Skip to comments.Jonestown tragedy had liberal roots
Posted on 11/16/2006 7:57:25 AM PST by zippy the razor
Jones is sometimes described as a religious fanatic, as a man who used faith to do monstrous things. The truth is his faith wasnt, as many presume, in Christianity. He believed in Marx more than in Christ.
Jones baptized people in the holy name of socialism and called himself the Socialist Worker God.
(Excerpt) Read more at mensnewsdaily.com ...
This is not a revelation, the guy was known for his socialist and Marxist writings and rantings. He viewed with suspicion church members that did not readily donate their wives for sexual congress - not giving their all, I guess. Read the book "Raven", it's freaky as hell.
I have read detailed accounts of the early history of Jamestown. Indeed, the roots of modern liberalism may be traced here primarily, along with many recorded early disasters. Coincidence?
My heart bleeds purple kool-aid for them (him)...
Whoa; are you sure this is about "JAMEStown""?
Hence the name: People's Church
Yea, there for a minute I thought that it said Jamestown and was thinking that now we find out that liberalism causes floods too?! What next... :)
Here is another important church of the religious left.
"Miami Mayor Xavier Suarez declared October 7, 1990, "Yahweh ben Yahweh Day."
I rememeber pictures of him and Rosalyn Carter.
D'Oh! My apologies. Brain misfire. I was talking about Jamestown, but the article referred to Jonestown.
Jim Jones was a full-blown Commie.
. . . Former Vice President Hubert Humphrey said that Jones work is testimony to the positive and truly Christian approach to dealing with the myriad problems confronting our society today.
. . . Joseph Califano . . . Walter Mondale . . . Jimmy Carters wife, Rosalynn . . . all had good words to say for Jones.
Funny how none of that made the headlines back in the day!
And his church was in San Francisco before it went to Guyana. He had many friends in politics up there.
Does severe mental illness really have a political ideology behind it? One does not have 900 of your followers commit murder/suicide without some pretty serious screws loose.
I put Koresh in the same category. More important that the followers die than to lose the power and authority he wielded over his followers.
It is news to me. I was in school when the tragedy occurred. I knew he ran a cult but had heard it was based on Christianity and his twisting of it. I haven't read 'Raven', what I have read and thought I knew is freaky as it is.
"Holy?" Hardly. You can divide people into two groups: those who attempt to do things and those who aspire to authority based only on their ability to criticize those who do. Socialists are hypercritical second guessers of the doers.
But socialists also are noteworthy for their proclivity to appropriate for themselves any expression which elates to people collectively, as opposed to government. Examples are "the people," "the masses," "public" - and, of course, the word "society" itself. The most obvious example is the conflation of "public" with "government. Thus, "the public sector" is a circumlocution for "government." "Public" schools are government schools, and so on.
But if "public" is the most obvious example, "society" is IMHO the most blatant. If a leftist says, "Society should" (do some particular thing) he means nothing other than that the government should do that thing. It will not matter how much the aggregation of all the individual people who make up society voluntarily spend on, for example, giving children lunch. If a socialists says that "Society should feed lunch to its children," he means the government should do it and "society" - the government - is not doing so.
That relates directly to the "holy" name of "socialism." What could be clearer than that what leftists call "socialism" is nothing other than governmentism? At its base level "socialism" is a lie. The socialist conflates "society" with "government" so thoroughly as to blind himself to the possibility of making a distinction between the two. So for any socialist who may see this, I will draw the distinction for you:Society minus government equals freedom.Where there is no difference in fact between society and government, there is no freedom.
Just think, without Jamestown, we would not have the phrase, "don't drink the kool aid"
Thanks for posting this.
"Raven" was a biography of Jones, really in depth and detailed. And spooky as hell.
I doubt we'll find much to agree on on this topic. They were both religious cults, with sick and twisted bast$%ds at the helm. Both thought more of their own power and messianic complexes than the people they sucked in.
Jim Jones was responsible for the deaths in Guyana.
David Koresh was responsible for the deaths in Waco (think suicide by cop).
The law enforcement in waco screwed up horribly, but in no way shape or form does that come close to exonerating Koresh for what happened there.
And btw, 900 people died in Guyana, but there were a lot of murders in addition to the suicides.
