Skip to comments.Repost: (+) THE ART OF THE (WEAPONS) CACHE (+)
Posted on 11/08/2006 7:21:48 PM PST by SW6906
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Very nice. In the scenario described in this thread, where things have gotten so bad and un-Constitutional that confiscations are occurring and only those who react appropriately to the threat and modify their behaviors have any chance of retaining their weapons, there will always be those who think that it can never happen to me and continue on as if nothing has happened and accuse anybody who suggests minor and proportionate modifications of their actions to suit the threat of being a fag. Those people will be the first to lose it all.
The first rule of any stealth operation is 'keep your mouth shut'.....this doesn't mean that you're a queer or giving it all up, it's a basic rule that needs to be followed in order to complete the mission i.e returning America to Constitutional Law.
Superbly stated, thank you.
OK I recind my semi-expert status. I was looking at some rifles and ran into 7.62x39 and 7.62x54. HELP! I am going to assume that the 762x54 is the nato round but then I saw an SKS 762x39 so I are cornfused agin'!
Please refer to ATF for actual advice, but as far as I know, it is. The rationale may have been that 1) .06 is obsolete 2) .06 is not a naughty black plastic rifle caliber 3) Much surplus .06 is steel core anyway. I really don't know. One other theory is that AP .06 is a better and more stable long range target cartridge--in other words, a sporting round. Or if your oddly afflicted like myself, that some folks are trying to place things under the radar of loonies and criminals. Not a lot of drive bys and robberies with .06.
If I was going to cache some firearms, I would not cache all. First off, I would sort by which ones have a paper trail. Those would be left at home for the JBT's to find. After all, they already know I have those ones . . .
Those with absolutely no paper trail (no 4473, no sales receipt, no gunsmith records, etc. ) would get cached with ammo and cleaning kits.
That way, if they come they will collect what they think I own. They will think they have it all. Later I can always acquire another collection by using what was stored away.
>>>They are all pretty much varients of your standard .30 cal round with various case lengths, bullet weights, and powder loads .30, .30-06, .308, 7.62x54R, and the .30-30 are the more common types.<<<
I believe all of those use the .308 caliber bullets, except for the Russian (7.62x54R) which uses a slightly larger caliber (.311 I believe).
Yes, and when things get so bad in the USA that firearms confiscations begin, you won't be able to use them for hunting or going to the range anyway and so you can cache them securely, along with your Smith and Wesson T-shirt and Colt belt-buckle until a more enlightened era comes around. You can continue fishing and take up bow-hunting and tell all of your friends who have become sheep and turned in their guns to be destroyed that you have done the same, and then change the subject. You can even show them the receipt for the 'junk gun' that you actually turned in as evidence of this.
Some 'select' weapons are of course kept for home protection, so that you will at least have the opportunity to be judged by twelve as opposed to being carried by six if some criminal thug decides to break into your home or carjack you.
And all the while, you tell NOBODY that you have a gun.
After all, how are you going to be able to get to the polls to vote for rescinding the gun ban if you are in jail for firearms violations?
All of us have different circumstances but a thoughtful and a suitably creative person can usually find a way to deal with a threat, and also to have the agility and stealth necessary to make changes in order to address a changing threat.
The same 150gr boattails I load in my .30-30 are the same ones you load for the .308Win and the .30-06. Look up a bullet manufacturer like Speer. You won't find a ".311" bullet listed. Just .30cal. Some do give bullet dimensions, most go by common caliber name.
10mm and .40S&W pistol shoot the same bullet.
mark for self
Matt, if you're out there, this ping is for you.
A junkyard where cars have been there so long that they have trees growing up through the hood is a good place to hide guns.
Also, I have suggested using a fresh grave as a weapons cache. If the occupant was a patriot, he/she wouldn't mind. If they were a gun hating liberal, just think of the irony as they watch over your cache for years.
If you feel the need to tell someone where the cache is, lie to them the first time and watch them to see if they are a snitch.
And lastly, if it comes down to having to cache our weapons, it is long past time to use them.
