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Can Homosexuality Be Treated and Prevented? (James Dobson, Ph.D. Child Development)
Focus on the Family ^ | June, 2005? | James Dobson

Posted on 12/10/2006 10:48:22 PM PST by unspun

Dear Friends:

June greetings to you! This is a busy month, as spring gives way to summer and many families begin piling in their cars to take that long-awaited vacation. It's also the month in which we celebrate Father's Day—an observance that, while largely fueled by greeting card companies, nevertheless provides us with an excellent opportunity to recognize the importance of a father in the lives of his children. Indeed, the scourge of divorce, broken homes, and even busy schedules have deprived millions of children of a father's critical presence in their lives. My prayer is that, beyond simply setting aside a day to recognize fathers, our culture will once again embrace and promote fatherhood and its irreplaceable role in the lives of the next generation. Because good fathers play such a vital role in the development of healthy sexual attitudes in children, and because the absence of fathers can be detrimental to them, I want to devote my letter this month to the subject of sexual identity in kids and the forces that influence it.

And that takes me back to March, when I was a guest on the Larry King Live program. During that hour-long interview, Mr. King asked me several brief questions about the origins of homosexuality. I commented briefly that, while individuals are not born with this condition, neither do they typically choose it. Unfortunately, our conversation then veered all over the map and Mr. King never came back to ask me the obvious follow-up question: "Then what does cause a person to be attracted to the same sex?" Consequently, we have received a number of letters and phone calls here at Focus on the Family from confused viewers asking me to clarify the point I was making. I will try to do precisely that in this letter.

Chapter 9 of my latest book, Bringing Up Boys, provides a definitive explanation, I believe, regarding the origins of homosexuality. Let me quote the following excerpts, which should be of extreme importance to every parent who is raising one or more boys. I pray that this discussion will be helpful in that context. (Note: because this chapter in its original form runs more than 8,000 words, the passage that follows represents only the issue of "origins and prevention" of homosexuality. Some of you may want to track down a copy of Bringing Up Boys to obtain the full text.)

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The letter that begins this excerpt contains some disturbing expressions from a 13-year-old boy. Please read with discretion.

The Origins of Homosexuality A few years ago, I received the following scribbled note from a very troubled youth. He wrote:

Dear Dr. Dobson:

I've been putting this off for a long time so I'm finally writing you a letter. I am a thirteen year old boy. I have listened to your tapes [Preparing for Adolescence] but not the complete set. I did listen to the one on sex though.

Getting to the point, I don't know if I have a serious problem or a passing? (I don't know the word for it). All through my life (very short) I have acted and look much more like a girl than a boy. When I was little, I would always wear finger nail polish, dresses, and the sort. I also had an older cousin who would take us (little cousins) into his room and show us his genitals. I'm afraid I have a little sodomy in me. It was very hard for me to write what I just did. I don't want to be homosexual but I'm afraid, very afraid. That was hard to write too. Let me explain further.

Through my higher grades in school (I'm in seventh grade) kids have always called me names (gay, fag etc.), and made fun of me. It's been hard. I have masturbated (I guess) but gone too far. When I was little (not that little) I tried to more than once to suck my own penis (to be frank). That sounds very bad and looks even worse to read it. I pray that nothing is wrong with me.

Very recently I have done such acts as looking (maybe lusting, I pray so hard that I wasn't) at myself in skimpy underwear. Whenever I wear it I feel a like sexual sensation. Yesterday in the bathroom (in front of the mirror), I wiggled my body very rapidly, making my genitals bounce up and down. I get a little bit of that feeling mentioned above as I write this. After I did this, I immediately asked forgiveness of God, went in the shower but did it again there. I prayed more and felt very bad. I talked with one of my pastors and told him at that point I probably preferred a man's body over a woman's. Now that was hard to say! He said he didn't think anything was wrong with me (I don't know how else to say it. He apparently thought it was passing), but I feel very badly and want to know why. The pastor mentioned above is one I go to for advice very often.

About my spiritual life; I came to Christ only about a year ago but have grown very much. I have also done lot's wrong. I am a Mennonite. What denomination are you? I have been baptized and am well liked in the church (I think). I'm afraid if I am not straight (that's much easier to write) I will go to hell. I don't want to be not straight. I don't try to be not straight. I love God and want to go to heaven. If something is wrong with me, I want to get rid of it.

Please help me.

Mark

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I was deeply touched by Mark's letter. I know him well even though we have never met. He is representative of many other preteens and teens around the world who have awakened to something terrifying within—something they don't understand—something that creates enormous confusion and doubt. These kids often recognize very early in life that they are "different" from other boys. They may cry easily, be less athletic, have an artistic temperament and dislike the roughhousing that their friends enjoy. Some of them prefer the company of girls, and they may walk, talk, dress and even "think" effeminately. This, of course, brings rejection and ridicule from the "real boys," who tease them unmercifully and call them "queer," "fag," and "gay." Even when parents are aware of the situation, they typically have no idea how to help. By the time the adolescent hormones kick in during early adolescence, a full-blown gender-identity crisis threatens to overwhelm the teenager. This is what Mark was experiencing when he wrote. And it illustrates why even boys with normal heterosexual tendencies are often terrified that they will somehow "turn gay."1

There is an additional dimension of pain for those who have grown up in a strong Christian home. Their sexual thoughts and feelings produce great waves of guilt accompanied by secret fears of divine retribution. They ask themselves, How could God love someone as vile as me? Mark even felt condemned for jumping up and down in the shower and for feeling the excitement it created. (That titillation by the sight of his own body is a classic symptom of narcissism, or a "turning inward" to fulfill his unmet gender-identification needs.) He either had to figure out how to control this monster within or, in his understanding, face an eternity in hell. There is no greater internal turmoil for a Christian boy or girl than this. At the top of Mark's letter he wrote, "I may sound very bad. I hope I'm not that bad."

