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What About Clinton and Kosovo? Get Over 'Bush Lied' Nonsense
Human Events ^ | December.1, 2006 | Larry Elder

Posted on 11/30/2006 8:30:00 PM PST by Reagan Man

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1 posted on 11/30/2006 8:30:06 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Reagan Man
The garrulous Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., made many "Bush lied" accusations: "There was no imminent threat"...Bush never said there was - in fact he said specifically that we did not want to wait until there was an "imminent threat" before we took action in Iraq - Teddy should get the water out of his ears so he could hear better......
2 posted on 11/30/2006 8:36:18 PM PST by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Reagan Man

BTTT


3 posted on 11/30/2006 8:36:50 PM PST by perfect stranger (Tagline tomorrow, tagline yesterday, but no tagline today.)
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To: Intolerant in NJ
"Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike?"
---George W. Bush, SOTU Speech, 1/28/03
4 posted on 11/30/2006 8:38:57 PM PST by Reagan Man (Conservatives don't support amnesty and conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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R.I.P. We should have listened to you.


Our Illegal War
*by Congressman Helen Chenoweth*

* Congress must reclaim its authority*

*Vol. 15, No. 09 http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/04-26-99/illegal_war.htm
April 26, 1999

*

When the order was given for American military personnel to attack
Yugoslavia, it was not issued following a declaration of war from Congress. Nor was the order given by the President as a means of repelling a sudden attack on America by a foreign aggressor, or as a measure intended to rescue Americans abroad from unexpected peril. In fact, the order to attack Yugoslavia didn't even follow the pattern set in Korea and Vietnam, in which our nation was committed to protracted foreign wars through unilateral presidential action. On March 23rd, the order to commence hostilities was given to an American general by a Spanish Marxist NATO Secretary-General Javier Solana.

"I have just directed the Supreme Allied Commander of Europe, General
[Wesley] Clark, to initiate air operations in the Federal Republic of
Yugoslavia," announced Solana, who insisted that the attack "is intended to support the political aims of the international community."

Congress played no role in defining those political aims, which means that the American people =97 in whose name Congress is empowered to act were not permitted to play any role in the decision to commit our nation to war.

In the run-up to our war with Yugoslavia, Congress was permitted by its leaders to carry out an impotent charade of debate. On March 11th, the House approved a non-binding resolution endorsing the use of American troops to enforce a peace agreement between the Yugoslav regime of Slobodan Milosevic and secessionist leaders in Yugoslavia's Kosovo province. On March 23rd just hours before Solana issued the order to begin the bombing, the Senate approved a resolution supporting the military campaign. But Clinton Administration officials, including the President, had by that time made it
clear that while they sought *approval* of the military action from
Congress, they did not consider it necessary for Congress to *authorize* the military strike on Yugoslavia.

A few senators seemed to understand the constitutional implications of these actions.

Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) pointed out, "If we start a massive bombing campaign, we're going to war."

Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK) described the prospect of waging an undeclared aggressive war upon Yugoslavia as "a precedent I don't want to be involved in."

Even more pointed were the comments of Senator Pete Domenici (R-NM). "I say shame on the President," declared Domenici, momentarily forgetting that Bill Clinton has repeatedly demonstrated that he is incapable of shame. "If this is such an important matter, why couldn't [the President] trust the United States Senate and United States House and ask us whether we concur?"

In order to appreciate the depth of the Administration's deception regarding the war over Kosovo, it is necessary to understand that the war was "authorized" by NATO long before the bombing began on March 24th.

The day after the war began, the *London Telegraph* reported that General Clark NATO's supreme military commander, "received his activation order for hostilities last October. The order was the official moment when authority over the forces to be used was transferred to him from the top brass of the member countries supplying them. The supreme commander *does not need new
permission* from politicians or diplomats whenever he wishes to change
tactics, or increase or scale back operations." (Emphasis added.)

At 1:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time on March 24th, with American bombers en route to Yugoslavia and just minutes before the first explosions were reported on the ground in Kosovo, White House spokesman Joe Lockhart explicitly admitted that the power to take our nation into war had been surrendered to a foreign official namely, the NATO Secretary-General.

