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(TWA 800) 'Zoom climb' Scenario Falling Apart
WorldNetDaily ^ | 14 December 2006 | Jack Cashill

Posted on 12/14/2006 9:28:35 AM PST by Hal1950

Slowly but surely, retired United Airline Capt. Ray Lahr and attorney John Clarke are prying open the can of worms known as the TWA Flight 800 investigation, and sooner or later the major media will have to take notice.

WABC in New York already has. Two weeks ago, the station's Jim Hoffer did a short feature headlined "Major court ruling in TWA Flight 800 case." What proved to be most newsworthy about the feature, however, was not the ruling in question but a surprising admission by former NTSB managing director Peter Goelz.

As Hoffer noted, and has been reported here previously, a U.S. district court judge in Los Angeles has granted Lahr access to most of the documents he has requested to get at the truth behind the alleged 3,200-foot "zoom climb" of the damaged aircraft.

In the WABC feature, Hoffer interviewed not only Lahr but also Goelz, who oversaw the investigation. Wittingly or not, Goelz made the stunning comment that "whether [TWA Flight 800] climbed 3,200 feet or not is really irrelevant."

Irrelevant? Really? The FBI and the CIA did not think so. In 1996-1997, the two agencies climbed over the notorious "wall" to collaborate on an animation showing how a crippled 747 could climb rocket-like for 3,200 feet after its nose had been blown off. This animation was critical. The FBI needed such a scenario to silence the media and close the case.

The CIA video could not have been more definitive. "The Eyewitnesses Did Not See a Missile," reads an underlined script on the video screen. No, "What the witnesses saw was a Boeing 747 in various stages of crippled flight." The FBI showed the CIA video at its final press conference in November 1997, thereby ending any serious investigation.

Despite doubts, the NTSB stuck to the story. At the final NTSB hearing in August 2000, Dr. David Mayer, acting chief of the NTSB's Orwellian-titled "Human Performance Division," reaffirmed the zoom climb. "As the airplane maneuvered in crippled flight," said Mayer in an attempt to explain what the eyewitnesses saw, "it appeared to fly nearly straight up." Tellingly, at no NTSB hearing were the eyewitnesses, several of them pilots or military personnel, ever allowed to testify.

Goelz himself knows just how relevant the zoom climb is. His claim that "there is absolutely no evidence that a missile was fired at this aircraft" hinges on the zoom climb. Without it, there is no way to explain the testimony of the 270 FBI eyewitnesses who had seen lights streaking up toward the plane in the seconds before it exploded. Without it, that eyewitness testimony becomes once again all but irrefutable evidence of a missile strike.

Much of that testimony was vivid and specific. One travel industry professional, for instance, told the FBI that she was standing on the beach when she noticed a 747 "level off." With her eye still on TWA Flight 800, she watched in awe as a "red streak" with a "light gray smoke trail" moved up towards the airliner at a 45-degree angle. Then, the "red streak went past the right side and above the aircraft before arcking [sic] back down toward the aircrafts [sic] right wing."

She saw "the front of the aircraft separate from the back" and watched as the burning pieces of the debris fell from the aircraft. She provided a drawing that showed the scenario in some detail, including the "upside down Nike swoosh," which ended at the plane's right wing. By the way, she correctly identified the departure of the plane's nose long before that detail became publicly known. For the record, hers is one of perhaps 100 comparably strong testimonies.

A veteran safety investigator and a serious student of aerodynamics, Ray Lahr thought the zoom climb scenario a canard the moment he saw it. There is scarcely a pilot anywhere who disagrees with Lahr. Buttressed by wide support in the aviation community, he began his nine-year quest to see the evidence used to calculate the zoom climb.

Lahr is making progress. The Los Angeles judge clearly sided with him. He ruled that the case Lahr and Clarke presented was sufficiently strong "to permit plaintiff to proceed based on his claim that the government acted improperly in its investigation of Flight 800 or at least performed in a grossly negligent fashion."

Ten years out, the evidence for a missile strike grows stronger by the week. A Pulitzer awaits the first major media organization to tackle this case in a serious way. Shamefully, none ever has.

