No, the Cops Didn’t Murder Sean Bell

http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2006-12-04hm.html ^ | Heather Mac Donald

[ventanax5]

New York’s anti-cop forces have roared back to life, thanks to a fatal police shooting of an unarmed man a week ago. The press is once again fawning over Al Sharpton, Herbert Daughtry, Charles Barron, and sundry other hate-mongers in and out of city government as they accuse the police of widespread mistreatment of blacks and issue barely veiled threats of riots if they do not get “justice.”

The allegation that last weekend’s shooting was racially motivated is preposterous. A group of undercover officers working in a gun- and drug-plagued strip joint in Queens had good reason to believe that a party leaving the club was armed and about to shoot an adversary. When one of the undercovers identified himself as an officer, the car holding the party twice tried to run him down. The officer started firing while yelling to the car’s occupants: “Let me see your hands.” His colleagues, believing they were under attack, fired as well, eventually shooting off 50 rounds and killing the driver, Sean Bell. No gun was found in the car, but witnesses and video footage confirm that a fourth man in the party fled the scene once the altercation began. Bell and the other men with him all had been arrested for illegal possession of guns in the past; one of Bell’s companions that night, Joseph Guzman, had spent considerable time in prison, including for an armed robbery in which he shot at his victim.

[wideawake]

Eventually.

However, NYC does not reach taht level yet.

i agree that Bl;oomberg is doing his level best, but he is also the guy criticizing this officers in public without a trial.

[wtc911]

For sixty nights, nada. Then suddenly on the very last night...

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You don't know what you are talking about or, obviously, how operations like this work.

[Andonius_99]

Who can keep up with gangsta rap anymore?

I know, it's just so...innovative, LOL!

[wtc911]

"They had been undercover for months trying to bust this club with no results. This was the last night of their operation and at 4am, they finally got the bad element at the club who were just there for a bachelor party?"

You have no idea how an operation like this works. The UC never makes an arrest, his function is to observe and witness activity about which he will later testify.

///////////////////////////

"As far as the supposed gun, one of the cops claims one of the eight men at the club said something like "Yo, get my gun" which indicated he wasn't carrying the weapon. And five of the eight men were not in this car. Furthermore, these men were shot a block away from the club, clearly having no intention of engaging in illegal activity at the club or having committed any crime while at the club. Beyond that, the undercovers had not alerted the other police in the neighborhood that they were about to make a bust or had probable cause for an arrest.?"

This is what was obvious to me...The UC witnessed an argument between two groups of men inside and outside a known location. He saw and heard one say 'Get my gun' then saw that man and others walk toward a car while the other men were standing outside the location. The UC's educated reaction was 'drive-by' about to happen. He stopped it.

[George W. Bush]

They showed the other night just how fast 50 rounds can be fired off in an emergency situation...

One of the officers fired 31 times. A good bet is he had two police fifteen-round clips and had one in the chamber to start with.

Firing 31 times takes at least ten seconds plus another 3 for a reload. Probably more like 20 seconds, given that most police aren't very regularly drilled in shooting.

Something is very wrong with this story. At what point are the police expected to stop shooting when no one ever shot at them and there was no gun and no probable cause?

[George W. Bush]

You have no idea how an operation like this works. The UC never makes an arrest, his function is to observe and witness activity about which he will later testify.

Read the accounts again. It was the UC who instigated this. That's why I keep saying there's something wrong with the accounts.

This is what was obvious to me...The UC witnessed an argument between two groups of men inside and outside a known location. He saw and heard one say 'Get my gun' then saw that man and others walk toward a car while the other men were standing outside the location. The UC's educated reaction was 'drive-by' about to happen. He stopped it.

But the accounts indicate that this happened earlier and the dispute had broken up already. The other five men were no longer present by what we've seen so far. So what basis is there to believe a drive-by was about to happen? Again, no probable cause.

[wtc911]

Perhaps local reporting is more complete than what you are seeing. The first reports all included the remarks about the gun, the potential target indicating he had a gun and the presence of the potential target outside the club.

[George W. Bush]

Seems like the accounts of it change on a daily basis.

[straps]

Whats the difference? If a Policeman tells you to do something you do it period! If you dont then you suffer the consequences period. End of story.

[straps]

You forget 1 simple fact trying to justify these scum. The 1st Officer showed them his badge and they still tried to kill him. He hollered 10-13 officer involved in possible shooting . Then they tried to get him a second time and all hell broke loose. Stop trying to justify Bell he is scum period.

[aculeus]

BTTT

[aculeus]

bttt

[BufordP]

BTTT

[George W. Bush]

You forget 1 simple fact trying to justify these scum. The 1st Officer showed them his badge and they still tried to kill him. He hollered 10-13 officer involved in possible shooting . Then they tried to get him a second time and all hell broke loose. Stop trying to justify Bell he is scum period.

Yeah, but there are so many conflicting reports. One says Bell tried to run the cop down. A few more say that he 'brushed' past the officer. Another says the officer put one leg up on the hood of the car and tried to show his badge. Another one says he jumped on the hood of the car and his badge was dangling from his neck.

There are five eyewitnesses so far and apparently they don't agree on what happened either.

There hasn't been a trustworthy account written yet, whichever side you're on.

[wtc911]

He hollered 10-13 officer involved in possible shooting.

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10-13 is Assist Police Officer. It does not necessarily mean a shooting, it covers every circumstance wherein the PO needs help because he is in danger. 10-10 covers 'shots fired', at least it did thirty years ago.

[sodpoodle]

Very true.

That is why I encourage friends and relatives to maintain their law abiding habits accordingly.

No criminals in sodpoodle's familial acreage.