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79 Steps to Victory in Iraq?
NY Times ^ | December 10, 2006 | Various Op-Ed Contributors

Posted on 12/09/2006 9:27:34 PM PST by neverdem

President Bush says the Iraq Study Group report “did a good job of showing what is possible.” Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain said, “It offers a strong way forward.” The New York Post called it the work of “surrender monkeys.” There is no shortage of opinions. Here are a dozen worth considering.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 1938; 79stepplan; appeasementdeluxe; bakerboys; cutandrun; guesswork; inanestrategygroup; iraq; iraqsurrendergroup; iraqwar; munich; nojews; nytreasontimes; seniordotages; surrendermonkeys; surrendertojihad
It varies from some realistic assessments to cut & run.
1 posted on 12/09/2006 9:27:36 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem
We Can Watch Iraq From the Sea

It's kind of funny that there's an actual argument that this would work. The Byzantines thought the same thing, when they controlled the "Greek Sea." Didn't really work out all that well for them in the end.

2 posted on 12/09/2006 9:50:55 PM PST by KellyAdmirer
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To: neverdem

Ahem, scratch the word "Victory" and replace it with "Success."...it's Washington's way of wording things.


3 posted on 12/09/2006 10:07:41 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: neverdem

One only needs a Positive Mental Attitude.


4 posted on 12/09/2006 10:26:07 PM PST by endthematrix ("If it's not the Crusades, it's the cartoons.")
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To: neverdem

Sadly there are several on the Iraqi Study Group that have had remarkable careers but this final report will most likely define their place in history instead of their accomplishments.


5 posted on 12/09/2006 10:27:57 PM PST by zeaal (SPREAD TRUTH!)
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To: neverdem
1/ arrest the publishers and editors of the NY Times.

2/ BOMB DAMASCUS AND TEHERAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.

3/ Invite sunni and shiite leaders to a meeting in Baghdad: "Here's a phone, call your subordinates, tell them to assemble and turn in all their weapons.

What, did you say "No"?"

BULLET TO THE BRAIN, and then call in their subordinates with the same orders.
6 posted on 12/09/2006 10:36:08 PM PST by Yehuda ("Land of the free, THANKS TO THE BRAVE!" (Choke on it, pinkos!))
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To: Yehuda
3/ Invite sunni and shiite leaders to a meeting in Baghdad: "Here's a phone, call your subordinates, tell them to assemble and turn in all their weapons.

That will never fly. You're telling them to give up the ultimate natural right, self defense.

7 posted on 12/09/2006 11:15:08 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: zeaal
Baker/Hamilton....They are not finished....and with the help of drive by media,....will table Israels nuclear arsenal for verification and reductions.

Bush's test of character occurs here.....here is where he will stand by Israel or betray.

8 posted on 12/10/2006 12:15:04 AM PST by Parrot_was_devastating
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To: Parrot_was_devastating
Bush's test of character ....

Just hope President Bush is NOT reading Jimmy Carter's new book.

9 posted on 12/10/2006 12:17:07 AM PST by zeaal (SPREAD TRUTH!)
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To: neverdem

"That will never fly. You're telling them to give up the ultimate natural right, self defense."

They want a nation with attendant rights? THEY CAN'T HANDLE A NATION.

When they stop killing each other and us then they can have their weapons back.

PSSST - ITS NOT THE SUNNIS AND SHIA AND AQ - ITS ISLAM. THE MISTAKE IS TRYING TO DEMOCRATIZE SATANISM. Once they have been dejihadified they can have their weapons, nation, etc.


10 posted on 12/10/2006 12:23:01 AM PST by Yehuda ("Land of the free, THANKS TO THE BRAVE!" (Choke on it, pinkos!))
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To: Yehuda
Democracy and Islam are like oil and water.

You can't have both.

What the West fails to understand is that not all people want to be free (in the Western sense).

Those who choose Islam have chosen to submit to God's law and not the law of man.

Unlike man. God is infallible and as such so is his rule.

