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Allstate to stop insuring new N.J. homeowners
msnbc ^ | 12-7-06

Posted on 12/08/2006 6:17:12 AM PST by Hydroshock

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To: CindyDawg
We (in other states) need to help them fight this. If they can cherry pick in NJ, the next step will probably be Florida and the Gulf States.

Allstate already does in FL. They haven't written new policies in years and they are dropping more and more homeowners every year. All because of hurricane threats.

101 posted on 12/08/2006 8:34:41 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what an Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: jalisco555
Unless you can self-insurance for the value of the property, yes, you need to get insurance. The bank will refuse to write a loan if you don't. As for auto insurance, most states require you to carry a minimum liability policy. If you really can't afford the insurance, stop driving a car.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

102 posted on 12/08/2006 8:35:05 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: mewzilla

I am skeptical of the insurance companies is all. They apparently do only want people who will never need their services. Which is fine for them, it's their right, but I think they gouge alot of us whenever possible.

They aren't planning on lowering rates I bet. Since they are eliminating risky clients, the savings are going to profit or the other consumers left?


103 posted on 12/08/2006 8:35:18 AM PST by dogbyte12
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To: dawn53

....Will the rates go down to reflect their savings.....

Of course they will go down. That's the way markets work. Competative pressure will move rates down


104 posted on 12/08/2006 8:35:42 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. Rozerem commercials give me nightmares)
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To: goldstategop
The insurance is not there to protect them - its there to protect the lender's interest in the property.

Yes, I know.

105 posted on 12/08/2006 8:35:57 AM PST by laotzu
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To: xarmydog
Its just as well my auto extended warranty company went bankrupt when I sought to file a claim. If we had a choice, we could use the money we pay to insure ourselves for unexpected expenses.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

106 posted on 12/08/2006 8:37:02 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: ZULU
Of all the slimeball businesses out there, insurance companies are right up there with oil companies and legal firms.

And used car salesmen.

107 posted on 12/08/2006 8:38:46 AM PST by lucysmom
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Right... I was asking if AllState was in the Mass. Homeowner's Insurance market.


108 posted on 12/08/2006 8:38:46 AM PST by HostileTerritory
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To: dogbyte12
Insurance companies ARE in the business of avoiding risk. New computing technology has now made it possible for them to refuse to ensure ANY ONE they think might ever file a claim. That's how they stay in business - by not writing out claims if they don't have to and they will find any excuse to avoid paying you if its legally possible for them to do so.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

109 posted on 12/08/2006 8:39:53 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
most states require you to carry a minimum liability policy

Most states require that you provide evidence of financial responsibility. Insurance is only one of several acceptable methods of doing so.

No state requires/mandates that you carry auto insurance.

110 posted on 12/08/2006 8:41:12 AM PST by laotzu
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Mass? Maine?

There are a number of "M" states.


111 posted on 12/08/2006 8:41:46 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: xarmydog

What amazes me is that these people don't realize how much it costs them over time. When a pad today comes back at a greater amount over the next twenty years. There is something to say for morality.


112 posted on 12/08/2006 8:41:54 AM PST by bmwcyle (The snake is loose in the garden and Eve just bit the apple.)
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To: Sloth

My All State agent is a woman who was once a husband and father and beer drinking buddy of mine. We served as Jaycee directors together and his wife and kids came to the appropriate gatherings.

She is now quite prosperous and when I inadvertantly call her by her man's name she doesn't bat an eye.


113 posted on 12/08/2006 8:42:56 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. Rozerem commercials give me nightmares)
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To: jjw
In a free market, there would be a price at which it is viable for all state or any other insurer to sell their services.

This is true, and if someone (government) is mucking up the free market for insurance, it will cause these kinds of problems.

However, insurance companies have an additional problem. They need to spread out their risks, so that no single disaster can affect too large a portion of their client base. This is probably the problem here. Allstate may have too much market penetration in New Jersey.

Of course, there's another way around this problem, it's called reinsurance. That's where an insurance company, that insures other insurance companies, takes on a targeted portion of the risk, to mitigate exactly this kind of problem.

