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"Security Of Electronic Voting Is Condemned"
The Washington Post ^ | 1 December 2006 | Cameron W. Barr

Posted on 12/03/2006 4:46:39 AM PST by lifelong_republican

"...the most sweeping condemnation of such voting systems by a federal agency..."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: representation; toodumbtovote; vote; voter; voting
Patriotic Americans in all 50 states have been striving to make the public more aware of this problem. Once one realizes what is involved with this, one realizes that other issues, while themselves important, will become moot unless the citizens of the USA regain their votes.
1 posted on 12/03/2006 4:46:45 AM PST by lifelong_republican
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To: lifelong_republican

somehow i have doubted the security of any voting system of any sort since i saw the Palm Beach episode of the 2000 presidential election. as long as the pols control the machinery, whatever it is, things can be manipulated.


2 posted on 12/03/2006 4:51:02 AM PST by avital2
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To: avital2
If Dems have been able to commit voting fraud in big cities (as they have done for decades), think what they can do when there are no paper trails.

I can't understand the need to spend hundreds of millions for electronic voting systems that are used once or twice a year just so results can be reported sooner.
3 posted on 12/03/2006 4:54:08 AM PST by BW2221
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To: lifelong_republican; Tribune7
In a report hailed by critics of electronic voting, NIST said that voting systems should allow election officials to recount ballots independently from a voting machine's software.

PA, DE, and NJ also have unverifiable voting equipment.

4 posted on 12/03/2006 4:59:05 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional.)
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To: BW2221
The term "paper trail" is an inappropriate substitute for the correct term "audit trail".

No one should be deluded into thinking a "paper" voting system actually has an "audit trail". As the Democrats have demonstrated for more than a century, ALL paper ballots are subject to massive vote fraud at will.

5 posted on 12/03/2006 5:01:55 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: brityank
"PA,DE, and NJ also have unverifiable voting equipment."

I believe this! Perhaps this is why the alleged "polls" giving Casey the Senatorial race here in Pennsylvania for weeks prior to the election, were so emboldened. We can be told that anything is going to happen when the "pollsters" know what is going to happen by virtue of the fact that the electronic voting machines are able to be tampered with.

This is precisely how we're going to "elect" the next President; i.e., Hillary.

Nancee

6 posted on 12/03/2006 5:18:03 AM PST by Nancee ((Nancee Lynn Cheney))
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To: muawiyah
Good. and the only reason anyone thinks manual recounts are error free is that they take so long they wear everyone out. There is no way that all those people could handle all those ballots without introducing lots more error than you will get from machines.

I say devise a system that allows us to use our ATMS. There are no overvotes on my bank statement and the banks are highly regulated. They don't keep thousands of dead people on the rolls. Finally, they run efficiently everyday and are not staffed by volunteers.

By the way, the Dems replaced the supervisor of elections in Palm Beach County as soon as they could with an affirmative action pick who can not pronounce calculate. I'll bet he does what the machine bosses tell him to do, though. We lost 2 R seats here this time. Gotta keep PBC safe for the trial lawyers and their racketeering.

7 posted on 12/03/2006 5:19:57 AM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: muawiyah
"No one should be deluded into thinking a "paper" voting system actually has an "audit trail". As the Democrats have demonstrated for more than a century, ALL paper ballots are subject to massive vote fraud at will."

Only if they have the collusion of the local clerks of court. And "massive fraud" with paper ballots is a LOT easier to detect than with any "all-electronic" system. Electronically scanned paper ballots (NOT punch cards) is the way to go.

8 posted on 12/03/2006 5:39:30 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog
How little you know.

Let's kick the naievete aside for a moment ~ suppose you know there's been vote fraud in an area ~ now, how do you figure out which paper ballots are the fraudulent ones and which are real?

See, gotcha' every time. Same guy who stuffs the box controls that decision too.

We don't, BTW, rerun elections!

9 posted on 12/03/2006 5:41:46 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
"Let's kick the naievete aside for a moment ~ suppose you know there's been vote fraud in an area ~ now, how do you figure out which paper ballots are the fraudulent ones and which are real?"

Look at the audit records of total ballots sent out vs number received back. For the "electronically scanned paper ballots", it's simpler, as the ballots are sealed into the machines as they are voted--so the only way to "stuff" the ballots is to have a stack of "off the record" issued ballots to "vote" into the machine.

NO system is perfect--and any can be "gamed". But the "all electronic" systems are grossly less secure than current systems. Precisely HOW do you "recount" a bunch of 1's and 0's on a chip???

10 posted on 12/03/2006 5:48:34 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog
They did it pretty easily with paper in Washington State. and it was obvious to everyone.
11 posted on 12/03/2006 5:49:36 AM PST by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: muawiyah; Wonder Warthog
I miss my punch card ballots. You would have to be a idiot to have messed those things up.

