Posted on 11/01/2006 6:58:50 AM PST by Joe Brower
Reliability problems with XS Sight Systems 24/7 Express Sights
Howdy, shooters,
Sorry for the vanity, but I wanted to relate to you RKIs the continual troubles that I’ve experienced with the 24/7 “large dot” Express Sights that I installed on my Sig P229 earlier this year, get your opinions, and also ask what other tritium night-sights you might have to recommend.
Here’s a link to the product in case you’re wondering what exactly I’m describing: http://www.xssights.com/store/handgun.html
To make a long story short, I have now had three of the rear sights go dead on me; that is, the tritium capsule leaks until it no longer glows. The front sight has been fine the whole while, but three dead rear sights in ten months’ time seems a bit out of control, especially seeing as how these are for a combat pistol. If they can’t stand up being in the safe, I’d hate to see how they perform in the field.
The first set was installed by a pistolsmith, and the rear sight went dark within a month of installation. When I called XS Sight Systems, they were very helpful and immediately sent a replacement, which I myself meticulously installed. This second rear sight went dark after about six months, in which time I probably ran about 500 rounds through the pistol on three separate occasions. So I got another replacement, which I again installed. Now, two months’ later, this one has gone dark too, making it three-for-three. Has anyone else experienced continued problems like this? Are there similar reliability issues with their other offerings, which may indicate a pattern?
It is worthy to mention that when I called for the third set, the guy I spoke to went on and on about how “the Sig P229 has a strange dovetail” and how that made installations difficult, and a couple other caveats, to which I asked “Then why do you sell the things?”, which he didn’t really want to answer. So at this point, confidence is low. A shame, really, because I really like the product itself -- the configuration of these sights works better for me than anything else I’ve tried.
Which leads me to my final question: Can anyone recommend any other night-sights that have a similar configuration? Lacking that, how about any others? Any particular brands you’d recommend? I’d appreciate the input.
Thanks,
Joe B.
P.S.: As an aside, when I got my first set for the Sig I also got a set for my Glock 23. That also had the rear sight go dark on that gun after about eight months, and has since been replaced. Again, not very impressive.
Sorry, don't know much about them, but it seems as though they at least service the product. Suggestion if you get the guy about the dove tail problems point out to him that your Glock also has problems with the sight.
for $120, you can send you sig back to the factory and they'll install the factory night sites for you.
Leaking tritium capsules?
IIRC, companies that use tritium are licensed to do so by the DOE. Leaky vials might be a big issue.
I'm a Trijicon guy. They've never let me down.
And the meprolights that came with my Glock 22 are very nice as well.
Sig sights, though otherwise excellent) don't get it for us geezers. It's hard enough to see the Big Dot 24/7's without reading glasses.
Yes, this is the problem. The zero is fine.
Meprolight seems to hold up well with Police service Glocks
They are also recommended at the Glock Armorer school
You can get them here
Joe, those sights are definitely leaking as Tritium has a halflife of 12.3 years. I wouldn't worry about the exposure too much, as it is a weak beta emitter (stopped by clothing or skin - the main means of introduction to the system in inhalation, but the old method of tritium decon is to drink a 6 pack and literally pee it out). It's clear that this a QA problem on the sight maker side. Either they'll make it good or switch to another manufacturer. I had good luck with Trijicon.
Even though we are dealing with a radioactive material here, there are thresholds of quantity and activity that are literally below the radar as far as regulation is concerned. I'd bet this is the case here, considering the paperwork I go through for items above the limits.
...tuned for hydrogen. (Tritium is an isotope of hydrogen.)
Yes, I am thinking that myself! Thanks for your informative post. Please look at my post #17 and tell me what you think.
This is an extremely interesting thread as I was considering the purchase of these exact same night sights for my SIG SAUER P229 in .40 S&W as we speak. This has given me food for thought.
You sound like you are being extremely fair and reasonable in your interactions with this vendor. My temptation now is to send my P229 back to the factory for new sights and then mail the refurbished pistol to Walter Birdsong for his wonderful and proprietary Black-T coating. Keep this thread pinged with how the whole thing works out. We may learn it was just a bad batch and that the folks at XS SIGHTS are a fine group of people with whom to do business!
~ Blue Jays ~
Sir,
I have been an avid shooter and a "man at arms" since 1953.
(That means I have earned my bread by carrying arms for a living as a military man and professional law enforcement officer)Thirty seven years worth.
Except for those times on holiday when wearing a weapon was not on the menu, armed with a large bore handgun. Or two.
I do a LOT of shooting.
Often.
Wife annoyingly often.
You would think she would be numb by now. Uh-uh!
I know most handguns and shoulder arms pretty well by now. I also know enough not to perform any gunsmith work beyond that needed to keep the weapon running.
Anything more than routine cleaning and maintainance I leave to those who earn their bread in that profession. (smart division of labor as well as foolishness prevention technique)
Do not get me wrong. I have made many dumb weapons errors, but thankfully that was early in my life. I avoid them now in my silver haired years.
Chances are that *you* have damaged the integrity of the tritium capsules during the install and on more than one occasion.
I am not throwing rocks at you, just the likely circumstances.
I know a lot of folks that have used Ashley's XS and never had a problem. The lamps hold their integrity very well as history has shown. Some like them and some do not. I do.
