Putin's Russia: Something to Hide?

TOL ^ | 8 December 2006

[GSlob]

The russia itself has been a disaster for everyone within reach since AD 862, if not earlier. Thus, strong disaster is doubly bad.

[Diocletian]

That's a purely subjective statement. I was never much for Russia myself until Putin came along.

[GSlob]

Well, I was born and grew up there, understood the place and got the ef out of it as fast as possible. Of course, my understanding is subjective- but independently of me quite a few others who have been on its receiving end have come to the similar conclusions. Thus there might be something to it. At least till convinced by reason [scriptures do not apply] that the "Russian civ" is not barbarity, "hier stehe Ich. Ich kann nicht anders".

[Diocletian]

Are you an ethnic Russian or non-Russian?

[GSlob]

Non-russian, of course. Thus I look from the outside - a very good vantage point.

[Diocletian]

Coloured by your own background, no doubt :) I understand especially if you're from the Baltic countries or from the west of the Ukraine.

[GSlob]

I am a former muscovite - the ninth circle, Giudecca. And so, I've seen them from the inside, and from the outside - and it stinks, in both cases.

[Diocletian]

What's your opinion of Boris Berezovsky?

[GSlob]

An unpleasant character, but probably among the best which could have been hoped for at the time and place [which merely means that the other actors were still worse]. "The road not taken".

[Diocletian]

You're kidding right? He's tight with the Chechen mafia and Mujahideen, a murderer and thief. In short, he's a traitor.

[GSlob]

I am not kidding in the least, but am absolutely serious, in literal sense. In my opinion, given the intrinsic quality of what you call him a "traitor" to, such civilizational treason is a sine qua non for any self-respecting human being.

[Diocletian]

How can you support a man who supports al-Qaida backed Chechen Mujhaideen?

[GSlob]

Are you familiar with russian history or [let's go easy on you] even with russian literature as taught in russian schools? Tolstoy and Lermontov. The Chechens [since the 1820s] are your garden variety national liberation movement. The wahhabist/al quaeda angle is a very recent phenomenon. Besides, "Russia for Russians", "Chechnya for Chechens" and so on.

[Diocletian]

I'm quite familiar. I'm also aware of that the Chechens, with de facto independence from 96-99 invaded Russian Dagestan in '99. Putin was right to then crush them and their al-Qaida allies.

[M. Espinola]

"Nonsense. Russia hasn't made any moves like the Soviets did in Afghanistan, in Poland, Hungary, etc."

And you want everyone to believe Russia never will, right Comrade?

"Why shouldn't Russia control its own natural wealth? Should American natural wealth be controlled by outsiders? Of course not."

The obvious problem is Putin is attempting to totally control the energy resources of bordering free nations (formerly captive Soviet states) and Putin has and will again utilize energy in order to blackmail nations he wishes to control.

"So by your logic, national pride is "Hitlerian". Is that your position?"

No those are your words, however my position is you are in here being a Putin yes-man. AAs stated previously if you love Russia to such a degree, relocate. Make it a one-way-flight.

[M. Espinola]

Are you an American or Russian or .....?

[JadeEmperor]

"Based on what it has always been, it is, and would be, a hell on earth. Barbari sunt, barbarice egit."

I know for a fact that if I had to choose between being born and growing up in Brezhnev's USSR (which I did) and some developing country (Afghanistan, Bangladesh or anywhere in Africa and most of Latin America, etc) I would choose the former. To me, a 3rd or 4th world country with all its diseases and sanitaion issues and basic day-to-day insecurity is still much more closer to "hell on earth" than an authoritarian, but comparatively civilized and stable (predictable) society. Its a preference I am not ashamed to admit.