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A difficult choice on sanctions for Kosovo
RIA Novosti ^ | Dec 08, 2006 | Alexander Bogatyrev

Posted on 12/10/2006 12:21:12 PM PST by sergey1973

MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti military commentator Alexander Bogatyrev) - The other day, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said it would be counterproductive to introduce UN sanctions against either side in the Kosovo conflict.

Before that, the Russian ambassador to Belgrade had said that Russia would veto any "harsh" UN Security Council resolution on Kosovo.

The sanctions in question are directed against Serbia.

According to the Kremlin, the Kosovo dispute can be resolved only at the negotiating table and there should be no deadlines. The sides involved in the conflict need time to resolve their problems.

Criminal organizations have taken over the province's authorities since 1999. Youth groups in Kosovo are growing increasingly radical, so much so that on November 27, the Albanian Flag Day was marked in Kosovo under circumstances of tightened security guaranteed by the presence of nearly all the Kosovo Force's (or KFOR, the province's multinational peacekeeping force) troops and police.

(Excerpt) Read more at en.rian.ru ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: balkans; globaljihad; ihoppy; islam; jihad; kosovo; muslim; russia; serbia; toothlessdhimmi; wot; wrongside
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"Infidel" Russia, US and UK need to start cooperating to prevent spread of Islam in Balkans and around the world instead of siding with Islamists. Either Infidels will hang together or hang separately if Islamic rule spreads round the world.
1 posted on 12/10/2006 12:21:15 PM PST by sergey1973
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To: backtothestreets; elcid1970; The_Media_never_lie; quesney; kronos77; G8 Diplomat; floridavoter2; ...

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Please FRMail me if you want to be added or removed from the Russia & Eurasia Ping list.


2 posted on 12/10/2006 12:22:02 PM PST by sergey1973
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To: sergey1973
The simple solution is to disregard Russian objections to Kosovo's independence from Serbia.

Russia was an obstacle to a solution in the Balkans during the 1990's, and remains so today. Russia's ability to obstruct Western policy aims, however, has diminished considerably.

3 posted on 12/10/2006 12:47:15 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: sergey1973

Quagmire.


4 posted on 12/10/2006 12:49:07 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: Hoplite; joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ...

"The simple solution is to disregard Russian objections to Kosovo's independence from Serbia."

If you live in Europe, you would know that there is no stupider thing than to "disregard Russian objections", being friend or enemy of Russia.


5 posted on 12/10/2006 1:25:20 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: sergey1973

Longest period of peace in Europe was during "Holly Alliance" consisting of Russia,Prussia and Austria.

Longest period of peace and prosperity will be when alliance of Russia, USA, EU and Israel is formed, All and any other alliances will just serve islamofascists in their antichristian combinations.


6 posted on 12/10/2006 1:28:31 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: Hoplite; sergey1973

Helot, the dhimmi, has spoken.


7 posted on 12/10/2006 1:35:01 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: kronos77
If Serbia wants to remain a Russian vassal state, it is free to do so.

It can be the Balkans' Kaliningrad.

Have fun with it.

8 posted on 12/10/2006 1:37:56 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

The problem is for you history begins and ends with the BJs in the WH and the BJ's terrorist kissing AH Clark.

Your remarks regarding the Balkans and in this case Russia - expose your total ignorance in these matters.


9 posted on 12/10/2006 1:39:08 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: Hoplite
"If Serbia wants to remain a Russian vassal state, it is free to do so."

Well if I had to choose between being a "Russian vassal" (as you put it), or being "a dhimmi of the Caliphate", know which one that I would choose!

Insane US policies have driven Serbia into Russia's arms and I don't blame them. US Balkan policies have been so dimwitted that a second-grader could have done better. And yet you continue to defend them? Says quite a lot about you, Hopeless! (Was first grade just too much of a challenge for you?)

10 posted on 12/10/2006 1:54:12 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Hoplite; kronos77

How long is the US going to continue to be a vassal to the "Kosovars"?


11 posted on 12/10/2006 1:59:47 PM PST by F-117A (Who is Jamil Hussein?)
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To: Hoplite

Comparing to US, EU, and Islamists shit place that we are today... Well, there are no islamists in kaliningrad...

trust me, we would switch places with Kaliningrad any time. peace, no wars, No muslims, no EU "friends"...


12 posted on 12/10/2006 2:02:38 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: Bokababe
Insane US policies have driven Serbia into Russia's arms and I don't blame them.

Of course - all our fault.

Serbians aren't responsible for their own actions, and are powerless to act in their own best interests.

13 posted on 12/10/2006 2:03:48 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Bokababe

"Allways trust Muslim, all that he wants is to kill you. Newer trust West, they have sent a Muslim upon you"

Serbian saying...


14 posted on 12/10/2006 2:05:28 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: Hoplite

"Of course - all our fault.

