Giuliani takes step toward '08 bid

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061113/ap_on_el_pr/giuliani2008 ^

[screw boll]

Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, a moderate Republican best known for his stewardship of the city after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, has taken the first step in a 2008 presidential bid, GOP officials said Monday...

[LC HOGHEAD]

hes far from perfect but Id rather have him than McLame or Hitlerly

[JustPiper]

We WILL keep the White House!!!

[Names Ash Housewares]

What are his greatest failings with conservatives?
I am not intimate with the details on this.

[MNJohnnie]

Well we got to have someone. But talk about someone the Social Conservatives will never love! McCain appeals to the Establishement types only no one else will back him. Rommny is wind vane politican.

Man has the party of Ronald Reagan got NO one better then this?

[M203M4]

Has he seen the light regarding at least 2A yet, or do his hopes need to be dashed now?

[Suzy Quzy]

Get real!! Rudy was a great mayor of a decadent city....3 wives, pro-home, anti-gun, no foreign experience spells LOSER RUDY....HELLO HILLARY!

[JustPiper]

Hilliary won't win, but who do you think can beat Obama?

[Proud_USA_Republican]

I agree.

Many paint him as a 110% RINO, but him being Mayor of ultra liberal NYC vs being president is two entirely different things.

I give him a ton of credit for doing what he did in NYC considering what a liberal hellhole that place is.

I'll take him over McCain anyday of the week and if he runs, Hitlery is especially deadmeat, because it guarantees that the GOP takes New York in the electoral vote.

[pcottraux]

First McCain, now this...

Now that the 06 elections are over...

...It has begun.

[WhistlingPastTheGraveyard]

Pro-abortion, pro gay agenda, anti-second amendment with a very sketchy personal life.

A Giuliani nomination would be the death rattle for the Republican party.

[LegalEagle61]

I like the man, but not for president, maybe VP.

[spikeytx86]

He is pro-choice and supported gun control as mayor and he dosent gay bash. He is indeed no social conservative but walks the walk when it comes to fiscal conservatism. Besides running for president of America allows one to be more conservative then when you are running for Mayor of a city that is less then 20% republican.

[Hydroshock]

I will not vote for this rino!!!

[spikeytx86]

So dont.

[JustPiper]

ping

[UncleSamUSA]

A lot of die-hard "we hate Rudy" social conservatives are going to be very surprised at the stances Rudy believes in and the conservative viewpoints Rudy will bring to the table. It is gonna be a long campaign and all that we Rudy-ites ask is that you LISTEN to what the man says on all the issues and then decide if you'd rather have Rudy or McCain or the Hildebeest as your next President in '08.

Coz all the wishing in the world aint gonna make Tancredo or Geo Allen viable nationwide, no matter how congenial they may seem to the "I hate Rudy no matter what" crowd.

[Cobra64]

Has he seen the light regarding at least 2A yet, or do his hopes need to be dashed now?

Do you have the transcripts of where he wants to amend or abolish the Second Amendment?

[word_warrior_bob]

It's kind of like Tyson-Holyfield, there was supposed to be this big fight, then it gets called off and comes back years later.

Hillary vs. Rudy 2008 - This time it's personal.

[Cobra64]

Do you have the transcripts of where he wants to amend or abolish the Second Amendment?

[davidwendell]

What are his greatest failings with conservatives? Well, He is....

100% Pro-Abortion - even partial birth abortion

100% Pro-homosexual - even supports homosexual marriage

100% Anti-gun ownership - supports registration of all firearms

100% Pro-illegal immigration - supports amnesty for illegals

This guy is suicide for the Republican Party. Sometimes I wonder is their is a conspiracy to get Hillary elected, because this guy is the ticket for a '08 Hillary presidency.

[JCEccles]

you'd rather have Rudy or McCain or the Hildebeest as your next President in '08.

None of the above.

I'd rather have Romney.

Romney-Barbour, or Romney-Sanford. Either would beat Hillary with ease.

We'll listen to Giuliani, but with the understanding that he is a born and bred big city Rockefeller Republican. Skepticism is in order. He gives no indication that he has any understanding of or sympathy for the interests of conservative traditional families. At this late stage of life, he isn't going to gain any of that experientially either.

[taxesareforever]

The GOP will not run anyone on the final ticket that upholds right wing republican principles. It is a shame but they are going to try and be inclusive to moderates and right wingers.

[Hydroshock]

I will go third party before I vote for a anti gun , pro abortion rino.

[lowbridge]

Forget it. If he wins the nomination, he'll go down like Dole or Bush-41

[Mia T]

precisely.

Giuliani looking good right about now

By Lorie Byrd

Sep 27, 2005

 

This is the story of how Hurricane Katrina made this conservative Republican fall in love with Rudy Giuliani all over again.  I first developed a fond affection for the mayor when he did what many believed could not be done and cleaned up New York City.  In 1999, I cheered him when he stood up for common decency and the taxpayers of New York by rejecting city funding for elephant dung art.  My admiration turned to love when Mayor Giuliani reassured the nation, and the world, with his incredible response to the attacks of September 11.

