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Bobos say no-no (National Review urbanite frets about religious conservatives bringing us down)
National Review Online ^ | Nov 16 2006 | Jonathan Martin

Posted on 11/16/2006 8:19:09 AM PST by Mamzelle

Martin wants to point out that if it weren't for the icky evangelicals, we'd still have Allen as Senator in Va.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: allen; bobos; intellectualoids; jonathanmartin; theocracy; theophobia; virginia; webb
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But Martin doesn't point out that 90% of N VA Muslims voted for Webb, to the tune of 50K votes. That doesn't worry the "creative class" of sophisticated independents (or Martin, I guess) as much as those religious Christians.
1 posted on 11/16/2006 8:19:10 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

If it weren't for the evangelicals, we'd be living in a Socialist Sweden.


2 posted on 11/16/2006 8:20:35 AM PST by Elpasser
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To: Elpasser
There are many forces at work to cut the evangelicals loose from the GOP--not the least of which are "intellectual" snobs at National Review whose sheltered little world begins and stops with Central Park and all those cool Manhattan restaurants.

Then there's the Jack Warren (Purpose Driven Life) phenomena. The religious who get cold-shouldered by the Republicans who are embarrassed to be seen with them will have somewhere to go.

3 posted on 11/16/2006 8:23:55 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
Martin wants to point out that if it weren't for the icky evangelicals Muslim voters voting for Webb(D), we'd still have Allen as Senator in Va.
4 posted on 11/16/2006 8:24:42 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: Mamzelle
But Martin doesn't point out that 90% of N VA Muslims voted for Webb, to the tune of 50K votes.

Muslim are among those Allen was exactly counting on voting for him in the first place. How many Muslims voted for Allen in 2000? That's like saying Allen lost because he only got 10% of the black vote. If he won in 2000 with 10% he should have won in 2006. He must have lost part of his base or independents in order for him to lose.

5 posted on 11/16/2006 8:25:49 AM PST by LWalk18
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To: Mamzelle
1.) Without us, the Dems would have all three Houses and permanent supermajorities.

2.) The social Libertarian/secular Republican group is waaaaaaay smaller than he wants to admit, as most of those people waffle during elections and prefer to be called Moderates and Independents. About 90% of those that actually exist write for these type of publications.

3.) Without us, 5% of this country would be in support of the Iraq war (reconstruction, that is) right now.

4.) Martin types don't work phone banks, organize 503-C groups, walk precincts in the last 72-hours, raise massive small donations, or volunteer time after work to help individual campaigns.

Come to think of it, Martin is more worthless to the actual GOP than anyone I can think of right now.
6 posted on 11/16/2006 8:26:18 AM PST by TitansAFC ("Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead.")
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To: LWalk18

Hey back in 2000 and before Muslims tipped Republican which helped in Virginia and even kept Michigan in play. Since 9/11 they've gone Dem and now Michigan and New Jersey look impossible and Virginia looks bluer everyday.


7 posted on 11/16/2006 8:28:28 AM PST by NeoCaveman (Mike Pence for House Minority Leader and John Shadegg for Whip)
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To: LWalk18
Martin's essay contends that the suburbanite voter doesn't like to vote with the religious conservative. The suburbanite "creative class" (what a profoundly self-adoring term is that, BTW! What fatuity!) minds having to rub elbows with conservative Christians.

And, you know, I'll bet Martin minds it too. He sounds so pained and wincing--Coulter really got it right about NR girlie boys.

So the "creative class" minds not at all voting with the Muslims in VA--10% or whatevah.

8 posted on 11/16/2006 8:30:49 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: TitansAFC
1.) Without us, the Dems would have all three Houses and permanent supermajorities.

Salt is a preservative, but if the nation loses it's saltiness, what good is it? The religious right in this country is a restrainer. Without it, excessive liberalism would have free reign.

9 posted on 11/16/2006 8:31:12 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: Mamzelle
Martin wants to point out that if it weren't for the icky evangelicals, we'd still have Allen as Senator in Va.

Well fine! I'm taking my vote and going home.

;-)

10 posted on 11/16/2006 8:34:40 AM PST by The Blitherer (In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.)
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To: Mamzelle
There's extreme liberalism on the far left. There's evangelicals on the right. With two opposing forces, our nation has balance. Sometimes Satan wins, sometimes God.

If one side were given a clear path for too long, the nation would either become a Stalinist state or a theocracy. With both, the nation still has the freedom to choose. It can "lean" one way or the other, but the nation has restraint.
The religious right is more necessary and has a lot more value than many republicans think.