Lockhart was asked by correspondent Helen Thomas, "Who gives the green light on this now? Is it the President himself, or the Supreme Commander of NATO...?" Lockhart replied, "The Supreme Commander of NATO acts on the authority of the political leaders of the NATO countries, and he has that authority."

In brief, the power to declare war in Kosovo was exercised by NATO
Secretary-General Solana; the power to make war was given to NATO's Supreme Commander; the President of the United States played the role of "selling" the war to the public, and Congress was tacitly told that its duty was to rubber-stamp the decision to take our nation into war, and to authorize payment of the resulting expenses.

"No power but Congress can declare war," observed Daniel Webster in 1846 "but what is the value of this constitutional provision, if the President of his own authority may make such military movements as must bring on war?"

The Administration's actions in committing our country to enforce, through military action, diplomatic initiatives in Kosovo presented Congress with a *fait accompli.* The only recourse left to Congress was to defund military deployments to which the Administration had previously committed our country but the political will for that is not evident.

Unfortunately, the majority in both houses of Congress have abdicated their responsibility and have acquiesced in the usurpation of their powers. The passivity of the House in allowing Bill Clinton to carry out an illegal war is particularly galling in light of the fact that the same body impeached him last December for much less serious crimes.

Under the Constitution, explained Alexander Hamilton, "It is the province and duty of the Executive to preserve to the Nation the blessings of peace. The Legislature alone can interrupt those blessings, by placing the Nation in a state of War."

By surrendering to a series of executive usurpations (those of Bill Clinton being the most brazen), Congress has abandoned the separation of powers and embraced in its place a version of *fuhrerprinzip* the "leader principle" in which Congress meekly endorses the decisions of an imperial "commander-in-chief."

"Kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object," wrote Abraham Lincoln in 1848.

The royal war-making prerogative which permitted one man to commit his country to war, was regarded by our Founding Fathers "to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions," Lincoln explained.

For this reason, the statesmen who gathered at the Constitutional Convention of 1787 "resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us."

James Madison's notes on the Convention record the care with which the Founders assigned the power to declare war to the legislative branch. This was done, as George Mason of Virginia noted, for the purpose of "clogging rather than facilitating war."

At the initiative of Madison and Elbridge Gerry, the original language authorizing Congress to "make" war was changed to the power to "declare" war, thereby (in Madison's words) "leaving to the Executive the power to repel sudden attacks."

In an April 2, 1798 letter to Thomas Jefferson, Madison further elucidated the reasoning behind this careful assignment of powers.

"The constitution supposes, what the History of all [governments] demonstrates, that the [executive] is the branch of power most interested in war, and most prone to it. It has accordingly, with studied care, vested the question of war in the legislature."

Alexander Hamilton, who favored a strong Executive branch, observed in *The Federalist*, No. 69:

"The President is to be commander-in-chief of the army and navy of the United States. In this respect, his authority would *nominally* be the same with that of the king of Great Britain, *but in substance much inferior to it.*" (Emphasis added.)

Where the power of the English king "extends to the *declaring* of war and to the *raising* and *regulating* of fleets and armies," Hamilton explained, the authority of the U.S. President "amounts to nothing more than the supreme command and direction of the land and naval forces, as first general and admiral" after the declaration of war has been issued by Congress.

The text of the Constitution itself (Article II, Section 2) specifies, "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States...."

In other words, "Commander in Chief" describes a specific and limited role played by the President. Rather than Congress having a Commander in Chief before which it must prostrate itself, it has in the President an executive it may entrust with delegated war-making authority.

It bears repeating that in the Kosovo war, the role of commander in chief by the Administration's own admission, has been assigned to NATO's Supreme Commander, who exercises (in Hamilton's words) "the supreme command and direction of the land and naval forces" called into service by Secretary-General Solana.

Perhaps, given Mr. Clinton's own history of "loathing" for the military, personal cowardice, and bottomless corruption it is of benefit to the morale of American servicemen fighting in Yugoslavia
to know that it is General Clark who serves as their commander in chief.

Nevertheless, this arrangement gravely undermines the constitutional
mechanisms designed to protect our liberties and national sovereignty.

