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Al-Qaeda 'planning for nuclear attack'
The Scotsman ^ | November 14, 2006 | Staff

Posted on 11/13/2006 11:51:01 PM PST by MadIvan

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To: MadIvan

This is absolutely no surprise. So when it happens, they will blame it on Bush, Iraq, oppression, Israel. They will not put the blame where it belongs.

51 posted on 11/14/2006 6:11:56 AM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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Followed by the outlawing and eradication of all Muslim fanatics (and anyone we think was in conspiracy/collusion with them)...

52 posted on 11/14/2006 6:13:49 AM PST by wodinoneeye
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To: angcat

It's not just you, trust me.

53 posted on 11/14/2006 6:22:18 AM PST by JZelle
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To: Former Proud Canadian
Sorry, I agree with the late great General LeMay.

Oh, I'm not speaking against a nuclear approach. When I say I'm not part of the "nuke 'em all" crowd, I mean I'm not part of that small but vocal group of Freepers who think our only hope is to just send the nukes flying right now.

Can MAD work with Islam? Well, those of us who believe in the trheat often say that at least 10% of them are al-Qaeda sympathizing radicals, which means an aenemy force of 100 million. But if the Osama radicals are vastly in the minority (10, 20 or 30% of Muslims) then they can be "outvoted" by the rest of them with the right motivation. For example, if the people of Iran were told, "If you develop an operational nuke we will make nuclear wa on your country immediately," they might have a revolt.

This is all dengerous stuff, but then again, human civilization is endangered at this moment. We need to press forward on all fronts, from military to cultural, and an atomic powered Big Stick may solve the problem or buy us time to get other methods to work.

54 posted on 11/14/2006 7:27:01 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Welcome swingers! Pull up a groove and get fabulous!)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Your scenario is chilling and spot on. The mohammedan cultists would be targets of violence and their cult centers razed. The mohammedans would demand to be protected and the only way to do that would be to put them in protective camps. If any cult leaders survive the initial violence they should be held in a separate protective camp far away from their factions fervent followers.

Yes, the cube would have to be vaporized. War, as you say, is war.

55 posted on 11/14/2006 7:30:04 AM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Brilliant
>Don't worry... Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid will protect us.

Don't worry! Friendly
ALIENS from outer space
are protecting us!

"As we have stated in the past, we were given an exception to the rule of non-interference to prevent WMD from being planted in Iraq, to prevent false terrorism attacks within the US, and to prevent the 1957 bird flu virus from being planted around the world by US and British intelligence agencies. We have, obviously, been granted yet another exception in order to counter voter fraud in the US. ...

Do the Zetas have any comments on the recent threat from Al Qaeda to blowup the white house?

"They haven't a prayer. We are stopping real terrorism within the US as well as the hundreds of attempts by Bush Co to effect false terror within the US."

ZetaTalk: GodlikeProduction Live written Nov 11, 2006

56 posted on 11/14/2006 7:37:17 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: MadIvan

This report is obviously mistaken.

Nancy Pelosi, John Murtha, Charles Rangel,, have told us we are now safer because of the election.

57 posted on 11/14/2006 7:39:53 AM PST by twntaipan (Mad about new taxes coming your way from the dhimmicrats in Congress? Thank your local libertarian.)
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To: twntaipan
I suspect Al Qaeda are going to time their attack in such a way as to hurt the Republicans the most.

The Democrats help Al Qaeda - not only are they soft on defence, they also promote the immorality (i.e. sanctioning "gay marriage") that gives red meat to the mullahs.

Regards, Ivan

58 posted on 11/14/2006 7:48:56 AM PST by MadIvan (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: Mr. Silverback
"...But if the Osama radicals are vastly in the minority (10, 20 or 30% of Muslims) then they can be "outvoted" by the rest of them with the right motivation."

I don't think you understand this mohammedan cult. It is not a "Democracy" it is "Totalitarian" there is no vote. This cults doctrin is to spread their totaltarian views throughout the world by use of violence.