11 posted on 12/10/2006 1:17:37 AM PST by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: neverdem

It's really a no-brainer--even for armchair generals who've only read a little military history. The way to win in Iraq is to step on and denazify the main source of trouble in the middle east and guerrilla strength in Iraq: Iran.


12 posted on 12/10/2006 2:25:58 AM PST by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --Saint Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: neverdem

Only in Washington DC would you form a Congressional Commission and include not a single retired military officer with Counter Insurgency expereince or any Arab-Persian Political/Cultural Regional Expert on the panel.

Some where the ghost of LBJ is laughing his butt off watching another bunch of DC policy geeks and Beltway insiders trying to micromanage a war from 9,000 miles away


13 posted on 12/10/2006 2:47:40 AM PST by MNJohnnie (I do not forgive Senator John McCain for helping destroy everything we built since 1980.)
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To: expatguy
All ready have both in Turkey and Iraq and Afghanistan.

Perhaps the rabid ones might explain why the bulk of the fighting and dying in this war on OUR side is being done BY Muslims?

This Talk Radio dogma of "All Islam is the enemy" is one of total ignorance about both what is actually going on in the world as well as how Counter Insurgency works.

The Russians followed your dogma in Afghanistan during the 1980s. How did it work out for them?
14 posted on 12/10/2006 2:51:26 AM PST by MNJohnnie (I do not forgive Senator John McCain for helping destroy everything we built since 1980.)
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To: expatguy
All ready have both in Turkey and Iraq and Afghanistan.

Perhaps the rabid ones might explain why the bulk of the fighting and dying in this war on OUR side is being done BY Muslims?

This Talk Radio dogma of "All Islam is the enemy" is one of total ignorance about both what is actually going on in the world as well as how Counter Insurgency works.

The Russians followed your dogma in Afghanistan during the 1980s. How did it work out for them?
15 posted on 12/10/2006 2:51:57 AM PST by MNJohnnie (I do not forgive Senator John McCain for helping destroy everything we built since 1980.)
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To: neverdem

Our actions in the middle east have always been half-steps. Policies are run by people like Baker and Cheney who want to go only far enough to ensure stable oil supplies. First means was secular dictators. Now it's democracy. Neither work in jihadist tribal societies; the power of dictatorships always falls to the concerns of the tribes, and democracy never takes root. Unfortunately, jihadism takes no half steps and what the ISG ignores is the victory of jihadism in the middle east. The result is that oil supply stability is in the last 10 seconds of the countdown. In the absence of US leadership - and it is entirely absent - Saudi arabia and iran have an opportunity now to dictate terms in iraq and align themselves against us. They can draw up the lines of control in the middle east, then broker a separate peace with israel and we'll have no leverage whatsoever with the three major oil suppliers.


16 posted on 12/10/2006 3:00:47 AM PST by gotribe (There's still time to begin a war in Iraq.)
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To: neverdem
Realism? More like a Vietnam bugout with the Jews as the designated fall guys. As Mark Steyn said of it, its what they call in Hollywood "a high concept. Half of those infamous 79 steps involve making sure the Jews go down the waste disposal. The rest is just making nice nice with the region's bullies and praying to God Mahmoud Ahmedinejad doesn't blow up New York City down the road with one of his new nuke toys.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

17 posted on 12/10/2006 3:18:38 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: neverdem
Two key steps to victory in Iraq would be the overthrown of the Iranian and Syrian terrorist exporting dictatorships.

Iraqis remove clothes of victims from the site where a suicide bomber blew himself up on a bus traveling through Baghdad's impoverished district of Sadr City, December 06. President George W. Bush embarks on a soul-searching quest for a new Iraq policy this week, after the shock-therapy indictment of his conduct of the war by an independent policy commission.(AFP/File/Ali Aol Saadi)

18 posted on 12/10/2006 4:10:06 AM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free!)
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To: M. Espinola

Yep. Instead, the ISG calls for talks with them. They want us to beg to the Mullahs and the Sheikhs. No wonder the Dems love the report.