Get Jack Cashill's groundbreaking exposé, "First Strike: TWA Flight 800 and the Attack on America"


TOPICS: Unclassified
KEYWORDS: aerospace; blackhelicopters; cuespookymusic; flight800; icecreammandrake; kookmagnetthread; morethorazine; offmymeds; pagingartbell; preciousbodilyfluids; purityofessence; sapandimpurify; tinfoilhatalert; twa800; twaflight800; whatsthefrequency; worldnutdaily
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More spin by Cashill to sell his books about the disaster?
1 posted on 12/14/2006 9:28:37 AM PST by Hal1950
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To: Hal1950
Why was Clinton so terrified of admitting that TWA 800 was a terrorist act?
2 posted on 12/14/2006 9:31:02 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Because then he would have to do something about it.


3 posted on 12/14/2006 9:31:28 AM PST by MarkeyD (The tree of liberty must from time to time be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Four months before his re-election? I don't have that much faith in his honesty or forthrightness, to say the least . . .


4 posted on 12/14/2006 9:33:13 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: MarkeyD
Because then he would have to do something about it.

Good point.

5 posted on 12/14/2006 9:33:25 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: Hal1950
As if the "Zoom Climb" ever had any credibility.<

NTSB/CIA video here.

6 posted on 12/14/2006 9:36:16 AM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Has any terrorist group claimed responsibility? The key to the effectiveness of terror is for the public to know that it was terror. Why would a terrorist group go to this trouble and then keep mum about it?


7 posted on 12/14/2006 9:36:49 AM PST by KevinB
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To: Hal1950
my favorite author.......

On July 17, 1996, TWA Flight 800 exploded off the coast of
Long Island. Five years later, the crash has been
attributed to a mechanical malfunction. But for John Corey
and his wife Kate Mayfield, both members of the elite
Anti-Terrorist Task Force, the case is not closed.

8 posted on 12/14/2006 9:37:15 AM PST by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - New Bloomfield, Missouri)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Clinton was interested in the event being deemed NON-terrorist because the theme for his re-election was peace and prosperity, NOT "let's all have a war...!"

"It's the ECONOMY, stupid...!" --it was a constant refrain of the perpetual campaigner, and everybody got the message.

If you're against the THEME, you're against the PRESIDENT, and that makes YOU the problem.

I hope Cashill never shuts up.

9 posted on 12/14/2006 9:37:44 AM PST by gaijin
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To: Hal1950

This stuff is getting old.


10 posted on 12/14/2006 9:37:56 AM PST by verity (Muhammed is a Dirt Bag)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; MarkeyD

And he'd have to answer to Congress about his inaction leading up to it.


11 posted on 12/14/2006 9:39:02 AM PST by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: Hal1950

What spin, this?

"Goelz made the stunning comment that "whether [TWA Flight 800] climbed 3,200 feet or not is really irrelevant."


12 posted on 12/14/2006 9:39:29 AM PST by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: rface
I am reading it right now. Up to about page 150.
13 posted on 12/14/2006 9:39:34 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: Hal1950

Read later.


14 posted on 12/14/2006 9:39:54 AM PST by marvlus
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To: verity

I don't really believe it, I just like to throw it in the face of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists.


15 posted on 12/14/2006 9:40:12 AM PST by MarkeyD (The tree of liberty must from time to time be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.)
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To: MarkeyD
Because then he would have to do something about it.

Lob some cruise missiles at Afghanistan, problem solved.

The problem is that NONE of the proposed scenarios make sense. Center fuel tank? It would be an absolute first (and, so far, last) time for such an event.

Missile fired by terrorists? Plausible...except that the plane was above the ceiling of a MANPADS. And the eyewitness descriptions do not match actual missiles of what a MANPADS looks like in flight. (Among other things, it would be invisible unless you had vision freakishly better than average.)

Missile fired by the Navy? Plausible...except that a guided missile destroyer or guided missile cruiser has over 300 sailors in the crew, all of whom would know that (a) they shot a missile and (b) TWA 800 went down shortly thereafter. Not one has come forward. Zero. Zip. The big goose egg. Nada. Null. Empty set.

So what happened?

16 posted on 12/14/2006 9:41:32 AM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!)
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To: Hal1950
No.

More coverup - by the MSM lackeys - to AVOID implicating Her Royal Heinous Clinton in ANY terrorist action before they left office.
17 posted on 12/14/2006 9:42:21 AM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
The scale of justice was used to balance the issues.

On one side was Slick's political future. On the other side was the safety of the public.

For that self-centered SOB it was a no brainer. The ineptitude of his coverup is astounding. Bin Laden declared war on the United States and Xlintoon not Lewinsky "Blew It". My only peace of mind comes from the fact that he will burn in hell!

