical health; it cost none of them their honor.

Mayor Bloomberg has been conned. He has been persuaded to place in charge of the renewed search the same agencies that paved over the dead and callously left them there for five years.

Yet the grunts of Ground Zero have not forgotten the fallen or what they saw down there. If you were there and, like a growing list of witnesses, can provide information that will help bring the fallen from that place, please email me, Tim Sumner, at admin@911familiesforamerica.org

I also know the meaning of the word 'honor' and whether we talk on or off the record will be entirely up to you.

Author's note: Please pass the word about this article, bookmark Take Back the Memorial.org and check in there often yourself for updates. -- Tim Sumner, a.k.a. Sergeant Tim


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 911; bloomberg; groundzero; humanremains; victimculture
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1 posted on 10/29/2006 4:35:47 AM PST by Sergeant Tim
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To: Repub4bush; rightinthemiddle; andyk; tiredoflaundry; sono; RasterMaster; markedmannerf; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 10/29/2006 4:37:43 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Sergeant Tim
It's unrealistic for anyone to expect that every piece of tissue,every bone fragment,every wallet will be accounted for at Ground Zero.

Sad....but unrealistic.

3 posted on 10/29/2006 4:43:27 AM PST by Gay State Conservative ("An empty limousine pulled up and Hillary Clinton got out")
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To: Sergeant Tim
Mayor Bloomberg has been conned. He has been persuaded to place in charge of the renewed search the same agencies that paved over the dead and callously left them there for five years.

I'm supportive of doing everything possible to recover the remains of those who died at the WTC.

4 posted on 10/29/2006 4:44:25 AM PST by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Sergeant Tim
They (Developers) been paving over the dead for years in my hometown. Apparently moving graves cuts into developers profits so they officials look the other way.
5 posted on 10/29/2006 4:46:50 AM PST by AZRepublican ("The degree in which a measure is necessary can never be a test of the legal right to adopt it.")
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To: Dr. Scarpetta

Me too.


6 posted on 10/29/2006 4:53:22 AM PST by Alex1977
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To: AZRepublican
Shades of "Poltergeist"?
7 posted on 10/29/2006 4:54:43 AM PST by RedCell ("...thou shalt kill thine enemy before he killeth you by any means available" - Dick Marcinko)
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To: Gay State Conservative
We are not expecting "every piece..." Initially, they had no choice but to pave over the dead yet senior site officials knew exactly what they paved over. In the name of progress -- to be ahead of schedule and under budget -- they deliberately did not go back. They just left paved over fill taken from Ground Zero unchecked for remains and declared the recovery operation over. That is not acceptable in the America I live in.
8 posted on 10/29/2006 4:56:23 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Sergeant Tim

I'm sorry but I just can't get to worked up about "remains" that are over 5 years old.

What should we do, never ever get back with our lives after people die? I lost a wife who was the greatest person in the world, but life does go on or you can sit in your puddles of pity until you join the ranks or pick yourself up, get on with your life and look for the good in the friends and family remaining.


9 posted on 10/29/2006 4:57:11 AM PST by Chuck54 ( "It's NOT the economy stupid; that's great. It's the media".)
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To: Alex1977

In addition to recovering all the remains, I'd like to see a HUGE memorial to the defenseless souls who were murdered by the muslim barbarians. It should be a statement to their savagery for all time, especially when the muslim hordes take over Europe and start trying to deny what they did on 9/11.


10 posted on 10/29/2006 4:57:46 AM PST by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Chuck54

See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1727940/posts?page=8#8


11 posted on 10/29/2006 4:58:27 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Sergeant Tim
Bathtub? Is this a babblefish translation from another language?

...and engineers soon determined that the bathtub's walls...

12 posted on 10/29/2006 5:03:46 AM PST by Ready4Freddy ("Everyone knows there's a difference between Muslims and terrorists. No one knows what it is, tho...)
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To: Ready4Freddy

Where have you been? That's what they called the concrete tub-shaped foundation the building was built on.


13 posted on 10/29/2006 5:05:39 AM PST by Clara Lou (.)
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To: Ready4Freddy

The short version of information about the World Trade Center's bathtub can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bathtub


14 posted on 10/29/2006 5:06:55 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Dr. Scarpetta

I think a tall, graceful obelisk would be perfect as a monument. Then, get on with life--that's the greatest testament. The Muslim terrorists thought that they would cripple the US. Look at us. They lost, and showed themselves for the barbarians that they are. May they rot.