19 posted on 12/10/2006 4:35:07 AM PST by PghBaldy (Reporter: Are you surprised? Nancy Pelosi: No. My eyes always look like this.)
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To: neverdem

according to the antisemetic baker....79 steps to victory in iraq...

#'s 1-78....blame Israel and the Jews
#79 .... cut & run!!!

are any points missed???


20 posted on 12/10/2006 5:29:10 AM PST by hnj_00
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To: hnj_00
You can read for yourself at the link below, if you're in to that sort of thing.

The ISG Report

While Baker does reference Israel in ways that are more relevent to Middle Eastern affairs, and irrelevent to Iraq, you may find an item or two in the 79 that you agree with.

21 posted on 12/10/2006 5:38:43 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Steel Wolf

I have read it ....anything that I agree with is still part of what the administration has basically advocated....everything else is what I have already stated...in the end...baker believes Israel should give up the Golan Heights...eventually the West Bank and East Jersusalem....pre-1967 borders...of course he does not advocate Syria/Suadi Arabia/Egypt/Lebanon-hizzbola/or the palestinians-hamas giving up anything including recognizing Israel's right to exist....in order words..he advocates Israel's demise/destruction/suicide.....
since when does a nation win wars and then fall on its sword for peace that can never exist...

if this is the way the US will aid Israel....it is akin to what Oscar Wilde once wrote..." a true friend stabs you in the front!"

what report did you read?????


22 posted on 12/10/2006 5:54:53 AM PST by hnj_00
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To: hnj_00

The ISG report, at the link above.


23 posted on 12/10/2006 6:01:02 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Parrot_was_devastating
Bush's test of character occurs here.....here is where he will stand by Israel or betray.
Not to mention, here is where he stands by defending America against Islamofacism or choosing appeasement.
24 posted on 12/10/2006 6:04:36 AM PST by samtheman (The Democrats are the DhimmiGods of the New Religion of PC)
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To: hnj_00
#'s 1-78....blame Israel and the Jews
#79 .... cut & run!!!
Best summary yet.
25 posted on 12/10/2006 6:06:53 AM PST by samtheman (The Democrats are the DhimmiGods of the New Religion of PC)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Ahem, scratch the word "Victory" and replace it with "Success."...it's Washington's way of wording things.

No, I think the word you are looking for is "managed."

26 posted on 12/10/2006 6:24:10 AM PST by depressed in 06 (Bolshecrat, the party of what if and whine.)
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To: MNJohnnie
Sorry, but I will beg to differ with you MNJohnnie.

Just as collectivism being the antithesis to freedom and democracy so you will find the ideology and religion of Islam.

Filleting the political aspects of Islam from the religion is an exercise in futility. It is not possible without destroying the host religion.

Any country that has to resort to authoritative measures to hold the illusion of democracy in place is not a democracy.

27 posted on 12/10/2006 6:33:52 AM PST by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: neverdem

Step 1: The 79 steps are destined to failure.

Step 2: Blame Bush for the failure.


28 posted on 12/10/2006 6:34:58 AM PST by depressed in 06 (Bolshecrat, the party of what if and whine.)
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To: goldstategop
Realism? More like a Vietnam bugout with the Jews as the designated fall guys. As Mark Steyn said of it, its what they call in Hollywood "a high concept. Half of those infamous 79 steps involve making sure the Jews go down the waste disposal. The rest is just making nice nice with the region's bullies and praying to God Mahmoud Ahmedinejad doesn't blow up New York City down the road with one of his new nuke toys.

My statement addressed the the range of comments from the 12 commentators, not the hopeless Iraq Study Group Report.

29 posted on 12/10/2006 7:07:33 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: MNJohnnie

OK, my life is now over. I'm agreeing with MNJohnie.

("Bring in the clowns. There ought to be clowns.")


30 posted on 12/10/2006 7:10:34 AM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: neverdem

I have sit here for two weeks and, read many accts. of solving our problem in the Iraq war.

I have deduced, the arm chair generals who say we must fight as we did in World War Two, and previous wars where we used the full scale of our military in destroying the enemy, have it right.