18 posted on 12/14/2006 9:44:01 AM PST by Young Werther
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To: Hal1950

I heard and saw with mine own ears and eyes George Stephanopoulus call TWA800 a terrorist attack on his Sumday morning talk show. He was in the Clinton White House when this happened so his word is definitive. Has he ever lied to any of us?

Kookie Roberts and George Will were both there and they nodded in agreement.

Settles it for me (gag).


19 posted on 12/14/2006 9:44:08 AM PST by spudsmaki
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To: KevinB
Why would a terrorist group go to this trouble and then keep mum about it?

Let's play.

- maybe they DIDN'T keep mum, but Clinton successfully VF'ed them before they could keep crowing

- maybe it was a rogue split from a larger group, who shut them up because the timing was at odds with their larger goals.

- maybe it was a lone nut with a missile launcher

- maybe it was "friendly fire"

- maybe it was just a sparky fuel tank

Do I win anything?
20 posted on 12/14/2006 9:44:31 AM PST by beezdotcom
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To: Hal1950

No, it is an effort to get at the truth. Next: the Iraqi connection to OKC.


21 posted on 12/14/2006 9:45:10 AM PST by doug from upland (Stopping Hillary should be a FreeRepublic Manhattan Project)
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To: Hal1950

Bump with no comment.


22 posted on 12/14/2006 9:48:08 AM PST by Ciexyz (I highly recommend "Apocalypto" - raves, raves, raves.)
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To: KevinB

I totally agree.


23 posted on 12/14/2006 9:48:13 AM PST by Cyman
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To: Hal1950
Without it, there is no way to explain the testimony of the 270 FBI eyewitnesses who had seen lights streaking up toward the plane in the seconds before it exploded. Without it, that eyewitness testimony becomes once again all but irrefutable evidence of a missile strike.

I just find it hard to believe that 270 people were watching an ordinary plane flying in an ordinary manner in an ordinary sky, so intently that they could accurately describe as "eyewitnesses" what happened BEFORE the plane exploded.

Much more likely that they heard the explosion, looked up, saw stuff falling away, and their minds just reconstructed images of stuff flying AT the plane.

24 posted on 12/14/2006 9:48:16 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
So what happened?

Any former Clinton associates on the flight? :)

Missile fired by the Navy? Plausible...except that a guided missile destroyer or guided missile cruiser has over 300 sailors in the crew,

Yeah, that's the biggest strike against that theory. And I'm reminded of the old joke about a sailor who they locked in an empty round room with three large steel ball bearings in the center of it. A half hour later, when they checked on him, he had broken one, lost one, and had the third one in his pocket to take home with him...
25 posted on 12/14/2006 9:49:15 AM PST by beezdotcom
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To: MarkeyD

"Because then he would have to do something about it."

WTC I
Khobar Towers
US Embassy Tanzania
US Embassy Kenya
USS Cole

He didn't do anything about those, what's different about a commercial airline flight shot out of the sky - assuming it was?


26 posted on 12/14/2006 9:50:36 AM PST by Felis_irritable
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To: Hal1950
... and sooner or later the major media will have to take notice.

Hopeless Romantic.

27 posted on 12/14/2006 9:51:43 AM PST by Semi Civil Servant
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To: Hal1950

No terrorist group had thime to, as the shape of the investigation was quick.

There is also video footage and radar images that seem to also indicate a missle strike.

There is a website up, or was that is run by former pilots demanding to expose the truth.

I want the video's and radar images released, I can then make up my own mind.

But 4 months befoer an election, scumbag would do anything or anone to maintain his hold on Monica, the White House.


28 posted on 12/14/2006 9:54:11 AM PST by stockpirate (John Kerry & FBI files ==> http://www.freerepublic.com/~stockpirate/)
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To: beezdotcom
Yeah, that's the biggest strike against that theory. And I'm reminded of the old joke about a sailor who they locked in an empty round room with three large steel ball bearings in the center of it. A half hour later, when they checked on him, he had broken one, lost one, and had the third one in his pocket to take home with him...

LOL!

29 posted on 12/14/2006 9:56:57 AM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!)
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To: Hal1950

A high school classmate of mine was on that plane (Patrick Bell)... I hope they get to the bottom of it. If it was terrorism, it seems to me that we have some unfinished business there as well.


30 posted on 12/14/2006 9:57:09 AM PST by CurlyBill (Democrats: Weak on defense, soft on crime, tough on your wallet)
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To: Felis_irritable

Probably because it was 'our' sky and the fact that people are more intune with an airline disaster and what that can mean to society.