In my remarks to the House of Representatives during the March 11th debate I reminded my colleagues that nothing in the laws or the Constitution suggests that a determination by the United Nations Security Council or by the North Atlantic Council (NATO's governing political body) is a substitute for a congressional declaration of war. Furthermore, by making war on a sovereign nation, NATO acted in violation of both its own charter and that of the United Nations.

The North Atlantic Treaty states that NATO will "refrain in [its]
international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner
inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations."

The document specifies that NATO was created to defend "the territorial integrity political independence or security" of its members in exercising the right of "collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations."

Whatever one thinks of the actions of the Milosevic regime in suppressing a secessionist movement within its own borders, it must be admitted that the Yugoslav regime did nothing to threaten the "integrity political independence or security" of NATO members. Thus NATO's attack on that regime violated the alliance's founding treaty.

Furthermore, NATO's commitment to act in harmony with "the purposes of the United Nations" requires that the alliance be bound by the UN Charter.

Article 2, section 7 of the UN Charter states, "Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state"; the suppression of Kosovo's ethnic Albanian secessionist movement is clearly within Yugoslavia's domestic jurisdiction.

Under the precedent set in the Kosovo war, America may find itself committed to military intervention in ethnic conflicts around the world. Should we attack Turkey to protect the Kurds, who chafe under Turkish rule?

Should we go to war with China in support of independence-minded Tibet?

Will U.S. planes attack Sri Lanka in defense of Tamil separatists, or bomb targets in India on behalf of Muslims in Kashmir?

The logic of the Kosovo precedent dictates that U.S. troops can be committed to war, without congressional sanction, anywhere in the world where atrocities are captured by the camera lens.

The war on Yugoslavia, we must remember, was brought about by NATO's demand that Milosevic consent to the foreign occupation of his country by an international army, which would enforce the terms of an agreement intended to grant "autonomy" to ethnic Albanian rebels. When Milosevic refused to permit the occupation, NATO threatened to bomb his country, and ultimately carried out that threat.

Once again, the Clinton Administration has been devastatingly candid about key facts.

On February 10th, in testimony before the Committee on International Relations, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Thomas Pickering confirmed that Kosovo is part of Yugoslavia's sovereign territory, and that an attack upon Yugoslavia waged because of Milosevic's refusal to allow foreign intervention would be nothing less than an act of war.

It is a remarkable spectacle to see the Clinton Administration and NATO taking over from the Soviet Union the role of sponsoring "wars of national liberation."

More remarkable still, and even more unsettling, is the fact that the beneficiary in the case of Kosovo the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) is a collection of Maoist drug-peddlers and terrorists who have been armed by Iran and provided with training and support by Saudi terrorist financier Osama bin Ladin, who is the world's most notorious sponsor of international terrorism.

When Bill Clinton, in an earlier crime against the Constitution
unilaterally launched missile strikes on Afghanistan and Sudan, he claimed that his target was the terrorist network operated by bin Ladin.

However, in Kosovo, Bill Clinton has committed America's military might to the support of bin Ladin's Balkan allies, and the policy of the Clinton Administration seeks the creation of a Balkan outpost for bin Ladin's terrorist network.

THE NEW AMERICAN was the first national publication in this country to
document the KLA's narco-terrorist background:

"Diving into the Kosovo Quagmire
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/03-15-99/kosovo.htm

[March 15th issue), and I made this magazine's findings available to many of my colleagues on Capitol Hill. Although few U.S. publications have looked into the KLA's role in international narco-terrorism, the *Times *of London for March 24th, in a story published just before NATO commenced airstrikes upon Yugoslavia, reported that the KLA, in "the judgment of senior police officers across Europe," is "a Marxist-led force funded by dubious sources including drug money."

Police forces in three Western European countries together with Europol, "are separately investigating growing evidence that drug money is funding the KLA's leap from obscurity to power," continued the report.

A report filed on the same day by Steve Rodan of the *World Tribune* described how an "autonomous" Kosovo under KLA control could serve as a springboard for Iranian sponsored terrorism throughout Europe and beyond.

According to Western European security experts, wrote Rodan, "Iran, Saudi Arabia and some of their terrorist beneficiaries have exploited the fighting to establish a sphere of influence that spans from Greece to the Austrian border."

