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Nazi program still a source of pain
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ^ | November 25, 2006 | Mark Roth

Posted on 11/25/2006 1:54:06 AM PST by mcg2000

Lebensborn children feel shame of 'master race' ideology

Anne-Lise Fredriksen was walking on the beach one day during a Key West vacation when her husband told her to straighten up so her back wouldn't ache later.

To his shock, she burst into tears.

Her husband's innocent remark had dredged up a far darker memory, from the time when she was a young girl growing up in a fishing village in Norway, the child of a German father and a Norwegian mother.

Because her father had been a Nazi soldier during the occupation of Norway in World War II, children threw rocks at her, adults chased her away from public gatherings, and "I didn't eat because I wanted to be so skinny no one would see me."

She also walked bent over to avoid attention, but one woman in her village would always spot her and call out, "Straighten up! I can see you, you German kid."

That is the memory her husband unwittingly tapped into that day on the beach.

Mrs. Fredriksen is one of 9,000 to 12,000 Norwegian children who became part of the Nazis' Lebensborn program, which was begun by SS chief Heinrich Himmler to increase the supply of blond-haired, blue-eyed "Aryan" children.

In some ways, the Lebensborn effort -- it means "fountain of life" in German -- was the obverse of the Final Solution.

At the same time the Nazis were rounding up millions of Jews, Gypsies and others for slavery and execution in the concentration camps, they also began several programs to increase the "Germanification" of Europe.

The Lebensborn program began in the 1930s as a set of maternity homes in Germany for the wives of SS officers and for unwed mothers with the right traits, to ensure their children would be raised as good Nazis.

(Excerpt) Read more at postgazette.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Germany
KEYWORDS: aryan; hitler; lebensborn; nazi

1 posted on 11/25/2006 1:54:10 AM PST by mcg2000
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To: mcg2000

Such a sad sad memory it makes my heart ache for those innocent victims of demonic power mad men and the women who supported them!


2 posted on 11/25/2006 2:09:36 AM PST by VOYAGER (,)
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To: mcg2000
Next month, the European Court of Human Rights has scheduled a hearing in a case brought by several Norwegian Lebensborn children, seeking damages from their nation for the abuse they suffered growing up.

In case someone wonders about the recent spate of stories. New secrets of Hitler revealed
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1733537/posts
Waterbury Republican-American ^ | November 6, 2006 | Melissa Eddy (A.P.)

Germans tell of secret Nazi program
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1732524/posts
AP Via Yahoo ^

And earlier stories:

Innocent Children of Hitler's Racial Master Plan Still Haunt Norway 60 Years After War's End
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1361549/posts

Norway's abused war children move step closer to compensation
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/802835/posts

3 posted on 11/25/2006 2:17:50 AM PST by PAR35
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To: mcg2000
In some ways, the Lebensborn effort -- it means "fountain of life" in German ...

Another author who can't do any research:

Lebensborn (Source of Life, in German)... From here.

A simple search would have given him the meaning of the word "lebensborn".

4 posted on 11/25/2006 2:41:55 AM PST by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: raybbr

It can be translated in several other ways while remaining legitimate - wellspring is also another common translation.

Wikipedia allows too much open input from posters ... I listened to a WSJ Radio program the other morning about the fact aspect of Wikipedia losing it's dependability.