An admirer of Giuliani and a believer that he had a good shot at the presidency long before Hurricane Katrina, I now find myself becoming a full-fledged fan of the prospect.  I will likely get some grief from some of my fellow pro-life, social conservatives, but I hope they will consider not only what an attractive candidate Rudy would be in the post-Katrina political climate, but also to consider the attributes Giuliani would bring to the presidency.

On September 11, we saw what a leader looks like during a crisis and it looked like Rudolph Giuliani. In contrast, the recent example of New Orleans’ Mayor Nagin taking to the airwaves cursing the federal government and calling for the cavalry, not only did not look like leadership, but made Giuliani's performance on 9/11 look positively, well, presidential by comparison.

Many of the lessons learned from Katrina highlight Giuliani’s strengths. Considering that he received some of his harshest criticism as mayor for his tough law and order positions, it is impossible to imagine Giuliani giving looters a pass (and, I would argue, encouragement) as Mayor Nagin did in the early days of flooding in New Orleans.

Thanks to the blame-Bush media, it seems the public now believes that the first and ultimate responder to any kind of disaster, whether natural or man-made, should be the federal government, or more specifically, the President.  Giuliani is the only potential 2008 candidate that has shown himself capable of handling a challenge of such historic proportions. Because issues of national security and war and peace in the Middle East will outlive the Bush presidency, the nation will be looking for a leader able to perform in a crisis.

Even more than his proven ability to perform under pressure, however, one thing that Giuliani may be able to do, that some other Republicans might not, is unite the country. If Bush, as amiable as he is, and with a reputation as a uniter as governor of Texas, could be painted as an extremist divider, it is reasonable to believe the same will be attempted with the next Republican candidate. Giuliani achieved giant stature in my eyes, and those of most other Americans, with his actions following 9/11.  Because he is already known as a uniter and a strong leader, he will be resistant to attempts to portray him otherwise. He can also claim to have received a large number of votes from Democrats in past elections.  Not many, if any, of the other potential Republican presidential candidates can say that.

Ironically, Giuliani's positions on abortion and gay rights, while making it more difficult for him to win the Republican primary, make it almost impossible for opponents to paint him as an extremist.  Abortion will always be an important issue to Republican primary voters, but with Bush appointments of two (or possibly three) conservative Supreme Court justices, the issue is not as likely to be the deal breaker that it has been in some past elections.  Choosing a pro-life running mate might be enough to win over enough pro-life Republican primary voters to capture the nomination.  He would definitely have to answer some tough questions about social policy (and he better not have any Bernie Kerik problems), but if he plays things smart, he can win the Republican nomination.

Electability though, while obviously necessary, does not a good president make. Giuliani's effectiveness as mayor of New York and his excellent communication skills convince me that he could be a very successful president. From his words and actions following 9/11, and more recently from his speech at the 2004 Republican National Convention, I know he can inspire. Because of Giuliani's staunch, and often eloquent, defense of President Bush’s policy in Iraq, and because of his personal experience on 9/11, I have no doubt that he would continue to vigorously prosecute the War on Terror and would be a strong defender of Israel and a promoter of democracy in the Middle East.

It is still early. I’m not saying Rudy Giuliani will be my choice in the spring of 2008. I’m just saying that in the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and with the mission in Iraq and the Middle East still far from over, “the world’s mayor” is looking pretty good right now.

Lorie Byrd lives in North Carolina where she worked as a litigation paralegal before becoming a stay-at-home to her two daughters six years ago. She has written on political matters at the group blog, Polipundit, since April 2004. She also writes at her own weblog, Byrd Droppings, and is currently a contributor at ConfirmThem.com and MediaSlander.com.

---

[Spiff]

Conservative Case Against Rudy Giuliani

by John Hawkins
Posted Aug 30, 2006 Rudy Giuliani, a contender for the presidency in 2008, is receiving an inordinate amount of positive attention. That's quite understandable since Rudy is charismatic, did a great job on the campaign trail for President Bush in 2004, and his phenomenal performance after 9/11 was much appreciated. However, likeable or not, having Rudy as the GOP's candidate in 2008 would be a big mistake. Here's a short, but sweet primer on some of Rudy's many flaws.

Rudy's Strong Pro-Abortion Stance

As these comments from a 1989 conversation with Phil Donahue show, Rudy Giuliani is staunchly in favor of abortion:

"I've said that I'll uphold a woman's right of choice, that I will fund abortion so that a poor woman is not deprived of a right that others can exercise, and that I would oppose going back to a day in which abortions were illegal.

I do that in spite of my own personal reservations. I have a daughter now; if a close relative or a daughter were pregnant, I would give my personal advice, my religious and moral views ...

Donahue: Which would be to continue the pregnancy.