Beware of them! They will lie to you, tell you what they think you want to hear then turn their violence on you when they have you appeased.
59 posted on 11/14/2006 7:52:04 AM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Red_Devil 232
I don't think you understand this mohammedan cult. It is not a "Democracy" it is "Totalitarian" there is no vote. This cults doctrin is to spread their totaltarian views throughout the world by use of violence.

Such things were written about the Japanese in 1942, but between your Devil Dogs and my beloved strategic bomber force, they became a pacifist nation. The question is not whether it can be done, but whether deterrence can do it or a few Hiroshimas--or a hundred--are necessary.

Consider this: If deterrence works, Islam becomes what Shinto is now. If deterrence is simply impossible, every religious site and major urban area in the Islamic world gets wiped out. Either way, there is no mass movement of violent cultists when we're finished.

I'm not sure it can work, and the problem is that we would probably need a major attack before we could get any politician to sign on. But if your answer is to fire up the ICBMs right now, we cannot do it. No one will sign on for genocide.

60 posted on 11/14/2006 8:41:54 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Welcome swingers! Pull up a groove and get fabulous!)
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To: Mr. Silverback
This is the text of a speech Sen. Rick Santorum (R., Pa.) delivered at the National Press Club Thursday, July 06.

It is a long post. To bad every voter was not required to read it before voting last week.

The Great Test of This Generation Naming and defeating the enemy, Islamic fascism.