If those in DC who are running this war doesn't get their heads out of their ass we are definitely going to loose this fight.

People in America think our military might is so great there's no way we can loose. How deceived they are.


31 posted on 12/10/2006 7:20:06 AM PST by buck61
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To: neverdem
Fouad Ajami captures the essence of the ISG report with one succinct paragraph:

Mr. Baker returns untutored in the ways of that region. A new, deadly struggle has erupted between American power and the forces of terrorism in the Islamic world. A “wise man” who proposes to fix Iraq by returning the Golan Heights to Syria has missed the meaning of Iraq. This report describes a long-vanished Arab world: Its poverty is given away in its banal language, in that familiar assertion that all of history yields to the fixer’s touch.

32 posted on 12/10/2006 7:21:24 AM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01

guess steel wolf should brush up on his reading!!!!


33 posted on 12/10/2006 7:38:27 AM PST by hnj_00
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To: hnj_00
guess steel wolf should brush up on his reading!!!!

Guess you should brush up on your FR etiquette, and ping me to a post you're talking about me in.

As far as brushing up on reading, my point was that Baker's references to Israel were irrelevant to Iraq, and that beyond that, you may find some things in the ISG you agree with.

President Bush is going to ignore the nonsense about Israel, and look at what deals with Iraq. That's not too hard to follow, is it?

34 posted on 12/10/2006 7:43:43 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: neverdem

We should move our troops to the Kurdish controlled area of Iraq because they have their act together. It's peaceful and prospering. Protect that area at all cost.

Forget Baghdad metro area. If the Iraqis in that area want to kill each other off....give them the space and let them do it.
The violence is like a deadly virus....let the virus run its course and allow it die out naturally.






35 posted on 12/10/2006 7:47:02 AM PST by Milligan (There is a connection! There is a connection! There is a connection!)
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To: Steel Wolf

wrong again.....Bush will ignore most of the report...the only issue that he should be addressing is how to move more troops into iraq and win the war!!! If this would have been done in the beginning and he had not tried to play for a tie and be pc...this would have been over and the troops would not be in such harms way!!!!!

Of course with most of the republicans now trying to cover their own 6's this won't happen!!!!

you seem to be such an expert....maybe even you could understand this....

and as far as pinging you...why bother.....it is quite apparent that others have concurred with the oversimplification of the report...."That's not too hard to follow, is it?"


36 posted on 12/10/2006 10:11:22 AM PST by hnj_00
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To: hnj_00
The ISG has produced a report that is dedicated to a single proposition...and it ain't winning the war in Iraq.

Instead, it's all about saving Beltway ass.

37 posted on 12/10/2006 10:17:51 AM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: MNJohnnie
Only in Washington DC would you form a Congressional Commission and include not a single retired military officer with Counter Insurgency expereince or any Arab-Persian Political/Cultural Regional Expert on the panel.

Some where the ghost of LBJ is laughing his butt off watching another bunch of DC policy geeks and Beltway insiders trying to micromanage a war from 9,000 miles away

Nobody should be laughing. You have pubbies from Sam Brownback to Gordon Smith bailing out on the Administrations' policy. The U.S. doesn't seem to appreciate how serious this is.

38 posted on 12/10/2006 10:22:15 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: gotribe
Curious how all the loudest Dinocon Arm Chair Generals here NEVER bother to consider the fact that most of the people fighting and dying on OUR side right now ARE Muslims.

This relentless refusal to give up this dogma of endlessly reposting "Iraq strategy determined by listening to Talk Radio pseudo Conservative screamers" is simply childish. WAY past time the Know Nothings quit screaming their ignorant dogmas and actually take the time to learn even ONE fact about Iraq.
39 posted on 12/10/2006 12:42:14 PM PST by MNJohnnie (I do not forgive Senator John McCain for helping destroy everything we built since 1980.)
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To: PghBaldy
It's more then apparent the hard fought lessons of pre-WWII appeasement have either been forgotten or are being totally ignored when it comes to Iran and Syria.
40 posted on 12/10/2006 4:21:20 PM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free!)
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