I wonder why Allstate isn't just getting reinsurance for some portion of their home portfolio in New Jersey. Probably government interference.

114 posted on 12/08/2006 8:43:21 AM PST by 3niner (War is one game where the home team always loses.)
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To: laotzu
You can post a cash bond with your DMV in most states for up to the minimum amount and still drive. If you have that much money on hand of course to post a bond with them.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

115 posted on 12/08/2006 8:44:32 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: 3niner

Spread out the risk and reinsurance are the traditional models. Now insurance companies also like to cherry pick their customers.


116 posted on 12/08/2006 8:45:06 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: television is just wrong
My inlaws have had their house insurance cancelled twice in the last 5 years without filing a claim.

My parents had their insurance canceled when their German Shepard wouldn't allow a snooping company rep in the fenced backyard. The rep had no appointment, no one was home, he just showed up for a look around.

117 posted on 12/08/2006 8:45:22 AM PST by lucysmom
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To: CindyDawg

The government conveniently decided the slaughter on 9-11-01 wasn't an act of war.


118 posted on 12/08/2006 8:46:28 AM PST by Freedom4US (u)
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To: lucysmom
They can cancel you even if you've always paid your premiums and never posed a risk.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

119 posted on 12/08/2006 8:47:04 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: street_lawyer
You can say that about Muslims also. but the ones who are not can sure make up for the good ones.

That may be true, but you can choose not to do business with a bad insurance company.

120 posted on 12/08/2006 8:48:01 AM PST by 3niner (War is one game where the home team always loses.)
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To: bert

"The issue painfully learned down south is that insurance for homeowners in cosatal areas subject to hurricanes is simply no longer feasible."

Nonsense. If you have a million customers paying $2,000 a year for insurance thats $2,000,000,000. Thats enough to rebuild the 6,700 of the average homes. I've been here 9 years and thru 5 hurricanes with no damage.

Its about the insurance companies not having a guaranteed profit and not managing their risk properly. Otherwise known as greed.


121 posted on 12/08/2006 8:48:26 AM PST by driftdiver
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To: Hydroshock

The insurance companies want to insure only the low risk people and then leave the other people in the hight risk state pool.

Why are building codes so lax as to allow easily damaged structures?

What other business are you allowed to pawn you liability off to the taxpayer?


122 posted on 12/08/2006 8:48:26 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: laotzu
What kind of person would continually funnel money to "slimeballs"?

People who are required for one reason or another to have insurance. Not all of us can afford to self-insure but must have insurance as a condition of a mortgage for instance.

123 posted on 12/08/2006 8:50:40 AM PST by lucysmom
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To: CindyDawg

Moving can always accomplish that.


124 posted on 12/08/2006 8:50:47 AM PST by 3niner (War is one game where the home team always loses.)
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To: CindyDawg

--If they can cherry pick in NJ, the next step will probably be Florida and the Gulf States.--

Florida has already been cheery picked to death.


125 posted on 12/08/2006 8:52:42 AM PST by UpAllNight
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To: Hydroshock

It's not just New Jersey. I read in the WSJ the CEO of AllState just bought a beach front home in North Carolina that won't be insured by AllState either.

AllState can't handle the possible losses after the Katrina debacle.


126 posted on 12/08/2006 8:54:05 AM PST by Eva
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To: twigs

My insurance company tried to pull the same thing after Isabel. They wouldn't even contemplate sending out an adjuster. I called them up, told them what I did for a living and promised them that the "your insurance company sucks.com" web site would be open for business by the end of the week.

The adjuster showed up the next day.


127 posted on 12/08/2006 8:55:01 AM PST by Doohickey (I am not unappeasable. YOU are just too easily appeased.)
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To: mmichaels1970

"Allstate works great here in Ohio. Not many Lake Erie hurricanes I guess"

Not many of the top beaches in the world are in Ohio either.

Been in Florida 9 years, no hurricane damage and lots of time living in a place that millions spend big $$ to visit.


128 posted on 12/08/2006 8:55:22 AM PST by driftdiver
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To: Tamar1973

"Insurance companies are among the most highly regulated companies in the US."

Yep it sure is. And who has the lobbiest in Washington working to manage that regulation in their favor? It sure isn't the average consumer.