NATO's willingness to go to war on behalf of Muslim ethnic Albanians in Kosovo could ignite insurrections across Europe, to which the KLA's terrorist sponsors would eagerly lend support.

"The concern of European strategists is that an Iranian sphere of influence would do greater damage to such Western countries as Britain, France and Germany," reported Rodan.

"France has about two million Muslims, most of them poor and alienated. Britain has about 1.5million." A European diplomat told Rodan, "Once these minorities feel that they can obtain the support of NATO, we could see flare-ups everywhere."

We could see "flare-ups" within our own nation as well and the Kosovo precedent would justify military intervention by the "international community" to settle such conflicts within our own borders. Consider the case of the southwestern United States, a region referred to as "Aztlan," the mythical homeland of the Aztecs, by such militant groups as the "Brown Berets."

Aztlan radicals have announced their intention to conduct *la reconquista* the re-conquest of that region through unrestrained illegal immigration, as well as subversion and violence. It is not difficult to foresee a future scenario in which the "international community" authorizes the use of military force in support of "autonomy" for Aztlan, in the same way that the war in Yugoslavia was launched in support of "autonomy" for an Albanian Muslim-dominated Kosovo.

Had Congress performed its constitutional duty, all of these facts would have been rigorously examined before our nation found itself committed to an illegal war in Yugoslavia.

We would have demanded that the President make his best case to the people's representatives in a formal request for a declaration of war. This would have given us the opportunity to require that he defend an alliance with drug-dealing Marxists bent upon promoting terrorism throughout Europe.

Had Congress been willing to exercise a check on presidential ambitions by withholding funds for the envisioned military deployment, we would have learned, in a timely fashion, about the unconstitutional arrangement through which the power to declare war was delegated to a Spanish Marxist, and the power to make war was assigned to NATO's military commander. Had we acted with statesman-like deliberation, we would have soberly discussed and contemplated the implications of the Kosovo precedent for our nation's future.

It was our duty to do all of this before deciding whether or not to
interrupt "the blessings of peace by placing the Nation in a State of War."

Instead, Congress submitted to the usurpations of a corrupt, impeached President, and made itself complicit in his crimes against our Constitution and our national sovereignty.

Congress can reclaim the powers it has surrendered. Indeed it must, if our descent into tyranny and the erosion of our sovereignty are to be arrested.

But this will not happen until a critical mass of public understanding is reached, and informed pressure is brought to bear. The actions of an imperial President can, as Lincoln warned, "bring this oppression upon us" = but only if, through our indifference, we allow those malign designs to flourish.
__________


*Former U.S. Rep. Helen Chenoweth-Hage dies in Nevada car crash*
*Union-Tribune 10/2/06*

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20061002-2351-wst-obit-chenowet=
h-hage.html

CARSON CITY, Nev. Former U.S. Rep. Helen Chenoweth-Hage, an Idaho Republican who held "endangered salmon bakes" and once accused federal agents of using black helicopter gunships, has died in a car crash, her daughter said. She was 68.

Chenoweth-Hage, whose arch-conservative, often libertarian and sometimes extreme views made her popular with militia movements, was a passenger Monday in a one-car crash near Tonopah, Nev., 172 miles northwest of Las Vegas, said her daughter Meg Chenoweth Keenan.

The Nevada Highway Patrol said Chenoweth-Hage was pronounced dead at the scene. Though other family members were in the car =96 including the driver= daughter-in-law Yelena Hage, 24, and Hage's 5-month-old son Bryan, no one else was seriously injured.


--


5 posted on 11/30/2006 8:42:53 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Reagan Man

BTTT


6 posted on 11/30/2006 8:43:40 PM PST by DocRock
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To: Reagan Man

I have always wondered why the White House does not quote David Kay........

Lauer asked: "Based on everything you now know, was it prudent to go to war against Saddam?"

Kay: "It was absolutely prudent to go to war. The system was collapsing, Iraq was a country with desire to develop WMDs, and it was attracting terrorists like flies to honey."


7 posted on 11/30/2006 8:45:22 PM PST by Names Ash Housewares
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To: Reagan Man

These people will always lie to the American people because they hate America.