When I came to Washington in 1990 Karen and I were expecting our first child. Like most Americans we were worried about a slowing economy, competition from Japan and the high deficit. But we were also relieved by the end of the Cold War and talk of a peace dividend. In the 1990s I felt my job representing Pennsylvania in Congress was important, but in retrospect the issues confronting us were not relative to what we are confronted with today. In 16 years Karen and I have been blessed with the privilege and responsibility of raising six children. Like most Americans we are more concerned about the future of our country. Now most of you would expect me to launch into my oft written speeches about culture, the family, and children. Not today. No today the biggest issue facing our children's future is a war. Not, as so many describe it, the War on Terror. Not the war in Iraq or Afghanistan . But the world war, which at its heart is just like the previous three global struggles. In those wars we fought against European tyrants and their allies, from the Kaiser to Hitler to Lenin, Stalin, and their heirs. We fought them because we knew that our survival was at stake. The tyrants would never stop attacking until they had defeated us, or we had defeated them. Our only choices – choices imposed on us, not chosen by us – were either winning or losing, because there was no way out. We are in the same kind of conflict today. Some say we are fighting a War on Terror. That is like saying World War II was a war on blitzkrieg. Terror like blitzkrieg is a tactic used by our enemy, not the enemy itself. In World War II we fought Nazism and Japanese imperialism. Today, we are fighting against Islamic fascists. They attacked us on September 11th because we are the greatest obstacle to their openly declared mission of subjecting the entire world to their fanatical rule. I believe that the threat of Islamic fascism is just as menacing as the threat from Nazism and Soviet Communism. Now, as then, we face fanatics who will stop at nothing to dominate us. Now, as then, there is no way out; we will either win or lose. Too many people talk about this war as if it were simply an attempt to create fledgling democracies in Iraq and Afghanistan . But Iraq and Afghanistan are battlefields in a much broader war, which now includes every continent except Antarctica . Ask the Indians, the Thais, the Egyptians or the Argentines. Ask the Australians, the Indonesians, the British or the Spaniards. All have seen Islamic fascists at work, and have mourned their innocent victims. Islamic fascists have been waging this war against us for a very long time. It did not suddenly erupt on a sunny September day in 2001. Al Qaeda and other such groups had been attacking American targets for decades. A group of Islamic fascists attacked the United States directly, at the World Trade Center, a month into Bill Clinton's first term. So why is it so hard for so many Americans to see the nature of this war? It's not because the enemy is keeping the hostile objectives a secret. Every major Islamic fascist leader, from heads of states to heads of al Qaeda and Hizbollah, has openly identified the United States as their prime target, and repeatedly promises the creation of a new, global, "caliphate" where Islamic fascism will rule mankind. This language comes from both Sunni and Shi'ite fanatics, whether Arab, Persian, Indonesian, American, or British. And yet we are foolishly reluctant to come to terms with this terrible reality. It's an old, sad story isn't it? Over and over again, our enemies announce their intention to attack us, and we refuse to believe them. Hardly anyone took Mein Kampf seriously and when Nikita Khrushchev pounded his shoe on the table at the U.N., announcing, "We will bury you," it was widely treated as a moment of comic relief. If we have learned anything from the twentieth century, it should be this lesson: when leaders say they are prepared to kill millions of people to achieve their goals, we must take them at their word. Particularly in this case when the enemy sees dying for their cause as a desired objective as opposed to a tragic consequence. But we have not learned that lesson. I submit as evidence of that fact the recent publications of top secret intelligence programs. If we really believed that the Islamic fascists were a real threat to the future of our country, we would not be screaming and hollering about how our government is tracking terrorists' money, and monitoring their telephone conversations. Instead we'd be screaming and hollering that these programs are being compromised. So why do we choose not to recognize and respect the threat our enemy poses? I think in part because it makes us feel vulnerable. This is not just happening someplace thousands of miles away. The enemy is doing his utmost to kill us, because of who we are, wherever we are, at home or overseas. That's why, we urgently need good intelligence: The best way to protect us is to know where and how the enemy is planning to strike. That is hard enough, but we also want to do it without unduly compromising our cherished freedoms – including our privacy. We have worked very hard to provide security without compromising liberty. Some leaders saw political advantage in disputing that fact. The result, for one thing a four-year misinformation campaign directed against the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act gave federal agents who investigate national security threats like terrorism; the same types of legal authority FBI agents investigating ordinary crimes have had for decades. Along with improved intelligence and military successes in the Middle East, the Patriot Act is a big factor in why we have not had another domestic attack since 9/11. And yet, we supporters of the Patriot Act had to fight tooth and nail to get those powers renewed. Even worse, there has been a war against the war: a joint campaign by some people inside the government and allies in the media to undermine critical national security programs. To their shame, the bureaucrats have broken the law by revealing classified information to some in