Btw, we now have electronic voting, and I have seen those devices mess up, break down, can't read the card, etc.

Well, that's progress! /s

12 posted on 12/03/2006 5:49:55 AM PST by csvset (Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil & inhumane)
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To: bill1952
"They did it pretty easily with paper in Washington State. and it was obvious to everyone."

Yup, since I'm "in" Washington State. And you're right---it WAS obvious to everyone. That's the point. Now substitute an "all electronic" system, and it will NOT be "obvious to everyone".

13 posted on 12/03/2006 6:06:21 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog

The only way an "audit trail" can be built into a voting system is to eliminate SECRECY.


14 posted on 12/03/2006 6:07:18 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
"The only way an "audit trail" can be built into a voting system is to eliminate SECRECY."

Disagree. The electronically scanned paper ballots come as close as it's possible to get. If the local officials in charge of overseeing voting are corrupt, then the game is over, no matter WHAT system of voting is used.

The great thing about the scanned paper ballots is that when it comes time to do the re-count, you can sit three people down together---one clerk from the voting office, one official from the local Republican committee, and one from the local Democrat committe, and count the ballots. Now you tell me how you do that with an "all-electronic" system.

15 posted on 12/03/2006 6:11:50 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: lifelong_republican

November 7 revote!

I think we would win back a lot of seats we lost now that people have had time to vent and realize what their vote did.


16 posted on 12/03/2006 6:49:06 AM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: muawiyah

ok then what is a valid AUDIT trail?

(short of ending the privacy of the voting booth)


17 posted on 12/03/2006 7:27:18 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
Well, just what is the audit trail for a ballot in a situation where you use secret ballots?

I don't know.

On the other hand, I do know that no one running a modern business would tolerate secret ballots when selecting board members at a stockholders meeting.

18 posted on 12/03/2006 7:28:56 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Wonder Warthog

Perhaps what needst to happen is to video survel 100% of the ballots.

Put the entire voting process in a fish bowl.

I bet if we were to check on the sercurity of voting machines today we would find we can get unfettered access to most of them.


19 posted on 12/03/2006 7:32:14 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: ClaireSolt

"I say devise a system that allows us to use our ATMS"

The problem with that is that ATM's are not designed with "secrecy" in mind. What I mean is that both the bank and you can tie specific transactions to your account. The "secret ballot" is supposed to allow you to vote in a way that no one can tie your vote back to you. It is this disconnect that creates the problem, in my opinion. As Chris Matthews (of all people) pointed out recently, if you got a receipt for your vote, then a political boss (or your spouse) could demand proof of how you voted. Under the secret ballot system, you can tell someone you voted one way and really vote another, and no one can prove you are lying.


20 posted on 12/03/2006 7:33:15 AM PST by Stirner
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To: lifelong_republican

We have a nationwide system of Automatic Teller Machines (ATM's), debit cards, credit cards, online banking, worldwide electronic funds transfer, real time sales and inventory data for major retailers, etc., but somehow electronic voting is "insecure". This notion is part of the Democrats' Stalinist propaganda machine.


21 posted on 12/03/2006 7:35:33 AM PST by pleikumud
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To: lifelong_republican

Hmmmm??

Is it being condemned because the dems can't figure out a way to cheat as good as they could with the handwritten ballots or punched cards?

Or is it being condemned because it's really faulty ..??


22 posted on 12/03/2006 10:42:42 AM PST by CyberAnt (Drive-By Media: Fake news, fake documents, fake polls)
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To: Stirner

Well Matthews is correct, but it could be worked out easily with banks. The main problem of voting now is that it is an unprofessional one day event.


23 posted on 12/03/2006 11:10:15 AM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: CyberAnt

Thank you to avital 2: you are absolutely right about the problem being letting politicians control elections.

BW2221, you make tremendously important points. Democrats in Pennsylvania have banned any paper trail and illegally deprived citizens of independent evaluations of the systems. these systems are faulty, extremely costly, and cause voters to suffer inconvenience and, worse, disenfranchisement, so that the election officials can manipulate elections with ease and no risk of discovery.

Yes, brityank, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and New Jersey voters have had their right to cast and count their votes for themselves taken away. There are some major populations involved.

Wonder Warthog, you have my profound admiration for your grasp of the situation and for the eloquence with which you describe it.

Right Wing Assault, I don't believe that when the Democrats take away the votes with the electronics it'd really be a 'win' for anyone.

As for the point about ATMs, by pleikumud, ATMs are different systems than the inferior ones used for 'voting'.

CyberAnt, there's no doubt, among computer security experts, that the 'voting' systems are not suitable for use in any elections.

Your willingness to confront this situation is commendable.


24 posted on 12/04/2006 5:42:13 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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