Giuliani: Which would be that I would help her with taking care of the baby. But if the ultimate choice of the woman - my daughter or any other woman - would be that in this particular circumstance [if she had] to have an abortion, I'd support that. I'd give my daughter the money for it."

Worse yet, Giuliani even supports partial birth abortion:

"I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights,Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing," he responded." -- CNN.com, "Inside Politics" Dec 2, 1999

It's bad enough that Rudy is so adamantly pro-abortion, but consider what that could mean when it comes time to select Supreme Court Justices. Does the description of Giuliani that you've just read make you think he's going to select an originalist like Clarence Thomas, who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade -- or does it make you think he would prefer justices like Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy who'd leave Roe v. Wade in place?

Rudy's abortion stance is bad news for conservatives who are pro-life or who are concerned about getting originalist judges on the Supreme Court.

An Anti-Second Amendment Candidate

In the last couple of election cycles, 2nd Amendment issues have moved to the back burner mainly because even Democratic candidates have learned that being tagged with the "gun grabber" label is political poison.

Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani is a proponent of gun control who supported the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapon Ban.

Do Republicans really want to abandon their strong 2nd Amendment stance by selecting a pro-gun control nominee?

Soft on Gay Marriage

Other than tax cuts, the biggest domestic issue of the 2004 election was President Bush's support of a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as being between a man and a woman. Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani has taken a "Kerryesque" position on gay marriage.

Although Rudy, like John Kerry, has said that marriage should remain between a man and a woman, he also supports civil unions, "marched in gay-pride parades ...dressed up in drag on national television for a skit on Saturday Night Live (and moved in with a) wealthy gay couple" after his divorce. He also very vocally opposed running on a gay marriage amendment:

His thoughts on the gay-marriage amendment? "I don't think you should run a campaign on this issue," he told the Daily News earlier this month. "I think it would be a mistake for anybody to run a campaign on it -- the Democrats, the president, or anybody else."

Here's more from the New York Daily News:

"Rudy Giuliani came out yesterday against President Bush's call for a ban on gay marriage.

The former mayor, who Vice President Cheney joked the other night is after his job, vigorously defended the President on his post-9/11 leadership but made clear he disagrees with Bush's proposal to rewrite the Constitution to outlaw gays and lesbians from tying the knot.

"I don't think it's ripe for decision at this point," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

"I certainly wouldn't support [a ban] at this time," added Giuliani..."

Although Rudy may grudgingly say he doesn't support gay marriage (and it would be political suicide for him to do otherwise), where he really stands on the issue is an open question.

Pro-Illegal Immigration

As Tom Bevan of RealClearPolitics has pointed out, Rudy is an adherent of the same approach to illegal immigration that John McCain, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, and Harry Reid have championed:

"While McCain has taken heat for his support of comprehensive immigration reform, Rudy is every bit as pro-immigration as McCain - if not more so. On the O'Reilly Factor last week Giuliani argued for a "practical approach" to immigration and cited his efforts as Mayor of New York City to "regularize" illegal immigrants by providing them with access to city services like public education to "make their lives reasonable." Giuliani did say that "a tremendous amount of money should be put into the physical security" needed to stop the flow of illegal immigrants coming across the border, but his overall position on immigration is essentially indistinguishable from McCain's."

That's bad enough. But, as Michelle Malkin has revealed, under Giuliani, New York was an illegal alien sanctuary and "America's Mayor" actually sued the federal government in an effort to keep New York City employees from having to cooperate with the INS:

"When Congress enacted immigration reform laws that forbade local governments from barring employees from cooperating with the INS, Mayor Rudy Giuliani filed suit against the feds in 1997. He was rebuffed by two lower courts, which ruled that the sanctuary order amounted to special treatment for illegal aliens and were nothing more than an unlawful effort to flaunt federal enforcement efforts against illegal aliens. In January 2000, the Supreme Court rejected his appeal, but Giuliani vowed to ignore the law."

If you agree with the way that Nancy Pelosi and Company deal with illegal immigration, then you'll find the way that Rudy Giuliani tackles the issue to be right down your alley.

A More Charismatic Version of Arlen Specter

Rudy Giuliani may have many fine qualities, but he is not a conservative, nor has he always been a loyal Republican.

For example, back in the mid-nineties, when he was actually running New York City, Rudy could have fairly been said to have governed as a moderate at best and to the left-of-center at worst:

• "The National Journal’s rating system put him at 56 percent conservative and 44 percent liberal on economic issues in 1996 and assessed him as liberal by 59 to 40 percent in looking at his social issues votes."