Poor kid! Mark is in desperate need of professional help, but he is unlikely to get it. His parents apparently don't know about his travail, and the pastor he trusts tells him it will pass. It probably won't! Mark appears to have a condition we might call "prehomosexuality," and unless he and his entire family are guided by someone who knows how to assist, the probabilities are very great that he will go on to experience a homosexual lifestyle.

What do we know about this disorder? Well first, it is a disorder, despite the denials of the American Psychiatric Association. Great political pressure was exerted on this professional organization by gays and lesbians (some of whom are psychiatrists) to declare homosexuality to be "normal." The debate went on for years. Finally, a decision was made in 1973 to remove this condition from their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). It was made not on the basis of science, but was strongly influenced by a poll of APA members, which was initiated and financed by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. The vote was 5,834 to 3,810.2 The American Psychological Association soon followed suit.3 Today, psychologists or psychiatrists who disagree with this politically correct interpretation, or even those who try to help homosexuals change, are subjected to continual harassment and accusations of malpractice.

The second thing we know is that the disorder is not typically "chosen." Homosexuals deeply resent being told that they selected this same-sex inclination in pursuit of sexual excitement or some other motive. It is unfair, and I don't blame them for being irritated by that assumption. Who among us would knowingly choose a path that would result in alienation from family, rejection by friends, disdain from the heterosexual world, exposure to sexually transmitted diseases such as AIDS and tuberculosis, and even a shorter lifespan?4 No, homosexuality is not "chosen" except in rare circumstances. Instead, bewildered children and adolescents such as Mark find themselves dealing with something they don't even understand.

Third, there is no evidence to indicate that homosexuality is inherited, despite everything you may have heard or read to the contrary. There are no respected geneticists in the world today who claim to have found a so-called "gay gene" or other indicators of genetic transmission. This is not to say that there may not be some kind of biological predisposition or an inherited temperament that makes one vulnerable to environmental influences. But efforts to identify such factors have been inconclusive. Despite this lack of evidence, the gay and lesbian organizations and their friends in the mainstream media continue to tell the public that the issue is settled—that gays are "born that way." Time and Newsweek splashed "promising findings" to that effect on their covers. Time titled their story "Search for the Gay Gene,"5 and Newsweek proclaimed, "Does DNA Make Some Men Gay?"6 Oprah devoted several slanted television programs to the subject, and Barbara Walters said recently, "There is a growing body of opinion that says that people are born homosexual."7 Even though entirely false, this politically motivated information (or disinformation) has done its work. According to a Harris Poll in February 2000, 35 percent of the people polled believed homosexuality was "genetic."8

There is further convincing evidence that it is not. For example, since identical twins share the same chromosomal pattern, or DNA, the genetic contributions are exactly the same within each of the pairs. Therefore, if one twin is "born" homosexual, then the other should inevitably have that characteristic too. That is not the case. When one twin is homosexual, the probability is only 50 percent that the other will have the same condition.9 Something else must be operating.

Furthermore, if homosexuality were specifically inherited, it would tend to be eliminated from the human gene pool because those who have it tend not to reproduce. Any characteristic that is not passed along to the next generation eventually dies with the individual who carries it.

Not only does homosexuality continue to exist in nations around the world, it flourishes in some cultures. If the condition resulted from inherited characteristics, it would be a "constant" across time. Instead, there have been societies through the ages, such as Sodom and Gomorrah and the ancient Greek and Roman empires, where homosexuality reached epidemic proportions. The historical record tells us that those cultures and many others gradually descended into depravity, as the apostle Paul described in Romans 1, resulting in sexual perversion in all its varieties. That ebbing and flowing with the life cycle of cultures is not the way inherited characteristics are expressed in the human family.

Finally, if homosexuality were genetically transmitted, it would be inevitable, immutable, irresistible, and untreatable. Fortunately, it is not. Prevention is effective. Change is possible. Hope is available. And Christ is in the business of healing. Here again, gay and lesbian organizations and the media have convinced the public that being homosexual is as predetermined as one's race and that nothing can be done about it. That is simply not true. There are eight hundred known former gay and lesbian individuals today who have escaped from the homosexual lifestyle and found wholeness in their newfound heterosexuality.

One such individual is my co-worker at Focus on the Family, John Paulk, who has devoted his life to caring for and assisting those who want to change. At one time, he was heavily involved in the gay community, marched in "gay-pride" parades and was a cross-dresser. Ultimately, John found forgiveness and healing in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and he has walked the straight life now since 1987. He is happily married to Anne, a former lesbian, and they have two beautiful children. Despite a momentary setback when he entered and was discovered in a homosexual bar, which delighted his critics, John did not return to his former life. There are hundreds of stories like this that offer encouragement to those who want out of the gay lifestyle but have no idea how to deal with the forces within. I would be less than honest if I didn't admit that homosexuality is not easily overcome and that those who try often struggle mightily. But it would be equally dishonest to say that there is no hope for those who want to change. Credible research indicates otherwise.

Psychologist George Rekers says there is considerable evidence that change of sexual orientation is possible—with or without psychiatric intervention. He wrote, "In a sizable number of cases…the gender-identity disorder resolves fully."10

Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, a psychiatric professor at Columbia University, created a firestorm in May 2001, when he released the results of his research at a meeting of the American Psychiatric Association. Spitzer, who had spearheaded the APA's decision in 1973 to declassify homosexuality as a mental-health disorder, says his findings "show some people can change from gay to straight, and we ought to acknowledge that."11 This was not what his critics wanted to hear. We applaud Dr. Spitzer for having the courage to examine and then expose the myth of inevitability.

With that, let's return to Mark's story to explore what is going on within him and other boys who are experiencing pre-homosexual urges. We also want to consider what causes their sexual identity disorder and what can be done to help. To get at those issues, we will turn to the very best resource for parents and teachers I have found. It is provided in an outstanding but yet-to-be-published manuscript entitled A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality, written by clinical psychologist Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. Dr. Nicolosi is, I believe, the foremost authority on the prevention and treatment of homosexuality today. His book will offer practical advice and a clear-eyed perspective on the antecedents of homosexuality. I wish every parent would eventually read it, especially those who have reason to be concerned about their sons. Its purpose is not to condemn but to educate and encourage moms and dads.