15 posted on 10/29/2006 5:09:07 AM PST by Clara Lou (.)
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To: Gay State Conservative

"It's unrealistic for anyone to expect that every piece of tissue,every bone fragment,every wallet will be accounted for at Ground Zero."

That's why it should be left as a permanent memorial garden instead of building commercial buildings on it again. Imagine someone coming in and building a skyscraper at Arlington.


16 posted on 10/29/2006 5:11:27 AM PST by gregwest
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To: Sergeant Tim

Europe farms and paves over ww1 and napoleonic dead every day. It is a fact of life and death. Where do you draw the line at an arm bone ...or a tooth?


17 posted on 10/29/2006 5:14:34 AM PST by omega4179 (Cheese eating surrender monkeys)
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To: Dr. Scarpetta

A huge memorial, including a museum accurately portraying the "savagery for all time," is why we fought (successfully) to remove the blame-America-first-and-always self-proclaimed International Freedom Center from Ground Zero.


18 posted on 10/29/2006 5:18:34 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Sergeant Tim
The dead are part of ground zero, what is left there is not irretrievable, but should remain , if relatives can be convinced that the more honorable and respectable thing toward their missing loved ones would be to leave them there, with the names of all who were not found etched into the base of the new construction, as a monument to them forever.
19 posted on 10/29/2006 5:20:26 AM PST by F.J. Mitchell (Look for a Elephantastic party win ,so painful the dims charge us with abusing jackasses.)
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To: F.J. Mitchell
What was callously and deliberately left as Ground Zero is far from "unretrievable." Please read this to verify that statement.
20 posted on 10/29/2006 5:26:42 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Chuck54
I'm sorry but I just can't get to worked up about "remains" that are over 5 years old.

Me neither, and I wish they would just shut up already. Are we supposed to stop the world until every 1mm bone shard is found and DNA tested? Ridiculous. It was a horrible crime, but let's remember there are real men dying nearly every day in Iraq and Afghanistan to avenge these murders. Our priorities should be with them.

21 posted on 10/29/2006 5:30:03 AM PST by montag813
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To: gregwest
That's why it should be left as a permanent memorial garden instead of building commercial buildings on it again.

The terrorists who struck on 9-11 wanted to turn a big piece of the most lively city in the world into sad, desolate place. You are proposing we accede to their wishes.

A nation that loves the memory of its honored forebears more than the future of its children is past its prime. The only fitting memorial to the honorable men and women that died on September 11 is to rebuild lower Manhattan into a place that is more beautiful, vital and lively than it was before.

22 posted on 10/29/2006 5:31:03 AM PST by CaptainMorgantown
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To: gregwest
That's why it should be left as a permanent memorial garden instead of building commercial buildings on it again. Imagine someone coming in and building a skyscraper at Arlington.

Sorry,can't agree with this.I don't know how familiar you are with Manhattan,but the "downtown" area (that is,the southern tip) is very,very valuable real estate...perhaps some of the most valuable in the world (except,perhaps,Tokyo and Hong Kong).The NYSE is located not far from Ground Zero as is City Hall and,I believe,the world headquarters of at least one or two of the biggest banks in the world (Chase and the Bank of New York) are headquartered there too.

Yes,some sort of memorial should be placed there...absolutely! But just as London,and Hiroshima were rebuilt after WWII,Ground Zero should also be rebuilt.

23 posted on 10/29/2006 5:38:40 AM PST by Gay State Conservative ("An empty limousine pulled up and Hillary Clinton got out")
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To: Sergeant Tim

if dna find any remains that are from indians/dutch settlers etc.... are the lib/dems going to dig up all the streets of lower nyc?

the recovery work has been painstakingly thorough...it is has been of high cost both in mney and manhours....no one has intentionally tried to overlook anything....at some point in time...the search must come to an end...

then the real work of re-building begins.....all the pc suggestions of what should rise from the ruins stink....

the towers should be re-built.....exactly the same except stronger & taller...there should be a memorials to all the poor innocents murdered and the brave that gave their lives to save others.....

all of the other lib/dem pc crap (slavery/other conflicts)...should not be even considered....this was a national tragedy.....and that is what should be memorialized.....does the memorial in pearl harbor relfect on the US civil war?????


24 posted on 10/29/2006 5:40:57 AM PST by hnj_00
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To: gregwest

different situation - Arlington was meant to be a cemetary from its inception. If you turn ground zero into a cemetary, the terrorists have won. Those who died at ground zero are already memoralized in a cemetary elsewhere of their families choosing.

