The nasty side of the new GOP

The Star-Ledger via NJ.com ^ | October 23, 2006 | John Farmer

[NeoCaveman]

The nasty side of the new GOP

Finally, a party worth voting for, one that fights.

And no, I haven't read the article, just commenting on the title.

[jammer]

Yeah, that's well-written and thought out. Good response, with my thanks.

My take is that we get to a slippery slope (pardon the hackneyed expression) by confusing the religious aspect of marriage and the social/legal/financial aspects of it.

Just what is marriage? With a federal marriage amendment, we totally remove the religious aspect of it and maintain, as you say, the "social contract" aspect of it. For the sake of argument, if we do that, then do we really have any reason, other than pique or disapproval or whatever, to deny homosexuals the ability to enter a contract that, after all, has been rendered legal, social, etc. instead of religious? If we collectively say, "no, we disapprove of homosexuality and therefore we are passing this amendment," then I am skeptical and certainly do not think it can get enough votes to pass the states. We would get to the same position here as the atheist who insists upon a moral framework--there is no basis for that framework, just as there no longer would be a basis for disapproving homosexuality.

I realize at least most of the arguments against my position--I question it myself. The major one is that if we make a distinction, i.e., a marriage defined as I define it and contracts as currently marriage is defined by the IRS, etc., then we end up with what I am inveighing against!

I have no answer to that, but suppose the distinction is between what I see as my idealism and your practicality.

[jammer]

Armey, obviously,was a Republican ONCE, but is now a RINO.

Preposterous, but expected from those who see the Republican Party as it now stands as anything other than RINO. Look, you've read out (the egregious David Frum the foremost, in 2002 and 2003) of the conservative movement any who disagree with many of the Republican vehicles propelling our headlong charge into disaster, including many people in previous administrations. You're doing nothing but redefine "RINO", just as your ilk has redefined--and destroyed--"conservatism."

No, there are plenty of RINOs extant, but those who support the GOP as it now stands, and denigrate those who fought the hard battles and got the GOP in a position of power, are the real RINOs.

[Valin]

Welcome to the 2008 presidental race. Please fasten your seatbelt...it's going to be a bumpy ride...no matter what happens on Nov. 7th.

[Valin]

Heck I wasn't even aware it was a problem...but then I don't gamble.

[Valin]

The problem is Armey apparently thinks Dobson speaks for me...or other evangelicals for that matter. And we don't think for ourselves.
As I said this is all about the 08 presidental primaries.

[Valin]

but is now a RINO

Why?

FreedomWorks Chairman and former House Majority Leader Dick Armey
http://www.freedomworks.org/armey/

For 18 years in the House of Representatives, Dick Armey fought tirelessly for lower taxes, less government, and more freedom. In 2003, he joined FreedomWorks to lead the same political revolution at the grassroots level.

Upon joining FreedomWorks, Dick Armey said, “During my time as Majority Leader on Capitol Hill, I came to recognize that grassroots action is the most important factor to winning at politics. That’s what FreedomWorks is all about. I know FreedomWorks and its members well from past campaigns on the Flat Tax, Social Security reform, and school choice. In every issue that matters to the U.S. economy, FreedomWorks is right there in the fight. I am very excited to be a part of this great organization.”
(snip)

FreedomWorks
October 20, 2006


Tell the FCC to keep the airwaves free of government meddling!
An email call to action from Dick Armey.
http://www.freedomworks.org/newsroom/press_template.php?press_id=1959

National Insurance Act of 2006 Will Bring Reform
Letter to Rep. Ed Royce
http://www.freedomworks.org/informed/issues_template.php?issue_id=2740

Lincoln Chafee...Jim Ramstad. Now these are REAL RINO's
Because you and I disagree that makes someone a RINO?

[steve-b]

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Now, I can't say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals. The strongest man on the block will run the neighborhood. We have government to insure that we don't each one of us have to carry a club to defend ourselves. But again, I stand on my statement that I think that libertarianism and conservatism are travelling the same path.

[steve-b]

BTW, the timing of the attacks by Danforth, along with Quo's (Sp?) and Bush's other antics makes it clear to me that this attack is being orchestrated from the White House itself.

[WOSG]

"If you want to see victory, then don't help the Democrats gain power. You can be assured that the experts are devising the way to victory. However, the Democrat leaders, Leftist organizations like International ANSWER and MoveOn.org are pulling out all the stops to lead us to defeat. While there is plenty of violence, it is contained within a small area whose epicenter is Bagdad. Most of the provinces are quiet, but the MSM doesn't want you to know that. Their mantra is the casualty count that doesn't reflect the entire story, which is that the majority died by accidents. Sad but different from hostile fire. Take into account the little know fact that 2400 were killed in the practice for D-Day."

Correct!!

[WOSG]

"I say this 'til I'm blue in the face. Both christian conservatives (me) and libertarians (you) have to face the fact that together we comprise considerably less than 50% of the voters in the country. Both groups stand broadly for lower taxes, less government, more power to the states, less federal mucking about in almost everything etc. If you look at the Christian Conservatives, they are also the most reliable economic conseravatives--Santorum and Coburn come to mind.

But a solid majority of the house and the senate is compriesd of RINOs and Dems, who like high taxes, big governments, federal power etc. So that's what congress produces, year in and year out. In fact, the worst excesses of the past six years have been legislation that Teddy and McCain put together or that W and Teddy put together.

Our task is to elect more politicians who actually believe in smaller government, not to try to destroy the only other faction in politics that shares our interest in smaller government. To do that is going to take years because the voters surely must like big government. They keep electing the same dem/RINO coalition and its principal product is ever growing government. It's going to take even longer if the only two small government constituencies hate each other."

Keep saying it because it is brilliant and true - the various strands of conservatism need to hang together or we will all hang separately.

[TigersEye]

The problem is Armey apparently thinks Dobson speaks for me...or other evangelicals for that matter. And we don't think for ourselves. As I said this is all about the 08 presidental primaries.

I guess I'd see it as a problem for Armey. It looks to me like he just insulted all of Dobson's fans and most conservative Christians. I wish Republicans would leave the foot-in-mouth act to the Dems.

[Valin]

I wish Republicans would leave the foot-in-mouth act to the Dems.

Agree...they are after all skilled professional at it.