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Jonestown tragedy had liberal roots
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2006/11/16/jonestown-tragedy-had-liberal-roots/ ^

Posted on 11/16/2006 7:57:25 AM PST by zippy the razor

Jones is sometimes described as a religious fanatic, as a man who used faith to do monstrous things. The truth is his faith wasn’t, as many presume, in Christianity. He believed in Marx more than in Christ.

Jones baptized people “in the holy name of socialism” and called himself the Socialist Worker God.

(Excerpt) Read more at mensnewsdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: jimjones; jonestown; koolaid
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1 posted on 11/16/2006 7:57:25 AM PST by zippy the razor
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To: zippy the razor

This is not a revelation, the guy was known for his socialist and Marxist writings and rantings. He viewed with suspicion church members that did not readily donate their wives for sexual congress - not giving their all, I guess. Read the book "Raven", it's freaky as hell.


2 posted on 11/16/2006 8:03:24 AM PST by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: zippy the razor

I have read detailed accounts of the early history of Jamestown. Indeed, the roots of modern liberalism may be traced here primarily, along with many recorded early disasters. Coincidence?


3 posted on 11/16/2006 8:04:06 AM PST by Obadiah
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To: zippy the razor

My heart bleeds purple kool-aid for them (him)...


4 posted on 11/16/2006 8:07:00 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans (I've always been hated))
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To: Obadiah

Whoa; are you sure this is about "JAMEStown""?


5 posted on 11/16/2006 8:08:06 AM PST by widowithfoursons
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To: zippy the razor

Hence the name: People's Church


6 posted on 11/16/2006 8:13:35 AM PST by conservativeharleyguy (Technically, we're all Republicans (still)!!!)
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To: widowithfoursons
Whoa; are you sure this is about "JAMEStown""?

Yea, there for a minute I thought that it said Jamestown and was thinking that now we find out that liberalism causes floods too?! What next... :)

7 posted on 11/16/2006 8:16:47 AM PST by mc5cents
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To: zippy the razor

Here is another important church of the religious left.

"Miami Mayor Xavier Suarez declared October 7, 1990, "Yahweh ben Yahweh Day."


http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/yahweh_cult/index.html


8 posted on 11/16/2006 8:18:32 AM PST by ansel12 (America, love it ,or at least give up your home citizenship before accepting ours too.)
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To: zippy the razor

I rememeber pictures of him and Rosalyn Carter.


9 posted on 11/16/2006 8:19:53 AM PST by Sybeck1
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.


10 posted on 11/16/2006 8:22:09 AM PST by firewalk
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To: widowithfoursons

D'Oh! My apologies. Brain misfire. I was talking about Jamestown, but the article referred to Jonestown.


11 posted on 11/16/2006 8:26:55 AM PST by Obadiah
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To: zippy the razor

Jim Jones was a full-blown Commie.


12 posted on 11/16/2006 8:27:31 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: zot; Interesting Times; SeraphimApprentice

ping


13 posted on 11/16/2006 8:30:41 AM PST by GreyFriar ( (3rd Armored Division - Spearhead))
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To: zippy the razor
Jones wanted his followers to learn Russian. He’d left instructions for assets to be sent to the Soviet Union.

. . . Former Vice President Hubert Humphrey said that Jones’ work “is testimony to the positive and truly Christian approach to dealing with the myriad problems confronting our society today.”

. . . Joseph Califano . . . Walter Mondale . . . Jimmy Carter’s wife, Rosalynn . . . all had good words to say for Jones.

Funny how none of that made the headlines back in the day!

14 posted on 11/16/2006 8:30:59 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: zippy the razor

And his church was in San Francisco before it went to Guyana. He had many friends in politics up there.


15 posted on 11/16/2006 8:34:25 AM PST by rabidralph
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To: zippy the razor
Good morning.

Jones first came here to Redwood Valley in the mid '60s and brought many Bay Area inner city people with him. They started to buy property and opened a church a couple of miles from my home.

My wife lost cousins at Jonestown and I know several others who lost family. Before the county closed it to save money, Jones' old church building was my polling place.

Everyone I know says that Jones helped many people at first but I say that he was a straight forward socialist and mad as a hatter from the beginning.

Michal Frazier
16 posted on 11/16/2006 8:37:25 AM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: zippy the razor
Jonestown Massacre: November 18, 1978
17 posted on 11/16/2006 8:40:16 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: zippy the razor


Does severe mental illness really have a political ideology behind it? One does not have 900 of your followers commit murder/suicide without some pretty serious screws loose.