I agree with taking every REASONABLE measure to recover the human remains, then move on. The important part of everyone who died there is elsewhere (either heaven or hell), and recovering other bits of tissue will not change that.

I do not mean to sound calloused, I would say the same if I had family members killed at ground zero. We need to move on, but never forget.


25 posted on 10/29/2006 6:07:07 AM PST by Mom MD (The scorn of fools is music to the ears of the wise)
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To: Sergeant Tim
More and more Americans are opting for cremation for their loved ones, often because the deceased requests it be that way. I am too old fashioned to even think of this for a deceased loved one, but it seems to be the way of the future.

With this in mind, just how much time and expense should be devoted to recovering every smidgen of DNA from sights of such tragic and mammoth proportion?

Not intending to sound cold, just hopefully reasonable. I search my heart as best I can, and honestly feel that if small portions of a loved one remained at point zero and was covered for ever beneath the new structure, I would have no problem with it.
26 posted on 10/29/2006 6:10:48 AM PST by F.J. Mitchell (Look for a Elephantastic party win ,so painful the dims charge us with abusing jackasses.)
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To: Sergeant Tim

to the disgruntled.....Your 15 minutes are over. move on.....


27 posted on 10/29/2006 6:14:11 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. get wise while yet you may)
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To: Sergeant Tim
The families of the victims blackmailed the taxpayers to prevent law suits from bankrupting the airlines, even though the fault lies with the Muslim Terrorists.

I feel bad for those who lost their lives, but I don't really care for the 9/11 profiteers.

28 posted on 10/29/2006 6:15:03 AM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: montag813
"Real men." 2,749 real men, women, and children were murdered on 9/11 and nearly that many of our troops have died fighting in 9/11's wake. Yet, from what you wrote, I guess you also disagree with the mission of these folks as well. You sound like same kind of senior folks at Ground Zero who paved over the dead and left them. I'll stop there. You can imagine the rest of what I'd write.
29 posted on 10/29/2006 6:16:37 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: gregwest

Lower Manhattan is for the living. To turn the most economically vibrant - and most historically economically vibrant - part of New York into a graveyard would be to hand the terrorists exactly what they wanted. They WANTED to turn lower Manhattan into a graveyard, they HATED its life, its dynamism, its power, its creativity, its sizzle and its promise. HATED IT!

New York should not surrender to terrorists. Recover the remains to the safest extent possible (and for godsakes don't break the bathtub doing it) and return New York to its normal spectacular splendor, unique in the world, ensuring the terrorists' defeat.

The U.S. is full of grassy meadows, if you want one, go to one where they already are.

No surrendering to terrorists' will.


30 posted on 10/29/2006 6:18:27 AM PST by Kitten Festival
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: gregwest
That's why it should be left as a permanent memorial garden instead of building commercial buildings on it again. Imagine someone coming in and building a skyscraper at Arlington.

Fine. We should only build on spots where no one has ever died.

When I visit Antarctica, can I stay at your place?

32 posted on 10/29/2006 6:21:28 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: Mark was here

Word.

I really have no sympathy at all. They have our cash now, so they need to pipe down and beat it. They got what they wanted - our moolah. They were all made into millionaires. If they have any grief left in them after their great consumer hog wallow, they can start focusing on the terrorists instead of how to milk us from some more and turn New York into a meadow, halt all life for the remaining of the living, and achieve what the terrorists really wanted, which was an end to New York.


33 posted on 10/29/2006 6:22:41 AM PST by Kitten Festival
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To: Sergeant Tim

Serach yes, but move on too. Every battlefield never gives up all it's dead.


34 posted on 10/29/2006 6:24:49 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Dancing through life like a street mime with tourettes syndrome.)
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To: Kitten Festival

Same comment (#33) to you as to 'Mark was here.'


35 posted on 10/29/2006 6:25:07 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Mom MD
different situation - Arlington was meant to be a cemetary from its inception

Actually, it was meant to be the Custis family home -- Robert E. Lee married into the family, and came to own the estate. Arlington National Cemetery is where it is because the Union government basically decided to bury their dead in Lee's front yard, to insure that he'd never want to come back to his old home on a hilltop, where he could look across the river and see the Capitol on a clear day.

36 posted on 10/29/2006 6:27:32 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: Gay State Conservative

I live in Manhattan and I agree. New York was settled by traders and is still the World Trade Center.

Arlington is a consecrated military cemetary: you're comparing Big Apples and oranges.

