Posted on 11/14/2006 8:32:32 AM PST by xzins
'There was continual violence and threat of violence, and the government was constantly enforcing various Coercion Acts and suspending habeas corpus. Confrontations with violent mobs and attempted uprisings (such as the Fenian risings) occurred with regularity.'
And did not garner the support of the masses and were thus put down just as quickly.
Not so fast...had to get rid of the Catholic Stuarts first.
And Cromwell's "reign" probably had a lot to do with that.
'Not so fast...had to get rid of the Catholic Stuarts first.'
Indeed, but the back of the catholic problem was largely broken many years before. Once the catholics were taken out of the equation Britains domination of the world could begin in earnest and of course from that point on, all the catholic nations of europe were less successful than protestant Britain.
That said, JohnBarlycorn Must Die is one of rock's great sounds. :>)
I agree about tactic's importance, however, I find the religious mixtures, information warfare, and hard feelings to be close parallels.
When such historical messes become too much, it's far easier and more accurate to blame the devil and remain brothers in Christ.
If I'm slaughtered for having Faith in what was once a piece a bread but now the Presence of Christ, then it would be safest for my soul to garble, "Forgive them Lord, for they know no what they do."
When would you say that was?
You are simply wrong in your assessment of the nature of Ireland during this period.
For example, in the case of the Fenians, British authorities estimated that as many as 150,000 Irishmen had been recruited to the cause, and a massive uprising was averted at the last minute only by an anonymous tip that led to the preemptive arrests of hundreds of leaders on the eve of the planned event.
Ireland was practically ungovernable. Here are the words of one Lord Lieutenant in the latter half of the 19th century: "Ireland is an infernal country to manage...The only way to govern is the old plan (which I will not attempt) of taking up violently one faction or the other, putting them like fighting-cocks, and then backing one. I wish you would send me to India. Ireland is the grave of every reputation."
Your understanding of Irish history seems to be based on popular conceptions in England as opposed to an actual study of the history.
"Once more into the breach boys"
In order for Cromwell to take a city he had to make a breach in the city walls, then the troops would storm thru the breach. The first thru met almost certain death, going thru the breach was the last thing anyone wanted to do. Cities that forced Cromwell army to go thru the breach were not treated well by the surviving troops. And thier general did let them take thier revenge once the city was taken.
Hey, he didn't make this stuff up. I speak as one who grew up in the middle of Scotch-Irish country (York County, SC). That's just what this ethnic group calls itself.
Btw, if I ever really want to insult a Scotsman, I won't call him "Scotch." I can do a lot better than that.
Yep, I agree.
I support my president, and I voted for him, and he gets to decide those things.
What's instructive about the Ireland/Cromwell thing is that the British stayed and the religious difference remained and was even magnified.
There is a limited time to go in, break things, and depart with the threat that you'll do it again if they don't straighten up.
The ended up using a partioning of the Irish Island to give some kind of peace.
"Scotch" is a kind of whiskey. Scots are correctly referred to as Scots (or Scottish).
Very true.
I gather you are a Briton?
There are no lessons of import for Iraq in that event.
Good think you've come along and saved me all this thought.
See #51
(And I promise never to non-theologize Cromwell again.:>)
I should tell you, I got a ping last week from BJClinton, and I think Ronaldus Magnus is around here somewhere...though I suspect that's not REALLY who he is.
=]
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