I put Koresh in the same category. More important that the followers die than to lose the power and authority he wielded over his followers.


18 posted on 11/16/2006 8:50:44 AM PST by dmz
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To: dmz
Good morning.

The 900 suicides at Jonestown were just that, suicides. Why those deluded people did what they did is incomprehensible to most sane people.

The Davidians were shot and burned to death by an incompetent, out of control government agency that botched an unnecessary raid that was more about taxes and budgets than anything else. Another out of control agency then cleaned up the mess.

They were both religious groups. Other than that, their ends are not even similar.

Michael Frazier
19 posted on 11/16/2006 9:42:45 AM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: domenad; zippy the razor

It is news to me. I was in school when the tragedy occurred. I knew he ran a cult but had heard it was based on Christianity and his twisting of it. I haven't read 'Raven', what I have read and thought I knew is freaky as it is.


21 posted on 11/16/2006 10:02:20 AM PST by fortunecookie (My computer is fried, but I'm back with a temporary set up!)
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To: zippy the razor
Jones baptized people “in the holy name of socialism”
"Holy?" Hardly. You can divide people into two groups: those who attempt to do things and those who aspire to authority based only on their ability to criticize those who do. Socialists are hypercritical second guessers of the doers.

But socialists also are noteworthy for their proclivity to appropriate for themselves any expression which elates to people collectively, as opposed to government. Examples are "the people," "the masses," "public" - and, of course, the word "society" itself. The most obvious example is the conflation of "public" with "government. Thus, "the public sector" is a circumlocution for "government." "Public" schools are government schools, and so on.

But if "public" is the most obvious example, "society" is IMHO the most blatant. If a leftist says, "Society should" (do some particular thing) he means nothing other than that the government should do that thing. It will not matter how much the aggregation of all the individual people who make up society voluntarily spend on, for example, giving children lunch. If a socialists says that "Society should feed lunch to its children," he means the government should do it and "society" - the government - is not doing so.

That relates directly to the "holy" name of "socialism." What could be clearer than that what leftists call "socialism" is nothing other than governmentism? At its base level "socialism" is a lie. The socialist conflates "society" with "government" so thoroughly as to blind himself to the possibility of making a distinction between the two. So for any socialist who may see this, I will draw the distinction for you:

Society minus government equals freedom.
Where there is no difference in fact between society and government, there is no freedom.

22 posted on 11/16/2006 10:04:24 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: zippy the razor

Just think, without Jamestown, we would not have the phrase, "don't drink the kool aid"


23 posted on 11/16/2006 10:11:01 AM PST by fish hawk
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To: zippy the razor

Thanks for posting this.


24 posted on 11/16/2006 10:57:03 AM PST by Mike Bates (Irish Alzheimer's victim: I only remember the grudges.)
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To: fortunecookie

"Raven" was a biography of Jones, really in depth and detailed. And spooky as hell.


25 posted on 11/16/2006 10:57:28 AM PST by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: brazzaville

I doubt we'll find much to agree on on this topic. They were both religious cults, with sick and twisted bast$%ds at the helm. Both thought more of their own power and messianic complexes than the people they sucked in.

Jim Jones was responsible for the deaths in Guyana.
David Koresh was responsible for the deaths in Waco (think suicide by cop).

The law enforcement in waco screwed up horribly, but in no way shape or form does that come close to exonerating Koresh for what happened there.

And btw, 900 people died in Guyana, but there were a lot of murders in addition to the suicides.


26 posted on 11/16/2006 12:36:05 PM PST by dmz
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To: Sybeck1

I rememeber pictures of him and Rosalyn Carter.




Saw a show on John Wayne Gacy last night. He was a democrat precinct captain in the Chicago area and there was a picture of him with Rosalyn Carter they showed.

Cute.


27 posted on 11/16/2006 12:38:48 PM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: dmz
Good afternoon.
Clearly we aren't going to agree on anything on this.

"David Koresh was responsible for the deaths in Waco (think suicide by cop)."

I know what suicide by cop is. I had a close friend from the Army commit suicide by cop by holding up a liquor store and drawing on the cops when they responded. He had too much of Vietnam still in his mind.

There's a big difference between that and opening your door to be shot at by cattle cars full of ATF thugs ostensibly serving a warrant on someone who routinely left the building to go running or to go to town, and who the raiders knew was aware that they were coming, being besieged by an army for 51 days, and ultimately being killed.

Believe what you want. You are wrong on this and I doubt that you are open to changing your mind.