I rememeber pictures of him and Rosalyn Carter.
Oh, my, I remember the stories then in magazines, wasn't there a made for TV movie? Well, those stories were creepy enough. He really was quite insane, a nutjob. And his ties to socialism, well, it does fill in certain gaps I had about how he managed to 'convince' so many to drink the grape drink. (Yeah, I remember the 'runners', those trying to flee, were shot.)
Looks like the Carter's knew the nicest people.
And "the Velvet Glove" would cozy up to them as long as they could produce 'Rat votes.
That's it - hard to tell which one look scarier in that picture - I think it's a toss up.
Brazzaville..are you from Redwood Valley?....my aunt lived in Redwood Valley, up Rd B, just up the hill from the Jim Jones church in Redwood Valley...we visited her in 1977, and at that time she warned us about Jones, and that really weird church, as she called it at the time...she said, she believed something awful was going to happen with that church someday...
My own parents moved out to Redwood Valley in 1983, and loved that whole area...of course, this was long after Jones had left, but people there still remember him...
I did not realize that they had closed Jones old church...the last time I was in Redwood Valley was in 1990, when I brought my mom up to live with me, in Wasington State...I think the old church bldg was still open and being used at the time, tho I am not sure what it was being used for...
I always like Redwood Valley, and since my parents have both died, and my aunt has relocated, I have not been back there in over 15yrs...but my time there was always wonderful, tho it gets to be so unbearably hot for me, as I am used to the temperate climes of western Washington State...
Thanks for the ping. Yes, Jim Jones was a full-fledged Communist. Another step in setting the record straight.
I dont know the addresses and how they run, on road B, as I only visited my aunt there the one time I visited her, while she lived off of road B...but she did live all the way up on the top...one of her sons lived further down on Road B...
My parents lived on Ellen Lynn...the second Ellen Lynn..
And of even more interest, is that your last name, and my maiden name are the same, and spelled exactly the same...
Yes it is an interesting drift, on a thread about such an evil man...
I doubt that you are open to changing your mind.
And what leads you to this conclusion?
There is a bunch of revisionist history going on with this tragedy. A film has just been made, along with a play last year, that's trying to say "well there were some good things about Peoples Temple." Typical rationalization of socialism. Also, the director of this movie has an obvious left-leaning slant and is using the film to take veiled swipes at our government and how it's fighting the War on Terror. They came just recently to my area for a screening. There's a lot of unsavory things these filmmakers don't want to reveal, about corruption among S.F. clergy, politicians and the media who were all complicit in Jones rise to infamy.
I wrote a term paper on Jim Jones in college.
He was one of the early adopters of the current crop of churches who teach, give, give, give, the rich won't go to heaven, Jesus would have been a communist, etc.
These reformist churches are more of the norm now, most non-orthodox jewish synagogues preach this, many christian and catholic churches have gone this route, too, politics is everywhere.
And his church was in Indianapolis before San Fran. However, communism doesn't go over well with Hoosiers so he skeddadled to the workers paradise of San Fran for a more accepting environment.
Most of the Jonestown followers were black women and radical white idealists.Anyone who knows anything about life in the Fillmore or Hunter’s Point will understand why these women followed this Great White God to the socialist promised land.Its easy to fall for the oaky doke when your life is a welfare laden mess and your kids and grandkids are out of your control.
And the white radicals needed a new Cuba.There was no more SDS or Yippies.But the Reverend Jones promised a socialist utopia in South America.So they tried to hang on to a past that had died years before.
And we all know how it all went down.
‘The Davidians were shot and burned to death by an incompetent, out of control government agency ‘
Thats simply not true, excluding the firefight the first day at the Davidian compound.
Don’t misunderstand me, I think the ATF and everybody involved in the ‘raid’ screwed up big time, in a vain attempt to gain some publicity and additional funding for their respective agencies.
but that last day, the Davidians ‘shot and burned to death’ at their own hands.
To me,the true horror was all the young children that were killed by their own mothers,almost all black women.It was the precursor to the Eighties crack epidemic where black women abandoned their own children to give all to a death drug.
I lived in The City back in those days.Something evil was in the air.It was an omen of things to come.
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