Dr. Nicolosi has permitted me to share some quotes from this manuscript that will answer many questions. These are some of his words:

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There are certain signs of prehomosexuality which are easy to recognize, and the signs come early in the child's life. Most come under the heading of "cross-gender behavior." There are five markers to [diagnose] a child with "gender-identity disorder." They are:

Repeatedly stated desire to be, or insistence that he or she is, the other sex.

In boys, preference for cross-dressing, or simulating female attire. In girls, insistence on wearing only stereotypical masculine clothing.

Strong and persistent preference for cross-sexual roles in make-believe play, or persistent fantasies of being the other sex.

Intense desire to participate in stereotypical games and pastimes of the other sex.

Strong preference for playmates of the other sex.

The onset of most cross-gender behavior occurs during the pre-school years, between the ages of two and four. You needn't worry about occasional cross-dressing. You should become concerned, though, when your little boy continues doing so and, at the same time, begins to acquire some other alarming habits. He may start using his mother's makeup. He may avoid other boys in the neighborhood and their rough-and-tumble activities and prefer being with his sisters instead, who play with dolls and dollhouses. Later he may start speaking in a high-pitched voice. He may affect the exaggerated gestures and even the walk of a girl, or become fascinated with long hair, earrings and scarves.12 In one study of sixty effeminate boys aged four to eleven, 98 percent of them engaged in cross-dressing, and 83 percent said they wished they had been born a girl.13

The fact is, there is a high correlation between feminine behavior in boyhood and adult homosexuality. There are telltale signs of discomfort with . . . boys and deep-seated and disturbing feelings that they [are] different and somehow inferior. And yet parents often miss the warning signs and wait too long to seek help for their children. One reason for this is that they are not being told the truth about their children's gender confusion, and they have no idea what to do about it.

Perhaps you are concerned about your child and his or her "sexual development." Maybe your son or daughter is saying things like, "I must be gay," or "I'm bisexual." You've found same-sex porn in his room or evidence that he has accessed it on the Internet. You've found intimate journal entries about another girl in her diary. The most important message I can offer to you is that there is no such thing as a "gay child" or a "gay teen." [But] left untreated, studies show these boys have a 75 percent chance of becoming homosexual or bisexual.14

It is important to understand, however, that most of my homosexual clients were not explicitly feminine when they were children. More often, they displayed a "nonmasculinity" that set them painfully apart from other boys: unathletic, somewhat passive, unaggressive and uninterested in rough-and-tumble play. A number of them had traits that could be considered gifts: bright, precocious, social and relational and artistically talented. These characteristics had one common tendency: they set them apart from their male peers and contributed to a distortion in the development of their normal gender identity.

Because most of these men hadn't been explicitly feminine boys, their parents had not suspected anything was wrong, so they had made no efforts at seeking therapy. Many clients have told me, "If only—back then when I was a child—someone had understood the doubts, the feeling of not belonging—and tried to help me."

But make no mistake. A boy can be sensitive, kind, social, artistic, gentle—and be heterosexual. He can be an artist, an actor, a dancer, a cook, a musician—and heterosexual. These innate artistic skills are "who he is," part of the wonderful range of human abilities, and there's no reason to discourage them. But they can all be developed within the context of normal heterosexual manhood.

In my opinion (and in the opinion of an increasing number of researchers), the father plays an essential role in a boy's normal development as a man. The truth is, Dad is more important than Mom. Mothers make boys. Fathers make men. In infancy, both boys and girls are emotionally attached to the mother. In psychoanalytic language, Mother is the first love object. She meets all her child's primary needs.15

Girls can continue to grow in their identification with their mothers. On the other hand, a boy has an additional developmental task—to disidentify from his mother and identify with his father. At this point [beginning at about eighteen months], a little boy will not only begin to observe the difference, he must now decide, "Which one am I going to be?" In making this shift in identity, the little boy begins to take his father as a model of masculinity. At this early stage, generally before the age of three, Ralph Greenson observed, the boy decides that he would like to grow up like his father.16 This is a choice. Implicit in that choice is the decision that he would not like to grow up to be like his mother. According to Robert Stoller, "The first order of business in being a man is, 'don't be a woman.'"17

Meanwhile, the boy's father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son's maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger.

Based on my work with adult homosexuals, I try to avoid the necessity of a long and sometimes painful therapy by encouraging parents, particularly fathers, to affirm their sons' maleness. Parental education, in this area and all others, can prevent a lifetime of unhappiness and a sense of alienation. When boys begin to relate to their fathers, and begin to understand what is exciting, fun and energizing about their fathers, they will learn to accept their own masculinity. They will find a sense of freedom—of power—by being different from their mothers, outgrowing them as they move into a man's world. If parents encourage their sons in these ways, they will help them develop masculine identities and be well on their way to growing up straight. In 15 years, I have spoken with hundreds of homosexual men. I have never met one who said he had a loving, respectful relationship with his father.18

Many of these fathers loved their sons and wanted the best for them, but for whatever reason (perhaps there was a mismatch between the father's and son's temperaments), the boy perceived his father as a negative or inadequate role model. Dad was "not who I am" or "not who I want to be." A boy needs to see his father as confident, self-assured and decisive. He also needs him to be supportive, sensitive and caring. Mom needs to back off a bit. What I mean is, don't smother him. Let him do more things for himself. Don't try to be both Mom and Dad for him. If he has questions, tell him to ask Dad. She should defer to her husband anything that will give him a chance to demonstrate that he is interested in his son—that he isn't rejecting him.

