Why Top Atheist Now Believes in a Creator : An Interview with Antony Flew

LEE STROBEL ^ | 11/02/2006 | Lee Strobel

[SirLinksalot]

Why Top Atheist Now Believes in a Creator

By Lee Strobel

11.2.06

Some news items are so staggering that they demand personal investigation. That was the case with the stunning announcement in late 2004 that the world’s most famous philosophical atheist, Dr. Antony Flew, had abandoned his skepticism and now believes in a Creator.

Finally, I was able to sit down with the Oxford-educated author of three dozen books – including The Presumption of Atheism and Atheistic Humanism – and interview him about his new conclusions. The remarkable conversation was captured on video and is now available in free clips at www.LeeStrobel.com. Here are some highlights of my chat with the spry 83-year-old professor.

Flew was warm and friendly during our conversation, offering thoughtful responses to my questions. He seemed comfortable in talking about his new beliefs, yet he was still careful in how he stated his position. It was clear that he was still thinking through some of the implications of his new-found belief in a Creator.

Asked what prompted him to so dramatically change his views, Flew focused on one particular issue. "Einstein felt that there must be intelligence behind the integrated complexity of the physical world," he said. "If that is a sound argument, the integrated complexity of the organic world is just inordinately greater – all the creatures are complicated pieces of design. So an argument that is important about the physical world is immeasurably stronger when applied to the biological world."

He said in his opinion it was "just obvious that [this] argument is much stronger now" than ever before.

Interestingly, this is some of the evidence I discuss in my book The Case for a Creator, which retraces and expands upon the scientific investigation that led me from atheism to Christianity. Included in my book is an eye-opening interview with Dr. Michael Behe, the biochemist from Lehigh University, who describes complex and interdependent biological systems that can’t be explained by Darwinian evolution and instead are better explained as the work of an Intelligent Designer.

During my interview, Flew spoke out strongly against Islam (calling it "intellectually contemptible") and made it clear that he’s not yet a Christian. Still, as I pressed him on the attributes of the God he believes in, I was struck by how they tracked so well with the Christian conception of the Creator. For instance, Flew said he thinks the Creator is an omnipotent, eternal, conscious and intelligent being.

Although Flew takes a deistic approach by saying the Creator is uninvolved with humanity, he did concede that "it’s a reasonable thing for someone to argue" that the Creator is caring toward those he created.

Concerning Christianity, Flew called Jesus "a defining case of a charismatic figure." I probed on the issue of the resurrection – a topic on which the atheist Flew had debated with Christian philosopher Gary Habermas in the past. Previously, Flew’s position was that a miraculous event like the resurrection wasn’t possible because God didn’t exist.

I pointed out that since Flew now believes in a supernatural Creator, then the possibility of Jesus’ resurrection becomes more plausible. His reply was encouraging to me: "I’m sure you’re right about this, yes," he said.

Still, Flew said he hopes there is no afterlife. "I don’t want to go on forever," he said. "Really?" I asked. "Even if there’s a heaven?" Flew replied: "Well, it would depend rather on what the activities were."

"If the Christian God exists," I said, "What would he have to do to convince you?"

As an atheist for most of his life, this wasn’t something Flew had pondered. "I’ve never thought about this at all," he said. Then he added: "But he would presumably know."

I pointed out that famous atheist Bertrand Russell said that if he were ever confronted with God, he would complain to him that he had failed to provide sufficient evidence of his existence. "But you’ve found enough evidence of an Intelligence, so you’re further along than he was."

"Yes, oh, yes," he said. "I mean, there’s been a gigantic advance in the sciences since the death of Bertrand Russell."

I asked whether it would require an encounter with God for him to believe in Christianity. "Well, yes, it would, but until you’ve had that experience, I think it’s impossible to believe it. You know, if I now had this sort of experience, it wouldn’t seem right to me. I would wonder what was going on [and whether] I was going crazy."

His biggest barrier to Christianity, he said, is the doctrine of hell. "If I had begun as a Christian believer, I should have believed in the goodness of God, and I should regard it—as I do regard it now—as totally inconsistent with the doctrine of eternal torment for anyone."