11 posted on 11/16/2006 8:42:40 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: Mamzelle
They key, Davis says, is “to know how to talk to” what he called this “creative class.” To this end, it was Allen’s good-ole-boy persona that turned off many, Davis argues, not necessarily the senator’s party brand or conservative stands on issues. Davis, himself a moderate, pointed out that his wife, a Fairfax state senator, and neighboring Rep. Frank Wolf (R.), both pro-life, get elected thanks to thousands of moderate suburbanite votes.

I don't know whether we're reading the same article.

12 posted on 11/16/2006 8:42:59 AM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: TitansAFC

I thought there was more of a variance of opinion among Evangelicals regarding the war in Iraq. Yes, I would say that this group is among the more patriotic of Americans, but even they can recognize a stupid decision when they see one. The dilemma is this for me; Should we have gone into Iraq in the first place?--- NO. But the president made the decision to go in, we are there, the place is a mess, do we just cut and run?----NO. The Democrats obviously don't have a good enough answer for me. It is difficult for the American psyche to accept losing in war and sometimes we can be bullheaded. I really feel that if we cut and run at this point, the situation will be worse for America than it would ever would have been if we never went into Iraq in the first place. The main problem is that we didn't go in their to kick a$$--we went in there as social workers. So you not only have left over Baathists & jihadis with guns. You have local Sunni and Shiite militias, plain old thugs, and US trained Iraqi security forces with guns all trying to get a piece of the action and seeking vengeance----chaos par excellance. The only chance of salvaging the situation is to do some a$$ kicking--starting with the Mahdi Army. Sadr is an Iranian puppet. If we string his behind up on a lamp post it will send a message to Iran that we're not joking. I know this is wishful thinking at this point in time--Bush ain't gonna go there. So what do you think? Pull out gradually and give the appearance that we've accomplished something more than just removing Saddam Hussein from power? Also---allow every Chaldean Christian to come to the US, because we all know they will eventually be massacred (another thing the Bushies don't give a hoot about).


13 posted on 11/16/2006 8:56:09 AM PST by brooklyn dave (Dhimmis better not be Dhummis!!!!------or else!!!)
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To: brooklyn dave
NO. But the president made the decision to go in,

BOTH parties made the decision to go in based on the same evidence. This is Americas war - not Bush's war as the left would have you believe.

14 posted on 11/16/2006 9:01:28 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: brooklyn dave
Bump your post. I had many misgivings about Iraq as well, but I kept my mouth shut out of hope, faith, and loyalty.

I'm noticing that that loyalty is not reciprocated--Bush has an insane obsession with handing America over to Mexico and seemed quite content Wednesday to throw the conservatives overboard.

Bush risked the WOT so he could canoodle with Vicente. If we can't protect our own borders, if he had no regard for American sovereignty, we can't turn this mess in the sand into a democracy.

15 posted on 11/16/2006 9:02:35 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
Yeah I'm sure the old predictable wet-napkins will be on FOX this weekend. Bill Kristol with that stupid (I just farted) grin on his face, still glowing from Rummy getting the boot, and the other blue-blood republicans up there.
16 posted on 11/16/2006 9:05:37 AM PST by FreedomNeocon (Success is not final; Failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts -- Churchill)
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To: Mamzelle
What a math-impaired idiot.

I suppose he wants to go back to the days of permanent minority when the country-clubbers were the pubbie base?

17 posted on 11/16/2006 9:16:37 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: concerned about politics

The evidence was quite faulty. I agree that it is America's war, not just Bush's. But Bush is the Commander in Chief. The thing about the left is that they would be against Bush no matter what he did or didn't do. I am against him for what he did. (but at least we got two good SCOTUS appointments out of it).


18 posted on 11/16/2006 9:33:09 AM PST by brooklyn dave (Dhimmis better not be Dhummis!!!!------or else!!!)
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To: Mamzelle

You are ill-informed. NAFTA (Clinton and Bush) is the future. Even Ross Perot has learned this fact and is building his new factory in Guadalajara, Mexico. He will hire 170 engineers along with the hundreds of staff. Homes will be built for them as in "housing tracks". Americans will move there and commute back and forth. Perot's project will be copied by many others. The time will come when the enviromentalists will destroy even Mexico. However, Capitalist will move on to other opportunities.