But this natural process of gender identification can sometimes go awry. The late Irving Bieber, a prominent researcher, observed that prehomosexual boys are sometimes the victims of their parents' unhappy marital relationship.19 In a scenario where Mom and Dad are battling, one way Dad can "get even" with Mom is by emotionally abandoning their son.

Some fathers find a way to get involved in everything but their sons. They lose themselves in their careers, in travel, in golf, or in any number of activities that become so all-important to them that they have no time for their boys—or for that "one particular son" who is harder to relate to because he does not share Dad's interests. Perhaps the activities this particular son enjoys are more social and less typically masculine.

I've even seen fathers who did not necessarily have other distracting interests but simply remained emotionally removed from the entire family. I saw one father—an immature and inadequate man who emphatically told his wife, before the son was born, that he did not want a boy—completely reject and ignore their son and dote on their daughter. Apparently threatened by the idea of having another "man in the house," this father made his displeasure so clear that, by the age of two, his son was (not surprisingly) wearing dresses and playing with a doll collection.

For a variety of reasons, some mothers also have a tendency to prolong their sons' infancy. A mother's intimacy with her son is primal, complete, exclusive; theirs is a powerful bond which can deepen into what psychiatrist Robert Stoller calls a "blissful symbiosis." But the mother may be inclined to hold onto her son in what becomes an unhealthy mutual dependency, especially if she does not have a satisfying, intimate relationship with the boy's father. She can put too much energy into the boy, using him to fulfill her own needs in a way that is not good for him. In reparative therapy [a psychologist's name for treatment of homosexuals], effeminate boys yearn for what is called "the three A's." They are: their father's affection, attention and approval.

If [a father] wants his son to grow up straight, he has to break the mother-son connection that is proper to infancy but not in the boy's interest after the age of three. In this way, the father has to be a model, demonstrating that it is possible for his son to maintain a loving relationship with this woman, his mom, while maintaining his own independence. In this way, the father is a healthy buffer between mother and son.

Recalling the words of psychologist Robert Stoller, he said, "Masculinity is an achievement.20 [He] meant that growing up straight isn't something that happens. It requires good parenting. It requires societal support. And it takes time. The crucial years are from one and a half to three years old, but the optimal time is before age twelve. Once mothers and fathers recognize the problems their children face, agree to work together to help resolve them, and seek the guidance and expertise of a psychotherapist who believes change is possible, there is great hope.21

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Once again, this short synopsis from Dr. Nicolosi's book offers the most insightful understanding of the subject. The bottom line is that homosexuality is not primarily about sex. It is about everything else, including loneliness, rejection, affirmation, intimacy, identity, relationships, parenting, self-hatred, gender confusion, and a search for belonging. This explains why the homosexual experience is so intense—and why there is such anger expressed against those who are perceived as disrespecting gays and lesbians or making their experience more painful. I suppose if we who are straight had walked in the shoes of those in that "other world," we would be angry too.

There is much more useful information in Nicolosi's manuscript. If you as a parent have an effeminate boy or a masculinized girl, I urge you to get a copy (it will be available this November) and then seek immediate professional help. Be very careful whom you consult, however. Getting the wrong advice at this stage could be most unfortunate, solidifying the tendencies that are developing. Given the direction the mental-health profession has gone, most secular psychiatrists, psychologists, and counselors would, I believe, take the wrong approach—telling your child that he is homosexual and needs to accept that fact. You as parents would then be urged to consider the effeminate behavior to be healthy and normal. That is exactly what you and your son don't need! You do need to accept the child and affirm his worth regardless of the characteristics you observe but also work patiently with a therapist in redirecting those tendencies. When deciding to seek that help, however, you must be aware that for many pre-homosexual boys, the signs may be more subtle, such as an inability to bond with same-sex peers, feeling different and inferior, or a discomfort with one's gender. Sometimes a visit with a professional is needed just to determine whether or not a child is at risk. To find a ministry, support or a counselor who understands and accepts the perspective I have described, you might want to contact one of two outstanding organizations. They are:

Exodus International North America P.O. Box 540119 Orlando, Florida 32854 407-599-6872 407-599-0011 (fax) 888-264-0877 (toll free) Internet: www.exodus.to

National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) 16633 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 1340 Encino, CA 91436 Phone: 818-789-4440 Internet: www.narth.com

It is the mission of these caring people to be of help to people such as you. Another resource is Focus on the Family, which has an outreach called Love Won Out. It offers seminars and information to those seeking help. (This dynamic one-day seminar offers love, hope and compassion to families that have been negatively affected by homosexuality. Dr. Nicolosi is a keynote speaker. Additional speakers include John Paulk and other former homosexuals who are experts in the field of recovery and gender identity. In fact, there are several Love Won Out conferences scheduled to take place in the coming months. Here are the cities and dates:

June 22 in Kansas City, MO September 7 in Pasadena, CA November 2 in Washington, DC February 23, 2003 in Austin, TX April 26, 2003 in Detroit, MI June 21, 2003 in Portland, OR September 20, 2003 in Toronto If you or someone you love is struggling with homosexuality, or if you are dealing with a child whose sexual identity is confused, I urge you to consider attending one of these gatherings. Please call us at (800) A-FAMILY for more information.

I'll close this letter by referring again to Mark and other boys who appear effeminate, gender-confused, or chronically uncomfortable with same-sex peers. Parents, you have no time to lose. Once more, let me urge you to seek professional help for those who appear to be in difficulty, and pray for them every day. Fathers, begin applying the principles outlined by Dr. Nicolosi, and by all means, give your boys what they most urgently need: YOU. Your loving presence is one of the most important factors in their healthy emotional and spiritual development.

Time and space do not permit me to continue this explanation now. As it is, I feel badly about sending you a letter of this length. Perhaps I can return to the topic sometime over the next few months, if there are no other pressing matters to discuss. In the meantime, I extend my best regards to you, and ask you to call or write us here at Focus on the Family if we can be of assistance, or check our Hot Topics resource page on homosexuality. We would love to be of help to you and yours.