At one point, he commented: "If I had been brought up in a Catholic school [with the teaching about hell], I would presumably have been terrorized into belief."

I mentioned to him that my book The Case for Faith includes an interview with Christian philosopher J. P. Moreland on the rationality of hell. Flew said he would be willing to read the chapter if I sent it to him.

A few minutes later, as we were saying goodbye in the lobby of the hotel where the interview had taken place, someone came up to me with a copy of The Case for Faith and asked if I would sign it.

Instead, I promised to send the person another copy—and promptly took the book, marked the chapter on hell, and gave it to Flew.

No word yet on whether it has influenced his thinking.

[Tribune7]

Who created God,

Once you recognize that there is a limit to the human mind and that question is impossible to answer you stop banging your head on it. What came before the Big Bang?

Materialism fails because it can't address those questions. The recognition that there is a power not bound by the laws of nature is the only rational way of dealing with them.

[SirLinksalot]

I aways saw Hell as a loss of God in which God tells those bound for it that they hated Him in life so He's going to give them what the want, namely a place where He's not.

You are not alone in your belief. C.S. Lewis, I believe seems to have said as much.

He said : God honors the choices of individuals. "There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.' All that are in Hell chose it."

Another book that explores this is a great book by Prof. Jerry Walls entitled : Hell The Logic Of Damnation, and its sequel -- Heaven: The Logic of Eternal Joy

[ShowMeMom]

Top Atheist Now Believes in a Creator

Top Atheist?? There is a top atheist? Are there also middle atheists and bottom atheists. And if he's no longer an atheist, who's on top now?

[Tribune7]

He sums it up better :-)

[Wings-n-Wind]

Ping 4 Later

[shield]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[geopyg]

"If the Christian God exists," I said, "What would he have to do to convince you?"

....

I asked whether it would require an encounter with God for him to believe in Christianity. "Well, yes, it would, but until you’ve had that experience, I think it’s impossible to believe it...."


His biggest barrier to Christianity, he said, is the doctrine of hell.

....


I mentioned to him that my book The Case for Faith includes an interview with Christian philosopher J. P. Moreland on the rationality of hell. Flew said he would be willing to read the chapter if I sent it to him.

A few minutes later, as we were saying goodbye in the lobby of the hotel where the interview had taken place, someone came up to me with a copy of The Case for Faith and asked if I would sign it.

Instead, I promised to send the person another copy—and promptly took the book, marked the chapter on hell, and gave it to Flew.

.......


Hopefully this encounter will help Flew connect the dots.

It reminds me of the joke with the guy stranded and God telling him "I sent a raft, a boat and a helicopter".

[Paloma_55]

My vision of hell is to be alone, without God.

It does not demand fire, brimstone, the devil or anything so terrible as all that. I believe that being without God for eternity would make a fiery hell seem like a good thing.

[Paloma_55]

I find it interesting when reading Stephen Hawking that a man, paralyzed for life and yet exceptionally brilliant, has clearly come to understand that God created it all.

[JCEccles]

And if he's no longer an atheist, who's on top now?

My vote goes to Peter Singer.

Among his other "enlightened" views, Petey advocates giving new parents a 30 day test drive to decide whether to keep a baby or to kill it. And he has no moral objections to man-animal intimate relations (can interspecies marriage be far off?).

Atheism is a delightful belief system to follow if you don't give a sweet rosy damn where you end up.

[JCEccles]

My vision of hell is to be alone, without God.

The 107th Psalm well describes it.

[LukeL]

I watched a debate with him and Gary Habermas on the John Ankerberg show. He seemed like a really nice guy and not one of these atheist who look down on everyone and have a big ego because they are educated.

[Socratic]

His religious beliefs aside, "An Introduction to Western Philosophy - Ideas and Argument from Plato to Sartre" (1971) was my college textbook in '73 for a Philosophy 101 course and I would recommend it to anyone as a thoroughly lucid, yet rigorous, exploration of philosophical development. I've always admired excellent writing which displays a self-assurance that forgoes verbose flourishes.

[USS Alaska]

At 83, he realizes that death is near, and asks himself, what if I've been wrong all these years?