I know all about the attack on the delegation that had flown down to talk to Jones. I've known a man for years who, with his wife, was also targeted by Jones' assassins but survived. Their child was one of the 900 dead in Jonestown. As I said, the only similarity is that Jones' victims and the Davidians both thought of themselves as church people.

Michael Frazier
28 posted on 11/16/2006 1:23:40 PM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: domenad
"Raven" was a biography of Jones, really in depth and detailed. And spooky as hell.

Oh, my, I remember the stories then in magazines, wasn't there a made for TV movie? Well, those stories were creepy enough. He really was quite insane, a nutjob. And his ties to socialism, well, it does fill in certain gaps I had about how he managed to 'convince' so many to drink the grape drink. (Yeah, I remember the 'runners', those trying to flee, were shot.)

29 posted on 11/16/2006 2:29:56 PM PST by fortunecookie (My computer is fried, but I'm back with a temporary set up!)
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
Saw a show on John Wayne Gacy last night. He was a democrat precinct captain in the Chicago area and there was a picture of him with Rosalyn Carter they showed.

Cute.

Michael M. Bates: My Side of the Swamp

30 posted on 11/16/2006 3:16:09 PM PST by Mike Bates (Irish Alzheimer's victim: I only remember the grudges.)
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To: Mike Bates

Looks like the Carter's knew the nicest people.


31 posted on 11/16/2006 3:21:24 PM PST by ladyinred (RIP my precious Lamb Chop)
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To: ladyinred

And "the Velvet Glove" would cozy up to them as long as they could produce 'Rat votes.


32 posted on 11/16/2006 3:22:40 PM PST by Mike Bates (Irish Alzheimer's victim: I only remember the grudges.)
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To: Mike Bates

That's it - hard to tell which one look scarier in that picture - I think it's a toss up.


33 posted on 11/16/2006 6:08:16 PM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: brazzaville

Brazzaville..are you from Redwood Valley?....my aunt lived in Redwood Valley, up Rd B, just up the hill from the Jim Jones church in Redwood Valley...we visited her in 1977, and at that time she warned us about Jones, and that really weird church, as she called it at the time...she said, she believed something awful was going to happen with that church someday...

My own parents moved out to Redwood Valley in 1983, and loved that whole area...of course, this was long after Jones had left, but people there still remember him...

I did not realize that they had closed Jones old church...the last time I was in Redwood Valley was in 1990, when I brought my mom up to live with me, in Wasington State...I think the old church bldg was still open and being used at the time, tho I am not sure what it was being used for...

I always like Redwood Valley, and since my parents have both died, and my aunt has relocated, I have not been back there in over 15yrs...but my time there was always wonderful, tho it gets to be so unbearably hot for me, as I am used to the temperate climes of western Washington State...


34 posted on 11/16/2006 6:16:36 PM PST by andysandmikesmom
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for the ping. Yes, Jim Jones was a full-fledged Communist. Another step in setting the record straight.


35 posted on 11/16/2006 6:58:53 PM PST by zot (GWB -- the most slandered man of this decade)
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To: andysandmikesmom
Good evening.
"Brazzaville..are you from Redwood Valley?"

Actually, I live up off of Rd B myself, near the 3300 part and off the road a ways. My wife's family has been here in the county since the 1850's. I like it as much as I have any of the many places I've lived.

The county didn't close the church, just ceased to use it as a polling place. I'm sorry, I don't remember what church uses the location now. I always liked voting in the church, though I was always keenly aware of it's history. Jones and the People's Temple had done a lot of damage and left a lot of scars there.

My wife worked in the DA's office at the time and she too felt that a tragedy was in the making. She said that Jones made her skin crawl, something I've heard from many people who knew him.

I arrived here in 1987, long after after the sadness at Jonestown but the presence of the People's Temple is still felt.

It does get hot here, doesn't it. I hate being cold so I love it as much as my friends on the coast hate it.

You and my wife were neighbors. Interesting drift on a thread about an evil socialist, eh.

Later,

Michael Frazier
36 posted on 11/16/2006 7:02:02 PM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville

I dont know the addresses and how they run, on road B, as I only visited my aunt there the one time I visited her, while she lived off of road B...but she did live all the way up on the top...one of her sons lived further down on Road B...

My parents lived on Ellen Lynn...the second Ellen Lynn..

And of even more interest, is that your last name, and my maiden name are the same, and spelled exactly the same...

Yes it is an interesting drift, on a thread about such an evil man...


37 posted on 11/16/2006 7:40:48 PM PST by andysandmikesmom
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To: brazzaville

I doubt that you are open to changing your mind.
____________

And what leads you to this conclusion?