The New York Observer also had a very interesting selection of quotes from and about Rudy over the years that may give his conservative supporters more than a little pause. Here are a few of those quotations:

• Some ask, How can the Liberal Party support a candidate who disagrees with the Liberal Party position on so many gut issues? But when the Liberal Party Policy Committee reviewed a list of key social issues of deep concern to progressive New Yorkers, we found that Rudy Giuliani agreed with the Liberal Party's stance on a majority of such issues. He agreed with the Liberal Party's views on affirmative action, gay rights, gun control, school prayer and tuition tax credits. As Mayor, Rudy Giuliani would uphold the Constitutional and legal rights to abortion. -- N.Y.S. Liberal Party Endorsement Statement of R. Giuliani for Mayor of New York City April 8, 1989

• Mr. Rockefeller represented "a tradition in the Republican Party I've worked hard to re-kindle - the Rockefeller, Javits, Lefkowitz tradition." -- Rudy Giuliani, New York Times, July 9, 1992

• What kind of Republican? Is [Giuliani], for instance, a Reagan Republican? [Giuliani] pauses before answering: "I'm a Republican." -- Village Voice, January 24, 1989

• "Shortly before his last-minute endorsement of Bob Dole in the 1996 presidential election, [Giuliani] told the Post's Jack Newfield that "most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." The Daily News quoted [Giuliani] as saying that March: "Whether you talk about President Clinton, Senator Dole.... The country would be in very good hands in the hands of any of that group."

• Revealing at one point that he was "open" to the idea of endorsing Clinton, he explained: "When I ran for mayor both times, '89 and '93, I promised people that I would be, if not bipartisan, at least open to the possibility of supporting Democrats." -- Rudy - An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Wayne Barrett, Page 459

• "From my point of view as the mayor of New York City, the question that I have to ask is, 'Who has the best chance in the next four years of successfully fighting for our interest? Who understands them, and who will make the best case for it?' Our future, our destiny is not a matter of chance. It's a matter of choice. My choice is Mario Cuomo." -- Rudy Giuliani: Emperor of the City, Andrew Kirtzman, Page 133

• "[Quite] frankly, you have to understand the fact that Rudy Giuliani was a McGovern Democrat, he was endorsed by the Liberal Party when he ran for Mayor. In his heart, he's a Democrat. He's paraded all over this country with Bill Clinton and, in fact, he's very comfortable with Mario Cuomo. But what Rudy Giuliani wants is to be bailed out in the city, in the mess he's in, and everybody understands very clearly in politics that they struck a deal, that Mario's going to continue to be the big spender, save Rudy the options of raising taxes by pouring money statewide into the City of New York and bailing it out. Quite frankly, I predict that he will join the Democratic Party." -- Interview with Michael Long, Chairman N.Y.S., Conservative Party, CNN Crossfire, October 25, 1994

Does this really sound like the sort of candidate we want as a standard bearer for the Republican Party?

He Can't Keep His Pants Up

There has only been one man who has ever made it to the White House after being divorced and that was Ronald Reagan, who had been married to Nancy for more than 25 years before his campaign in 1980. Rudy, on the other hand, is on his third wife.

Furthermore, his second divorce from Donna Hanover was extremely ugly. Hanover accused Rudy of "open and notorious adultery." She also claimed Rudy had an affair with a staffer, Christyne Lategano-Nicholas, which both Giuliani and Lategano-Nicholas denied. However, Rudy has acknowledged that he started seeing his current wife, Judith Nathan, before his divorce from Hanover was finalized in 2002.

Given how recent this divorce was, Rudy's adultery, and the fact that he married, "the other woman," the press can be expected to cover Rudy's marriage to Hanover exhaustively if he gets the nomination and needless to say, Rudy, quite deservedly, will not come off very well.

Does He Have The Judgment To Be President?

As you've just seen, Rudy hasn't necessarily made the best decisions in his personal life. Unfortunately, the Bernard Kerik incident shows that Giuliani's poor judgment can spill over into political matters as well.

Rudy recommended his friend and business partner, Bernard Kerik, for the position of Homeland Security Secretary and the Bush administration, perhaps because Rudy vouched for him, didn't do a very thorough job of vetting him.

Soon after Kerik's nomination became public, allegations surfaced that Kerik was having two simultaneous affairs, had ties to a construction company "linked to the mob," and had an illegal alien nanny whose taxes hadn't been paid. Under fire from the press, Kerik withdrew his name from consideration for the Homeland Security position and the Bush administration was left with egg on its face for putting up such a scandal ridden nominee.

While the whole debacle was embarrassing for the Bush Administration, it raised even more serious questions about Rudy. After all, if Bernard Kerik is the sort of person Rudy sees as an appropriate friend, business partner, and nominee to run the Homeland Security Department, it makes you wonder what kind of people he is surrounding himself with on a day to day basis.

How Electable Is Rudy Giuliani Really?

One of the biggest selling points for Rudy Giuliani is supposed to be that he's "electable" because a lot of independents and Democrats will vote for him. The problem with that sort of thinking is that if he becomes the Republican nominee, the very liberal mainstream media will spend nine months relentlessly savaging him in an effort to help the Democrats. Because of that, Giuliani's sky high polling numbers with non-Republicans are 100% guaranteed to drop significantly before election time rolls around in 2008.