31 posted on 12/14/2006 9:58:52 AM PST by MarkeyD (The tree of liberty must from time to time be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.)
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To: Hal1950

Tin foil hat alert!. TWA 800 was not a terrorist attack.... I coulain how it happened but to the conspiracy theorists it wouldn't matter.


32 posted on 12/14/2006 10:05:21 AM PST by Bones75
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Why was Clinton so terrified of admitting that TWA 800 was a terrorist act?

Because he'd have to pardon more of them when he left office?

33 posted on 12/14/2006 10:06:43 AM PST by b4its2late (Liberalism is a hollow log and a mental disorder.)
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To: Hal1950

Al Qaida MANPADS, Slick Willy covered up to avoid bad PR prior to Olympics, end of discussion.


34 posted on 12/14/2006 10:07:11 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: spudsmaki
I heard and saw with mine own ears and eyes George Stephanopoulus call TWA800 a terrorist attack on his Sumday morning talk show

I saw it too! I got yer back!

35 posted on 12/14/2006 10:12:53 AM PST by RogerWilko
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To: GOP_1900AD
Al Qaida MANPADS, Slick Willy covered up to avoid bad PR prior to Olympics, end of discussion.

Out of envelope fof a MANPADS, end of discussion.

36 posted on 12/14/2006 10:17:33 AM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!)
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To: beezdotcom

Why would a terrorist group go to this trouble and then keep mum about it?

Because they hit the wrong plane. They were targeting an El-Al flight that was on gate hold.


37 posted on 12/14/2006 10:18:23 AM PST by SemperFi82
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

OK, I am ready for the flames.

TWA Flt 800 was hit by a meteorite.

It would also explain the 'streak' seen in the sky.

July *is* the start of meteor showers for the summer.....

Makes as much sense as anythig else.

OK, go ahead, your turn.


38 posted on 12/14/2006 10:18:30 AM PST by ASOC (The phrase "What if" or "If only" are for children.)
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To: rface

Great twist at the very end.


39 posted on 12/14/2006 10:20:56 AM PST by printhead
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To: ASOC

It's plausible--barely. It's possible--barely. It doesn't require IMpossible things like the other scenarios do.

Hmm.


40 posted on 12/14/2006 10:21:05 AM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

And your irrefutible source for the altitude the plane was at at the moment when the first damage occured is?.... or do you assume that the altitude it was last noted at was that altitude?


41 posted on 12/14/2006 10:21:30 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

Shhh, no one wants to hear that. Trust me, I've tried and TRIED.


42 posted on 12/14/2006 10:21:52 AM PST by brothers4thID (Being lectured by Ted Kennedy on ethics is not unlike being lectured on dating protocol by Ted Bundy)
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To: Bones75

Aw, c'mon... can you at least point me to a reference?


43 posted on 12/14/2006 10:22:13 AM PST by dangus (Pope calls Islam violent; Millions of Moslems demonstrate)
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To: Hal1950

44 posted on 12/14/2006 10:22:34 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life)
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To: SemperFi82
Because they hit the wrong plane. They were targeting an El-Al flight that was on gate hold.

Yeah, I had heard that theory. It's interesting, in that if it was a Palestinian group that did it, it provides TWO reasons for a coverup.

1) makes Clinton look bad, anyway
2) makes Clinton's Palestinian peace plan buds look bad (and by extension, his foreign policy)
45 posted on 12/14/2006 10:24:04 AM PST by beezdotcom
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Same reason he did it in Oklahoma. Ignore the threat and just make people happy. Run your term by the polls.


46 posted on 12/14/2006 10:24:33 AM PST by 70th Division (If we loose the Republic we have lost it all.)
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To: ASOC

http://www.icstars.com/Flight800/TWAflt800Long.html

"OK, I am ready for the flames.

TWA Flt 800 was hit by a meteorite."


47 posted on 12/14/2006 10:24:51 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Much more likely that they heard the explosion, looked up, saw stuff falling away, and their minds just reconstructed images of stuff flying AT the plane.

Is that what you would have done?

48 posted on 12/14/2006 10:24:54 AM PST by GLDNGUN
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To: rface

Great book! So was Night Fall.


49 posted on 12/14/2006 10:25:16 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: ASOC

And the government would have a massive coverup to deny it was a meteorite why again?


50 posted on 12/14/2006 10:29:45 AM PST by GLDNGUN
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