8 posted on 11/30/2006 8:47:48 PM PST by freekitty
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To: Reagan Man
P.S.
x42i also promised troops to be home from Bosnia by Christmas.
Was it a Lie ? Maybe not, he never said in what year.
9 posted on 11/30/2006 8:50:46 PM PST by stylin19a ("Klaatu Barada Nikto")
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To: Intolerant in NJ
Teddy should get the water out of his ears so he could hear better......

It wasn't the "water" in his ears that was preventing him from hearing better. It was the alcohol in his system.

10 posted on 11/30/2006 8:53:25 PM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Father of a 10th Mountain Division 2nd BCT Soldier back in the "SandBox")
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To: Reagan Man
Let's also remember that it was Ted Kennedy whom GWB first reached out to (in the spirit of bipartisanship) during the president's first days in office--only to be stabbed in the back by that treasonous, drunken, pos, murderer.
11 posted on 11/30/2006 8:56:58 PM PST by aligncare (*This is a test of the emergency tagline warning system. This is only a test*)
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To: Reagan Man; joan; Banat; kronos77; FormerLib; DTA; ma bell

Bump!


12 posted on 11/30/2006 9:00:18 PM PST by F-117A (Hey, Borat! Come talk to these "people"!)
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To: Reagan Man

The President is a much more patient man than some give him credit for. That said, he should have stopped this crap a long time ago.


13 posted on 11/30/2006 9:02:59 PM PST by pray4liberty (School District horrors: http://totallyunjust.tripod.com)
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To: Calpernia

bttt


14 posted on 11/30/2006 9:03:40 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Reagan Man

I always wonder why the left demands more troops into Afghanistan as well as keeping troops in Kosovo and demanding Bush do something about Darfur. After all, aren't they also just "civil wars" in the same light as Iraq?

Typical leftwinged propagandist hypocrisy.


15 posted on 11/30/2006 9:16:04 PM PST by DakotaRed (Kerry Should Resign!)
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To: Reagan Man; Liz; Howlin; ALOHA RONNIE; MurryMom

Ethnic cleansing versus sectarian violence. Is there much difference between the two?


16 posted on 11/30/2006 9:16:17 PM PST by Libloather (If morons could fly, RATS underground would be an airport...)
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To: SoldierDad
It wasn't the "water" in his ears that was preventing him from hearing better. It was the alcohol in his system....well said.....
17 posted on 11/30/2006 9:21:07 PM PST by Intolerant in NJ
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To: pray4liberty
The President is a much more patient man than some give him credit for. That said, he should have stopped this crap a long time ago.

Too bad President Bush doesn't have President Reagan's sense of humor, sense of timing, and speaking skills. He'd have put these people in their place from the outset, just as Reagan always did.

18 posted on 11/30/2006 9:29:06 PM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Father of a 10th Mountain Division 2nd BCT Soldier back in the "SandBox")
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To: Reagan Man

Bump


19 posted on 11/30/2006 9:36:02 PM PST by carola
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To: Calpernia; Reagan Man

Sad. This was before I was internet savvy. I believed what I heard and read in the msm. I am truly ashamed.


20 posted on 11/30/2006 9:38:32 PM PST by Eagles6 (Dig deeper, more ammo.)
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To: Reagan Man


Someone has been reading my blogs!

I remember the left talked about death camps and all the other things the Serbs were supposedly doing. And when we get over there we find none of it.


21 posted on 11/30/2006 11:03:48 PM PST by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President! www.dndorks.com)
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To: pray4liberty
Am afraid, Bush is too late smart on this one. . .myths have their own powerful realities. His first mistake was ignoring the 'myth-making' of the Left re the Election and the Florida debaucle. . .

Recreating reality. ..and the history it frames; is something the Left does because the 'truth' is their first enemy. . .they refashion truth into their own image. . .using 'body snatching' tools of political correctness and of course, they always keep their 'lies' close by, to rely on.

22 posted on 11/30/2006 11:24:12 PM PST by cricket
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To: Reagan Man
["The latest evidence suggests that fewer than 3,000 Kosovars were murdered -- horrifying, yes, but not many more than the number of Serbs who were killed by NATO bombing attacks on Yugoslavia, roughly estimated between 3,000 and 5,000 soldiers and civilians." ]

We can refer to the same thing in Bosnia. The BBC consistently reports that 250,000 people were killed. In fact, it's no where even close to the BBC's claim during the Civil War.

