Neo-Nazis attack Jewish memorial

news.com ^ | November 10

[twinself]

A GROUP of German neo-Nazis, some shouting "Sieg Heil", rampaged in the eastern city of Frankfurt on Oder and destroyed wreaths placed to mark the anniversary of the 1938 Nazi pogrom against the Jews, German TV said today.

German television network ZDF reported the neo-Nazis tore apart floral wreaths and threw away candles placed at a memorial marking a destroyed synagogue in the Polish border city late on Thursday – 68 years after the Nazis' Kristallnacht or "Night of Broken Glass".

A spokeswoman for the Frankfurt on Oder police said she could not confirm the report and that the state prosecutors office was responsible. The state prosecutors office was not immediately available for comment.

German television reported that 19 people between the ages of 15 and 24 were detained after the attack.

Earlier in the day President Horst Koehler, in a speech broadcast on national television as he attended the consecration of a new synagogue in Munich, warned that anti-Semitism was still present in Germany.

[twinself]

WOW! It takes balls to attack a memorial.

[HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath]

The Nazi's should team up with the Muslims and the Homsexuals and form an org called:
CAIR-HAIR-NAIR

[fireman43]

Germans haven't changed. They still love Hitler and hope the Islamonazis finish off the Jews for them.

[twinself]

There's certain Hitler sentiment among common Germans I've met but showing it officially would mean political suicide and German elites knowing it try supress it. It is therefore socially sublimed to the form of politically correct "expelled" societies, Wehrmacht cult within Budeswehra and officially registered NPD party gaining wider and wider support. Anyhow Western Germans are going to have a BIG problem with their muslim minority but nazi pussies from Frankfurt know nothing about it.

[Caipirabob]

The only purpose these jerks serve is to provide an example of people I can say I dislike more than the Democrats.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]

----------------------------

[Alouette]

Gays attack Jerusalem.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

There is some anti-German sentiment amount this American and he isn't afraid to say so.

[M. Espinola]

"Germans haven't changed. They still love Hitler and hope the Islamonazis finish off the Jews for them."

They are still ticked off about losing the war (two wars) and blame the very people they tried to totally exterminate.

How many ever wondered why Germany was sliced in two in 1945?

A united Germany always brings out the worst in the Germans.

[Schweinhund]

Nah, we're blaming Hitler for the war, Britain and Russia for the defeat. But I think we got over being ticked off.

What I really don't like to see is that the judge decided there was no reason to keep those Neonazis in jail because "there was no danger of repeating or fleeing". I got used to having some of these idiots around, but I'm not going to get used to the government being soft on them any time.

[Michael81Dus]

How many Germans have you met in person? How many times have you been to Germany?

[Schweinhund]

Michael...relax...it's just a Cowboy, Kraut.

[M. Espinola]

You bring a refreshing overview to the situation. I hope I did not sound to hard in my previous comments.

[M. Espinola]

I have met enough, some fine living in the present, some rotten glued to the past.

Asking me if I have visited Germany is like me asking you, do you have to visit Greenland to realize it's bloody cold.

Others I know did indeed 'visit' Germany, the hard way, as in playing a part in the defeat of Nazi Germany.

[Schweinhund]

Newsboard rule #1: Don't take posts under a 100 words too serious.

Anyway, being a West German, I totally agree with you that the Reunification was a bad idea.

[M. Espinola]

Good tip on rule #1 :).

Do you feel the repressive, brutal years of Russian controlled communist rule in East Germany is in part responsible for the current wave of neo-nazism.

I fully realize neo-nazi types are on both side of the Atlantic, causing trouble in various nations.

[Michael81Dus]

So you say you can determine an entire nation when reading articles which would be local news in all other states except for Germany like you can determine the climate of a country when looking at the weather data?