That is not necessarily a problem; after all the mainstream media is always against the Republican nominee, if -- and this is a big "if" -- the GOP nominee has strong support from the Republican base.

The big problem Rudy has is that he isn't going to be able to generate that kind of support. For one thing, as a candidate, he offers almost nothing to social conservatives, without whom a victory for George Bush in 2004 wouldn't have been possible. If the choice in 2008 comes down to a Democrat and a pro-abortion, soft on gay marriage, left-of-center candidate on social issues -- like Rudy -- you can be sure that millions of "moral values voters" will simply stay home and cost the GOP the election.

The other issue is in the South. George Bush swept every Southern state in 2000 and 2004, which is quite an impressive feat when you consider that the Democrats had Southerner Al Gore at the top of the ticket in 2000 and John Edwards as the veep in 2004. Unfortunately, a pro-abortion, soft on gay marriage, pro-gun control RINO from New York City just isn't going to be able to repeat that performance. Even against a carpetbagger like Hillary Clinton, it's entirely likely that you'll see at least 2 or 3 states in the South turn from red to blue if Rudy Giuliani is the nominee.

Also, the reason why George Bush's approval numbers have been mired in the high thirties/low forties of late is because he has lost a significant amount of Republican support, primarily because his domestic policies aren't considered conservative enough. Since that's the case, running a candidate who is several steps to Bush's left on domestic policy certainly doesn't seem like a great way to unite the base again.

Conclusion

Despite all of his charisma and the wonderful leadership he showed after 9/11, Rudy Giuliani is not a Reagan Republican. To the contrary, Giuliani is another Christie Todd Whitman, another Arlen Specter, another Olympia Snowe. He's a throwback to the "bad old days" before Reagan, when the GOP was run by moderate Country Club Republicans who considered conservatives to be extremists. Trying to revive that failed strategy again is likely to lead to a Democratic President in 2008 and numerous setbacks for the Republican Party.

[Spiff]

The Real Rudy Giuliani:

• Pro-abortion - He even opposes banning partial birth murder.
• Anti-2nd Amendment - supports gun grabbing legislation including the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapon Ban
• Pro-big government - amassed unprecedented debt as Mayor of NYC
• Pro-radical gay agenda
  

  - Attended and marched in every gay pride parade in NYC while mayor (even one in 1992 that included a NAMBLA contingent of pedophile activists)
  - Attends and supports many functions and fund-raisers held by radical gay organizations (even did a cross dressing act at Pride Agenda fund-raiser)
  - Openly opposes Constitutional Amendment to protect tradition marriage which is supported by President Bush and the Republican Party Platform.
  - Supported "domestic partner" and "civil union" bills in City Council while mayor of NYC.
  - Submitted Gay "Domestic-Partner" Rights Bill to City Council giving gay and lesbian couples the same benefits reserved for married couples.
  - Said, "I'm proud of it" when referring to the gay "domestic partner" bill he submitted. Said, "National Republicans can lump it if they don't like this new domestic-partners bill...I think it puts New York City ahead of other places in the country."
  - Has received awards from several radical gay agenda organizations who support gay marriage for his support of their cause. Is considered a "champion" of gay "rights."
  - Lived with a gay "married" couple in Manhattan when he moved out of Gracie Mansion during his second divorce.
  - Said that homosexuality is "good and normal"
  

• Pro-illegal immigration - said no one in New York City is going to assist the federal government with the enforcement of immigration law, sued Feds in 1997 to be able to ignore immigration law, lost in court, vowed to ignore law anyway
• Endorses liberal Democrat candidates over Republicans - endorsed liberal Dem Mario Cuomo over Republican George Pataki in NY Governor's race
• Ran for NYC Mayor in 1994 on Liberal Party ticket. Appointed Liberal Party State Chair to a Deputy Mayor position. Endorsed 3 times by the Liberal Party for his liberal views.
• Holds many other liberal views
• Republican In Name Only - opposes many major planks of the GOP Platform

Read more about Giuliani's liberal positions here and here.

Some people want Republicans to ignore his liberalism on almost every issue and, as a distraction, they try to pretend that Rudy is fiscally conservative. Again, his record shows that he isn't fiscally conservative either:

According to an article in The Nation from 2002:

It's now apparent that Giuliani purchased the city's good times partially with borrowed money and left his successor, Mike Bloomberg, holding a bag of debt. New York City went from a $3 billion budget surplus in 1998 to a $4.5 billion deficit after Giuliani left office. This mismanagement of prosperity is a big part of his legacy. Giuliani left the city's finances in a mess...

Here are some things Giuliani did as Mayor that were NOT anywhere near being fiscally conservative:

• New York City went from a $3 billion budget surplus in 1998 to a $4.5 billion deficit after Giuliani left office.
  