We cannot let emotional attachment to the innocent victims blind us to the real reason the 'original' WTC was destroyed and why it must be rebuilt bigger, stronger and more successful.


37 posted on 10/29/2006 6:30:59 AM PST by Syberyenta
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To: Sergeant Tim
You are arrogant beyond description.

Are you saying Congress did not pay the families in exchange for not suing? If so you are a complete buffoon, because that is exactly what happened. If one is willing to take the cash, one should be willing to proudly say "I chose the money in exchange for not suing, and I'll even show you the papers I signed!"

What is your problem with the truth? Why would you attack me? I did not blackmail anyone, I feel bad for those who died, and I sent money to help the victims via the Red Cross.

Your arrogance in thinking blackmailers can do no wrong is believable, considering the source.

38 posted on 10/29/2006 6:33:41 AM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: Sergeant Tim
Flanders still yields remains
Tuesday, November 11, 2003

BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- "Eighty-five years after the end of World War I, investigators are still finding remains of soldiers who perished in Flanders fields -- site of some of the war's most intense fighting."

39 posted on 10/29/2006 6:36:21 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Mark was here

Read his profile. Methinks somebody has an agenda here...


40 posted on 10/29/2006 6:37:58 AM PST by Sofa King (A wise man uses compromise as an alternative to defeat. A fool uses it as an alternative to victory.)
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To: Sergeant Tim

Sounds like you don't have a good argument or any new information that might change my mind about this. I have nothing against your point of view but I think you lack perspective.

Very well then, I will take that lack of any reasonable ability to add new information as confirmation of what I said and I will continue thinking it.


41 posted on 10/29/2006 6:38:29 AM PST by Kitten Festival
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To: Mark was here
Apparently, you also (as my family did) lose someone on 9/11?

So, when you signed those papers, you took a bribe. Correct?

You lumped in every 9/11 family member with your statement. That is what I object to. My sister-in-law did not want to spend the next 10 or 20 years in litigation. She had kids to raise and hearts, including hers, to heal.

42 posted on 10/29/2006 6:41:47 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Sofa King

Yes, I have an agenda. Take (here) a guess what it is.


43 posted on 10/29/2006 6:44:15 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Gay State Conservative

WE should have started REBUILDING the towers, only even taller, the same day they fell.


44 posted on 10/29/2006 6:45:14 AM PST by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, ATF and DEA)
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To: Sofa King

Go to his website. Anti-left, anti-Murtha, pro troops.


45 posted on 10/29/2006 6:45:41 AM PST by RGSpincich
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To: Sofa King
Read his profile. Methinks somebody has an agenda here...

Oh my, someone who chose not to sue the airlines perhaps?

If one knows the events of 9/11 were the cause of the terrorist, there would be no need to agree to not sign a form not to sue the airlines, because you would not of sued them any way. Now if there was a chance you were to sue them, it would mean you did not hold the Muslims completely responsible, and then you would not be running a web site blaming the terrorists... OH my!

46 posted on 10/29/2006 6:52:23 AM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: Mark was here

We blame terrorists for 9/11. What I want from them has nothing to do with money.


47 posted on 10/29/2006 6:54:39 AM PST by Sergeant Tim (In the War on Terror, there is no place to run from here.)
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To: Sergeant Tim
Apparently, you also (as my family did) lose someone on 9/11? So, when you signed those papers, you took a bribe. Correct? You lumped in every 9/11 family member with your statement. That is what I object to. My sister-in-law did not want to spend the next 10 or 20 years in litigation. She had kids to raise and hearts, including hers, to heal.

Litigation suing who? Were you hoping to sue Bin Laden, or are you talking about suing the Airlines?

I did not have any relatives die in the attacks.

Did you Sister in Law sign the forms?

The way I see it your sister in law did not have to spend 5 seconds in litigation if she would of chosen not to sue anyone.

48 posted on 10/29/2006 7:00:30 AM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: Sergeant Tim

What the terrorists wanted had nothing to do with money either. They had a thing against skyscrapers and all they represented and wanted to turn New York into a meadow, same as their stinking caves over in the statue-desecrated Afghani badlands. They wanted that.


49 posted on 10/29/2006 7:01:00 AM PST by Kitten Festival
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To: Sergeant Tim

I really didn't realize that there were areas that were not searched. JPAC should be able to help put a proper light on the whole thing. Without research my cousin would have never returned home from WWII thirty years later.


50 posted on 10/29/2006 7:03:03 AM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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