Posted on 11/30/2006 1:28:19 PM PST by shrinkermd
Naah, Iraq is a home country of Baghdad Bob, of rhetorical exaggeration, empty promises and drivers using both sides of the road to drive (right and left).
Nobody will keep track.
I'm not counting on it happening, but I wasn't counting on the dems taking the House and the Senate either.
And as for your question, the dems don't care about the effects of our pullout from Vietnam. As far as their concerned, Vietnam is a communist paradise.
So, since Iraq is full of bad drivers prone to exaggeration, the Islamic fanatics going to forget about the large Crusader army occupying their lands? A persuasive arguement, to be sure, but let's wait until next summer and see, shall we?
Sounds a little early. The security situation isn't exactly good right now and the Iraqi government and their PM haven't done much to inspire confidence. I think 07 would be the earliest possible date. I wouldn't be surprised if it took longer. I only hope that our leaders have the backbone to finish the mission. The consequences of an early pullout will be tremendous and may more than cancel out the benifits from the war.
The Saudis have already had a few things to say about that..namely, it won't happen. They are predominately Sunnis.
If we leave Iraq post haste..big brother Shiite (Iran) and big brother Sunni (Saudi Arabia)will have a loud disagreement in the former green zone. It won't be pretty. At the max..the US needs to standby in Iraq for now to be a referee. We had better be a fair and balanced one or somebody won't be happy. And we don't want anyone to be unhappy now do we? :)~(Barf)
There are two separate issues.
THE IRAQI MILITARY *CAN* FIGHT TO PREVENT A COUP D' ETAT AND IN CASE OF A FOREIGN INVASION, MIGHT, GIVEN ENOUGH US SUPPORT, REPEL THE ENEMY.
Hence, in a conventional war, it might be true that the Iraqi Military can be ready in 7 months.
THe Iraqi National Police are a different thing. They are responsible for LOCAL Peace and Order and all indicators tell us that they are practically helpless, especially in the SUNNI Triangle area. These are the front line fighters against daily murders and terrorism and they seem to be unable to do their job for several reasons ---
* They are themselves being targeted for killing.
* Corruption and Sectarian support
* Not enough training and equipment.
It is the Iraqi Police that will be the wildcard here. Unless they are able to handle local peace and order, we'll still have the same level of violence we are seeing now.
I can't help but wonder if after they hang Sadam, things will quite down...I get the feeling that he is stiring the pot there, don't know how, but I feel that.
The people elected this guy and I think they will stand behind him in the end of things....once they start taking more and more of the controlling in their country, and the more we fade out, I think the citizens there will even run out the insurgents...
I see good things coming along for this new country and I hope the rats dont ruin it for them....God knows President Bush is trying as hard as he can to help them....
He's got Iranian air power and assets all we have to do is leave so they can slaughter the Kurds and Sunnis because people voted for Pelosi.
The US needs a period of rest. Our divided society, negative MSM and leftwing anti war movement will undermind our war efforts no matter what the fight is because we are a democratic nation with all the vulnerabilities to dissent and sedition. Keeping out of overseas fights means we can save money on military operations and overseas aid. The US as a society needs to sort our what she wants. Job security versus free trade has emerged as a major defining issue that our government (Dems and GOP) can no longer ignore and unilaterally act upon behind the scenes anymore. Let the world be left to their own devices and within 20 years they will beg for US help and intervention (just like WWII). This time before we open our wallets we will remind our critics of what they called us, their anti American attitudes and make their people eat crap before we help them. Let us stop being generous idiots and demand something in return before we give out military, and humanitarian aid as well as the blood of our young soldiers. HOWEVER during this period of "isolation" we should be defending our national interest by cultivating proxy nations to fight the Islamo facists, the Chinese, the Russians and anti US latino nations. It probably is a cheaper strategy and there will be no deaths of US soldiers for the MSM and leftwing to use to beat our war efforts to death.
We should turn the game back on the enemies in the region. We could do this if we stopped worrying playing policeman between the various hate groups in Iraq and do the following:
1. Pull back to strong bases / strategic assets / Kurd zones.
2. Sell / give weapons to our "friends"
3. Cut off all unapproved supplies (including food) coming into the country (bomb everything coming across the boarder without our approval).
4. Train and supply anti-enemy forces to cross over into Iran (give them a task of their own medicine)
I saw you mentioned the idea of a Chinese partnership. I was wondering if the Chinese had any interest in supplying foot soldiers. An American / Chinese partnership could be interesting.
"HOWEVER during this period of "isolation" we should be defending our national interest by cultivating proxy nations to fight the Islamo facists, the Chinese, the Russians and anti US latino nations."