You know "enough" Germans, great. You sound as if you still hang in the past, claiming that Germans didn´t get over the defeat of Hitler´s Reich. I have written down my thoughts about the generation of Germans that lived in 1933-45:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1735211/posts?page=54#54


Oh, and yes, there are significantly more Nazis in East Germany, and it´s because of several reasons:

A) The level of frustration is higher in the East as the unemployment is double as high as in West Germany.

B) The people in the East feel as citizens of second class, because their system has failed and their way of life ended.

C) The Nazi time was almost non-existant in the history books of the GDR, the people should not concentrate on the defeat by the Soviets but on the enemy in the West.

[Schweinhund]

Nah, I don't think it's the repression. People learned to cope with it a long time ago. But then the wall fell and the East part of Germany rushed in to live the good life they had seen on West German television. They did not want regular food or a decent car, they expected to get BMWs, nylon stockings, they wanted the luxury they had seen on West TV, where everyone seemed to have stuff like this. In other words, they took our capitalist propaganda for real, something a child raised in the West learns to see through very early. Soon they had to realize that things weren't as golden on the other side of the rainbow. In the mean time, the industry of East Germany collapsed. What wouldn't have collapsed because it was inefficient, just collapsed because of investors from the West which tried to get in on the subvention game. Only a few East corporations wich just were top of the line survived (Zeiss Jena for example). This can certainly not explain all the Nazi activity in (East) Germany, but as I see it, the very desolate situation in East Germany, where everyone seeking opportunity has to head West and jobs are still very scarce, has made the East very unstable. The old and the young hopeless people which dwell there are easy prey for extremists from the right and the left (the later ones are at least less threatening to normal citizens). These people are looking for scapegoats for their situations, and foreigners are always the easy scapegoat.

[Schweinhund]

I think the repression played a role in the downfall of the GDR. Especially when the regime started "expatriating" artists and other public figures whose opinion was not 'in line'. Generally that moment is seen as one of the key moments where GDR citizens realized what it meant that this government was not their government.

[M. Espinola]

Well worth repeating:

"The old and the young hopeless people which dwell there are easy prey for extremists from the right and the left (the later ones are at least less threatening to normal citizens). These people are looking for scapegoats for their situations, and foreigners are always the easy scapegoat."

Both you and Michael81Dus have highlighted the history and the ongoing economic problems existing in East Germany.

Would it be fair to state in some ways the eastern portion of Germany is has some of the same adverse economic characteristics of the Depression era of the early 1930's, thus the rise of neo=nazism and far leftist fanatics as well?

Russia is another alarming example of increasing violence attributed to neo-nazi hoodlums,

[Schweinhund]

Would it be fair to state in some ways the eastern portion of Germany is has some of the same adverse economic characteristics of the Depression era of the early 1930's, thus the rise of neo=nazism and far leftist fanatics as well?

I'd say so, yes. Most regular people only start to question a ruling ideology when they have the feeling it does not include them anymore.

But both movements are in no way as strong as they have been in the 30s, given the fact that both failed spectacularly.

[M. Espinola]

The points you made relating to East Germany are very valid.

I reviewed the information you wrote in the link provided and while agreeing with most I do question this "All Germans who were not Nazis (85%) were glad when the allied liberated them from the Nazi dictatorship... since in 1940 the vast majority of German, Austrian and Nazi collaborators were in the streets cheering the swift 3rd Reich military victories in western Europe.

Forcing France to surrender in the same rail car Germans were forced to surrender in the 1st World War obviously brought cheers inside Germany in many quarters.

It's one thing to say the bulk of Germans were glad the Allies won, but that's because Germany was beaten in the spring of 1945, it was no the case in the spring of 1940 when Germany was beating the pants off of every nation they invaded.

[Michael81Dus]

Of course the Germans who were no Nazis had mixed feelings: on the one hand, it was themselves or their relatives and friends fighting on the fronts, and on the other hand they were fighting for an evil regime. To me it´s understandable that they expressed joy when the army suffered not many losses.