38 posted on 11/17/2006 5:23:18 AM PST by dmz
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To: zippy the razor; brazzaville

There is a bunch of revisionist history going on with this tragedy. A film has just been made, along with a play last year, that's trying to say "well there were some good things about Peoples Temple." Typical rationalization of socialism. Also, the director of this movie has an obvious left-leaning slant and is using the film to take veiled swipes at our government and how it's fighting the War on Terror. They came just recently to my area for a screening. There's a lot of unsavory things these filmmakers don't want to reveal, about corruption among S.F. clergy, politicians and the media who were all complicit in Jones rise to infamy.

http://maroonedinmarin.blogspot.com/2006/11/jonestown-filmmakers-ignore-sf-media.html


39 posted on 11/26/2006 9:44:01 AM PST by stratman1969 (CLINTON LIED - 3,000+ DIED)
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To: stratman1969
Good morning.

There were some good things accomplished by the People's Temple.

There were people saved from the wreckage of the inner city and others who found some meaning in their empty lives.

The problem is that Jones was a Socialist madman and those people either woke up and fled the Temple or died in Guyana.

Michael Frazier
40 posted on 11/26/2006 9:51:23 AM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: zippy the razor

I wrote a term paper on Jim Jones in college.

He was one of the early adopters of the current crop of churches who teach, give, give, give, the rich won't go to heaven, Jesus would have been a communist, etc.

These reformist churches are more of the norm now, most non-orthodox jewish synagogues preach this, many christian and catholic churches have gone this route, too, politics is everywhere.


41 posted on 11/26/2006 9:55:56 AM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: bjs1779
Video source of Jonestown Q 042 death tape Nov. 18, 1978

Jonestown death tape 1

Jonestown death tape 2

Jonestown death tape 3

Jonestown death tape 4

Jonestown death tape 5

42 posted on 10/04/2007 10:31:21 AM PDT by bjs1779
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To: bjs1779
2 part audio of Jonestown death tape Q 042

FBI Death Tape 1 - 15:15

FBI Death Tape 2 - 29:13

43 posted on 10/04/2007 10:41:49 AM PDT by bjs1779
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To: bjs1779
Clips of A&E documentary on Jonestown: Evidence of Revision

Evidence of Revision - 6:22

44 posted on 10/04/2007 10:55:16 AM PDT by bjs1779
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To: bjs1779
Montage video - includes clips of Congressman Ryan at the airstrip and the ambush.

Jim Jones And The Jonestown Tragedy - 8.23

45 posted on 10/04/2007 11:29:09 AM PDT by bjs1779
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To: rabidralph
"And his church was in San Francisco before it went to Guyana."

And his church was in Indianapolis before San Fran. However, communism doesn't go over well with Hoosiers so he skeddadled to the workers paradise of San Fran for a more accepting environment.

46 posted on 10/04/2007 11:36:50 AM PDT by joebuck
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To: brazzaville

Most of the Jonestown followers were black women and radical white idealists.Anyone who knows anything about life in the Fillmore or Hunter’s Point will understand why these women followed this Great White God to the socialist promised land.Its easy to fall for the oaky doke when your life is a welfare laden mess and your kids and grandkids are out of your control.
And the white radicals needed a new Cuba.There was no more SDS or Yippies.But the Reverend Jones promised a socialist utopia in South America.So they tried to hang on to a past that had died years before.
And we all know how it all went down.


47 posted on 10/04/2007 11:39:48 AM PDT by Riverman94610
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To: Riverman94610
And we all know how it all went down.


48 posted on 10/04/2007 11:42:04 AM PDT by dfwgator (The University of Florida - Still Championship U)
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To: brazzaville

‘The Davidians were shot and burned to death by an incompetent, out of control government agency ‘

Thats simply not true, excluding the firefight the first day at the Davidian compound.

Don’t misunderstand me, I think the ATF and everybody involved in the ‘raid’ screwed up big time, in a vain attempt to gain some publicity and additional funding for their respective agencies.

but that last day, the Davidians ‘shot and burned to death’ at their own hands.


49 posted on 10/04/2007 11:44:33 AM PDT by Badeye (So much for the faux tri athlete)
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To: dfwgator

To me,the true horror was all the young children that were killed by their own mothers,almost all black women.It was the precursor to the Eighties crack epidemic where black women abandoned their own children to give all to a death drug.
I lived in The City back in those days.Something evil was in the air.It was an omen of things to come.


50 posted on 10/04/2007 11:46:29 AM PDT by Riverman94610
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