the media. Again, to their shame, some members of the media have put American lives at greater risk by publishing these secrets. Before 9/11 we were fighting with 20th Century tools. Our national security surveillance activities were governed by a law that had been enacted in 1978 – before anyone knew what email was. It did not permit the speed and flexibility needed to identify, and quickly survey, previously unknown threats. We paid a price: in thousands of American lives. America in 2001 said that had to change, so we designed a program to intercept our enemy's international communications, including those that crossed into or out of our country. The program didn't monitor all Americans, or calls wholly inside the United States . It involved only people reasonably suspected of working with the enemy. It was a valuable program. The program may well have prevented domestic terror attacks. Then it was leaked to the press, and it was published. The enemy was thereby given important insights into our capabilities. That story has made it more difficult for us to gather precisely the kind of information we have to have if we are going to thwart future attacks against civilians in America and soldiers on the battlefield. The same thing happened with financial intelligence. In Belgium, there was a little known hub for international money transfers – a sort of clearinghouse, known as SWIFT, overseen by major national banks in Europe, Japan, and our own Federal Reserve. We got its cooperation to track terrorist transactions. This was a very well designed program. Terrorists had come to believe that whenever we found bundles of their money, we seized it. But in this case, we were wise and patient. We were watching the funds rather than grabbing them. I like to think of the money we didn't seize as an investment in good intelligence, and it was working. We were mapping the tentacles of terrorist networks. The information helped nab a guy called Hambali in Thailand – one of the world's most notorious terrorists – and it helped us identify an al Qaeda facilitator here in the United States who was later convicted of providing material support for terrorism. The program was completely legal, and the administration, like the previous program, notified members of Congress from both parties and agreed to extraordinary auditing to make sure the information was only used to pursue the enemy. The details of this excellent program were published despite the entreaties of government officials and private citizens with great expertise, such as the two ranking members of the 9/11 Commission. Once again, a vital intelligence tool was compromised. It will be hard to win this war if people inside the government violate their oaths and provide information to irresponsible members of the media, who then provide our enemy with information that hurts our country. But, important as they are, these intelligence and legal issues are only part of our challenge. There is a bigger problem: our fear of speaking clearly, publicly, and consistently about the enemy. It is unfashionable in some quarters to speak about the Islamo fascists, because of the misguided cultural reflex that condemns anyone who speaks critically about others' practices or beliefs. Therefore, we can't say or do anything that might offend Muslims. But that's backwards. The real offense to Muslims is to remain silent about an ideology that produces the systemic murder of innocents. Mostly, Muslim innocents. They are the first victims of Islamic fascism, and the enemy directly targets them, as we have heard once again in the most recent audiotape from Osama bin Laden. Those who refuse to criticize Islamic fascism undermine the cause of freedom of religion because if the Islamic fascists win this war, no other religion will be permitted to flourish. Paradoxically, when we refuse to criticize anybody, we end up patronizing everyone, which is offensive to everyone and self-defeating. It makes a mockery of freedom of speech, and traps us in the discredited nonsense of moral equivalence. This war is not between two morally equivalent sides; it's a war between brutal totalitarian fascism and freedom. Our freedom, not just freedom for Iraqis and Afghans. We are the fascists' prime target, and they intend to impose a brutal tyranny on those of us who survive their onslaught. Islamic fascism is the great test of this generation. When we fail to fully grasp the nature of our enemy and the urgency of our victory, our own people become confused and divided, and the fascists are encouraged to believe that we're afraid of them. This has to stop. We have an obligation as leaders to articulate exactly what this threat is, and to defeat it. The American people have always rallied to the cause of freedom, once they understood what was at stake. We had no problem branding communism an evil empire – it was. We had no problem understanding that Nazism and fascism were evil racist empires – they were. We must now bring the same clarity to the war against Islamic fascism. I recently had the great pleasure of sharing a podium with Natan Sharansky, who refused to be silent in the face of Soviet Communism, and eventually celebrated its downfall. He told me about the surge of hope that went through the Soviet gulag when President Reagan delivered his "evil empire" speech because the dissidents locked in the terrible Gulag realized that the leader of the United States understood their plight, and was determined to bring down their oppressors. Brave men like Sharansky understand, far better than politicians or journalists or college professors, the importance of a proper moral calculus, and the paralyzing effect of misguided moral equivalence. If we do not recognize that it is right and proper for us to defend our freedom against Islamic fascism, we may well lose this war. The terrorists know that they cannot win on the battlefield against our armed men and women, and so their strategy is aimed at you. With every ied and with every suicide bomber they seek to break our will to fight, to get us to hang our heads and finally say "enough." And they will not stop coming after