5 posted on 11/25/2006 3:24:02 AM PST by mcg2000 (New Orleans: The city that declared Jihad on The Red Cross.)
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To: mcg2000
"Mrs. Fredriksen is one of 9,000 to 12,000 Norwegian children who became part of the Nazis' Lebensborn program, which was begun by SS chief Heinrich Himmler to increase the supply of blond-haired, blue-eyed "Aryan" children."....... I wonder how many "other" children were born to "married" German/Norwegian couples? (It would appear that most just went on with their lives.) Also, how many Russian/German children were born out of wedlock in 1946? (We don't see/hear much about them.) (Maybe now with the declining birth rate in Western Europe, they should consider re instituting a similar program?) Wars have a tendency to produce children by invaders. Ever hear of Amerasians? I'm sure the Romans, Mongols, Huns, etc. did their fair share too. Mrs. Fredricksen didn't ask to be born, and for that reason alone they should not have picked on her. No child can pick out its parents. Also, Out of the approximately 300,000 German troops occupying Norway, how many were SS? There were SS units in Hungary and Berlin at the wars end that were made up of Norwegians, but were there SS Divisions actually stationed in Norway? I have always been under the impression that Norway was invaded only because German Intel. discovered the British plan to use it as a base. Norway could have remained neutral, like Sweden had the British not intended to use it. Thus Norway and Mrs Fredricksen ended up as victims of circumstance.
6 posted on 11/25/2006 4:33:12 AM PST by Bringbackthedraft (Thank you John Kerry, we never doubted your feelings towards us. Loser!)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
Mrs. Fredricksen didn't ask to be born, and for that reason alone they should not have picked on her.

Who are "they"?

7 posted on 11/25/2006 5:32:26 AM PST by BubbaHeel
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To: VOYAGER
Such a sad sad memory it makes my heart ache for those innocent victims of demonic power mad men and the women who supported them!

I dunno - in theory, the children should bear no responsibility for the crimes of their ancestors.

Now this is a difficult thought to elucidate [which probably indicates that it's not much of a thought in the first place], but if the children turn their backs on hope, and embrace despair, then maybe they DO become every bit as guilty as their parents.

Freedom or tyranny, life or death, nurture or murder, hope or despair, love or - what's the opposite of love? Nihilism? Materialism? Some kind of pure, unadulterated iniquity*?

Choices, choices, choices...

 

[*Or maybe Love doesn't have an opposite...]

8 posted on 11/25/2006 5:42:23 AM PST by BubbaHeel
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Norway was a supply base for a number of German minerals and the hope of attaining hard water. Britain offered arms and men to build up a force to prevent a possible German invasion- Norway said no thank you. Quisling - a Norwegian Nazi opened Norway for an easy take over by Germany. Sweden opened her ports and railroads to be used by the Germans so that Germany could capture Norway. Sweden collaborated with the Nazis. Sweden openly sold the Nazis minerals, weapons etc... -- so much for a neutral Sweden -- Norway and Sweden were OPENLY sympathetic to the NAZIS, even today Sweden and Norway have prevented NAZI hunters from arresting NAZI criminals from being arrested -- Norway and Sweden are NO friends of the Human race -- lastly thousand and thousands of Norwegians openly volunteered to fight for the NAZIS, many joined the SS. Both Germany and Norway during WWII issued postage stamps honoring the Norwegian assistance to the NAZI war effort. Today Sweden and Norway openly hate Israel. All I can say is Norway and Sweden are getting exactly what they deserve as they nations are dying and turning into hot spots for islamic growth! All Sweden and Norway care about are money -- just like france.


9 posted on 11/25/2006 6:03:07 AM PST by GaryMontana (islam, the Nazis of today must either be destroyed -- or the human race will perish)
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To: GaryMontana

I don't know why I bother, but nearly every sentence in your farcical comment is false, and the rest are misleading.


10 posted on 11/25/2006 6:11:00 AM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: raybbr
Another author who can't do any research

Actually, it is you who needs to do a little more research. In many European languages, the word for "source" and the word for "fountain" or "spring" are one and the same.

The English word "source", in fact, comes from the French word "source", which means "spring." Foreign film aficionados will recall the movie "Manon des sources", which was translated into English as "Manon of the Spring."

In German, the words "Born", "Brunnen" and "Quelle" all signify a source of water like a spring, well or fountain. I don't know enough German to know the shades of meaning between the words, but any of them can be used in the sense that we in English would use the word "source".

"Born", I think, is a more archaic or dialectical usage that might be used poetically, in the same way that an English speaker might use the word "font" instead of "fountain" or "source".

