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Allstate to stop insuring new N.J. homeowners
msnbc ^ | 12-7-06

Posted on 12/08/2006 6:17:12 AM PST by Hydroshock

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The good hands people flip the bird to the Garden State.
1 posted on 12/08/2006 6:17:17 AM PST by Hydroshock
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To: Hydroshock; All

Ok freepers from NJ, what are the nature of the majority of claims that is causing this?


2 posted on 12/08/2006 6:18:58 AM PST by bmwcyle (The snake is loose in the garden and Eve just bit the apple.)
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To: bmwcyle

Katrina. Allstate is also pulling out of MS and LA. They are trying to raise rates through the roof in TX and FL.


3 posted on 12/08/2006 6:21:01 AM PST by Hydroshock ( (Proverbs 22:7). The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.)
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To: Hydroshock

In a free market, there would be a price at which it is viable for all state or any other insurer to sell their services. We have this problem in Florida too.


4 posted on 12/08/2006 6:21:04 AM PST by jjw
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To: Hydroshock

Of all the slimeball businesses out there, insurance companies are right up there with oil companies and legal firms.

Do they have a right not insure homes in New jersy - of course they do.

Does New Jersey have a right to retaliate against them? Of course it does. But it won't.

NExt to the New Jersey Education Association, the Cops Unions, the Construction Unions and the Trial Court Attorneys, the Insurnace companies are the highest contributors to the prostitutes who sit in that brothel called the New Jersey State Legislature.


5 posted on 12/08/2006 6:21:33 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Hydroshock

The insurance companies are dropping anyone who might actually make a claim.


6 posted on 12/08/2006 6:22:53 AM PST by driftdiver
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To: Hydroshock

We (in other states) need to help them fight this. If they can cherry pick in NJ, the next step will probably be Florida and the Gulf States.


7 posted on 12/08/2006 6:23:12 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: bmwcyle

NJ doesn't get that many huricanes ... but boy are the Folks in Jersey gonna be ticked about this


8 posted on 12/08/2006 6:23:19 AM PST by Mo1 (Thank You Mr & Mrs "I'm gonna teach you a lesson" Voter ... you just screwed us on so many levels)
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To: Hydroshock

travelers I believe is killing all business insurance in New Orleans next year. Nobody is getting renewed.


9 posted on 12/08/2006 6:23:35 AM PST by dogbyte12
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To: Hydroshock

We get that all the time from more than just Allstate here in California,

My inlaws have had their house insurance cancelled twice in the last 5 years without filing a claim.

Companies keep splitting whenever there is a big loss here usually earthquakes. Welcome to what we've been working with for a long time.


10 posted on 12/08/2006 6:24:32 AM PST by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens...)
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To: Mo1

Any recall of the last hurricane that hit New Jersey? I can't think of any, other than the storm coming up north after already hitting land. Just trying to think of a Hurricane that made landfall itself in NJ and my mind is drawing a blank.


11 posted on 12/08/2006 6:25:06 AM PST by dogbyte12
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To: Hydroshock
I see a need for national home insurance!
12 posted on 12/08/2006 6:25:16 AM PST by JZelle
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To: dogbyte12

I honestly think that in 5 years the only insurance you will be able to get within 100 miles is government sponsored insurance similar to the flood insurance policies that are out there now.


13 posted on 12/08/2006 6:26:01 AM PST by Hydroshock ( (Proverbs 22:7). The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.)
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To: dogbyte12
From wiki, FWIW....

List of New Jersey hurricanes

14 posted on 12/08/2006 6:26:22 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Hydroshock

same with NY.

my agent said they wont cancel existing accounts.

after the 2005 season they must be hurting. It sounds like a reasonable business decision to me.


15 posted on 12/08/2006 6:26:40 AM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: JZelle

That may be coming. In fact I think it is.


16 posted on 12/08/2006 6:26:55 AM PST by Hydroshock ( (Proverbs 22:7). The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.)
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To: Mo1
Many Jersey people have the mob mentality, soak the system. I'm sure this is about fraud and false claims.
17 posted on 12/08/2006 6:27:22 AM PST by bmwcyle (The snake is loose in the garden and Eve just bit the apple.)
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To: mewzilla

Yeah, I looked at it, and at rough blush, about 17 people have been killed over the past 50 years from Hurricanes in NJ. Most of these storms hit other states first, and were tropical storms when hitting NJ.

NJ's risk seems really low considering.


18 posted on 12/08/2006 6:29:54 AM PST by dogbyte12
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To: dogbyte12

I'm thinking Isbelle a few years back .. but don't quote me on that


19 posted on 12/08/2006 6:31:33 AM PST by Mo1 (Thank You Mr & Mrs "I'm gonna teach you a lesson" Voter ... you just screwed us on so many levels)
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To: Hydroshock

All-but-one-State is now All-but-two-States. (They stopped writing insurance in the PRM years ago because of the regulatory climate.)


20 posted on 12/08/2006 6:33:58 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The hallmark of a crackpot conspiracy theory is that it expands to include countervailing evidence.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

They are pulling out of LA and MS as well.