• Added 25,000 government employees patronage hires to the city's payroll after promising to cut the work force.
  
• Giuliani's borrowing practices increased the city's debt burden by 50 percent.
  
• Partly because of Giuliani, New York City is now the biggest debtor in the nation outside of the federal government with $42 billion in loans outstanding.
  

According to the article from The Nation:

During the 1960s Giuliani was a self-described "Robert Kennedy Democrat." He identified with RFK as a liberal Catholic prosecutor. He volunteered for RFK's 1968 presidential campaign while he was a student at NYU Law School. Giuliani also voted for George McGovern in 1972. During the liberal 1960s, he was a liberal.

But in 1975 Giuliani switched his party registration from Democrat to Independent when he got a job in Gerald Ford's Justice Department, according to his mentor Harold "Ace" Tyler.

On December 8, 1980, Giuliani changed his registration from Independent to Republican. This was one month after Ronald Reagan's election, and just as he was applying for a top job in the Justice Department.

So, to sum that up:

• Liberal Democrat until 1975
• Worked as volunteer for Democrat Robert F. Kennedy's presidential campaign.
• Voted for liberal George McGovern.
• Liberal Independent from 1975-1980.
• Did not register as a Republican until 1980 and only AFTER Ronald Reagan was elected and because he was applying for a top job in the administration.

He's a liberal. He's not even in the same building as conservative. He's only a Republican because...and this comes from his own mother, Helen Giuliani:

"He only became a Republican after he began to get all these jobs from them. He's definitely not a conservative Republican. He thinks he is, but he isn't..."

And as John Hawkins put it in an excellent article in Human Events:

Despite all of his charisma and the wonderful leadership he showed after 9/11, Rudy Giuliani is not a Reagan Republican. To the contrary, Giuliani is another Christie Todd Whitman, another Arlen Specter, another Olympia Snowe. He's a throwback to the "bad old days" before Reagan, when the GOP was run by moderate Country Club Republicans who considered conservatives to be extremists. Trying to revive that failed strategy again is likely to lead to a Democratic President in 2008 and numerous setbacks for the Republican Party.

[Beagle8U]

"The former mayor is a moderate who supports gun control, same-sex civil unions, embryonic stem-cell research and abortion rights — stands that would put him at odds with the majority of the GOP conservative base."

a moderate who supports gun control, same-sex civil unions, embryonic stem-cell research and abortion rights?

Which makes him an unelectable liberal turd that was afraid to run against Hildabeast in this past election because he knew he would lose.

[SWAMPSNIPER]

Not just no, HELL NO!

[nosofar]

Pro-abortion, pro gay agenda, anti-second amendment with a very sketchy personal life.

What matters is if he's so obsessed with this that he want to do something about them. If he's in favor of pushing all this to the states and he's willing to nominate decent conservative judges, I have no problem with it.

[zbigreddogz]

Argue against Giuliani if you want, I'm not planning on supporting him, but argue in a way that doesn't make you look like a moron.

Saying Giuliani is like Dole is like saying a 2006 Corvett is like a 1976 Toyota.

[GinaLolaB]

As an Upstate New Yorker, I remember when Giuiani endorsed Mario Cuomo over Pataki and when he came into town with Mario, many Republicans were waiting at the airport with a change of voter registration card.

[politicket]

If Rudy is the 2008 Republican presidential candidate then my family and I will not only NOT vote for him, but will ACTIVELY recruit others to not vote for him either.

He has no evident moral foundation that I can see.

Are you listening Republican party???

In our state of Colorado, all of the Republicans took a beating EXCEPT for those that entered their race clinging to strong Christian principles!

We succeeded in keeping Tom Tancredo, Marilyn Musgrave, and bringing Doug Lamborn to the U.S. Congress.

[M203M4]

"Someone who now voted to roll back the assault-weapons ban would really be demonstrating that special-interest politics mean more to them than life-or-death issues."

And when AWB expired, Rudy was one of the few who denounced it. Maybe he has moved past that infantile stage of life since then.

[lowbridge]

argue in a way that doesn't make you look like a moron.

Now thats just flat out impossible

Saying Giuliani is like Dole is like saying a 2006 Corvett is like a 1976 Toyota.

I didnt say that Giuliani is like Dole. I said that he will go down like Dole.

[Mia T]

[Giuliani] is a born and bred big city--JCEccles

 

That is an ASSET, not a liability
The GOP wimpiness problem is partly a geographic issue--way too few gritty urban types in the ranks.

From earlier today. We were contrasting the Bush family's Marquis of Queensbury aesthetic with the Left's guerrilla-terrorist tactics. (Stallone's stark characterization):

I'm not so sure 'street fighter' is an acquired taste.

The Bushies' turn-the-other-cheek refinement and politesse may in fact be genetic, quaint relics of a different time and a different war.

The problem may be geographic as well: There are far too few people on the Right from the gritty urban center....