Thank you for your continued financial and prayerful support of this ministry.

Sincerely,

James C. Dobson, Ph.D. President

This letter may be reproduced without change and in its entirety for noncommercial and nonpolitical purposes without prior permission from Focus on the Family.

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1 Claudia Kalb, "What Boys Really Want," Newsweek, 10 July 2000, p. 52. 2 Joseph Nicolosi, A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality, Introduction. Used with permission. 3 Norman Podhoretz, "How the Gay-Rights Movement Won," Commentary, November 1996, p. 32. 4 William Bennett, "Clinton, Gays and the Truth," Weekly Standard, 24 July 1997, p. 13. 5 Larry Thompson, "Search for the Gay Gene," Time, 12 June 1995, p. 60. 6 Sharon Begley, "Does DNA Make Some Men Gay?" Newsweek, 26 July 1993, p. 59. 7 "Give Me a Break! Can Homosexuals Change and Become Straight?" "ABC News 20/20," 3 March 2001. 8 August Gribbin, "Public More Accepting of Gays, Survey Finds: Most Believe Orientation Is Genetic," Washington Times, 13 February 2000, p. C6. 9 Matthew Brelis, "The Fading 'Gay Gene,'" Boston Globe, 7 February 1999, p. C1. 10 Nicolosi, A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality. 11 Malcolm Ritter, "Some Gays Can Go Straight, Study Suggests," Associated Press, 9 May 2001. 12 Nicolosi, A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality. 13 Ibid. 14 Ibid. 15 Ibid, chap. 1. 16 Ralph Greenson, "Disidentifying the Mother: It's Special Importance for a Boy," Journal of the American Psychoanalytical Association 56 (1968): p. 293-302. 17 Nicolosi, A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality, chap. 3. 18 Ibid, chap. 1. 19 I. Bieber et al., Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals (New York: Basic Books, 1982.). 20 Ibid. 21 Nicolosi, A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality, chap. 3.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; homosexuality; moralabsolutes; perverts; psychiatry; psychology
"In 15 years, I have spoken with hundreds of homosexual men. I have never met one who said he had a loving, respectful relationship with his father."

Posting this excellent synopsis and fatherly psychiatrist's advise, regarding the causes and cure of homosexuality.

1 posted on 12/10/2006 10:48:27 PM PST by unspun
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To: wagglebee
Ping your list, if you like.
2 posted on 12/10/2006 10:52:52 PM PST by unspun (What do you think? Please think, before you answer.)
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To: unspun

I'll get flamed, and I don't care, but gays don't decide to be gay.


3 posted on 12/10/2006 10:53:51 PM PST by KJC1 (Right when you think you're really good is when you need to pay the most attention)
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To: KJC1
I suggest reading the article thoroughly.
4 posted on 12/10/2006 10:58:09 PM PST by unspun (What do you think? Please think, before you answer.)
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To: unspun

I did.


5 posted on 12/10/2006 11:01:40 PM PST by KJC1 (Right when you think you're really good is when you need to pay the most attention)
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To: KJC1

Whether or not they are born with the attraction, they *choose* to act upon it.

I, for example, am attracted to bikini-clad supermodels. I *choose* not to act upon my innermost desires.


6 posted on 12/10/2006 11:05:42 PM PST by Triggerhippie (Always use a silencer in a crowd. Loud noises offend people.)
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To: KJC1
but gays don't decide to be gay

That maybe true, but it is no reason to go out and celebrate one's gayness, and then shove it down everyone's throat all the time and then demand special privileges. Homosexuality, if congenital, is a medical disorder and should be treated as such. Do people with other forms of ailments march down the streets in grotesque fashion, and demand that their ailment be celebrated and be given special social privileges ? And just because two people have the same disorder , does not mean they should get married. Do we have AIDS patients marrying each other (regardless of sex) just because they have both have aids, or diabetes patients marrying each other because they are both diabetic ?

7 posted on 12/10/2006 11:09:02 PM PST by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
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To: KJC1
Oh, okay. I thought you may have been alleging something about the article, or Dr. Dobson's observations.
8 posted on 12/10/2006 11:09:49 PM PST by unspun (What do you think? Please think, before you answer.)
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To: unspun
This is an interesting theory. I have known a fair number of gay people over the years, and concur with the author that gay people do not just decide to be gay -- something makes them be that way (whether it is genetics or some psychological factor). However, I have to pick at a couple of Dobson's assertions:

For example, since identical twins share the same chromosomal pattern, or DNA, the genetic contributions are exactly the same within each of the pairs. Therefore, if one twin is "born" homosexual, then the other should inevitably have that characteristic too.

This is not correct. Recent research in animal cloning has shown that genes must be *expressed*. Look at identical human twins as adults, and you will see that the vast majority are not truly identical. For instance, they are often of different heights, so their identical genes met with different circumstances in their upbringing and were therefore expressed differently. If you look at the cats that were cloned at A&M, you will see that their markings are quite different. Again, this is a matter of the same gene being expressed in different ways. If there is a genetic component to being gay, it is not beyond reasonable possibility that the same "gay" gene is being expressed in different ways in identical twins. (Also, it is possible that having an occasional homosexual in the population is actually beneficial to society as a whole, in some way that we do not yet understand -- something like the appendix, which has yet to be fully understood.)

Furthermore, if homosexuality were specifically inherited, it would tend to be eliminated from the human gene pool because those who have it tend not to reproduce. Any characteristic that is not passed along to the next generation eventually dies with the individual who carries it.

Again, I believe this statement is in error. Recessive genes can be passed along in the population for quite some time (though I don't know if they can be passed along forever). Also, if the same gene caused both male homosexuality and lesbianism, it could easily be passed along the female line, since frankly, women do not need to feel desire in order to become pregnant, and for most of human history, women have felt a great deal of societal pressure to get married (in order to keep a roof over their head, if nothing else).