21 posted on 12/08/2006 6:36:23 AM PST by Hydroshock ( (Proverbs 22:7). The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.)
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To: bmwcyle

I read an article that Mexico is another place where people try to soak the system, so insurance companies won't write fire insurance policies there. That's why all Mexican houses are built with brick or cinderblock - no fire insurance. The article was in the San Diego Reader a few years back.


22 posted on 12/08/2006 6:36:45 AM PST by Howard Jarvis Admirer (Howard Jarvis, the foe of the tax collector and friend of the California homeowner)
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To: Vaquero

They may have been hurting after 2005 but I understand they reaped windfall profits after a relatively quiet 2006.


23 posted on 12/08/2006 6:38:15 AM PST by 31R1O ("Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life."- Immanuel Kant)
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To: CindyDawg
We (in other states) need to help them fight this. If they can cherry pick in NJ, the next step will probably be Florida and the Gulf States.

Cancel your policy, if you have one with them, or don't buy one from them, encourage others to do so, as well. It's a free (somewhat for now) country. Other than that there is nothing you can do, unless you want to go the statist route, and have the government dictate to them that they HAVE to offer insurance to new homes in high risk area.

They have the right to choose what business they want to offer, and a responsibility to thier share holders, in order to make a profit.

24 posted on 12/08/2006 6:39:17 AM PST by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: dogbyte12; Mo1

Inland Jersey floods in many areas from storms coming up from the south or over from the west and people keep rebuilding in places that get hit, like along the Wayne river. Coastal Jersey gets hit hard by nor'easters. It's not just hurricanes.


25 posted on 12/08/2006 6:40:03 AM PST by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: JZelle

I think you are on to something. These decisions collectively will aid Hillary and her offer of government aid and more and bigger programs.


26 posted on 12/08/2006 6:40:43 AM PST by Truth29
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To: 31R1O

Its a business. We live in a capitalist free market system.

If that changes, let me know.


27 posted on 12/08/2006 6:40:59 AM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: dogbyte12
NJ's risk seems really low considering.

For life insurance. Property is another issue. Seems like Allstate's trying to hedge its bets against castastrophic payouts. They lost 3 billion last year. Made a billion back last quarter. Heaven knows how much they need to put away for their rainy-day fund. I kinda feel sorry for the insurance companies actually. People engage in high risk behavior. Are as litigious as heck. Expect other people to pay for their pleasures. Insurance companies exist to make money. Must be hard to do when 9 or 10 figure losses can occur in a few hours.

28 posted on 12/08/2006 6:42:08 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: ZULU
Does New Jersey have a right to retaliate against them? Of course it does. But it won't.

That's the kind of silly talk one would expect on DU. Insurance companies are in business to make a profit, no other reason. (As are almost all other businesses*.) They would be very glad to write policies if they could collect premiums that offset the risks. Most of the worst risk (Katrina or 9/11 like loses) are reinsured through collabratives likes Lloyds.

Clearly, All-but-some-States does not believe that regulators would allow them to charge premiums that would allow them to make a profit.

*There are exceptions, e.g., Air America.

29 posted on 12/08/2006 6:42:13 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The hallmark of a crackpot conspiracy theory is that it expands to include countervailing evidence.)
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To: ZULU
Of all the slimeball businesses out there, insurance companies are right up there...

The overwhelming majority of those in the insurance industry are honorable, and honest people.

If insurors are such "slimeballs", why aren't you self-insuring? What kind of person would continually funnel money to "slimeballs"?

It would be so nice, just for one day, to not hear how Americans are scum. You have made it clear that today will not be that day.

30 posted on 12/08/2006 6:43:01 AM PST by laotzu
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To: Hydroshock

Allstate is worthless anyway. Homeowners will be better served with another insurer anyway. We plan to change insurers as soon as we move and never, ever insure with them again.


31 posted on 12/08/2006 6:44:40 AM PST by twigs
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To: JZelle

FREE National home insurance.


32 posted on 12/08/2006 6:45:00 AM PST by kylaka
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To: ZULU
What are you talking about?

If Allstate doesn't feel they can make money selling insurance in a particular location that's their choice - not yours and not the state's.

If you think it is such a money making opportunity then you sell insurance there. That's how free markets work.

The more states regulate insurance companies the more shortages there will be in insurance. It isn't rocket science... Anything you put price controls on soon is in short supply and yet people are bent on doing just that over and over again... Stupid is as stupid does.
33 posted on 12/08/2006 6:45:42 AM PST by DB
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To: Hydroshock

And Texas. They are not writing any "Windstorm" policies either.

Insurance is nothing but a racket. They are no better than the trial lawyers on the other end of the spectrum. Pay premiums up the wazzo for years and never file a claim. Then when you file one, they give the finger salute and raise your premiums to make you drop their policy or they give you notice they are cancelling your policy. Yet none of these big insurers are anywhere close to being in the red, nowhere close.