Of course Hoppy would disagree with my argument to build his case against Gen. Mladic.
23 posted on 11/30/2006 11:25:17 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: stylin19a
P.S. x42i also promised troops to be home from Bosnia by Christmas. Was it a Lie ? Maybe not, he never said in what year.

Oh no. I remember watching him on TV and hearing from his own mouth "I promise the troops will all be home one year from now." I believe that was in the fall of '99. He used the word 'promise' and he said it like it was his most solemn vow. I'm sure it was too, knowing he was lying as he spoke the words, that is his best effort.

24 posted on 12/01/2006 12:30:16 AM PST by TigersEye (Ego chatters on endlessly. Mind speaks in great silence.)
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To: Reagan Man

Bookmark


25 posted on 12/01/2006 12:31:12 AM PST by Pajamajan (Pray for president Bush-pray for our military-pray for our congress-pray for our nation)
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To: Reagan Man
Kosovo was an illegal war under all definitions and a such, Bill Klintoon and 'his general' Weasel Clark are war criminals. The indiscriminate bombing (and with 'dumb bombs' no less), from 35,000 feet was a Crime Against Humanity and the funding and arming of the terrorist KLA was treasonous.

It is Willard and the Weasel who should have been sitting in the dock in The Hague, NOT Slobo!

26 posted on 12/01/2006 4:45:19 AM PST by Condor51 (Tagline Under Construction - Kindly Wear Your Hardhat)
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To: TigersEye
"The boys will be home by Christmas" was the quote I remember. He just didn't say what year! Clinton went to war as a partner with Bin Laden and drug running Islam terrorists to kill Serbian Christians and seize land from them, ignoring the war powers act in the process. He should have been impeached, indicted, and thrown in jail for that one.
27 posted on 12/01/2006 5:54:13 AM PST by T. Jefferson
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To: Condor51
Bill Klintoon and 'his general' Weasel Clark are war criminals.

Feel free to take your argument to it's logical conclusion and call for the prosecution of those servicemen who actually perpetrated your imaginary war crimes - the pilots of the USAF, USN, and USMC.

28 posted on 12/01/2006 12:31:15 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite; Condor51; T. Jefferson
As every day goes by, Hoplite, more people realize that the American people were misled into supporting your beloved but murderous Muslim Albanian terrorists.

Did you really think you could keep the truth buried forever, Dhimmi?

And Serbia, with her national borders still encompassing Kosovo, moves closer to partenship with NATO.

29 posted on 12/01/2006 1:39:18 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Hoplite

["Feel free to take your argument to it's logical conclusion and call for the prosecution of those servicemen who actually perpetrated your imaginary war crimes - the pilots of the USAF, USN, and USMC."]

So what does your verbose comment have to do with the price of eggs in Denmark?

In short, servicemen are not responsible for policy decision makers...and you should know that.


30 posted on 12/01/2006 8:41:58 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: T. Jefferson
I tried to Google up the quote I was thinking of. You may have heard one press bite and I heard another. Hard to say. It occurred to me that the promise I was thinking of was about troops in Bosnia not Kosovo. I distinctly remember him promising that we would be completely out in one year. Seemed like it was in the fall when he said it.

He should have been tried for treason and hung for Chinagate.

31 posted on 12/01/2006 10:27:03 PM PST by TigersEye (Ego chatters on endlessly. Mind speaks in great silence.)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
In short, servicemen are not responsible for policy decision makers...and you should know that.

The Nuremburg defence?

You're joking, right?

Tell you what - why don't you identify specifically what actions or events you'd consider war crimes in reference to the prosecution of Operation Allied Force, and we can take it from there, m'kay?

You're so out of your depth here it's not even funny.

32 posted on 12/02/2006 10:31:56 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
["The Nuremburg defence? You're joking, right?"]

Well not really. I never viewed, for example, Herman Goering as a simple soldier (serviceman). Rather I view him as KEY POLICY DECISION MAKER in terms of executing a war. Big difference.
33 posted on 12/02/2006 12:50:49 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic

Why don't you identify specifically what actions or events you'd consider war crimes in reference to the prosecution of Operation Allied Force, and we can take it from there, m'kay?