So in the end, it is a matter of how the word is translated. Perhaps the best translation of "Lebensborn" would be "wellspring of life".

-ccm

11 posted on 11/25/2006 6:46:47 AM PST by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: ProudNorseman
"...nearly every sentence in your farcical comment is false, and the rest are misleading."

Talk is cheap!

How about providing us with some proof rather than attacking someone who described Norway during WW2 as I recall it.

12 posted on 11/25/2006 6:53:25 AM PST by albee (The best thing you can do for the poor is.....not be one of them. - Eric Hoffer)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
Wars have a tendency to produce children by invaders. Ever hear of Amerasians?

Probably won't be any AmerIraqis.

13 posted on 11/25/2006 6:53:35 AM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: ccmay
English word search for "fountain":
On click in results search further in:
-
 English  German

fountain [listen] Brunnen {m} [listen]

fountains Brunnen {pl} [listen]

fountain [listen] Fontäne {f}; Springbrunnen {m}

fountains Fontänen {pl}; Springbrunnen {m}

fountain figure group Brunnenfigurengruppe {f}

fountain figure groups Brunnenfigurengruppen {pl}

fountain pen; pen [listen] Füllfederhalter {m}; Füller {m} [listen]

fountain pens; pens Füllfederhalter {pl}; Füller {pl} [listen]

fountain of youth Jungbrunnen {m}

basin of a fountain Brunnenbecken {n}

sculpture on a fountain; fountain figure Brunnenfigur {f}

fountain; fountain head [listen] Quelle {f} [listen]

No mention of "born".

Search for the German word "born":

On click in results search further in:
-
 German  English

geboren {adj} [listen] born [listen]

Ich wurde 1964 geboren. I was born in 1964.

tot geboren still-born

geborene nee; née

Christiane von Goethe, geborene Vulpius Christiane von Goethe, née Vulpius

gebären; zur Welt bringen; hervorbringen {vt} to bear {bore; born, borne}; to give birth [listen] [listen]

gebärend; zur Welt bringend birthing

geboren; zur Welt gebracht [listen] born; borne [listen] [listen]

ich gebäre I bear

du gebierst; du gebärst you bear

sie gebiert; sie gebärt she bears

ich/sie gebar I/she bore

sie hat/hatte geboren he/she has/had born

ich/sie gebäre I/she would bear

gebier!; gebär! bear!

ich/er/sie wurde geboren I/he/she was born

No mention of fountain. If I were to tranlate "lebensborn" literally it would be "birth of life". That makes more sense then "fountain of life".

Other searches I did brought the general meaning to be "source of life".

I stand by my criticism.

"Born", I think, is a more archaic or dialectical usage that might be used poetically, in the same way that an English speaker might use the word "font" instead of "fountain" or "source".

We are not talking about archaic German.


14 posted on 11/25/2006 6:55:14 AM PST by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: raybbr

Get a life! rotfl!!!


15 posted on 11/25/2006 6:58:02 AM PST by mcg2000 (New Orleans: The city that declared Jihad on The Red Cross.)
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To: albee

As you recall it? Yeah, right! I remember you from a previous discussion of WWII. You set a new standard for ignorance and childish idiocy. Go back to your X-box and ask your mom to make you a pizza.


16 posted on 11/25/2006 7:02:54 AM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: mcg2000
Get a life! rotfl!!!

Ich habe ein Leben. Aber, heute ich bin zu arbeit so Ich habe viele zeit.

17 posted on 11/25/2006 7:16:53 AM PST by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: raybbr; mcg2000
We are not talking about archaic German.

Hey, Hitler and his henchmen named the "Lebensborn" program, not me. Take it up with them. Hitler loved archaic and poetic German; he saw it as patriotic.

Here's a page in German containing the text "Born = Brunnen/Quelle". It has a picture of a village water fountain beside it for the linguistically challenged such as yourself: Bornum am Elm. It notes that "Born" is a Low German term for what would be called "Brunnen" or "Quelle" in High German, i.e. a well or source.