us until we stop them. This is a truly modern war – a war fought not just on the battlefield, but on the Internet, a war decided less by armies and warplanes than by individuals making individual choices. Individual Iranians, like Akbar Ganji, have defied the regime of the mullahs – and spoken out for freedom and democracy in Iran at the risk of their lives, as have other Muslims throughout the Middle East. Brave Iraqis, like Mithal al-Alusi, have suffered the murder of their children as they speak out for peace, democracy, and reconciliation. Terror plots are defeated every day – one was just foiled in Toronto – because patriotic Western Muslims volunteer to penetrate terror cells to protect us all. But individuals also make bad choices. Journalists made bad choices when they decided to betray the secret of our terrorist surveillance programs, our programs for tracking terrorist finances, and the location of the prisons in which al Qaeda's most senior leaders are held. Democrats in Congress make bad choices when they urge the president to withdraw our forces from Iraq before the war there is won. And as you all know, this fall the voters of our country have a choice to make. One vision sees the role of Congress as raising objections – finding reasons not to do things – and punishing those who take risks to defend our nation. I have a different vision. I want Congress to contribute to victory – not just complain about how long things are taking. And I believe that a member of Congress, especially a United States Senator, has a duty to think independently and speak clearly – not to evade, not to mumble. As some of you may know, I am running for re-election. My opponent says that a senator should ask tough questions. But I don't think, “How soon can we quit?” is a tough question. I believe a senator has a responsibility to lead with positive solutions, as I have done with the Syria Accountability Act and the Iran Freedom and Support Act. Which brings us to Iran. The fascist regimes and the Jihadist organizations disagree about some things, but they have a common theme: destroy the West and its leader, America. They comprise a mosaic of different entities and countries. The largest piece of this mosaic, the keystone of the Islamic fascist structure, is Iran. It's a complex mosaic, stretching across the world, but Iran is the central piece, touching all the others in one way or another. Iran not only supports these organizations – it created Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, and is the driving force behind Hamas – but it is a threat to the civilized world all by itself. This is no secret. Iran is at the top of the State Department's list of countries that support international terrorism, and we Americans know with great sadness how accurate that assessment is. Right after the Islamic Revolution in late 1979, a gang assaulted the American Embassy in Tehran and held American diplomats hostage for more than a year. In April, 1983, Iranian-supported suicide terrorists killed 60 people in our embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, and six months later 241 U.S. Marines were killed in a similar attack. Former FBI Director Louis Freeh has been explicit about the Iranian role in the savage attack against the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia , and, although it is not often noticed, Iranian so-called U.N. diplomats are regularly asked to leave New York City when they are found photographing subway stations and railroad bridges. Indeed, in its 1998 – 1998 – indictment of Osama bin Laden, the Government of the United States made it all very clear: “Al Qaeda...forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezballah for the purpose of working together against their perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States.” It is therefore no surprise to see Iran actively engaged in support of the terrorists in Iraq, Gaza, and Lebanon. The well-known accounts of Iranian activity inside Iraq extend from the recent reports of captured Iranian terrorists and intelligence officers, to the stories, from American and British military officials, of especially lethal mines and roadside bombs of Iranian origin. We have seen Iranian missiles fired at Israeli ships off Lebanon and at Israeli civilians in their homes. Iran reaches into Latin America, in the form of a strategic alliance with the Venezuelan tyrant. It also shows us the ease with which Islamic fascists work with radical leftists. We see this in some of the anti-American demonstrations in Europe. We see it in the cooperation between North Korea and Iran with their rocket and nuclear programs. Just think about that for a minute: fanatical Muslims working hand in glove with fanatical leftists, bound together by hatred for us. The current public face of Iranian fascism is of course its president, Ahmadi-Nezhad. This is a man who recruited thousands of Iranian children to march to their death by detonating mines in advance of Iranian troops during the Iran/Iraq War. He is truly representative of the face of Islamic fascism in Tehran. When he speaks of destroying Israel and the infidels, it is not his voice alone. In such a regime, no one speaks without the approval of the ruling mullahs, so Ahmadi-Nezhad's words are canonical. He has told us over and over again that he believes in the imminent arrival of the Shi'ite messiah, the so-called 12th Imam, who Shi'ites believe will return at the end time. What will cause this arrival? According to Ahmadi-Nezhad, a victory of extremist Islam over the infidels and crusaders. That would be us. He is working to hasten that final confrontation, and he, along with other Iranian leaders, openly declare their first step is to remove Israel from the face of the earth, then to defeat the United States. They have also made it quite clear that Iran intends to use atomic bombs in this confrontation. His predecessor, President Khatami, has made similar statements. In other words, the spokesmen for the central piece of the Islamic fascist mosaic are working to bring about the end of the free world as fast as they possibly can, in order to subject