Therefore I can´t imagine a German of 1945 was happy that his country lost, although he/she probably has been happy that the oppression by the Nazis ended. The consequences of the defeat was a destruction of the industry (in the Soviet occupation zone: a massive destruction), hunger due to a food shortage, freezing due to a lack of coal and oil, high unemployment and months/years in prisoner camps for the former soldiers. On the other hand, they did not have to fear death or KZ for articulating their opinion, got their personal freedoms back (except for the East), and got a perspective - the first democratic parties were founded just months after the surrender. For the west, the after-war-story has been very successful. With economic recovery the acceptance of the political system increased, and that´s why Germany nowadays is a stable democracy in which the Nazis are a well-watched minority of up to 5%.

[Atlantic Bridge]

WOW! It takes balls to attack a memorial.

Yes indeed. They all earned their knights crossing.

Maybe 12 years ago I had a funny discussion with a young neonazi skinhead in a Hamburg subway. He was stammering something about being arian and member of the pure race. Lots of BS of course. In difference to him I was (am) tall (1.94 m) blond and (at that time - in the meantime I suffer from a beerbelly) quite handsome. Therefore I asked him who of us both would have gone to Auschwitz into the gas chamber. Me, wearing a suit with a appearance that fits exactly to the Germanic ideal (God made me that way - as I said in the meantime I can not pose for statues of Arno Breker anymore) or him in his funny skinhead outfit. He was exactly what the nazis described as anti-social (asozial). Such guys went to the KZ with a black triangle. You should have seen the reaction of that idiot when I told him that his role models would have taken him into a Concentration camp, maybe used him as a "Capo" for a while but for sure would have taken him into the gas sooner or later. Fodder for the ovens.

Usually I do not use such drastic examples and I dismiss for sure the role of being the super-arian but I had some hope that this moron (he was maybe 15 years old then) could learn something out of this. Nevertheless - the world is plastered with idiots.

[M. Espinola]

"For the west, the after-war-story has been very successful. With economic recovery the acceptance of the political system increased, and that´s why Germany nowadays is a stable democracy in which the Nazis are a well-watched minority of up to 5%."

America has been extremely generous with it's former adversaries, unlike the Axis powers which brutalized, plundered and exterminated those they conquered during the war.

As for neo-nazism's antisemitism, that demonic spirit remains regrettably alive amongst the hordes of Islamic terrorists and skin headed street thugs in Western nations.

[M. Espinola]

"But both movements are in no way as strong as they have been in the 30s, given the fact that both failed spectacularly."

We need to make sure both failed hate movements remain isolated and insignificant, for if we do not history has a very bad habit of repeating itself.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

German Scientists Concerned About Rise in Creationist Belief ^

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1732043/posts

[Michael81Dus]

I don´t call it generous. It was just the best option - in the beginning of the cold war. Politics is not about generousity.

[AmericaUnite]

CAIR-HAIR-NAIR

Funny!

[AmericaUnite]

I think the EAST Germans brought up under communist ideology and being much poorer have a lot to do with the skinhead movement there.

[Schweinhund]

We need to make sure both failed hate movements remain isolated and insignificant, for if we do not history has a very bad habit of repeating itself.

Yes, that is one of the big challenges Germany continues to face. The PDS (left wing) and the NPD (right wing) still try to sneak into the mainstream. Their biggest helper is the structural change the developing world is facing. As the classic base of voters for the major parties continues to blur in the face of a changing economy, both SPD and CDU move closer to the center and become harder to distinguish in terms of their agenda (I think in the US there is the term Republocrats). This makes room at the political fringes, which extremists are happy to fill.

The fact that most of the necessary change Germany is facing will mean new burdens or at least the discontinuation of social services is another fact that plays into the hands of fringe partys.

But I still see much of the political trends of the last time as a kind of protest voting...people still realize that Communism, Socialism and Fascism are in no way an answer to Germany's problems.

[M. Espinola]

You have a point. The biggest mistake at the end of the war was allowing Moscow to enslave Eastern Europe.