It's the same as being in a foxhole with incoming getting closer, to whom do you think the prayers go? And how do they address the Being that they are praying to and begging forgiveness with promises of "being good" if you get me out of this shit....hmmmmmmm

When it's over, it's God who? I promised what? But soon there will be another foxhole. He is timeless and can wait.

[SirLinksalot]

There is a top atheist?

I think, by that, Strobel means that he is the atheist that atheists look up to to bolster their belief in the non-existence of God.

In that sense, Flew is a top atheist. He is oft quoted, is also the one atheists present as their champion in debates with Theists, and his conversion to Deism made NEWS because reporters thought it was a very big deal.

I have seen common atheists become Christians in my lifetime, no one made a big deal of it. But Antony Flew's change of mine was reported ALL OVER THE WORLD.

In this sense, he is "TOP".

[SirLinksalot]

I find it interesting when reading Stephen Hawking that a man, paralyzed for life and yet exceptionally brilliant, has clearly come to understand that God created it all.

Now, this is news to me. Can you provide sources for this at all ? Links ? News sources ? Blogs ?

THANKS.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

1. A novel definition of "God" by Richard Swinburne.
2. The case for the existence of the Christian God by Swinburne in the book Is There a God?.
3. The Church of England's change in doctrine on the eternal punishment of Hell.
4. The question of whether there was only one big bang and if time began with it.
5. The question of multiple universes.
6. The fine-tuning argument.
7. The question of whether there is a naturalistic account for the development of living matter from non-living matter.
8. The question of whether there is a naturalistic account for non-reproducing living matter developing into a living creature capable of reproduction.
9. The concept of an Intelligent Orderer as explained in the book The Wonder of the World: A Journey from Modern Science to the Mind of God by Roy Abraham Varghese.
10. An extension of an Aristotelian/Deist concept of God that can be reached through natural theology, which was developed by David Conway.

Came to Deist conclusions on many of these same issues while still in high school in 1979.

"Flew states that he has left his long-standing espousal of atheism by endorsing a deism of the sort that Thomas Jefferson advocated ("While reason, mainly in the form of arguments to design, assures us that there is a God, there is no room either for any supernatural revelation of that God or for any transactions between that God and individual human beings.")."

Rejected that form of deism. This is an argument from hubris which takes as a naturalist assumption that which actually demands that every event in the universe down to the subatomic level be observed and every subjective experience to be objectively examined in order to prove the absence of God in them and their causes. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle scientifically defines an area where God may not only play dice but is the dice in the appearance of randomness.

Flew's conception of God as explained in the interview is limited to the idea of God as a first cause, and he rejects the ideas of an afterlife, of God as the source of good (he explicitly states that God has created "a lot of" evil),

Flew's confusion on the point of "evil" comes from the failure to distinguish moral evil from physical evil and denial of an afterlife. Physical evil such as death only has consequences in the physical world whereas moral evil has consequences in both the physical and spiritual world. We are morally responsible for what we do in the physical world because that is what we have been given responsibility for. God is not morally culpable for anything that happens in this temporary physical world so long as it serves a good purpose in the higher spiritual world. Denial of an afterlife and devine intervention is essentially a denial of God because it denies spiritual consequences for what we do and affirms only an amoral prosperity philosophy in which God, the creator, need not be feared as God, the destroyer. To assume that God does not destroy anything he creates is illogical.

and of the resurrection of Jesus as an historical fact. He is particularly hostile to Islam, and says it is "best described in a Marxian way as the uniting and justifying ideology of Arab imperialism."

Since one has to admit the possibility that God could reveal Himself, then it becomes a probability that He has revealed Himself, consider all claimed revelations and "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" 1 Thessalonians 5:21. Flew has begun that process here distinguishing between Christianity and Islam. He just needs to go deeper and remember that a religion is what it says it is, not what people say about it or do in its name.

[SirLinksalot]

And if he's no longer an atheist, who's on top now?

How about Oxford Professor, Richard Dawkins ? The world's foremost exponent of Darwinism and the delusion of belief in God ?

[JCEccles]

Dawkins is hard to top, atheist-wise.

[Mom MD]

Got em all. I often use them as recommendations to people who seem open to hearing more about Christ, or who are honestly searching.
What a great witness he has.