Serbians aren't responsible for their own actions, and are powerless to act in their own best interests."

Finaly, you admitt...


15 posted on 12/10/2006 2:06:18 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: kronos77
trust me, we would switch places with Kaliningrad any time. peace, no wars, No muslims, no EU "friends"...

And you can have it.

Just not with Kosovo.

Win some, lose some.

16 posted on 12/10/2006 2:07:06 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

NATO is going away from Balkans.
They want to ent it. NATO hopes that it can impose its own solutions before they leave.

Only one thing is cerant- NATO is leaving for east, nothing else is.


17 posted on 12/10/2006 2:11:47 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: kronos77
Going away by enrolling members in the region?

Ok, sure. Whatever you say.

It will no doubt work out better for Serbia once the EU takes over from NATO in Kosovo as it has done in Bosnia, what with their aims being so diametrically opposed and all.

18 posted on 12/10/2006 2:22:32 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: kronos77

no EU "friends".

accepting EU "friends" is the quickest way to ensure your eradication at the hands of the moose slammers.


19 posted on 12/10/2006 2:24:22 PM PST by Dmitry Vukicevich (Vegetarian: Indian Lingo for lousy hunter)
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To: Hoplite

Standard procedure, enroling locals when you are going away, just like former colonial powers...


20 posted on 12/10/2006 2:27:10 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: Hoplite

Of course - all our fault.

Well we did bomb them for no other reason then to protect the "innocent" muslims. It wasn't that long ago.


21 posted on 12/10/2006 2:27:14 PM PST by Dmitry Vukicevich (Vegetarian: Indian Lingo for lousy hunter)
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To: Dmitry Vukicevich
Well we did bomb them for no other reason then to protect the "innocent" muslims.

Just as we told them we would back in 1992 when President Bush issued our "Christmas Warning" to Milosevic.

We'd have thought the Serbs would have learned from their experiences in Croatia and Bosnia, but, alas, such was not the case.

Some folks, you just can't reach.

22 posted on 12/10/2006 2:41:18 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
We'd have thought the Serbs would have learned from their experiences in Croatia and Bosnia, but, alas, such was not the case.

Some folks, you just can't reach.

So let us help the muslims wipe them out, it was by no means as one sided as they wish you to think.
23 posted on 12/10/2006 2:49:45 PM PST by Dmitry Vukicevich (Vegetarian: Indian Lingo for lousy hunter)
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To: Dmitry Vukicevich
The whole "Serbs vs. Muslims" thing would have held a lot more water had the Serbs not punched so many holes in it by not bothering to differentiate between their Muslim and non-Muslim opponents.

But if you want to still believe it, well knock yourself out.

24 posted on 12/10/2006 3:00:16 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: sergey1973

We would indeed be wise not to sanction Serbia at this point in time...


25 posted on 12/10/2006 3:09:05 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Dont overestimate the decency of the human race. H. L. Mencken)
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To: kronos77

I recall reading a novel many years ago (long before the break up of Yugoslavia) where there was a scene with two British diplomats were discussing the Balkans with a (pre-Revolution) Russian and American diplomats.

In the book (I can't recall the name of it), the British were talking about how various other countries in the world were demanding "spheres of influence in the Balkan region" and how they thought they could "satisfy all the interested parties" with a plan that they had developed, including a map where they had redrawn borders. The Russian & the American listened quietly to all of this until they finally asked the Russian what he thought of it. (The British assumed that the American would agree with them.)

The Russian responded, "Your solution is arrogant and insane. You will solve nothing in the region until you quit treating the Balkans as though it a box of chocolates that you have the right to pass around for your chosen political pets to be granted a piece of! It is not yours to take or to give, it is the lands that the people who live there, who've spilled there blood for the right to decide their own fate, not to have some failed politicans-turned-"diplomats" to decide for them. You don't know these people, we do. When they say, "Sloboda ili Smrt" (Freedom or Death), they mean it!" Finally the British looked to the American diplomat for reinforcement, and the American said to them, "The Russian is right. What you tried to do here to the people of the Balkans is what you tried to do to us in America years ago. That's why we had a damned Revolution! It really is amazing how a Cambridge education can knock all the common sense out of you -- did you really think that we would ever agree to this?" And the American & the Russian (who had looked at each other with intial suspicion) both walked out of the meeting together.

In fact, the only that is different from the book and today's real life, is that it is EU & UN bureaucrats "developing the plan" instead of just the British, and America has switched sides. What the Russian character said still is spot on.


26 posted on 12/10/2006 3:09:44 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Hoplite

Let us lay all the blame on the Serbs, I see now.