Mia T, A HILLARY 'LANDSLIDE'??? NOT SO FAST, MISSUS CLINTON....

P.S. I like Romney, too. I think both men would be great, and a Giuliani/Romney ticket would be unbeatable.

[lowbridge]

I remember when Giuiani endorsed Mario Cuomo over Pataki

I recall that as well. And he waited untill late into the race to pull that stunt. Only a week or two before the elecion. As it turned out, Cuomo promised Rudy a whole bunch of taxpayer paid goodies in return for that endorsement. Which goes to show that Rudy can be bought with liberal promises of pork.

[Beagle8U]

Dole lost an election, but I'm sure Rudy would "go down"./sarc

[samm1148]

Wait I'm confused; Rudy can run even though he is divorced but Newt Gingrich is damaged goods for the same reason? Yeah run another compassionate conservative/liberal light. At this rate the republican party will be out of power for the next two decades.

[motife]

Republicans Should Stay Optimistic and On Offense
By Rudy Giuliani


RealClear Politics, Nov 5 -

For the past six months, I've been traveling across the country campaigning for Republican candidates. Conventional wisdom from Washington predicts a tough year for the party. By playing offense, solidifying our ranks and reaching out to Reagan Democrats and Independents, I believe that Republicans have reason to be optimistic. Because on the big issues Americans care about - from national security to the economy to the Supreme Court - Republican leadership has delivered time and again on its promises.

Republicans are united by our belief in going on offense to win the war on terror. Five years ago, our nation learned a painful lesson about the dangers of an inconsistent approach to dealing with the evil of terrorism. In his speech to Congress on September 20th, 2001, President Bush declared that we would go on offense against terrorists, and he has made good on that promise. Terrorists have been destabilized and put on defense around the world - including Afghanistan and Iraq.

Americans should remember the positive impact of tax cuts on our economy. Most Republicans agree with Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush that tax cuts are a powerful stimulus to the economy - that's why I cut taxes 23 times as Mayor of New York. Most Democrats disagree with that philosophy - it's an honest disagreement. But let's look at the results: Today, we have a 4.4% unemployment rate in our country - lower than the average in the 70's, 80's and 90's. The stock market recently hit 12,000 - an all-time high. And the lower tax rate is generating more revenue than the higher rate did before - $250 billion more than last year. Republicans stand for lower taxes; Democrats stand for higher taxes - it's as simple as that.

Finally, let's look at the Republican record on judges. Supreme Court Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito are models of what judges should be in this country. They are principled individuals who can be trusted to defend the original intent of the Constitution rather than trying to legislate their own political beliefs from the bench. The successful appointments of Justices Roberts and Alito are signs of promises kept.

But there is still more work to do: more promises that need to be kept.

When I talk to people across America, I hear their frustration with the gridlock and scandals from Washington. As a former U.S. Attorney, I spent much of my career bringing corrupt government officials from both parties to justice. Neither party has a monopoly on virtue or vice - but we do have legitimate differences in terms of our ideas and vision for the future. And those principled differences should guide Americans' decisions on Election Day.

The people I've been talking with on the campaign trail want to see government get serious about fiscal discipline by cutting wasteful spending. American families want to see a revitalized education system with accountability, putting the focus on the students, increased school choice and higher standards, so that the United States can continue to be economically competitive throughout the 21st Century. They want us to do more to secure our borders while working to ensure that the virtues of legal immigration and assimilation are respected. They want us to move more aggressively toward greater energy independence.

But of course, the most important piece of unfinished business facing the nation is winning the war on terror.

In the era of President Truman and President Eisenhower, people used to say that "Partisan politics should end at the waters' edge." But lately some influential political voices seem to have forgotten this American tradition. The war on terror is not about "red" versus "blue" states - it is about right versus wrong; it is about good overcoming evil.

That's why these mid-term elections are so important. That's why we can't turn back. That is why Republicans need to solidify our ranks while reaching out with confidence. Because the issues that unite us as Republicans are the same issues that unite the vast majority of Americans: a commitment to winning the war on terror; a core belief in fiscal conservatism; and a faith in individual freedom. Advancing these principles, while staying on offense, can help keep the GOP a strong majority party in the United States

[Tanniker Smith]

Go Rudy! Knock McCain out of the race!!!

That said, if he gets the nod, I'm afraid that he'll lose New York to Hillary, and that would be a damn shame.

And the South would go third party, which will give Hillary the landslide.

[motife]

The Midwest, Northeast is slowly but surely slipping permanently into Democrat Blue for electoral votes.
Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, New Jersey may be permanently lost.

Iowa, Ohio, New Hampshire, Missouri, New Mexico are VERY dubious. Even Colorado is slipping away.

The electorate in the above states is really majority conservative regarding low taxes, reduced spending, limited government, pro-growth, pro-Israel and anti-Islamofascist and has its home in the GOP, NOT with the Democrats.