19 posted on 11/16/2006 9:34:08 AM PST by Blake#1
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To: Blake#1
re: Perot has learned this fact and is building his new factory in Guadalajara)))

A stupid move. What he saves in salaries will be spent to maintain a small private army to protect his personnel from the corrupt Mexican mafia. Holding executives for ransom is a growing business.

20 posted on 11/16/2006 9:44:17 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

Apparently the Bushies have a vested private interest with Mexico. OK you can say that Fox's party is better than the PRI that ruled Mexico for 70 years (they could easily make a comeback)--but all in all Mexico's government is still oligarchical and corrupt. I take a semi-Buchananite approach to immigration. (If you take a full fledged Buchananite approach, it can border on racism) It is primarily the upper classes of American society that are benefiting from illegal immigration. Does it really matter that American will no longer be a majority white country in 2050? (i'll be dead) Buchanan sort of laments this in a round about way. On the face of it no--but the question arises that a flood of people who remain unassimilated not only in language but in attitudes will change the essence of what America has historically been. Basically, it will not be the same country because the civil values will be inherently different. The left sees this as an attack on the inherent goodness and self worth of the individual immigrant--it is not.


21 posted on 11/16/2006 9:47:30 AM PST by brooklyn dave (Dhimmis better not be Dhummis!!!!------or else!!!)
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To: brooklyn dave
re: It is primarily the upper classes of American society that are benefiting from illegal immigration. )))

Yeah, the Mrs. Snows of the party do like their humble, cheap, easily intimidated house help.

22 posted on 11/16/2006 9:51:19 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
Martin wants to point out that if it weren't for the icky evangelicals, we'd still have Allen as Senator in Va

I didn't see that in the article. Sabato wants you to believe that, but we know, by now, that he's a demowhore.

The article is really about changing demographics in border regions. For example, fairfax county has an influx of new residents from more liberal Washington and Maryland. These residents are moving because their politics have made their former residences uninhabitable. Unfortunately, they bring their same stupid political beliefs with them. Leftists have a lot of trouble understanding cause and effect.

Richard Pombo had the same problem here in CA. New residents from the liberal Bay Area cost him his seat.

23 posted on 11/16/2006 10:26:12 AM PST by stop_fascism
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To: Mamzelle

I think what we are seeing in DC (with the election of lott) is the sheltered intelectual snobs trying their take over of the belt way.


24 posted on 11/16/2006 10:54:50 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
We've got Human Events--but what other media does conservatism (and I don't mean the Mel Martinez Non-passionate Conservatism) have? NRO is so effete, sterile and silly sometimes, like some Ivy League College Republican club that tries real hard to fit in with the liberal chic.

Catholics, a few Jews, one secular Anglican...it seems to have missed the attn of NR that evangelicals even exist, much less make up a huge part of the conservative voting base. Although, every once in a while they'll run a story on conservative non-Catholic Christians a la "National Geographic Presents"...usually with a title like, "Evangelicals Might Not Be So Awful" or some such patronizing stuff.

Meanwhile, Obama is flattering a very influential Christian writer and pastor of a very large evangelical church...with some good success.

The GOP and the GOP "intellectuals" treats conservatives, and conservative Christians, like the Dems treat blacks.

25 posted on 11/16/2006 12:39:15 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: longtermmemmory

Ps--I don't think the litterati (sic) are happy with the Lott election. Lott owes no loyalty to Bush.


26 posted on 11/16/2006 12:40:11 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

Perhaps evangelicals should stage a mass "talking in tongues" and "falling down on the ground in spasms" rally at the mall in DC?

That would show them.


27 posted on 11/16/2006 3:19:10 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Libertarians are more conservative than pubbies. Strictest interpretation of the constitution,)
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To: Mamzelle

Who's Jonathon Martin?


28 posted on 11/16/2006 3:24:21 PM PST by TheLawyerFormerlyKnownAsAl
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To: Mamzelle
Hmm. I just read the article and I think there is a certain distortion to your summary that seems intended to rile folks up.

Very interesting.
29 posted on 11/16/2006 3:25:05 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: TitansAFC
"1.) Without us, the Dems would have all three Houses and permanent supermajorities."

No, without you, we would have attracted a lot more votes that were otherwise driven to the other side.

I myself almost did not vote because of religeous nutjobs. The day of voting, I held my nose and decided to do it one last time. And I was one of the 537 Volusia county voters who put W over the top in 2000. Stood on a street corner with a W sign during the recount. Poll watcher, and member here since 1997.

If you nutjobs are still around next election, I might vote dem.