Yes, it's kind of beat-up, but it's fully functional and "as accurate as I am".
>>>Nope. They are all .30. The 7.62 in the diameter of the bullet in mm. 7.62mm =.3".Nope. They are all .30. The 7.62 in the diameter of the bullet in mm. 7.62mm =.3".<<<
Listen carefully. The "7.62" Russian is not the same as the .30 caliber used in the 30-06, .308, 30/30, and .30 carbine.
>>>Look up a bullet manufacturer like Speer. You won't find a ".311" bullet listed.<<<
Actually, they are common. The following link is Hornady's list of Russian 7.62x54 bullets. The bullets are listed as .310 and .311 inches:
It is okay to reload a .308 bullet into a Russian casing, but not the other way around. A Russian bullet will increase chamber pressure in a .308Win or a 30-06.
If you intend to reload, I would recommend you make a habit of NEVER, EVER making assumptions like you did with the Russian bullet diameter. Reloading with too large a bullet diameter is just as dangerous as improper case trimming or overloading powder.
Thanks! That's the kind of thing I wanted to know.
When it was over, the stock was charred from the heat of the barrel, and his shoulder was numb for several days and black-and-blue for weeks.
The fact that he was alive to tell the tale implies his M1 did not fail him.
Anyway, the government can't stop all the other illegal crap that's going around now, how could it take up all the firearms? Prohibition never works.
Not sure what the 7.62 X 54 is, since the NATO round is 7.62 X 51.
There are enough cartridges to sink the Bismark.
Further, the Russian bullets weren't swagged and could vary by up to .02, so if you want to pick another friggin' nit, your CUPs might rise by a few hundred but you probably won't notice this unless you are pushing max compressed loads on a bench gun.
Dead Corpse, why take a chance with chamber pressure? There are zillions of .308 diameter bullets out there for use in the .308 Win, 30-06, etc.. Save the Russian diameters for the Russian cases.
BTW, your first link only shows what I have stated earlier: it is acceptable to load a .308 diameter bullet into a Russian case (but not the other way around). Your second and third links reference only the Russian cartridge.
For anyone who will listen, NEVER load the larger Russian bullets for use in the smaller .308 caliber rifles (.308 Win, 30-06, 30-30, etc.. If ain't worth it.
A force that is in a fight, or which anticipates someday being in one, has a need for reserves. Unless the mere existence of those reserves is specifically intended to have a deterrent effect, it is best that the reserves remain unknown to the actual or potential enemy (and even if that's the goal, those reserves need to be secure from seizure or destruction). A good example of this is the Soviets, who had over 100 divisions that the Germans never knew about before invading in 1941. When the Germans had destroyed, captured or made combat ineffective the 180 divisions that their intelligence said the Russkies had, while the Russians were still fighting like mad, they realized that they were in deep trouble.
In a situation with guns in civilian hands, there are clearly records out there about most guns sold in the last 38 years, plus any older ones that were sold as used through FFLs. In a worst case scenario, one would have to assume a knock on the door by a dozen or so vested and well-armed individuals who had a list of all of your guns. Then is not the time to say that they were lost or stolen or destroyed or sold, etc. - it is the time for handing them over or dying along with your family. If, however, you wanted to live to see your kids and grandkids grow up, and to see them live in freedom, you'll have previously acted like a 2-legged squirrel and put something away for a rainy day. Since acting alone is usually less effective than acting in concert with like-minded people, it'll be time to organize and make plans - and only later will those plans be implemented and need equipment to do so. This'll also be a time for keeping one's head low and not coming to anyone's attention - hence the need for secure reserves that are available much later than when a bunch of JBTs comes to your door.
So, ignoring my simplistic response click the following:
Scroll down to: "Military cartridges in 7.62 mm calibre "
With respect, I disagree. The time to cache is when there is no immediate threat, or one looming distantly on the horizon - i.e. when you've got the time to find one or more good locations, pack things up the right way, add to them occasionally, etc. In this context, it also gives you the ability to acquire things off paper while that is still legal.