Oh, and here's a page from a German thesaurus: Synonyme Born, Brunnen, Quelle.

I stand by my criticism.

Feel free, but know that your criticism is based on dubious sources (heh heh) like Wikipedia, would not be shared by any native speaker of German, and gives you precious little standing from which to criticize the research of others.

-ccm

18 posted on 11/25/2006 7:23:04 AM PST by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: ProudNorseman
Thanks for your rant!

Now can you supply me with the facts that I requested?

If you can't, you should quit making lying staements and just shut up.

19 posted on 11/25/2006 7:37:38 AM PST by albee (The best thing you can do for the poor is.....not be one of them. - Eric Hoffer)
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To: ccmay
Here's a page in German containing the text "Born = Brunnen/Quelle". It has a picture of a village water fountain beside it for the linguistically challenged such as yourself: Bornum am Elm. It notes that "Born" is a Low German term for what would be called "Brunnen" or "Quelle" in High German, i.e. a well or source.

Okay. I stand corrected.

I did more than search wikipedia. There were several sources that referred to "lebensborn" as "source of life" and not "fountain of life".

20 posted on 11/25/2006 7:38:44 AM PST by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: albee
What facts specifically did you request, kiddo?

The last time I had the displeasure of interacting with you, I supplied quite a lot of facts for your education, as did several others. It proved a complete waste of our time, since you proved as unable to change your mind as to rebut or counter our evidence. A Danish gentleman concluded thus (in Danish, my transl:) "He [albee] is just as brat who has grown up in front of the TV."

21 posted on 11/25/2006 7:53:52 AM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: albee

Here's the thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1625150/posts


22 posted on 11/25/2006 7:58:38 AM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: ProudNorseman
What is your problem...don't you understand English?

In your response to Gary Montana, you wrote "I don't know why I bother, but nearly every sentence in your farcical comment is false, and the rest are misleading.

I asked you for some proof...you couldn't provide it.

I hope you know English well enough to understand this advice:

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool rather than speaking and removing all doubts!"

23 posted on 11/25/2006 8:04:16 AM PST by albee (The best thing you can do for the poor is.....not be one of them. - Eric Hoffer)
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To: albee
I'm afraid it's you who are linguistically challenged, and that in your mother tongue. How else could you fail to comprehend my expressed refusal, based upon prior acquaintance with your brick-like intellect, to debate this topic with you? My comment was in reply to GaryMontana, and if HE asks me to elaborate, I shall do so.

I hope you understand English well enough to understand this advice:

For the second time, go back to your X-box.

24 posted on 11/25/2006 8:13:41 AM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: ProudNorseman
Still can't answer the questions, eh?

You should consider changing your screen name to "NotSoBrightNorseman" or is that being redundant?

25 posted on 11/25/2006 8:35:30 AM PST by albee (The best thing you can do for the poor is.....not be one of them. - Eric Hoffer)
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To: albee
Still don't get the point, eh? Oh, I found the comment by Danish freeper danamco which I quoted from memory above. Here's the exact wording of his opinion of you, which I think is accurate if a little too kind:

Det er fuldstaendigt haabloest at have en saglig debat med en snot unge uden nogensomhelst grundig viden om verdens historie i det hele taget. En absolut idiot der er vokset op foran fjersyns skaermen!

albee behovever et godt spark i roeven eller nogen til at banke en lille bitte smule fornuft i en fuldstaendig tom hjerne kranium!!

137 posted on 05/04/2006 10:42:05 PM PDT by danamco

Which translates as:

"It's totally hopeless to have a rational debate with a snotty kid without any thoroughgoing knowledge of world history whatsover. An absolute idiot who has grown up in front of the television screen!

albee needs a good kick in his ass or for someone to knock a whit of sense into a completely empty cranium!"

Maybe your mommy could perform the service, after the pizza?