mankind to the slavery of a new Caliphate. These messianic Shi'ites see this as an opportunity to accomplish this long desired mission for radical Islam. Remember, Islamic extremists fought the West over the course of a thousand years to their high-water mark outside the gates of Vienna . The siege of Vienna lasted until September 1683 – September 11, 1683 – the next day the united West triumphed. Centuries have passed in relative peace, but now with the combination of oil revenues, off the shelf weapons and technology, and terror as a tactic a virulent alliance of extremist now have a strategy to defeat their enemy, the infidels. A few weeks ago I spoke with a leader of the Independent Student Movement who has escaped to America, and he told me that every young person admitted to college must sign an agreement to “volunteer” for acts of suicide terrorism. Nowadays every university student in Iran must attend courses on how to strap on and detonate a suicide bomb. In a recent speech Ahmadi-Nezhad said martyrdom is the greatest virtue of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Islamic fascism is truly evil. Such a regime cannot be permitted to build an arsenal of atomic weapons, and I don't expect that we are going to convince them to abandon their nuclear program at the negotiating table. You can't reason people out of something that they didn't arrive at reasonably in the first place. That is why I believe the only way to change the policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran is to change the regime itself. The people of Iran – who overwhelmingly wish to live in a free society after 27 years of horror – want the chance to choose their own leaders and their own policies. They, not the fanatics, should be our negotiating partners. I think President Bush believes that, for it is implicit in almost every statement he has made about Iran. Even a nuclear-free Iran would still be the driving force behind Islamic fascism, and it would continue its murderous policies toward us and all others who do not submit to the dictates of the Supreme Leader. I am sadly convinced that sooner or later we will have to confront this regime. This is not yet the policy of the United States . In fact, the Iran Freedom and Support Act, which seeks to greatly increase our communication with the Iranian people, and will show the world the seriousness of our opposition to Iran's evil regime, has been vigorously opposed by the State Department. The Iran Freedom and Support Act has sixty-one cosponsors. Its companion bill was passed by the House of Representatives in April with over 350 votes. This legislation has two prime objectives. The first is to put the Senate on record in support for freedom and democracy for the Iranian people, to enable our government to broadcast that message effectively, and to support pro-democracy groups in Iran. The second is to punish countries who contribute to the Iranian nuclear program, by imposing sanctions on countries and companies who trade with Iran in nuclear and dual-use components. I want them to have to choose between doing business with the United States, and doing business with Iran. I think it's an easy choice. When I recently proposed to attach the basic elements of the Iran Freedom and Support Act as an amendment to the military budget, Secretary of State Rice wrote to oppose it. She said it would hamper her ability to negotiate alongside our allies. I respectfully disagree with the Secretary of State, and I regret that a majority of Senators – including some who are cosponsors of the actual legislation – voted against the amendment. I think the diplomats have it wrong. When we pass the Iran Freedom and Support Act, its major diplomatic effect will be to strengthen our negotiating position, for it spells out the consequences if Iran does not comply with our reasonable demands. I'm sure the President will sign it when it passes. The language of the State Department's opposition to the Iran Act is virtually identical to their warnings, over several years, about the Syrian Accountability Act that I authored. Yet, the President not only signed it, but he implemented the sanctions to the surprise of many. Still, though Syria is a critical element in the fascist mosaic, Iran is the indispensable piece. Iran is at the center of this war. We have seen that clearly in Lebanon and Gaza, where Hezbollah and Hamas, Iran's proxies, gratuitously attacked Israel . During the fighting in Lebanon , we learned that Iranian missiles had been fired into Israel and at Israeli and Egyptian ships, and there even seem to have been Iranian Revolutionary Guards officers at the controls. Lebanon cannot survive as a free country if Hezbollah operates from its territory and uses it to stockpile Iranian weapons and give operational space to Iranian Revolutionary Guards. It is intolerable to allow more than ten thousand terrorist-controlled rockets and missiles, aimed at Israel, in southern Lebanon . And Iraq will never have the security it deserves so long as the Islamic fascists are in power in Iran. I believe we must fight for a strong Lebanon, a strong Israel, and a strong Iraq . That requires effective action against Iran. The longer we wait, the more people will be blown up, tortured, incarcerated, intimidated, and assassinated. In 1979 Iran declared itself our enemy and for 27 years it has proven the truth of those words. A democratic Iran may not end the war against Islamic fascism, but without it this war will last to be our children's war, not just ours. We owe it to them, it is our watch, it is our challenge. Historians may write of this time in American history that we were not the greatest generation- that we fell short on many fronts. But I hope they also write that like our ancestors we too fought for freedom, that we too confronted evil, that we too endured a great trial and won a victory for the future of mankind. Thank you.
61 posted on 11/14/2006 9:25:35 AM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Interesting. Absent a state to pursue, pursuing and destroying select targets (let's start w/Mecca) in various countries makes sense.