27 posted on 12/10/2006 3:17:17 PM PST by Dmitry Vukicevich (Vegetarian: Indian Lingo for lousy hunter)
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To: Dmitry Vukicevich
Let us lay all the blame on the Serbs

Not all, but not none either. Responsibility for what happened during Yugoslavia's disintigration wasn't the work of one group, but theories of equal blame just aren't credible.

28 posted on 12/10/2006 3:33:41 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Bokababe

Babem you just earned a karma point!

Your description is maybe the bast description of balkans ever.

And just let me add Bismark opinion on Balkans:

"The whole of Balkans is not worthy of a life of a single Pomeranian grenadier, nut if world war starts it would start on balkan, over insignificant reason"

Keiser sacked him. He believed that Balkan is important starting a war over it.
Needless to say, Bismark is remebered as mastermind politician and statesman, and Keiser as a las german Keiser...


29 posted on 12/10/2006 3:52:59 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: Hoplite

And what's the other option? An American vassal? How about nobody's vassal?


30 posted on 12/10/2006 7:35:16 PM PST by Banat (DEO ?? REGI ?? PATRI?? | http://degaullist.wordpress.com)
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To: Hoplite

Your "simple solution" is the simple-minded path to Dhimmitude.

I guess you have a distorted view of the world from those kneepads.


31 posted on 12/10/2006 8:25:40 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Hoplite

The Serbs would have corrected the "problem" on their own; 9/11 reminded us that it is our problem as well.


32 posted on 12/10/2006 8:27:27 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Hoplite
["Just as we told them we would back in 1992 ...
Some folks, you just can't reach."]

Right, like President Tudjman who stated; "What can we do with these Serbs? We can't send them to the moon or stick them our hats!...[the Serbs had] disappeared ignominlously, as if they had never populated this land. We urged them to stay, but they didn't listen to us and, well bon voyage."

Ancient hatred.
33 posted on 12/10/2006 10:37:34 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
>>>>>>>>>We would indeed be wise not to sanction Serbia at this point in time...<<<<<<<<<<<

After bombing of Serbia, the damage to infrastructure was $60-90 Billion and Serbia never recovered. Millions are unemployed or pretending to be employed not receiving salaries for months. The only businesses that operate are the ones in foreign hands. It is not very likely that U.S. Government will impose sanctions on U.S. Steel and Philip Morris.

34 posted on 12/10/2006 10:44:38 PM PST by DTA (Mr. President., Condy is asleep at the wheel !)
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To: sergey1973
>>>>>>Either Infidels will hang together or hang separately if Islamic rule spreads round the world<<<<<

You can always count on me.

Proud to be Infidel, Allahu Fubar !

35 posted on 12/10/2006 10:48:19 PM PST by DTA (Mr. President., Condy is asleep at the wheel !)
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To: Hoplite

Wrong, US foreign policy has been on obstacle unto itself, it has a habit of tripping over itself.


36 posted on 12/11/2006 6:48:27 AM PST by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: Hoplite; kronos77; eleni121

"It can be the Balkans' Kaliningrad."

I really admire your optimism, Hoplite, but under Muslim rule it's more likely to be Balkans' Afghanistan or "Palestine" or any other crappy Islamic state that exist in the world. I think the world has more than enough crappy terror spreading Muslim states and it does not need any more.


37 posted on 12/11/2006 3:14:46 PM PST by sergey1973
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To: Hoplite; kronos77; eleni121

To be more specific, independent Muslim Kosovo will surely be another Islamic hell hole spreading Islamic rule and all the misery associated with it in the region. While I have no sympathy for Milosevic regime, giving Muslims yet another state in the region known as Europe's powder keg is a long-term self-defeating strategy for 'infidels' that will surely backfire and already backfiring.


38 posted on 12/11/2006 3:32:42 PM PST by sergey1973
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To: sergey1973
under Muslim rule

Try re-reading the relevant posts.

39 posted on 12/11/2006 3:33:12 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Tried already. I made a mistake in previous post thinking you were referring to Kosovo as "Balkan's Kaliningrad" rather than the entire Serbia. This was my mistake in reference but my message is the same: independent Muslim Kosovo will be another victory for Islamists and defeat for the civilization.

The world is full of Islamic states and whenever Islamic laws rule in full, it brings misery to all, especially to women and infidels. I don't want to see Islam spreading either in Balkans or anywhere in the world, and I don't buy these optimistic songs of 'moderate' or 'liberal' Islam. Islam at its core is a totalitarian political-religious ideology and letting Muslims to create more of the Muslim states is a slow civilizational suicide. I think enough is said.


40 posted on 12/11/2006 3:40:13 PM PST by sergey1973
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To: sergey1973
We've compared what we know about Serbia spreading misery and death in the neighborhood vs. your concerns about Albanian "Islamists" and have found your concerns to lack much merit.

The Albanians are part of the coalition in Iraq. Serbia isn't.