I am not convinced that homosexuality is genetic, and I'd like to see more (nonjudgmental) research into Dobson's idea that it is caused by other factors. But I believe his statements about heredity are in error. I will, of course, bow to someone who has more knowledge in this than I do.

9 posted on 12/11/2006 12:36:18 AM PST by Hetty_Fauxvert (Kelo must GO!! ..... http://sonoma-moderate.blogspot.com/)
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To: HarmlessLovableFuzzball

WORTH REPEATING, YOUR RIGHT ON.

That maybe true, but it is no reason to go out and celebrate one's gayness, and then shove it down everyone's throat all the time and then demand special privileges. Homosexuality, if congenital, is a medical disorder and should be treated as such. Do people with other forms of ailments march down the streets in grotesque fashion, and demand that their ailment be celebrated and be given special social privileges ? And just because two people have the same disorder , does not mean they should get married. Do we have AIDS patients marrying each other (regardless of sex) just because they have both have aids, or diabetes patients marrying each other because they are both diabetic ?


10 posted on 12/11/2006 12:39:25 AM PST by garylmoore (Faith is the assurance of things unseen.)
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert

I did research on endocrinology while in college and one of the topics I wrote papers on was the issue of homosexuality and hormones. There appears to be no real evidence that hormones influence behavior in regards to sexuality except to magnify it. Women who take steroids do not start getting lesbian attraction nor do men who undergo surgury for testicular cancer or prostate cancer (and have to be castrated) start eyes men. Many men with high testosterone levels are homosexual but many men with low testosterone levels are also homosexual -- no connections can be found.

Also, in regards to lesbianism and bi-sexuality I ran across studies on women who became strippers or became members of swinging clubs (in the later category the women were all over 30 and had never even fantisized about homosexuality). It is very common for women who become strippers to start having same-sex affairs (some pairing with females for significant time periods and essentually becomming lesbian in sexual matters as well as life patterns) and as for swingers within around 6 months the subjects tend to at least identify as bi-sexual with a substantial number gravitating to preferring female relations (although none in the study left their husbands and became lesbian one must assume it does happen).

The point in the later examples is that when a woman gets involved in these "alternative or fringe" lifestyles I would rather doubt her hormones or genitic makeup changes.


11 posted on 12/11/2006 12:47:54 AM PST by Bushwacker777
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To: KJC1
Perhaps, but they can decide not to be gay.

Some say alcoholism is genetic. I was the worst drunk I have ever met, but I decided drunkeness was a sin and I repented and haven't gotten drunk in 16 years, though I'm still good for about 2 beers a week. Genetic? Phhhht.

12 posted on 12/11/2006 12:59:53 AM PST by Manic_Episode (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps...)
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To: KJC1; unspun

10:48:27
10:53:51
Number of words 5577

"I suggest reading the article thoroughly."
"I did."

Cool! You can read over a thousand words a minute! That's almost twenty words a second! Personally, I skim maybe half of that but I can't get anything out of it that anyone would call "thorough." :(


13 posted on 12/11/2006 1:05:39 AM PST by explodingspleen (http://mish-mash.info/)
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To: unspun
I've been more or less convinced for a while now that the ex-gay movement is a pipe dream, and the recent case of Ted Haggard has re-enforced that conclusion. If the kid's gay, he's pretty much going to be gay no matter what Dr. Dobson has to say about the subject.

At 13, the kid has a good long while before he has to worry too much about what his sexual orientation is. Myself, I suspect that he's just going through a phase. Despite what Dr. Dobson writes, not every shy kid who prefers reading to football is doomed to homosexuality.

14 posted on 12/11/2006 1:32:59 AM PST by Zeroisanumber (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert; All

I too have known a fair number of gay and bisexual people over the years. I would also say that at least in gay bars there are 3 times as many bisexuals as there are purely homosexuals.

When training with a noted psychiatrist in New York, he was asked about his views on homosexuality. First of all I should mention that his methodology involved working in groups of people with people pairing up and holding one another while releasing very intense emotions of pain, fear and anger. First of all he said he was restricting his observations to homosexuals who had come into therapy because they were unhappy with their lives, their sexual orientation or both. He did not claim to speak for gays who were not unhappy with their lives.

He said that most cases involved a situation in which there were intense feelings of pain, fear or anger regarding the opposite sex parent; or feelings of deprivations and longing for the same sex parent. He believed that warmth, love and affection from both parents was essential to normal development including sexuality. He also felt that cases were able to shift their sexuality more or less easily depending on whether the primary trauma was deprivation vs. pain/fear/anger.

I had a man join my group who was upset because he had acted out a few times in mens bathrooms. He was in his 40's, divorced, and had recently met a woman he felt he could be seriously interested in. He was the youngest of 5 children, the rest of whom were girls. I asked him what kind of attention he had from his father. He said his father was so busy and tired, that he got very little attention or affection. I had him work with my husband or another older man in the group. They would hold him as he closed his eyes and said things like "Daddy, love me," "Daddy, pay attention to me," "Daddy, see me too." When saying these things he would often burst into tears and cry for a long time while being held. About 8 sessions later he came to me and said he would no longer be coming to the group. I asked why, and he said he felt he understood his acting out, and was going to move in with the woman. Two years later I ran into him and they were still happily together.

Although faith in God and love of Jesus can help many people, there are others for whom that approach does not work. It is just as possible to help people work on their sexual issues without involving religion. Those who are not comfortable with religion should not be forced to become religious to get the help they need.

Regarding early childhood development, it is also very important that mothers be comfortable with their children's sexuality. If a child senses that their opposite sex parent is bothered about sex, this can influence their feelings negatively. As Dobson's article pointed out, many fathers suffer from certain inadequacies that can impact their sons negatively. If the child is showing gender identity issues, it may be important for the parents to seek guidance and therapy before the child can be helped.