62 posted on 11/14/2006 9:28:35 AM PST by radiohead (Hey Kerry, I'm still here; still hating your lying, stinking, guts you coward.)
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To: kingattax

she doesn't answer to "nancy" any have to call her madame speaker to get a response.


There's also been a memorandum issued that you are NOT to make eye contact with her.

63 posted on 11/14/2006 9:31:12 AM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: MadIvan

Let's see I just checked out the book shelf & looked up some of my old military manuals:United States Office of Civilian Defense manual "Protection against gas "circa December 1941

"Army FM 21-41 Soldiers handbook for nuclear,biological and chemical warfare" circa Dec.1958
finally "Army FM 3-5 Characteristics and Employment of Ground Chemical Munitions" circa May 1946.

Amazing some the stuff you can find at used book stores if you decide to scrounge around.

64 posted on 11/14/2006 12:56:40 PM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: IrishBrigade
Multiculturalism is but one of hurdles we'll have to overcome. We've also got to reorder our values. We've become a people that values life more than freedom, not recognizing life without freedom is not cohesive with really living at all. That so many people fear for their lives more than losing freedom is very disturbing.

Just as troubling are the deflections our leaders offer Islam. Neither democracy nor a thriving economy will alter the nature of the beast Islam is. People want to ignore history that tells us Hitler rose to power within a democracy, and while Germany was in deep financial woes at that time, it was still one of the wealthiest nations at that time. Neither democracy nor wealth deterred it from making war based on ideology.

Your reference to school curricula should not be taken lightly by anyone in light of the recent US Supreme Court refusal to hear a case involving the teaching of the religion of Islam, including Islamic prayer in public schools. Again, these are public schools financed by taxpayer dollars for anyone that missed it. The court gave to Islam the tools of indoctrination forbidden Christianity.

Catholics should have rallied to Pope Benedict over the stir his speech created. I felt his speech was extremely well timed coming on the heels of the forced conversions of two kidnapped western journalists in Gaza. Instead of rallying to his defense, many Catholics openly criticized him or questioned his obligation to speak forthright. We've also got Catholic churches in our area, Fresno, CA, working vigorously to present Islam as an equal to Christianity. I don't know if individual diocese are doing this of their own accord or under papal guidance. Disturbing either way. What is also troubling is the local bishop has Catholics going to mosques, not Muslims coming to churches.

Looking over what I have just written, our best attribute is also our worst. We are primarily a Christian based society taught it is better to give than receive. Our giving now includes the giving of that which made us unique without getting anything but misery in return. We must learn to close our hand.
65 posted on 11/14/2006 1:13:10 PM PST by backtothestreets
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To: MadIvan


66 posted on 11/14/2006 1:27:07 PM PST by ryan71 (You can hear it on the coconut telegraph...)
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To: Mr. Silverback
Well, I was apologizing to those on the board who are afraid to flex the ultimate nuclear deterrent option. You and I are in agreement.

I don't think MAD will work with islam. It might cool the jets of the responsible leaders of the region, if there are any. I am thinking of the Saudis and the Pakis. Both these regimes are encouraging and financing the radical elements. They are going to pay dearly for that folly. As for the Iranian leadership, I think Amadiniwhackjob's basic policy is to actually start a nuclear war. What do you do with that other than a pre-emptive strike?

What percentage of moslems are "radical elements"? Who knows? Did we ask in WW II which percentage of the German nation were Nazi's? Nope. We didn't care. Victory was the only option, and it was pursued with vigor. What percentage of the populations of Hiroshima and Nagisaki were supportive of the Japanese warlords? That question never came up. The policy-makers didn't care. The goal was victory. Incinerating two cities was the last step to the goal.

Personally, I don't care how many of these people are against us. The future without victory is too difficult to contemplate.

67 posted on 11/14/2006 2:29:55 PM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name after Harper's election?)
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To: Red_Devil 232

I would still like to hear from someone with some expertise what the result would be of vaporizing Mecca, Medina, and all the other so called "holy cities". What would happen to islam? Would it disolve? If the "holy cities" were destroyed would mo be exposed as a false prophet? Would they be more angry at us then they are now? Does anyone have the answers to these questions?