34 posted on 12/02/2006 1:28:30 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Giving the order to bomb innocent civilians in order to protect Muhammedan terrorists.

The accused is none other than your hero, Bill Clinton.

M'kay?

Not only did he kill a lot of Christians, but he made those kneepads you wear fashionable.


35 posted on 12/02/2006 1:54:30 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Hoplite
["Why don't you identify specifically what actions or events you'd consider war crimes in reference to the prosecution of Operation Allied Force, and we can take it from there, m'kay?"]

Nice to see that gave your previous post a thorough revision.

However, you are directing your question in the wrong direction.

Feel free to find where I ever expressed views that would implicate US "servicemen" as "war criminals" in the events surrounding Operation Allied Force...I'll save you time...you won't find any.

Further, I don't consider General Wesley Clark (Supreme Allied Commander of Europe - NATO) to be a "serviceman" Rather he's is (was) a "policy maker."
36 posted on 12/03/2006 2:38:44 AM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Nice to see that gave your previous post a thorough revision.

Hoppy gives everything a thorough revision, including reality and his sexuality.

37 posted on 12/03/2006 5:46:20 AM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Feel free to find where I ever expressed views that would implicate US "servicemen" as "war criminals" in the events surrounding Operation Allied Force...I'll save you time...you won't find any.

Then come out and say that no war crimes were committed by NATO during Allied Force and I'll consider the matter closed with you.

Further, I don't consider General Wesley Clark (Supreme Allied Commander of Europe - NATO) to be a "serviceman" Rather he's is (was) a "policy maker."

Everybody's entitled to an opinion, regardless of whether it's informed or not.

38 posted on 12/03/2006 9:12:10 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

["Everybody's entitled to an opinion, regardless of whether it's informed or not."]

The SACEUR and Secretary General of NATO both hold "HEAD OF STATE" status, so as to be able to cut through red tape and contact anyone in the world in order to hold the Alliance together.

That, in my mind, puts General Clark above the level of "serviceman."


39 posted on 12/03/2006 2:29:02 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
That, in my mind, puts General Clark above the level of "serviceman."

If he's wearing an American military uniform, regardless of what position he's holding, he reports to someone, and serves at their pleasure.

Your ignorance of our military chain of command is just a distraction, however, as you're avoiding the question of whether you consider any of the actions carried out by NATO during Operation Allied Force war crimes.

40 posted on 12/03/2006 3:22:38 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
[..."as you're avoiding the question of whether you consider any of the actions carried out by NATO during Operation Allied Force [were] war crimes."

Hoplite, why are posing this question specifically to me? I think I know why, however, I feel that I said what needed to be said.
41 posted on 12/03/2006 9:00:19 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic

Hoplite aka Helot - is way over his head...


42 posted on 12/03/2006 9:02:50 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: Condor51

Weasely Clark (bowing to) and his Commander in chief - the arch terrorist albanian Thaci (on left)

43 posted on 12/03/2006 9:36:43 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: eleni121

["Hoplite aka Helot - is way over his head... "]

Good, someone is out there seeing my point. Thanks.


44 posted on 12/03/2006 10:37:07 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Hoplite, why are posing this question specifically to me?

To see what extent you'll go to in order to avoid answering it.

So far, you've met expectations.

45 posted on 12/04/2006 7:23:51 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite; LjubivojeRadosavljevic

Hoppie/Helot - serious case of anal retentive behavior.

LOL


46 posted on 12/04/2006 8:26:49 AM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: Hoplite

["To see what extent you'll go to in order to avoid answering it [the question]. So far, you've met expectations."]

Because your question is about as rhetorical as (for example); "Don't you know any better?"


47 posted on 12/04/2006 1:42:27 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic

Intellectual cowardice.


48 posted on 12/04/2006 1:58:22 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

He answered the question, you dim-witted little Dhimmi! He just used big words and confused you.


49 posted on 12/04/2006 4:29:21 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib
Clinton lied, Orthodox Christians died were murdered.
50 posted on 12/04/2006 4:34:58 PM PST by OldCorps
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