BTW, when you respond, please fall on the floor and talk in tongues, nutcase.

30 posted on 11/16/2006 3:25:08 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Libertarians are more conservative than pubbies. Strictest interpretation of the constitution,)
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To: The Old Hoosier

Oh good. I'm not the only one that noticed.


31 posted on 11/16/2006 3:26:06 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: Mamzelle
Does he even mention religion or evangelicals? It looks like his point is that the GOP lost because it didn't have a style that could appeal to suburbanites:

Much like Davis, Oliver says Republicans don’t need “to abandon their conservative philosophy” to win in places like St. Louis and Fairfax County, they just need to talk to these suburbanites where they are.

You may see that as just code words, but if you take it on its face value, there is some truth in it. I don't know about Missouri, but it looked to me like Allen was trying to play a "good ol' boy" card that he didn't really have and didn't have to play to win, and that cost him the election. The next winning Republican will be more able to juggle the substance rural voters want with a style that won't grate on suburbanites.

32 posted on 11/16/2006 3:35:38 PM PST by x
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To: MonroeDNA
No, without you, we would have attracted a lot more votes that were otherwise driven to the other side.

You live in a dream world. Half of the house dems were elected as social conservatives. Your opinion of religion notwithstanding you don't know much about the recent election or the demographics of the current republican party.

To be blunt, the republican party can not win anything without those evil religious types.

33 posted on 11/16/2006 3:39:33 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: The Old Hoosier
Davis, himself a moderate, pointed out that his wife, a Fairfax state senator, and neighboring Rep. Frank Wolf (R.), both pro-life, get elected thanks to thousands of moderate suburbanite votes.

"I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth." - - Revelations 3:14, The New American Bible, Saint Joseph Edition

(By the way, the literal translation is actually "vomit", not "spit".)

34 posted on 11/16/2006 3:43:05 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: MonroeDNA; Jim Robinson
"No, without you, we would have attracted a lot more votes that were otherwise driven to the other side. I myself almost did not vote because of religeous nutjobs. The day of voting, I held my nose and decided to do it one last time. And I was one of the 537 Volusia county voters who put W over the top in 2000. Stood on a street corner with a W sign during the recount. Poll watcher, and member here since 1997. If you nutjobs are still around next election, I might vote dem.

The last time I checked FreeRepublic was still Conservative and Pro-Christianity. Maybe you think your 1997 sign-up gives you immunity to trash Christians. Maybe you're right.

35 posted on 11/16/2006 3:59:11 PM PST by Godebert
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To: Elpasser
If it weren't for the evangelicals, we'd be living in a Socialist Sweden.

The way the democrats are acting we will be as soon as they take over Congress.

36 posted on 11/16/2006 4:01:04 PM PST by ladyinred (RIP my precious Lamb Chop)
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To: Mamzelle

I still can't believe a Muslim was elected in this country post 911.


37 posted on 11/16/2006 4:01:31 PM PST by ladyinred (RIP my precious Lamb Chop)
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To: TheLawyerFormerlyKnownAsAl
He's a writer on NRO, known for being a writer on NRO--their masthead is made up of fragile urban conservatives of the blueblood tradition. Probably Ivy League with a red bowtie.

Before the election, the NRO had CATO expressing its distress at the social conservatives. Now, post election, we're once again the rube in the room.

And Polly--I've follwed NR for decades, all through the Buckley years when it was a largely lachrymose publication, but the only game in town. The religious right took the GOP from being "principled", idle, moribund, tea-sipping losers to being the vigorous Reagan party in power--and the NE purebreds never got over the embarrassment.

This Martin stuff is in a long line of NR's sterile expressions of distress over having to deal with a rural Protestant tradition.

38 posted on 11/16/2006 5:02:43 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: pollyannaish

see 38


39 posted on 11/16/2006 5:09:03 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: pollyannaish; Mamzelle
Hmm. I just read the article and I think there is a certain distortion to your summary that seems intended to rile folks up. Very interesting.

pollyannaish, you're right.

Mamzelle, you write very well. And you're quite the provocateur (provocateuse?).

Who are you? Ann Coulter?

40 posted on 11/16/2006 5:16:41 PM PST by shhrubbery! (Max Boot: Joe Wilson has sold more whoppers than Burger King)
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To: shhrubbery!; La Enchiladita
Wow--you just made my day.

Dissing Ann is one of the reasons I let my NR subscription lapse, among other reasons. They couldn't take her passion. Just too alive to be endured.