[M. Espinola]

I agree. The neo-nazi hate movement targets those they feel are economically disenfranchised, easily tricked with phony promises for a better life if they blame everyone else, and the East fits the bill.

The skinheads, Klan and other hate groups are like rats & lice infesting a garbage dump.

[M. Espinola]

Currently which party between the PDS (left wing) and the NPD (right wing) has more followers? Does either one hold national political power, and if so how many elected office holders in Berlin?

"..people still realize that Communism, Socialism and Fascism are in no way an answer to Germany's problems."

A strong economic system is the best way to beat the fanatical forms of 'isms' around the globe.

[Silly]

anti-Semitism was still present in Germany.

That's runner up for the understatement of the year, just behind "anti-Semitism was still present in France."

[Michael81Dus]

Yep. You had "the bomb" then - as the only nation. So you could have easily blackmailed the Soviets... but hey, we can´t change history - and we know always better afterwards. :-/

[Schweinhund]

2005 Bundestag elections showed a strong success for the PDS or Die Linke (The Left) as they call themselves now. They reached 8,7% and became 4th strongest power in the Bundestag with 54 seats. The established parties (SPD, CDU/CSU, FDP, Grüne) refuse to work with the Linke and ruled out a coalition with them before the election. The success can be explained with their strong base in East Germany (the PDS formed out of the SED, the former ruling party in the GDR), an influx of communists from West Germany and also votes from SPD and Grüne voters which were disillusioned by the economic reforms and general course of the Schroeder government.

In the same Bundestag election the NPD reached 1,6%. Their biggest success was the entry into the state parliament of Sachsen (Saxony?) with 9,7%. That is the only state where the NPD could pass the 5% border to enter parliament.

[M. Espinola]

Very interesting data.

It's a shame the PDS have been able to secure 54 seats Bundestag. One would think the communist example of East Germany would wake up people to reality.

In relation to the NPD, do you know if Sachsen has a higher level of unemployment?

I did a little research on the 2004 vote in Saxony and discovered the NPD had 190,909 votes, which is a 9.2% vote percentage, giving them 12 seats, and a general vote total of 9.7%.

source

[M. Espinola]

We should have used our weight wit 'the bomb' verse the Soviets prior to the war just ending.

We need to recall Germany and Japan were also working on their own versions of 'the bomb', and America beat them to it. If the Axis Powers had 'the bomb' first the world would be a far different place today.

[Schweinhund]

It's a shame the PDS have been able to secure 54 seats Bundestag. One would think the communist example of East Germany would wake up people to reality.

Yeah, but there are some factors that work for the former communists of the GDR:

1. Disillusionment. The former GDR being confronted with the realities of Democracy or Capitalism...turns out that you have to work harder, turns out that you have unemployment even if you work hard, turns out that the elite still profits from the people even though it's rather the economic elite instead of the political elite.

2. Nostalgia. Most people had a decent life in the GDR. Sure, there was this Stasi apparatus and oppression, but regular people did not have too much to do with that. So when the wall came down they were happy alright, but only until they found all the people from the West talking about how awful their former life in the GDR had been and that the GDR had been a monster and it was good it was gone...and the new history books did the same. That kind of made their previous life in the GDR worthless and evil in their eyes, and it did not feel that way to them.

So the slogans of the Left focus around the power of the kapital and

In relation to the NPD, do you know if Sachsen has a higher level of unemployment?

They do...2005 they had the 4th highest unemployment figure of Germany, 365.588 people or 16,6 % of Saxony's population which is able to work. The three higher-ranking states are also of the former GDR. Still, Saxony has good growth rates (8-10% in 2003).

[Schweinhund]

Sorry, left one paragraph unfinished.

So the slogans of the far Left focus around the power of the industry and the healing power of increased Government intervention, while the far Right concentrates on German payments to the EU, the social security payments for foreigners and of course the power of Jewish interest groups in German politics.