Picking the correct time, tactically and strategically, to fight, and the best method of fighting (i.e. with words, strikes, or "other methods") is a matter for consideration in the future, based on the facts and circumstances THEN. Running off on the spur of the moment to snipe at a bunch of armor-clad JBTs who can call in lots of back-up in a few minutes is a quick ticket to visiting your ancestors, and does little good to those you leave behind or the cause of freedom. Our enemies have had patience (mostly) and have thought through their scheme over a period of decades - and we should learn something from that.
762x51 NATO = .308
726x39 = AK or SKS type
762x54 = Mosin Nagant or Dragunov (I have also seen 762x54R but I'm not sure this is the same round).
One of the best places I know of to cache your extra supply is in the remote areas of state or federal parks, just across the fence from adjoining private property.
Remember to keep it above flood level and try to avoid heavy snow areas.
>>We're already profiled.<<
Yes we are. That is why IMO, we should stash our extra tools away. I wouldn't be surprised if some day a gang of Feds bangs on the door and demands all my weapons. Go ahead and take everything in the safe will be my smiling response, knowing that I have other specialized tools within 3 to 40 miles along all the highways leaving town.
Taking a $50 rifle and burying it, then digging it up two years later will tell you if you have the technique down pat.
Myself, I like PVC 8" sewer pipe with mechanical plug. Another friend prefers his PVC columns. http://instantarch.com/products_column_cap_base.htm
Now that's high class stuff there. LOL
I need to replace mine.
Have you ever used Styrofoam Housewrap Insulation to wrap rifles in? It is the same stuff as egg cartons are made of but thinner and flexible. Roll the rifle about six or eith times and you're ready for the plastic bags.
The replies are almost better than the excellent original post!
If that day comes, they likely won't 'bang' on your door, rather flash-bang grenades lobbed in after breaking it down.
Hopefully your dogs will still be alive at that point (if you own any) and you wont be holding anything that can be construed as a weapon.
Lord help us if the witch regains the reins to power and control of the IRS, BATFE.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
7.62: a great round, so good our military and most of the free world uses it. Consequently, because of the war, a lot of it that would be available for us to buy is going to kill our scumbag Muslim enemies. As a result, the price has shot up (no pun intended) over the last year and a half. There is some good Indian surplus stuff out there, and maybe some South African, but the price for both of these was way up the last time I went shopping for ammo. I haven't seen any of the really good Portuguese and Israeli surplus stuff for a while now...hopefully there will be some at the gun show tomorrow.
7.62x39: also good, doesn't hit as hard as the 7.62x51, though. Numbers approximate the .30-30 from what I've seen, which makes the 7.62x39 soft point a good deer round, too. Prices have almost doubled over the last year, also likely due to the war and Chavez stocking up for that Yankee invasion he's been talking about for the last few years.
7.62x54 and 7.92 (8mm Mauser): both are old WW1-2 rounds, used by the Sovs and the Germans respectively. Plentiful and CHEAP! Better yet, Mosin-Nagants and Turkish Mausers are cheap and effective rifles, and if you have a Curio and Relic license, they can be delivered directly to your door. No, I don't sell these, but I do highly recommend them. Mausers aren't as sexy as AKs, HK-91s, FALs, but they do the same job just as good, and you can use 'em on your next deer or elk hunt, too.
Happy shopping...enjoy it while you can, bro.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
I'm definitely gonna buy a 762 something. I am leaning toward the 30.06 (763x63). The ammo seems to be readily available and if the SHTF I feel that there would be plenty around. I really looking at the CMP Garand (service grade $425) though if I could find one 'off the books' I would probably be willing to spend a bit more.
One reason (main reason) I'm leaning toward the Garand is 'they keep on shooting no matter what' and they have super knock down as well as 'reach out and touch you' capabilities with 8 available rounds for not much cash outlay.
I am gonna look around here some more. I know of a couple of Mosins I could get for under 100 but some how I'm just not excited about them.
ALL input is gratefully accepted and if you have more 'fire when ready'
BTW I always have a pot of coffee on!
Hehehehe...yeah, I've had one on continuously since Tuesday!