26 posted on 11/25/2006 8:45:40 AM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: Bringbackthedraft
Norway could have remained neutral, like Sweden had the British not intended to use it. Thus Norway and Mrs Fredricksen ended up as victims of circumstance.

Germany invaded Norway for several reasons.
1. The heavy water plants of Norsk-Hydro they needed for their atomic program.
2. Bases for there Navy, so that it could not be bottled up in the Baltic.
3. It also provided a base for its Air Force.

However it would have been a very poor choice for an Invasion of the Continent by the Allies. You would need to land a force across 500 miles of the North Sea, fight your way across rugged mountains of Central Norway that would have been a defenders paradise, then across Sweden and around the Baltic Sea or another water invasion across the Skagarak to Denmark.

One more point I would like to make is that the Norwegians fought and resisted and many good men died for it. The Swedes did not do a God Da-- thing except use their industry to support the Nazi War Machine. We should have bombed the Swedish Factories as we did the German factories!

27 posted on 11/25/2006 12:17:56 PM PST by cpdiii (Oil Field Trash and proud of it, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, Iconoclast)
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To: albee; ProudNorseman

read my post 27


28 posted on 11/25/2006 12:21:29 PM PST by cpdiii (Oil Field Trash and proud of it, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, Iconoclast)
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To: Last Dakotan
Probably won't be any AmerIraqis.

If there's skirt. Those soldiers will be chasing and catching it.

29 posted on 11/25/2006 12:28:37 PM PST by bad company ([link:www.truthout.org/docs_2006/083006J.shtml | The Path to 9/11])
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To: cpdiii
The Germans invaded Norway in part to secure the vital iron ore from Sweden and to keep the British from establishing bases that threatened their impending offensive again the West.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

30 posted on 11/25/2006 12:31:03 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: ProudNorseman
I guess you never heard of Quisling and the thousands of Norwegians who volunteered to fight for the Nazis. There are even postage stamps to verify this fact. As for what I said, it is the truth -- The British offered aid to help Norway before the Nazi take over -- which Quisling and his co-Norwegians set up. Today Norway won't even allow the capture of former SS guards who helped run the NAZI concentration camps. Norway has a horrible record of hatred toward the Jews.
31 posted on 11/26/2006 6:07:26 AM PST by GaryMontana (islam, the Nazis of today must either be destroyed -- or the human race will perish)
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To: GaryMontana
To presume that a Norwegian is unfamiliar with Quisling is a bit ridiculous. I even posted an article on the man, which might alleviate your own apparent ignorance on the subject.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1704952/posts?page=4#4

The British offered aid to help Norway before the Nazi take over

I have never heard of this, so you'll have to be more specific. Perhaps you are thinking of the British and French request to send an expeditionary force of 15,000 through Norway and Sweden to aid Finland against the Soviet Union. This was declined by Norway and Sweden on March 2, as the countries wanted to stay formally neutral. However, Norway secretly sent its own supplies of ammo and artillery to help the Finns, weakening its capacity to resist the German invasion.

The failure to foresee the latter is regrettable, but hindsight is 20/20. Even British intelligence was unable to predict it as late as the evening of April 8, when the German fleet was in motion for Operation Weserübung. Your claim that Britain had offered to land troops in Norway to rebuff a German invasion, besides being unmentioned by any other source I've ever seen, is implausible for this reason alone.

Someone else who was caught by surprise on April 9. was Quisling. He had not been notified about the German plan, in part because he was a non-entity at the time and in larger part because Berlin didn't trust him. The historians are unanimous on this point: although Quisling had proposed a German intervention in Berlin in December 1939, Hitler left him out of the planning (and in fact, did not decide on the invasion until after the Altmark incident of February 16). In their turn, the Germans were unprepared for Quisling's opportunistic coup d'état by radio after the King, Parliament, and Government had left the capital.