That's exactly what I was thinking; use the time and the money to strengthen our homeland while using our allies to fight overseas.
"It probably is a cheaper strategy and there will be no deaths of US soldiers for the MSM and leftwing to use to beat our war efforts to death."
They'll still find a way to use it against America. They did it when Reagan was providing everything sort of U.S. troops to Latin American countries. They won't be happy until America falls; that's the single thing that drives them.
it's not civil war, civil war isn't about killing unarmed citizens minding their own business, it needs to be called what it is, terror, or murder, or genocide, comitted by the leftovers of Saddam's torture machine who've ganged up with islamoblowbots
Looking back, maybe we should have just destroyed Saddam's army and then left. This would have left the Sunni and Shia to fight for power 3 years ago, with the victors inevitibly massacring the losers.
Please read again. I am sorry if there was a confusion. I stated that we need to create proxies to deal with China. Example would be closer relations with India, and Japan to counter China. China had been using proxies to cause headaches for the US especially her support for Iran in the Middle East.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The top U.S. military intelligence officer has a very sobering assessment of the cycle of violence in Iraq which is killing thousands of civilians each month. He now says the carnage could go on for decades. He spoke exclusively to our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.
She's at the U.S. Central Command headquarters at an undisclosed location in the Middle East -- Barbara.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, as we continue to travel throughout this region with General John Abizaid, an inside look at the latest intelligence assessment on Iraq.
(voice-over): As the Bush administration struggles to find a way out of Iraq, the top U.S. military intelligence officer for the region says sectarian violence between Sunni and Shia now run so deep, it could take generations for the country to become peaceful.
BRIG. GEN. JOHN CUSTER, U.S. ARMY: We're in a self-sustaining cycle of violence is the way I put it. There are demographics within Baghdad that both sides are trying to change, Sunni, Shia. There are death squads on both sides.
STARR: Army Brigadier General John Custer is the senior intelligence officer for General John Abizaid at the U.S. Central Command. He gave CNN a rare interview as Abizaid travels throughout the region. Custer says the violence is at the core of what he calls a revenge society that now is Iraq.
CUSTER: The Shia are trying to move Sunnis out of mixed neighborhoods to turn some neighborhoods into more Shia-based neighborhoods. The Sunnis are resisting, the Sunnis are then coming back at the Shia.
STARR: U.S. military intelligence believes Iran is playing a significant, but perhaps not decisive, role in supporting Shia militias and death squads. Custer says the largest Shia militia, Muqtada al-Sadr's Madhi army, now has an Iranian-controlled element inside Iraq.
U.S. officials say members of the Madhi army have trained both in Iran and Lebanon. Custer thinks Sadr's recent move to pull his crucial support from Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki may backfire.
CUSTER: He faces quite a strain there because the network of patronage that he acquires from that is a great deal of his power. So we question how long he can do that.
STARR: But it is the revenge society of Iraq that Custer is focused on. Iran, he says, is not the central issue.
CUSTER: If I could snap my fingers and move Iran out of the picture it wouldn't change -- it wouldn't end the conflict. It wouldn't drastically change the conflict. It's not decisive.
STARR (on camera): But what is clear, General Custer believes, is that the Shia are now willing to spend years getting their revenge against the Sunnis -- Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: All right, Barbara. Thanks very much. A very, very sobering assessment from the U.S. military intelligence officer there on the ground in the region.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0611/30/sitroom.03.html
"One thing the left doesn't understand about us: we don't want to be at war right now. It would be wonderful if we weren't. But what we get that they don't is that it isn't a matter of what you want. This is something we HAVE to do, and failure is not an option."
Worth repeating.
"I can't help but wonder if after they hang Sadam, things will quite down...I get the feeling that he is stiring the pot there, don't know how, but I feel that."
I, too, have been wondering about what will happen after Saddam is gone. I don't think things will quiet down at first, in fact, I think they will escalate in the short term. Eventually, after Saddam is gone, I think many of the insurgents will stop fighting because there will be no one and nothing to fight for. What percentage will stop fighting remains to be seen.
Hopefully it will be a very large percentage.
"Looking back, maybe we should have just destroyed Saddam's army and then left."
We did until they disappeared. Do you know where they went to (the Iraqi army)?
Right. I guess most people don't know that the great majority of the 150(?)000 troops in Iraq hold in their hand nothing more deadly than a pen. Takes a lot of pencilpushers to keep the speartip sharp. The Iraqis now (I'm guess) are dependent on those same guys, so that means they are supplying a total force that approaches 500,000.
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