Protesters occupy church in Turkey

Yahoo: Associated Press ^ | November 22, 2006 | BENJAMIN HARVEY

[Biggirl]

In truth the building does belong to the Christians/Orthodox and it would not suprise me if he does say a silent prayer.

[CT-Freeper]

Thanks for the ping...guess I'll post this prayer here as well..already put it on a different Benedict XVI thread...

Heavenly Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth takes its name, we humbly ask that you sustain, inspire, and protect your servant, Pope Benedict XVI, as he goes on pilgrimage to Turkey – a land to which St. Paul brought the Gospel of your Son; a land where once the Mother of your Son, the Seat of Wisdom, dwelt; a land where faith in your Son’s true divinity was definitively professed. Bless our Holy Father, who comes as a messenger of truth and love to all people of faith and good will dwelling in this land so rich in history. In the power of the Holy Spirit, may this visit of the Holy Father bring about deeper ties of understanding, cooperation, and peace among Roman Catholics, the Orthodox, and those who profess Islam. May the prayers and events of these historic days greatly contribute both to greater accord among those who worship you, the living and true God, and also to peace in our world so often torn apart by war and sectarian violence.

We also ask, O Heavenly Father, that you watch over and protect Pope Benedict and entrust him to the loving care of Mary, under the title of Our Lady of Fatima, a title cherished both by Catholics and Muslims. Through her prayers and maternal love, may Pope Benedict be kept safe from all harm as he prays, bears witness to the Gospel, and invites all peoples to a dialogue of faith, reason, and love. We make our prayer through Christ, our Lord. Amen.

Prayer composed by Bishop William E. Lori, supreme chaplain of the Knights of Columbus, for the Spiritual Pilgrimage with His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI on his Nov. 28-Dec. 1 pastoral visit to Turkey.

[Kolokotronis]

When +Paul VI visited Agia Sophia in 1967, at one point he turned to his Mohammedan minders and said, "You'll excuse me, I wish to pray" turned away, fell on his knees and prayed. The Turks just stood there stunned.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"I believe the catholic church has strayed from their salvation through Christ alone message over the years...

You should find this declaration, "The Lord Jesus" (Dominus Iesus) worth a glance, then, as clarifying that very important point.

[CottShop]

Whatever their doctines, most started preaching a type of 'Jesus +' salvation, and as a result, works became more important than faith in Christ- The Chruch was going the way of the Pharisees I'm afraid- NOT every diocese of course beleived works saved us, and they stuck to the word, but many did not and preached 'beleif' in Christ BUT coupled with a works based salvation. God clearly states in His word that it is by faith, and faith alone that man is saved, not by works, lest any man should boast- in other words, God's salvation is wholly dependant on Christ's finished work on the cross, not on how we act or conduct ourselves in this life. Chrurches err by preaching an ideology that we we 'attain' salvation by how we act., This is contrary to God's word, and it is contrary for a very specific reason- because if our salvation depended on how we conducted our lives, then we'd have cause to brag that 'we did it' we 'saved ourselves.' The priests started putting a burden upon the people that God never intended.

Doctines are fine, but when they aren't adhered to strictly, they don't account for much- for instance Christ has stated that HE is our highpriest aNd intercessory- NOT self elected priests. We have direct access to God through Jesus Christ who has said He is just and able to forgive us our sins. For manyyears, the congregation wasn't even admonished to read God's word for themselves- that is all changing now, though, as more andm ore Catholics are getting bakc to their foundations and learning that God has a direct relationship with each of us- no intercessory priest needed.

[To Hell With Poverty]

Wow, your story just gave me chills!

I had the luck of being an exchange student in Turkey during the summer of '89, and Hagia Sophia is probably my favorite place on earth. It truly does seem to hold a special presence of God, to this day.

[Bokababe]

"When +Paul VI visited Agia Sophia in 1967, at one point he turned to his Mohammedan minders and said, "You'll excuse me, I wish to pray" turned away, fell on his knees and prayed. The Turks just stood there stunned."

I was a kid back then, but I remember us seeing that story on the TV news, that and my dad & I saying, "Yes!!!!!!!!!!!"I have always been afraid that if I went to Istanbul and visitied Hagia Sophia, I would do the same -- and get thrown into a Turkish jail, ala "Midnight Express"!

About two years ago, I watched an show on Hagia Sophia on the Discovery Channel's "Engineering Marvels". The show had the Moslem curator (it's "a museum" now) talking about the tests that had been run on the structure of the building. It seems that even after more than 1,600 years, the mortar between the bricks in Hagia Sophia is still chemically active. They also used a computer model to simulate a 9.0 earthquake on the structure, and the curator said that the simulation did not even show a single crack at the magnitude! Even the curator and a number of engineers, while they sing the praises of Roman engineering, also say there are qualities to the structure that are incomprehensible to them.

[Biggirl]

That is why the Turks are keeping a close eye on this pope.

[Biggirl]

Hagia Sophia is truly built to stand the test of time.