So much for your claim that "Quisling and his co-Norwegians set up" the German invasion. And pray tell, what do you mean by his "co-Norwegians"? Are you unaware of the elementary fact that Quisling was acting in his private capacity without any political office whatsoever, having repeatedly failed to win a seat in Parliament for his tiny fascist party, whose best result in a national election was two -- 2 -- percent? Two percent is also the proportion of Norwegians who joined his party during the occupation, when it was the only one allowed and a must for making any sort of career. How does that fit your ill-informed (if not just dishonest) attempt to paint the Norwegian people as glowing Nazis?

Don't you know that Quisling was hated outright by the vast majority of Norwegians to such an extent that he positively boosted the resistance, and that his execution in October 1945 was an occasion of national celebrationO? Or that, even in his capacity as "Minister President" from 1942, he was a mere figurehead for the terroristic occupational government of Reichskommissar Joseph Terboven?

You seem to be under the impression that Norway's legitimate government during the occupation was pro-German. That must be why you are making song and dance about the stamps being issued to honor Norwegian SS recruits. If you really didn't know that the King and Government evacuated to London in June 1940, whence they led the resistance as a recognized full ally, they you really ought to shut up about all this. (Incidentally, the Crown Princess virtually lived in the White House with her children -- including the current king, Harald V -- as guests of President Roosevelt).

While it's true that several thousand Norwegians joined the Waffen SS, it's misleading to suggest that most of these were ideological Nazis. Research has shown that the majority were anti-communists who joined to fight against the Soviet Union rather than for Germany. Additionally, many had joined to fight in and for Finland in keeping with a pre-existing mercenary tradition, but found themselves deployed to the Eastern Front in spite of promises made. All survivors were tried and punished upon liberation.

The Norwegian anti-Nazi effort, which you perversely leave out of your specious argument, was rather more significant to the outcome of World War II. If Norway was so sympathetic to the Nazi German cause, perhaps you might explain why none -- 0 -- of Norwegian merchant ships obeyed the order from the occupational gov't to seek neutral or German harbor. All of the more than 1,000 ships (26 million metric tons brutto, 26,000 crewmen) went into Allied service.

This merchant fleet, the most modern in the world and the 4th largest, took part in virtually every Allied naval operation worldwide from the Murmask convoys to Malta, Egypt, South-America and Australia, as well as the invasions of Sicily, the Pacific Islands, Morocco, and Normandie. In 1941-42 it delivered 30-40 percent of all oil to Britain, and was appraised by a British military journal to have the equivalent value to a million troops. The losses it incurred amounted to 40 percent of the pre-war tonnage and inflicted on Norway a higher per capita death toll than the USA.

The proceeds allowed the government-in-exile to reconstruct a navy and air force, based in Canada and Britain. Although small in number, these forces participated in a long list of operations from sinking the battle cruiser Scharnhorst, via bombing raids in Germany, to D-day. Other Norwegian contributions include the commando operations against the heavy water facility in Telemark, which British SOE called the most successful act of sabotage in WWII, and the military intelligence network XU whose spies, such as Sverre Bergh, kept the Allies posted on the most important German weapons programmes including V1-V2 and Wasserfall, the world's first ground-to-air missile. The highest decorated Allied naval officer of WWII was one Commander Leif Larsen, whose crew operated a near-suicidal ferry line between Western Norway and Shetland, supplying Norwegian partisans (some 50,000 strong) at daunting odds.

It seems the particular axe you are grinding concerns Norwegian (and Swedish) treatment of Jews. I'll deal with your preposterous allegations on that score in a later comment, if time permits. But I think it should be clear enough already that your accusation, "Norway [was] OPENLY sympathetic to the NAZIS, even today," is a disgraceful lie. Indeed, the decent course would be to apologize.

32 posted on 11/26/2006 9:57:53 AM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: ProudNorseman

Thanks for the actual information. You make a very solid case for your username.


33 posted on 11/26/2006 2:12:46 PM PST by KayEyeDoubleDee (const Tag &referenceToConstTag)
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee

Thanks. I do my best. ;-)


34 posted on 11/27/2006 1:20:26 PM PST by ProudNorseman
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