129 posted on 12/08/2006 8:57:16 AM PST by driftdiver
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To: goldstategop

What I find disturbing is how many people are driving without ins..If you only carry liability without uninsured motorist,you are in a situation where the other party has none,you could be in a bind.Yes it does cost all good people who do the right thing.When people want me to embellish an estimate,I get rid of them quick.Our ins.agent is employed by Allstate.He has been very good to us,including reducing our payments nineteen dollars a month,due to our driving records.There may be some reason other than what we have heard.Has there been a new law enacted that is not conducive to their business?Just curious.


130 posted on 12/08/2006 8:59:44 AM PST by xarmydog
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To: The South Texan
Insurance is nothing but a racket. They are no better than the trial lawyers on the other end of the spectrum.

They keep trial lawers in business.

131 posted on 12/08/2006 9:02:28 AM PST by lucysmom
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To: goldstategop
You can post a cash bond..

That's right. You can also self-insure.

Why, on earth, do you falsely claim that "most states require you to carry a minimum liability policy".

132 posted on 12/08/2006 9:03:32 AM PST by laotzu
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To: driftdiver

It's also people gaming the system, I would expect.

I used to be president of a homeowner's association in my last house. We had a windstorm blow through (Santa Ana's--70 mph+) and one of the neighbor's palm trees got blown over into their roof.

They had the audacity to ask OUR HOA to pay for the damages even though he planted the tree and it was not in a common area.

He just didn't want to take the hit in premium he knew he was facing.

Glad I got out of that job.


133 posted on 12/08/2006 9:04:35 AM PST by OCCASparky (Steely-Eyed Killer of the Deep)
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To: goldstategop
Its just as well my auto extended warranty company went bankrupt when I sought to file a claim.

Almost all "extended warranties" are scams. They are usually about 90% profit and 10% insurance. The profit is divided between the store that sells it to you, and the underwriter.

It is not at all unusual for the underwriter to be gone, by the time a claim is made. Even if they are still around, they will usually not spend enough to actually fix the problem, when a claim is made.

134 posted on 12/08/2006 9:04:58 AM PST by 3niner (War is one game where the home team always loses.)
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To: durasell
Now insurance companies also like to cherry pick their customers

It is called 'underwriting guidelines' (read: commen sense), and they have always done that.

It is better for good drivers, like us, to not have share our risk with those who are on their fourth DWI.

135 posted on 12/08/2006 9:07:30 AM PST by laotzu
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To: CharlesWayneCT
I think I'm even ahead right now with my car insurance, having totalled a brand new car two years ago and getting the full retail price out of my company.

I'm picking up the slack for you. No claims in 25 years (and that one wasn't my fault) but my insurance goes up every year even with the "good driver discount".

136 posted on 12/08/2006 9:07:30 AM PST by lucysmom
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To: Hydroshock
Allstate ... will stop writing new homeowner policies in New Jersey

That's because of the flood and cold that will attack the area as a result of global warming just like in "The Day After Tomorrow". I saw it in a movie, so it must be true.

137 posted on 12/08/2006 9:07:52 AM PST by JoeGar
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To: riverdawg

"And do you feel ripped off by your life insurance company as well?"

Appple to oranges. Most people buy life insurance knowing it's for their dependents, not for themselves.


138 posted on 12/08/2006 9:12:48 AM PST by The South Texan (The Democrat Party and the leftist (ABCCBSNBCCNN NYLATIMES)media are a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
FOr insurance to work, the total you receive from them in claims has to be less than the total paid in in premiums.

That's not 100% true. The actual answer is that the "income" (premiums and investments) of the insurance company has to be greater than the "out flow" (claims payments, operating expenses, etc).

Insurance companies don't get rich off collecting premiums. They get rich off investing premiums and risk aversion.

139 posted on 12/08/2006 9:15:18 AM PST by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: jrcats
They should allow all Fl insurance companies to include all policies in the country instead of just using Fl as an independent state with the premiums & losses being determined by what happens in Fl.

What????