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the Garand myself, just don't have one (yet). My Dad has a beautiful Match Grade M1, but I'm afraid he'd turn me over his knee if he even caught me looking at it...and he's 71! I've started stocking up on surplus .30-06, though. The CMP website has some Greek (I think), and you can usually find semi-corrosive Korean surplus in the 8-rd. clips in Shotgun News. Just be sure to clean your rifle immediately after shooting the corrosive stuff (always a good habit to be in anyway).
That said, even if Mosins don't excite you, they're great cache weapons, and are also great hunting rifles. A buddy of mine never fails to take a buck with his Mosin. Plus, the ammo is cheap, cheap, cheap! It's not too expensive a proposition to buy a few for the bad times to come, if/when you need to arm a few buddies or family members.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
I remember it well. I was signed on as someone else then.
BTW - He did not call for violence. He only hoped that the quislings would be hung from trees when the civil war starts.
I happen to hope similarly.
I share his sentiment.
He did not bang his sword, rally the rebels and call for violence, nor did he say he would personally hang the quislings from trees, nor did he patently call for others to hang the quislings from trees.
He did hope that the quislings got their just due, (by hanging from trees) but he never called for unrest nor encouraged others to do so.
Hey, I liked the guy and I didn't ban him, I'm just saying that's why he was banned. It's not my perception that matters, it's the big guys perception that matters.
I wonder if JR is eating crow now that the GOP lost the senate and house. Maybe him and Rush shouldn't have carried water for so many quislings. Ya think?
FR used to be a spirited place. I'm sorta glad the GOP lost the house and senate. Maybe the GOP can once again realise how bad the Dems are gonna destroy this country, and maybe the GOP won't cower from or pander to them, or at worst, sell out the party to line their own pockets.
the brass varies by lot number for both military and civilian cartridges.
I weigh the brass, and group them by weight. If one case weighs more than the other, and the outside is the same, then the difference is on the inside, The heavier one actually shoots higher (I find), most likely due to the higher pressure when touched off, due to same charge in a smaller space. The difference can be more than 20 fps out the barral.
"Profiled"? Well, of course. As a white, middle-aged, heterosexual Christian male, I'm profiled many times over. The larger worry is being "on the list" - which I most assuredly am. Back before the anti-gun crowd caught my attention and made me re-evaluate certain practices of mine, I bought several firearms over the counter from a local dealer. Years later, that dealer was investigated and eventually the FFL holder was convicted of selling guns to felons. All the transactions were legit, as I understand the regs governing FFL holders; it was an ATF fishing expedition. But I digress.
Bottom line - ALL of the dealer's 4473s were seized. So, the feds know what I bought there - as well as the purchases by many others, including my dad, cousins, friends, etc. We're all in the database. So now, I consider all of the stuff bought on a 4473 to be "sacrificial". It's not the entirety of my collection, though... and it's certainly not all in one place.
Here's another thought: Do y'all remember the Smith & Wesson "agreement"? Well, it's not dead. In fact, I think I just saw it twitch.
Yeah, I can see where an activist Federal Judge could link a search warrant to every one. Agents could go online for a particular 4473 and the server could come up with all kinds of information plus a ready made search warrant. Is this a wonderful country, or what?
Thank you! Makes me want to get back into loading. I sure have a mean pile of empty brass now.
How do you measure muzzle velocity?
there are kits. You set up the device just ahead of the bench, and shoot through two hoops. The minicomputer measures the bullet speed from the first ring though the other.
Chrony to measure muzzle velocity.
You might have a point about the gun grabber aspects. I could see them going that route just like they did with "assault rifles" that are functionally identical to most any other rifle, just "military" in appearance.
Read my tagline: there is no such thing as having too many guns. I keep a Mossberg 500 (?) shotgun with the shorter (legal) barrel, plug removed and pistol grip on it for home defense. I have it loaded bird shot - bird shot - buck shot - buck shot - slug. I figure it is in order of needing to get the perps attention. If he's still coming by the time I get to the slug, the slug will certainly stop him. ;o)