Albania is moving towards NATO and the EU, Serbia is stuck in neutral because it prefers to protect a genocidal freak.

It wasn't that hard to make a decision on Kosovo's independence, really. Once you get past all the Serbian BS, there's no real alternative.

41 posted on 12/11/2006 4:14:01 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: sergey1973; Hoplite; All
Helot (calls himself Hoplite- the Spartans would have laugh over that one)----There is nothing so ridiculous as idiots like you spreading lies on this forum. You are either dumb as a dodo or you work for the Muslim Turkistani parastate--either way it's sickening

Lie One: misery and death
Fact: the only misery and death that has been spread is by Croatian and Muslims against Serbians supported by BJ (Clinton)
Lie: Albanians in Iraq---
Fact: 120 non combat Albanians under supervision---SERBIANS-1000 combat troops in Afghanistan not to mention the red berets doing a great job in Iraq
Lie: Serbians started the war
Fact: The federal prime minister of Yugoslavia, Ante Markovic, A CROATIAN - ordered the army into Slovenia to restore order which was met by armed resistance and retired to barracks in Croatia to avoid further bloodshed. And then the Croatian security and paramilitary forces surrounded the federal barracks and fighting broke out in Croatia. At this time Milosevic as president of Serbia HAD NO CONTROL OVER THE FEDERAL ARMY.

FACT: Federal Minister of Defense and the foreign minister were also Croatians.
FACT: BJ was hell bent on arming Muslim terrorists in Bosnia and Kosovo---read the Dutch report!

Previous to BJ no one in the US was saying that Kosovo (or the Krajina) had any legitimate right as an independent nation status until BJ and his Muzzie narco pals convinced him otherwise.
42 posted on 12/11/2006 6:03:25 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: Hoplite
["Serbia is stuck in neutral because it prefers to protect a genocidal freak."]

So tell me Hoplite, just who is (are) in Belgrade that is (are) protecting a "genocidal freak?"

Perhaps you missed what Kostunica said yesterday?

Note: You need to knock off your use of word "genocide" and use it when it is appropriate.
43 posted on 12/11/2006 9:06:10 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Did Kostunica say something yesterday?

Pray tell, was it more empty posturing over Kosovo for domestic consumption, or did he say something about Mladic?

You need to knock off your use of word "genocide" and use it when it is appropriate.

"People and peoples are not pawns nor are they keys in one's pocket that can be shifted from here to there. ... Therefore, we cannot cleanse nor can we have a sieve to sift so that only Serbs would stay, or that the Serbs would fall through and the rest leave. Well that is, that will not, I do not know how Mr. Krajisnik and Mr. Karadzic would explain this to the world. People, that would be genocide."

Not really the dictionary nor legal definition, but sufficient to damn Ratko Mladic with his own words.

His later actions, btw, have met the legal requirements for genocide, so my use of the word was, and shall continue to remain entirely appropriate.

Suck it up.

44 posted on 12/11/2006 10:22:40 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
["His later actions, btw, have met the legal requirements for genocide, so my use of the word was, and shall continue to remain entirely appropriate"]

He has not been found guilty of "genocide" in a court of law.

And, by the way, I do not consider "his later actions" to be considered genocide. A mass murder occurred, but not genocide (so I'm clear).
45 posted on 12/12/2006 8:12:55 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic

Regarding helot passing as a hoplite --Don't try to argue with someone who has bought into the myth of secularized islam. He wouldn't know the definition of a genocide if it slammed in his stubborn head.

He actually gives credence to the fairy tale of peaceful coexistence of muslims and Christians under the ottoman pashas all eveyone singing kumbaya--until those awful serbians and greeks kicked their sorry asses out. He is simply ridiculous!

Well guess what? The asskicking is going to happen again only this time it will be the sorry asses of the albanians living illegaly in kosovo or FYROM or wherever...


46 posted on 12/12/2006 8:30:18 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
He has not been found guilty of "genocide" in a court of law.

No, but given that his subordinate, General Krstic, has, it's not really too difficult to figure out what's going to happen if and when he finally makes it to the Hague, is it?

Why do you think he's refused any and all offers to turn himself in?

Unlike you, he knows exactly what he did, and that we know as well.

I do not consider...

Irrelevant, like most Serb opinions these days.

47 posted on 12/12/2006 9:06:45 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

me: ["I do not consider..."]
you: ["Irrelevant, like most Serb opinions these days."]

me: That is your opinion, but in my opinion I do not believe your opinion is accurate. And, in my opinion, I think I have better judgement.




48 posted on 12/12/2006 10:15:15 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Hoplite

Your new kneepads must have come in. That always sets you back mentally a few months.


49 posted on 12/13/2006 4:07:25 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic

We can guess what Hoppy's Final Solution to the Christian Problem in the Balkans might look like.


50 posted on 12/13/2006 4:09:07 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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