All that junk about "compassionate conservatism"--at the NR they're DISpassionate conservatives. Cold fish. As Enchiladita said today, and really caught my ear when discussing the tepid nomination of Mel Martiez to the RNC, don't they have any passion about anything?

The NR never bothered, in all their years, to lend any serious ear to the evangelicals, or religious right, or Christian Conservatives, or whatever you want to call them. They'd publish the occasional visit-to-the-zoo article about evangelicals, and even let a former convert to Catholicism from conservative Protestantism (Dreher) write a few columns. A southerner, even, imagine that.

41 posted on 11/16/2006 5:27:19 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

The religious right will simply have to accept that its only legitimate goal is for the government to stop helping its enemies (i.e. not implementing or funding liberal social engineering). Any desire for religious-right social engineering (e.g. the Internet gambling ban) must be explicitly disavowed.


42 posted on 11/16/2006 5:29:37 PM PST by steve-b (It's hard to be religious when certain people don't get struck by lightning.)
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To: MonroeDNA
See my previous comment. Can you outline what, precisely, would be a sufficient declaration by the religious right that they have recognized social engineering as evil and are willing to foreswear it?

(My answer: They need to undo the damage by actively pushing for repeal of nanny-state measures such as the Net gambling ban, the various bits of Net censorship that the courts haven't cleaned up yet, etc).

43 posted on 11/16/2006 5:33:38 PM PST by steve-b (It's hard to be religious when certain people don't get struck by lightning.)
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To: steve-b
The RR will eventually figure out that the elites can't even overcome their snobbism to hold onto power.
44 posted on 11/16/2006 5:39:15 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
It was Congressman Davis who used the term "creative class," not the author, and Davis is one of the smartest Pubbies in the House, and ran the successful House campaign operation in 2002 and 2004.

Methinks what we have here is a lashing out at the messenger.

45 posted on 11/16/2006 5:40:06 PM PST by Torie
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To: MonroeDNA

What in your mind constitutes a "religious nutjob," the influence of which in the GOP is sending you screaming to teh exits? This near atheist is just curious.


46 posted on 11/16/2006 5:43:06 PM PST by Torie
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To: Torie
The "creative class" is a term created to describe the intellectual worker, how he should be supported, and the cities he would most like find himself in. It was originally used to discuss "bobo" (bohemian bourgeois) towns like Austin, etc., who were attracting the quasi-showbidness types. "Bobos in Paradise" was a Brooks book.

I noticed the term years ago because it was so monumentally self-flattering --a class of people set apart by their superior vision and intelligence. After all, those not in the "creative class" would by extension be stupid classless drones.

The trouble with having our "literati" isolated in the NE cities of NY and DC is the obvious one of near-sightedness. When you're a conservative at a cocktail party, you have to endure the sophisticates' ridicule of those ignorant rubes who believe in Jesus Christ. After a while, you get to thinking that the whole world is like that.

Reagan knew who Joe Sixpack was. And he never treated Joe like an idiot.

Joe Sixpack is much smarter than NR thinks he is, and he knows where he's not wanted.

47 posted on 11/16/2006 5:51:09 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
With all due respect...long-view context is all well and good as far as it goes. But when you wander so far from the actual text that what it really says ceases to matter, and essentially put huge amounts of stock in quotes from Larry Sabato of all people, I have to wonder about your agenda.

However, I will give you extra credit points for an eloquent and reasonable sounding defense.

That said, you didn't make your case in the face of the facts.
48 posted on 11/16/2006 5:53:04 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: pollyannaish
I spoke more to tone, not text. Instead of cringing and wincing, these weak sisters might try standing up for an ally, for a change.

Or, even, having a regular spot on their masthead for someone Not Our Kind, Deah. After thirty-odd years, it wouldn't kill 'em.

At least there's Human Events, Frontpagemag, etc.--but it galls me that erstwhile longtime conservative publications never notice on which side their political bread is buttered on--until they need someone to blame for going hungry. I guess you didn't catch the CATO last week.

49 posted on 11/16/2006 5:59:47 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

Class and cultural snobbery has been around since rocks cooled, and always will. To be honest with you, I don't know anybody, none, zippo, nada, where religion is a central theme in their life. In fact, I know few who bother to go to church/temple at all, and nobody but nobody talks about religion in conversation except myself, and I do it as a hobby and matter of intellectual interest. So I guess there real is a cultural divide when it comes to interpersonal contact.


50 posted on 11/16/2006 6:09:25 PM PST by Torie
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