Regarding genetic predispositon, I concur that it is probably unlikely. However, one thing that can happen is that stress on the mother can cause changes in her hormones that can have an influence on the unborn child. In centuries past, the comfortable classes sometimes went out of their way to protect pregnant women (confinement). We would do well the give our pregnant women more support and reduce their stress levels. We might find they give birth to fewer feminized boys, and masculinized girls as a result.


15 posted on 12/11/2006 2:19:44 AM PST by gleeaikin
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To: KJC1

gays don't decide to be gay....

I have known a number of homosexuals, and many of them were born that way. Homosexuality has been with us since the beginning of time, and will be with us til the end of time. To say it's a choice is just cherrypicking facts to suit Dobson's agenda.


16 posted on 12/11/2006 2:52:01 AM PST by tkathy (The choice is clear: White hat people or white flag people.)
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To: unspun
These kids often recognize very early in life that they are "different" from other boys.>>>>>>>>>>>>

Any bets that this boy was raised by a single Mom, or a Mom who is femino Nazi domineering?

The culture of fathers and men we used to have and its relegation to secondary importance is one reason homosexuals can be created out of prepubescent boys.Humans are essentially Tabula Rasa, and the programming of sexual orientation depends a lot on social input.

17 posted on 12/11/2006 3:48:26 AM PST by Candor7 (Into Liberal flatulance goes the best hope of the West, and who wants to be a smart feller?)
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To: KJC1
I am not flaming you, but go back and read Dr. Dobson's article again.

God is the Creator of life, and would never create someone contrary to his Word. Pure and simple, and is not even debatable.
18 posted on 12/11/2006 4:16:34 AM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: unspun
Homosexual-type behavior often starts well before the maturity required to form the intent to be homosexual. There was a boy in my elementary school who behaved like a girl in all essential respects; of course, he was always being made fun of—kids can be merciless—but he never changed his behavior. He didn't choose to act that way...he just was that way. If he had chosen it, the incessant hazing he endured for years would almost certainly have made him un-choose it; he never did, to my knowledge. I don't know what became of him in later life, but I always remember him when somebody says that being homosexual is a choice.

As for the argument that one can be a homosexual but it's a choice to act on it or not to act on it, why ought homosexuals to deny themselves what heterosexuals need not? Those who counsel celibacy for this or that person or type of person are rarely celibate themselves; perhaps they'd best attend to their own lives and families and leave others alone to work out for themselves what's best for them.

But to be clear: I neither condone nor excuse the public behavior of gays when that behavior endangers the public health. The notion that each individual should be free to do whatever he wishes any time he wishes with whomever he wishes, and that this is some kind of constitutional right in America, is nonsense. The common good and health of the public trumps individual behavior when that behavior is reckless and disregardful of the well-being of others.

So ends this morning's rant...

19 posted on 12/11/2006 4:19:22 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: mariabush
Pure and simple, and is not even debatable.

That statement is the primary reason religion should never be invoked when discussing science.

20 posted on 12/11/2006 4:19:30 AM PST by Wormwood (Everybody is lying---but it doesn't matter because nobody is listening)
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To: Zeroisanumber
I don't think that Dr. Dobson ever implied that being a nerd was doomed to a sexual perverts life.

Our son was and is an avid reader and walking dictionary, he five children, and is probably one of the most hetroxsexual adult man that you could find.
21 posted on 12/11/2006 4:22:43 AM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: mariabush

Thanks for distilling it into such a succinct statement.


22 posted on 12/11/2006 4:34:51 AM PST by Rb ver. 2.0
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To: KJC1

Are you gay?


23 posted on 12/11/2006 4:37:25 AM PST by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: unspun

b


24 posted on 12/11/2006 4:37:36 AM PST by MoralSense
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To: tkathy
I have known a number of homosexuals, and many of them were born that way.

Birth defect, mental illness, or a choice... pick one...

25 posted on 12/11/2006 4:40:54 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: KJC1
...but gays don't decide to be gay.

For that matter, what if they do? Don't we need to show some harm before condemning behavior? STDs, yes, but that's promiscuity, not homosexuality.

The old accusation "those who condemn gays are hiding their own gayness" is rubbish but people who obsess about other peoples' sex lives definitely need another hobby.

26 posted on 12/11/2006 4:52:12 AM PST by Grut
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To: Candor7
The culture of fathers and men we used to have and its relegation to secondary importance is one reason homosexuals can be created out of prepubescent boys.

Yes, it is the feminization of men. "It is our wits that make us men" (Malcolm Wallace in Braveheart), not what we do with the appendage at the lower end of the spinal column.

Marijuana is the perfect chemical warfare agent for the feminization of men.

Recreational drug use has been chemical warfare waged against the young people of this country since the 1960s. The sex perverts, like the druggies, can only perpetuate an ever increasing market for their filth by molesting the minds and bodies of the young ones.

27 posted on 12/11/2006 4:52:17 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Bushwacker777

I had observed that many lesbians I knew were physically somewhat masculine - thick waisted, strong featured. These can be symptoms of Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, and there have been studies that lesbians do have a higher prevalance of this disorder, which causes insulin resistance and increased production of androgens.

Whether the androgens cause lesbian feelings, or whether the often cruel rejection by men of this body type causes a retreat to lesbianism, I don't know.

Mrs VS


28 posted on 12/11/2006 5:59:12 AM PST by VeritatisSplendor
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To: unspun
let's think about this with a depth beyond Oprah and BaBa

If all red headed men could not reproduce (as same sex sex does not produce offspring) how many generations would have to pass before there were no red headed men

it's not brain surgery

.

29 posted on 12/11/2006 6:08:26 AM PST by Elle Bee
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To: tkathy

The behavior IS a choice, not the attraction to the same sex. It's an abnormal attraction NOT to be succumbed to but overcome just like any other abnormal attraction.


30 posted on 12/11/2006 6:09:39 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert
But I believe his statements about heredity are in error. I will, of course, bow to someone who has more knowledge in this than I do.