68 posted on 11/14/2006 2:32:51 PM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name after Harper's election?)
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To: radiohead
Well, there really are states to pursue, the same ones that house the "holy cities". To wit:

Iran-Openly seeking a nuclear arsenal, threatening Israel's existence, openly threatening the US, feeding the insurgents in Iraq.

Syria-Ally of Iran (see above). Houses the "missing" Iraqi WMD's. Destabizing the Lebanese government. Threatening Israel daily.

Pakistan-The secret service created the Taliban. Allowing OBL and friends to operate in the NWP. Allowing "hate" madrasses to turn out thousands of new fanatics. Already has the "islamic bomb".

Saudi Arabia-Finances the radicals.

How's that for a start?

69 posted on 11/14/2006 2:37:40 PM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name after Harper's election?)
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To: sheik yerbouty

yup, if some one tells you he's going to punch you in the mouthj, are you going to let him?

70 posted on 11/14/2006 2:40:48 PM PST by halfright (9/11/2001 3000 AMERICANS were MURDERED. Never, EVER, forget. Semper Fi)
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To: halfright

He will be looking for dentures if he can get up at all..

71 posted on 11/14/2006 2:48:18 PM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: halfright

He will be looking for dentures if he can get up at all..

72 posted on 11/14/2006 2:48:21 PM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Fine by me, tho I would really like some way of getting rid of the Iranian government rather than blowing up the people. Iranians are generally pro-American (indeed, were the only Muslims in sympathy w/us after 9/11); they just need to get rid of their government. I don't know if bringing back the Shah's son is the answer, but of all the Muzzies I'd like to see erased from the planet, I'd put the Iranian common man at the bottom of the list.

73 posted on 11/14/2006 2:48:30 PM PST by radiohead (Hey Kerry, I'm still here; still hating your lying, stinking, guts you coward.)
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To: radiohead

RH, I'm sure there are great "common men" all over the middle east. I'm sure there were a lot of great people who died in Hiroshima. There are a lot of great people in Canada and the US. Unfortunately, we all suffer, to a lesser or greater degree, for the stupid policies of our governments. Sometimes these policies can be absolutely deadly.

74 posted on 11/14/2006 2:55:45 PM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name after Harper's election?)
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To: Former Proud Canadian
I would like to believe there are concerted efforts underway to overthrow the Iranian gov't. I would like to believe there are concerted efforts underway to overthrow the Iranian gov't. I would like to believe there are concerted efforts underway to overthrow the Iranian gov't. I would like to believe there are concerted efforts underway to overthrow the Iranian gov't. I would like to believe there are concerted efforts underway to overthrow the Iranian gov't. I would like to believe there are concerted efforts underway to overthrow the Iranian gov't. I would like to believe there are concerted efforts underway to overthrow the Iranian gov't...

before push comes to shove comes to nuclear annihilation...

75 posted on 11/14/2006 3:01:44 PM PST by bygolly
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To: MadIvan

If UK or USA gets hit by a Muslim nuke then Mecca-Medina should get wasted for all time. A few other targets too. Mohammedans need a major attitude adjustment. I'm sick of these wise guys. Only imbeciles worship false prophets, the hot Arabian sun has lowered their IQs 40 points and the Koran another 40

76 posted on 11/14/2006 3:01:55 PM PST by dennisw ("For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks-- Matt. 12:34)
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To: dennisw

You are far too generous with those IQ estimates..

77 posted on 11/14/2006 10:57:18 PM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: MadIvan


Subject: ON TV Tonight 11/15/06

Radical Islamists are at war with the West. In a one-hour special, Glenn Beck will show you the shocking images -- rarely seen by American viewers -- that help fuel rage against Israel and the West. 7 and 9 pm


78 posted on 11/15/2006 10:00:58 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: MadIvan

al-Quaeda get financial and military support both overt and covert from a number of countries and entities in the middle east. I certainly hope we've made it crystal clear to all of them that any nuclear or chemical attack upon America will result in a like attack upon them by us. They must be convinced that there is a heavy price to be paid for supporting a terrorist entity bent upon such attacks.

79 posted on 11/15/2006 10:08:42 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God." (Psalm 53:1))
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