Personal taste like Lambghorgini or Ferrari, or VW.
I cannot point a bony finger at you and say you screwed the pooch, but it seems so.
There are LOTS and LOTS of good smiths that can fix the problem. It is not a biggie nor very costly. Get it done and move along. Shoot well fella and enjoy the day.
Your sig is a good piece. Not a BHP or 1911, but what the heck. :-)
Gideon Reader
I know it's not what you want to hear, but why have tritium on the rear at all? If you've practiced with the gun the rear site should index close enough for you to put that green dot on a target.
Currently, my only weapon with tritiums is my S&W Mdl 24 revolver. I use it for road trips and night matches. It has a set of Meprolights, so far no problems. (you might ask why I have tritiums on the rear, they came as a set, what the hell)
Can you recommend some? I don't know of any in my local area. I'm sure they exist, but the few "smiths" around here that I _do_ know of I wouldn't trust to put a new spring in a Daisy Red Ryder.
I do wonder about the suggestions about doing without the illum on the rear sight; I'll have to try that out. Not thinking outside the box on that one -- never occurred to me to give that a try. So try it I will.
On a final note, though, I do have to say that my expectations of a combat-pistol sight would be that my install would not be enough to affect them to the point of such quick failure. Which makes me question the overall usefulness of them in light of their apparent fragility.
I've not tried the XS units, so I won't comment on them particularly, nor on their use on a SIG 229, with which I don't have much experience. [I do with the SIG 226 and SIG-Sauer P220/ Browning DA .45 auto versions.] But I've noted the same problem with other tritium-vial night sights, including the supposedly 10-year life Nite-Sites by Julio Santiago, one of the first commercial offerings on the market. My first set *went dark* in around 11 months [Browning GP application, front and rear] and were cheerfully replaced on failure. The second set went at around eight months.
I've had the same problem with the front Tritium rifle sight used with the British L1A1 FAL-type rifle with the large-diameter aperture *Hythe* rear sight. The Brits went through about three different versions of the front sight unit before finally chucking the idea and going to the replacable Tritium capsule in the SUIT scope instead. Interestingly, the manual for the glow-in-the-dark front night sights includes warnings not to touch or ingest [!] the broken bits if the sight vial is broken, so the Brits/Commonwealth likely had some cracks/breakage problems along these lines, too. But in any event, I've seen L1A1 front sights dated just a year or two old that exhibited absolutely no luminosity whatsoever. Happily, the large aperture rear sight works well for me as a *ghost ring,* whether the front post is lit or not.
I've known a couple of revolver shooters who've had the things on their sixguns, and had the fairly long life expected and advertised, so recoil vibration associated with the semiauto functioning cycle may be a part of the problem. Or it may just be that nowadays there are more semiautos around, and that they accordingly exhibit more problems with the replacement accessories.
One other thought: a pal of mine swears by the MeproLights on his USP, and has gone through two sets in around a dozen years, having switched to new ones for Y2K as a possible preventitive measure. His thoughts on the matter are varied,but include the interesting theory that muzzle blast from other weapons alongside may cause more damage to Tritium vials than that from the parent weapon- which makes sense. Accordingly, when someone shoots alongside him at a range, back into his holster or range box his USP goes.
Here is a link to a sight adjustment tool that will fit a SIG P229, it costs less than the SIG tool, but works very well.
http://www.topglock.com/catalog/tools.htm
That should be: ...and works very well.
Sheesh.
Agreed. And thanks!
I only got into night sights earlier this year, so I've been stumbling around a bit. My usual approach. I am considering just restoring the rear sight to the factory original and calling it a day. I think that would actually work fine. I hate asking XS Sight Systems for yet another rear sight when I feel I goofed the last couple up.
As for having fun, I am having fun! I love learning new stuff.
Thanks again.
Ahhhh the operative phrase....when the gunsmith did it.... I never tinker with stuff like this where my life could depend on the outcome.
Which is why I gave it to a highly experienced pistolsmith the first time around, after which the rear sight went dark in less than a month...
I just got off the phone with Blake at XS Sight Systems, explained my troubles, and he told me that if I send them the slide off my P229, they will have their own gunsmith install a new rear sight. All I have to do is send it to them, and they will take care of the rest. Pretty darned good of them, if I'm any judge!
So off she goes, if not tomorrow, then Monday. I told him if it doesn't work out after this, I won't bug them again, but rather I will just reinstall the factory rear, which I tested this morning with the big tritium dot left on the front, and this "front only illum" arrangement does work well.
Thanks again to everyone for their input.
Right out of the box they were just about dead on at 21 feet. I'm satisfied with the product and with the service.
If you get no satisfaction from your current vendor I would recommend Trijicon highly.
L
By the way, it appears that XS Sight Systems offers this gunsmithing service for about $75 or so. If I had known that, I would have done that from the get-go.
Stay well,
Thanks for the follow up. I have XS ghost ring sights on my Winchester 94 and it is good to know they are willing to stand behind their product.
Good luck with the new sights, I hope things work out in your favor!
Thanks for the follow up. I have XS ghost ring sights on my Winchester 94 and it is good to know they are willing to stand behind their product.
Good luck with the new sights, I hope things work out in your favor!
Whoops, double tap.
And with a lever-action, no less. $;-)
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