34 posted on 12/08/2006 6:47:02 AM PST by The South Texan (The Democrat Party and the leftist (ABCCBSNBCCNN NYLATIMES)media are a criminal enterprise!)
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To: Turbo Pig

Not insuring high risk properties lowers rates for those who aren't high risk. It is as simple as that.


35 posted on 12/08/2006 6:48:01 AM PST by DB
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To: Turbo Pig

I agree they have a right to carry who they choose but the public has a right to change carriers. If they don't want the new owners, the other companies may follow suit. Saying well this doesn't affect me so I don't care, is just letting a foot in the door IMO. No, I don't want the government involved but they already are. We can't get flood insurance anywhere else. Is hurricane insurance next?


36 posted on 12/08/2006 6:49:41 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: DB

No matter where you live, you are a high risk for something and we all carry the load.


37 posted on 12/08/2006 6:50:39 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: dogbyte12

This is becomming SOP here in NJ! Prefered Mutual cancelled our Business Owners Policy two months after 9-11. We never, ever filed a claim. I guess owning a retail business in "rural" Sussex County, NJ is too much of a risk.


38 posted on 12/08/2006 6:52:04 AM PST by alice_in_bubbaland (New Jersey gets the corrupt government it deserves!)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

That's strange because I didn't think that acts of war were covered to begin with.


39 posted on 12/08/2006 6:54:32 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: Hydroshock

I quit Allstate after 30 years.
Their rates are outrageous.

I had one claim for a hail damaged roof and they kept trying to recoup those costs by rate increases.

I now have a new home twice the size of the last one at half the premium of the old one.


40 posted on 12/08/2006 6:56:46 AM PST by G Larry (Only strict constructionists on the Supreme Court!)
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To: The South Texan

FOr insurance to work, the total you receive from them in claims has to be less than the total paid in in premiums.

Since almost any complete loss of a house will far exceed the amount paid in by the homeowner in their entire lives, it is clear that most everybody else should feel "ripped off" by their insurance. For example, if you are paying 1000 a year (I used to be less than half of that, and I don't think I'm that expensive yet), and you pay for your entire life, that's less than one hundred thousand dollars, and you'll collect a lot more than that if your house burns down.

I think I'm even ahead right now with my car insurance, having totalled a brand new car two years ago and getting the full retail price out of my company. I'm also even with my homeowners, having gotten money to repair hail damage a couple of years ago, it wasn't that much but as I said I haven't paid that much.

But if you think the insurance company is ripping you off, just don't buy insurance, or find another company. It would be EASY to do so, if the states weren't so over-regulating the industry which makes it hard for small companies to break into the business.


41 posted on 12/08/2006 6:57:15 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: bmwcyle

my take is that based upon passed experience with Allstate, they are looking for a rate hike and need to give their people in the legislature some reason to grant it.


42 posted on 12/08/2006 6:57:40 AM PST by street_lawyer (Conservative Defender of the Faith)
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: alice_in_bubbaland

Is New Jersey a "risk", or is it just that the government their has made it so hard to sell insurance for what it costs that it's not worth it?

There's a reason Allstate pulled out instead of just raising their rates. Usually it's because a state has ruled that all people in their state must get the same rates, and the company can't get people who live in areas NOT at risk to pay enough extra to cover the cost for those who live on the shore where there is a lot of extra risk.

I wonder if that's what happened in New Jersey.


44 posted on 12/08/2006 6:59:14 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Hydroshock

May be a simplistic solution, but I'm in Florida and have thought for a long time, if they want to get out of the homeowner's market fine. But keep them from writing any other type of insurance in the state as well, like auto, etc.

Insurance companies cherry pick.

Our rates went up significantly in Florida due to hurricanes in the past few years. What if we don't have any hurricanes (as in last season) or minimal hurricanes for the next few years? Will the rates go down to reflect their savings....I don't think so!


45 posted on 12/08/2006 6:59:17 AM PST by dawn53
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To: dawn53

My car insurance company pays out money if they have a good year, I've received checks from them in the past.


46 posted on 12/08/2006 7:00:47 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
jI suggest you look at their profits. They are not hurting even after FL and Katrina. Also look at their stock prices. Bad business deals in real estate is their weakness.
47 posted on 12/08/2006 7:01:43 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist
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To: CindyDawg

Our Business is located about and hour and a half from ground zero. Possibly it was just coincidence. Our new carrier charges us three times the amount of the original premium.


48 posted on 12/08/2006 7:02:52 AM PST by alice_in_bubbaland (New Jersey gets the corrupt government it deserves!)
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To: laotzu

"The overwhelming majority of those in the insurance industry are honorable, and honest people."

You can say that about Muslims also. but the ones who are not can sure make up for the good ones.


49 posted on 12/08/2006 7:03:04 AM PST by street_lawyer (Conservative Defender of the Faith)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Since almost any complete loss of a house will far exceed the amount paid in by the homeowner in their entire lives, it is clear that most everybody else should feel "ripped off" by their insurance.

My life insurance company is ripping me off. I pay and pay and pay and never get anything from them. :-)

50 posted on 12/08/2006 7:03:45 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Baker's Iraq Surrender Group - warming up the last helicopter out of Baghdad.)
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