I don't want to claim to have more knowledge than you do. But to the extent that Dr. Dobson is trying to suggest that there is no possibility of genetic influence, I think that is mistaken. He is assuming that gays do not reproduce at all. But gay men do father children; the figure I have seen is that they have 20% as many children as heterosexuals. That's a lot fewer but far from zero.

That said, I think there is too much focus on genes rather than other biological factors. If this were my field of research I would looking at whether something that the fetus is exposed to in the womb might be influencing the developing brain in a way that influences masculinity/femininity and ultimately sexual preference.

31 posted on 12/11/2006 7:01:27 AM PST by freespirited (John McCain: In your heart, you know he's wrong.)
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To: expatguy

LOL, and no.


32 posted on 12/11/2006 7:20:31 AM PST by KJC1 (Right when you think you're really good is when you need to pay the most attention)
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To: KJC1

And gays like to be called fag.


33 posted on 12/11/2006 7:36:48 AM PST by Vaduz (and just think how clean the cities would become again.)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

BUMP!


34 posted on 12/11/2006 6:17:43 PM PST by Candor7 (Into Liberal flatulance goes the best hope of the West, and who wants to be a smart feller?)
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To: freespirited
But gay men do father children;...

They would have to be heterosexual to do that...

That is a biologically driven heterosexual desire.

35 posted on 12/11/2006 6:30:03 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: gleeaikin; Hetty_Fauxvert; freespirited
However, one thing that can happen is that stress on the mother can cause changes in her hormones that can have an influence on the unborn child. In centuries past, the comfortable classes sometimes went out of their way to protect pregnant women (confinement). We would do well the give our pregnant women more support and reduce their stress levels. We might find they give birth to fewer feminized boys, and masculinized girls as a result.

Fetal alcohol syndrome? Smoking pot? LSD? etc., etc....

Marijuana is the perfect chemical warfare agent for the feminization of men.

Recreational drug use has been chemical warfare waged against the young people of this country since the 1960s. The sex perverts, like the druggies, can only perpetuate an ever increasing market for their filth by molesting the minds and bodies of the young ones, including expectant teenage mothers...

36 posted on 12/11/2006 6:40:36 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: unspun

That whole "weak/absent father" rigamarole.

By that logic, the ghettos and projects should be teeming with queens.

It just makes more sense to me that the poor relationship between fathers and homosexual-to-be sons is an effect, not a cause.


37 posted on 12/11/2006 7:36:32 PM PST by JoshGray
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
me: But gay men do father children;...

you: They would have to be heterosexual to do that...

Is former New Jersey governor Jim Greevy a heterosexual?

38 posted on 12/11/2006 8:20:56 PM PST by freespirited (John McCain: In your heart, you know he's wrong.)
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To: VeritatisSplendor

As I pointed out in my Comment # 15, stress in pregnancy can cause hormonal changes that can affect a developing baby toward a more feminine or masculine tendency.


39 posted on 12/11/2006 9:56:27 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: freespirited
Is former New Jersey governor Jim Greevy a heterosexual?

He must have been one to father a child... there is only one way that happens...

If I have to explain the "birds and bees" to a grown man, the conversation is fruitless anyway.

40 posted on 12/12/2006 2:48:49 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

I will put it to you this way. You are the first individual I have encountered who insists that the term heterosexual refers to any male who has been able to have intercourse with a woman on at least one occasion.

Have never observed a professional psychologist to use the term that way nor read a single academic paper that uses the term that way. And I have read a lot of them on this subject.


41 posted on 12/12/2006 6:56:57 AM PST by freespirited (John McCain: In your heart, you know he's wrong.)
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To: freespirited
Have never observed a professional psychologist to use the term that way nor read a single academic paper that uses the term that way.

The act of coitus is a heterosexual function of mammalian organisms... you must be reading some really juvenile material by drooling idiots... or you never bothered to pick up a first year high school biology/anatomy book...

42 posted on 12/12/2006 5:19:13 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: unspun

Regardless of whether one is born gay or not, do we need special rights for gays??? Are people who have sex with animals born that way?? Is every trait a person is born with something to be glorified, or uplifted?? Just the fact that one is born with a particular trait, is that in itself make it normal? Acceptable??


43 posted on 12/12/2006 5:28:09 PM PST by freemike
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To: Elle Bee
If all red headed men could not reproduce (as same sex sex does not produce offspring) how many generations would have to pass before there were no red headed men

How dare you bring actual logic into this discussion!:-)

Seriously, your point is right on. Good post.

44 posted on 12/12/2006 5:39:13 PM PST by Ogie Oglethorpe (2nd Amendment - the reboot button on the U.S. Constitution)
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To: Triggerhippie
I, for example, am attracted to bikini-clad supermodels. I *choose* not to act upon my innermost desires.

I don't think your reluctance to violate restraining orders really constitues a choice. ;)

45 posted on 12/12/2006 6:16:13 PM PST by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: unspun

It's good that Christian leaders finally understand enough about the origins of homosexuality to be able to give out advice that will hopefully be early enough to save this boy from a life of degradation and shame.


46 posted on 12/12/2006 6:20:25 PM PST by WashingtonSource
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To: WashingtonSource
Here is the Apostle Paul's advice on this matter.

If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things have passed away, behold all things have become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17

He goes on in Ephesians 4:23,24 to say this:

"put away the old man which is being corrupted in accordance with the lust of deceit, be renewed in your mind, and put on the new man which is created in righteousness and true holiness."

The old man can be overcome and Paul says we are to put him on. I was a drunk and drug addict for ten years before God woke me up this Scripture. I had to make a choice to give it up and with His help became an overcomer. All sin is the same and can be overcome through Christ.

I can do all things through Christ who stenghthens me."

47 posted on 12/12/2006 6:59:16 PM PST by evangmlw ("God Is Definitely Conservative")
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