140 posted on 12/08/2006 9:15:58 AM PST by Howlin (43 days to Destin!)
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To: KarlInOhio

Yes, State Farm. And if your insurance company is publicly traded, just by stock in it, and then if they rip you off you will get paid in dividends.


141 posted on 12/08/2006 9:17:25 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ARA
what's wrong with the oil companies?

Well, for starters, they've been shutting down refineries for years and then claim limited capacity and raise prices.

142 posted on 12/08/2006 9:17:48 AM PST by lucysmom
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To: ZULU

"Of all the slimeball businesses out there, insurance companies are right up there with oil companies and legal firms."

Absolutely. I'm a capitalist, of course, but there are certain businesses that should exist above and beyond simple profit. Other examples, IMHO, include nursing homes and childcare centers.

But I digress, insurance companies are a necessary evil, but that doesn't mean they have to take the "evil" part to heart so strongly...


143 posted on 12/08/2006 9:19:57 AM PST by fleagle
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To: lucysmom
Not all of us can afford to self-insure but must have insurance as a condition of a mortgage for instance.

Taking a mortgage is a choice, not a mandate. Dodging responsibility for our own risks is a choice, not a mandate.

The bank doesn't have to loan us money, and the insurance company doesn't have to accept our risk. Thank goodness they do so anyway.

It is because of them that our lives are as good as they are. I suppose we can be ungrateful and thankless, but; they certainly do not deserve such vitriol.

144 posted on 12/08/2006 9:19:58 AM PST by laotzu
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To: metesky
The insurance companies are plotting to have the Feds take over wind damage the same way they took over flood insurance.

The free market solution!

145 posted on 12/08/2006 9:22:32 AM PST by lucysmom
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To: bert
Rather than put up with the hassle of lawsuits about coverage and coverage valuations it is best to abandon the business.

Just wait until Trent Lott's lawsuit, aided by his scum brother-in-law, Dickie Scruggs, comes up on the calendar.

It's going to be the worst thing that happens to insurance companies in our lifetime if they win. (But why wouldn't they win, in front of a jury of people who also think the insurance companies should pay for something not in their policy, huh?)

146 posted on 12/08/2006 9:22:53 AM PST by Howlin (42 days to Destin!)
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To: lucysmom
They keep trial lawers in business

Underwriters and lawyers are mortal enemies, not co-conspirators.

147 posted on 12/08/2006 9:23:02 AM PST by laotzu
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To: laotzu

Yes, and extremely better for a 20-something who is not overweight with a college education in terms of health insurance compared to a 40-something or 50-something with a few extra pounds and only a high school degree.


148 posted on 12/08/2006 9:23:07 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: KarlInOhio
My life insurance company is ripping me off. I pay and pay and pay and never get anything from them. :-)

But think of how happy you'll be when you finally do collect!

149 posted on 12/08/2006 9:24:07 AM PST by Erasmus (Go to Sebastopol and Crimea River.)
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To: ZULU
Of all the slimeball businesses out there, insurance companies are right up there with oil companies and legal firms.

I'm not fan of the insurance business either, but it is a business and they have to make certain decisions. It is a heavily-regulated industry, perhaps the most heavily-regulated industry we have except for the nuclear industry and the banking industry.

Insurance companies have to maintain what is called a claim reserve, an amount of liquidity that covers what might reasonably expected they would have to provide to cover policyholder casualty losses. In the event of an unexpected, sudden drawdown of this reserve, they must reconstitute it quickly and right the balance between possible claims and the amount of reserve. That means either raising premium rates or reducing exposure, or both. Allstate is probably focusing on limiting future liabilities to protect current policyholders, and will likely be raising rates on existing policies to replenish their reserves. I know my homeowners rates have gone up, and I am nowhere near a coastline, and haven't had any casualty losses for a good number of years now. But because of the spread-the-risk basis of the insurance business, we all pay a larger amount to keep the pie whole.

That said, I am wondering if cutting off new applicants completely was really the only option? Maybe offering new policies at a higher rate would have had the same effect as limiting the future claims liability. The secondary effect would be writing fewer [policies, which is what they got anyway when they nixed the new applicants.

150 posted on 12/08/2006 9:24:30 AM PST by chimera
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