The GOP needs to LEAD with the issues that attract the rust belt voters who should be voting Republican, issues which are consistent with a government that LEAVES PEOPLE ALONE and doesn't preach to them.

I am not a member of the fundamentalist right, although I am a Christian. I think that bottom line, some of the fundamentalist hot button issues are "quixotic". Work for these values in your community. How are they issues that Congress and the President, the Federal government should be sticking its nose in?

Look at South Dakota. What happened to the abortion referendum there? If it can't win in S.D., where can it win?

As for 2nd amendment issues, if anti-gun laws are passed that are unconstitutional, the Supreme Court will overturn it. I don't see the big paranoia here as something where there no compromises can be made.

Giuliani supports an originalist court, as a former prosecutor, his ideal justice is Antony Scalia, and he's praised John Roberts and Sam Alito as judges he would appoint. What else can the fundamentalist right ask for in a candidate as far as practical action?

The GOP needs to come to grips with losing MN, WI, OH, PA, NJ, NH, IA, NM, MO, CO, and MI or ALL will soon be lost.

Rudy Giuliani is a candidate who has great promise of turning those states red again on a consistent basis, and not with a "me-too" Republicanism of Arnold Schwarzenegger or of the 1950's and 1960's country club GOP of Evertt Dirksen and Gerald Ford, but with true Reaganite policies across the spectrum of issues that make the GOP the Less Government/ More Freedom party.

I'm an extremely conservative libertarian hawk. BECAUSE I am so extreme I'm determined to WIN in the long term and to create a PERMANENT majority with a conservative message that also sells/ suceeds.

Now is not the time to play around.

Hillary Clinton could easily win every state Kerry did, with Iowa, New Mexico, and Colorado on top. Don't underestimate her.

[OmegaMan]

I have to wonder if he's thinking that his way to the White House is through the VP slot. I guess he figures if he has any chance of being picked for VP he will have to keep his name in the news by running for President.

I dont like his gun control stance, but Im ok with all his other positions. Id be very happy with him being the nominee.

[JMack]

This election, we saw uprecedented divisiveness in our party. We even had Freepers saying they wouldn't vote. We here are the Hard Core Believers, people. We always vote against liberal treason.

When Freepers of all people start to say they won't oppose Liberal traitors, we have a problem. I am not sure even Immigration provokes the ire of Guiliani on this site. If Freepers can't decide between him and Hillary, there is no way he can win as a Republican in the turnout based elections of today. How can anyone believe an average Republican will vote for him if even some hard-core Freepers won't?

If this election taught us anything, it is that when a person here on this site says, "I won't vote", they may very well be a moron and an a$$hole, but the fact they are saying that is a fact on the ground which must be confronted and considered, if we are to prevail, as we must, for the future of this country.

Guiliani's candidacy is dead. Lets find somebody who doesn't make people here say, "If it were him vs Hillary, I wouldn't vote."

[ShawTaylor]

hes far from perfect but Id rather have him than McLame or Hitlerly


I agree.
Was looking at Allen before, but right now Giuliani is looking like a guy that can hammer Hitlery in 2008.
McPain has to be avoided if at all possible.
However, if it came to an election between Hitlery and McPain, I will simply have to hold my nose really hard, and vote McPain. The thought of that witch in he House House simply sends shivers down me spine.

[packrat35]

The Republicans better come up with somebody for 2008 besides McCain, Guillani, or Newt Gingrich. Unless we just want to surrender to the democrats like in 1996 with Bob Dole.

All 3 of these have been pushed as good candidates but all come with so much baggage that a large part of the Republican base will not vote.

McCain - Keating Five, think we won't hear it. Plus hes insane. Lots of folks can't stand him period, no matter what the media and his fans here at FR say.

Guillani - cheats on wife, pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, anti-gun and people HERE on FR are actually pushing this guy. By 2008, it will have been 7 years since 9/11 and hes been out of the public eye too long. The tales of the heroic mayor will be ancient history. Plus he choked and dropped out of running against Hillary twice.

Gingrich - cheats on not one, but two wives. That'll get the base going TO STAY HOME. Plus the book deal and other general crap, plus he choked and then quit also. Been out of politics too long. He has some good ideas but does anyone really think he is electable nationwide?

[WhistlingPastTheGraveyard]

What matters is if he's so obsessed with this that he want to do something about them.

I'm not concerned with Giuliani doing anything, per se, about any of the issues mentioned. I'm worried about the leftward slide of the GOP should it choose to place a man with those values at the head of the party.

When the GOP moves left, the goal lines shift, and the Dems will move further left (they want absolute power, not shared power in a consensus centrist government).

If we go left, America goes left. I regard that a disastrous thing for our country and its future.

[surrey]

If Rudy is the candidate and you sit it out....Hello, Hillary. Would you rather have her as the CIC? Not me.

[NYC Republican]

Hillary would CRUSH Rudy in NY. Wouldn't even be a contest... This thread's soooo for you! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1643972/posts