[Frank Sheed]

An Assyrian Christian teen has been beheaded while at his work. He was murdered by Muslims because he is a Christian.

This means that another martyr for the Faith now stands before the Throne of Almighty God praying for the conversion of those very people who killed him. This youth, a saint, is begging God for forbearance. These folks just can't win a "war" being waged in heaven by saints they send there themselves.

[Bokababe]

This means that another martyr for the Faith now stands before the Throne of Almighty God praying for the conversion of those very people who killed him. This youth, a saint, is begging God for forbearance. These folks just can't win a "war" being waged in heaven by saints they send there themselves.

What beautiful thoughts!

[Straight Vermonter]

I wonder why do they refer to it as St Sofia? The church was dedicated to Holy Wisdom not to a saint named Sofia.

[Frank Sheed]

for instance Christ has stated that HE is our highpriest aNd intercessory- NOT self elected priests

There is ONLY one High Priest and that is Jesus Christ. Priests are CHOSEN by God to be "alter Christi"--other Christs--performing "in persona Christi"--in the person of Christ--the Sacred Mysteries that Jesus instructed priests to perform. So, no priest EVER chooses himself. That God often chooses fallible, sinful human reprobates to take His place in ministering to His Church is a great mystery. These men do have free will. That is the only explanation. However, HE did choose Judas after all. Only God knows why....!

[Frank Sheed]

The logic is inescapable. The number of martyrs in Africa, Indonesia, Pakistan, and elsewhere is rising steadily. The Church has always grown via the blood of martyrs. Think of its growth in the early centuries.

God's ways are not our ways...

[Frank Sheed]

The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.
+Tertullian+

[Bokababe]

"I wonder why do they refer to it as St Sofia? The church was dedicated to Holy Wisdom not to a saint named Sofia."

Although "Saint" and "Holy" do not directly translate, "Sophia" is the Greek word for "Wisdom".

Greek was the primary language of the early Church, which is why all the Gospels except Matthew were originally in Greek.

When the Eastern & Western Church were one & the Eastern & Western Empires were in regular communication with one another, Greek was the language of theology for both East and West, and Latin was used primarily for the secular purposes of both the Eastern & Western Roman Empires. But over the centuries (especially when Rome was cut off by the Barbarian invasions), the East began using Greek for both religious and secular purposes, and the West began using Latin for both religious and secular purposes.

There is one remnant of Greek still left in the Latin Mass though -- "Kyrie Eleison" is Greek for "Lord, have mercy".

[bboop]

They do? In Turkey? In the Middle East? Are you there, then? Or you know about it. I know they did it in the beautiful church in Bethlehem. An olive-wood carver came through California, from there. Said they had burned the tapestries with cigarettes and of course defacated in that church, etc.

Vile pigs.

[longtermmemmory]

In Isambul.

The do this to the orthodox patriachate. They should just return Agia Sophia and be foreced to acknowledge a vatican style nation within the former constantinople as a condition of the EU.

[CottShop]

Not sure where you get the 'other Christs' from- Can people be called by God to serve? Yep- absolutely, not gonna argue that- my points were that God informs us that we go directly to Him in prayer- not to priests- there's many passages talking about htis & these were suppressed from the early Christians when Romans took over the Church as a means of controlling the masses. The Romans saw the growing movement of Christianity and feared a rebellion against the Roman empire- There are some other things that were done as a means of control as well- this fella over on http://forums.canadiancontent.net/christian-discussion/47723-why-catholic-isnt-christian.html pretty well spells it out better than I could- it's the first post- then of course it typically goes for 5 pages of arguing- but his points pretty much sum up the errors that the early Catholic Church took (And again, NO not all early Catholics went that way & obeyed God and stayed the course, and many Catholic churches today have moved away from the control ideology of the early movement & gotten backto God's word, and are truly saved.

[Frank Sheed]

my points were that God informs us that we go directly to Him in prayer- not to priests

And I suppose you believe in 7 sacraments? I doubt it which is why you are wrong. Your church has only two sacraments: baptism and matrimony. Sorry that you are missing out on the other 5 Christ instituted.

there's many passages talking about htis & these were suppressed from the early Christians when Romans took over the Church as a means of controlling the masses.

Sure.... The Romans took over the Church and butchered, crucified and burned hundreds of thousands of Christians who received the authentic message of Christ from His Apostles by word of mouth and then finally in writing. Think what you are saying! How could Rome take over a Church when it was busy worshipping pagan deities!

his points pretty much sum up the errors that the early Catholic Church took

Right. The Catholic Church over five centuries fought every heresy that cropped up from the belief that God was dual: good and evil, to the fact that Christ was not really God but only a very good man. Read the Early Church Fathers, man! And you believe this bunk??!

Sorry, the Catholic Church GAVE you the Bible you are reading today before you began ripping out Books during the Reformation. Believe what you wish; you are an authority of one. I'll believe what Christ taught Peter and which has passed down unbroken for 21 centuries. I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church!