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Rick Warren critics over OBAMA told to leave the church...
TownHall ^ | 12.14.2006 | Kevin McCullough

Posted on 12/14/2006 11:48:10 AM PST by jodiluvshoes

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To: jodiluvshoes

Whaaaaaaaaat?!

You've gotta be pulling my leg.


101 posted on 12/14/2006 2:46:43 PM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: micho
I find a lot of Evangelicals are this way.

Hmmmm....do you not at least mean you find a lot of people that way? Heck ANYone can be this way. Whay the emphasis on just "evangelicals?"

102 posted on 12/14/2006 3:07:22 PM PST by ICE-FLYER (God bless and keep the United States of America)
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To: wideawake
FR kicked them out because they were obnoxious, bigoted idiots.

In my years on the bench I have come to realize that those who call others obnoxious, bigoted idiots are usually the ignorant, obnoxious, bigoted idiots.

103 posted on 12/14/2006 3:14:26 PM PST by thiscouldbemoreconfusing
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To: micho
I find a lot of Evangelicals are this way.

What is an "evangelical"?

I'm serious. I constantly read and hear people using that noun, and I am always confused as to what they mean.

104 posted on 12/14/2006 3:36:20 PM PST by Edit35
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To: threeleftsmakearight
So what he (Obama) speaks platitudes about fighting AIDS.

So true.

In fact you CAN'T speak about fighting AIDS without speaking against homo sex.

And I dont believe OsamaObama would ever criticize the Holy Grail lifestyle of his ingrained Democratic party.

105 posted on 12/14/2006 3:40:21 PM PST by Edit35
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To: My2Cents
..condoms are used to bag purchases.

Wow. Must be elephant condoms!

106 posted on 12/14/2006 3:43:18 PM PST by Edit35
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

Excellent. No more need be said.


107 posted on 12/14/2006 3:48:10 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: MojoWire

Evangelicals are Protestants that follow the "evangelical" teachings. Meaning they mainly constraint on "evangelizing" the world for Christ. What I found a lot of them doing was trying to COERCE people into accepting Christ instead of gently leading them.


108 posted on 12/14/2006 4:21:47 PM PST by micho
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To: My2Cents

We have a friend who is a Baptist minister. He wanted to have church services on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day and his deacons nixed it. They told him church services would interfere with families personal plans. Our friend was quite taken aback and asked the deacons whose birthday are we celebrating?
They let him go soon after.


109 posted on 12/14/2006 4:36:40 PM PST by kalee (No burka for me....EVER!)
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To: My2Cents
You Are So Right! Another Scam Artist With A Congregation!
110 posted on 12/14/2006 5:05:21 PM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: My2Cents

I believe Warren's Purpose Drive Life also argues that congregants who don't agree with the introduction of pop music into church services should be thrown out, also. Apparently, he believes churches should be run like McDonalds--find out what the masses want and give it to them.


111 posted on 12/14/2006 5:08:06 PM PST by WestSylvanian
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To: micho

Evangelical's are not always Protestants. Baptist were never part of the Catholic church.


112 posted on 12/14/2006 5:23:24 PM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: ICE-FLYER
Hmmmm....do you not at least mean you find a lot of people that way? Heck ANYone can be this way. Whay the emphasis on just "evangelicals?"

Yes, but the opinions expressed and held by "a lot of" people do not include "condemnation" if you happen to disagree with their point of view.
113 posted on 12/14/2006 5:40:13 PM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: jonrick46

Great link, thanks!


114 posted on 12/14/2006 6:27:44 PM PST by sasha123
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To: My2Cents

Sorry .. when you have disagreements - it's meant to be PRIVATE - BETWEEN YOU AND THE PASTOR - not in a public forum like the media.

I don't blame him. I'd usher them out too. If they're not willing to talk with the Pastor personally and privately - then then need to leave.


115 posted on 12/14/2006 6:32:22 PM PST by CyberAnt (Drive-By Media: Fake news, fake documents, fake polls)
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To: jodiluvshoes

Read the whole article...it does not confirm what the lead article asserts. There is no evidence Rick Warren did what is alleged!


116 posted on 12/14/2006 6:39:00 PM PST by Doctor Don
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To: VOA

I laugh now, but then (well, still now), it's shocking.


117 posted on 12/14/2006 6:46:01 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: MojoWire

I think they're seconds.


118 posted on 12/14/2006 6:46:50 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: kalee

Well, I understand that it cuts both ways. Not to say your friend is a bad pastor -- sounds like quite the opposite -- but when a church congregation keeps a clunker on for a long time, there's something wrong with the elder board, and probably the entire church.


119 posted on 12/14/2006 6:48:31 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: CyberAnt

Of course, it's an assumption that they didn't first go to the leadership.


120 posted on 12/14/2006 6:50:11 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: jodiluvshoes

Jesus Inc.


121 posted on 12/14/2006 6:51:25 PM PST by Hammerhead
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To: jodiluvshoes

At which time they were Purpose Driven to tell him "See Ya"


122 posted on 12/14/2006 6:51:30 PM PST by dforest (Liberals love crisis, create crisis and then dwell on them.)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

As an aside, don't you just love that word, "hubris." It's a great word.


123 posted on 12/14/2006 6:52:53 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: My2Cents

Our friend was only there a few years and he tried to breathe some life into a church that was just coasting aong. We've known him and his family for a long time and he isn't a pushy selfish person. He is probably one of the kindest people I know and he really lives what he preaches. Anyway that church liked their cofortable routine of Sunday morning only and let him go. He is now at another church where they love him and are really glad to have him.


124 posted on 12/14/2006 6:56:04 PM PST by kalee (No burka for me....EVER!)
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To: micho

>A lot of Evangelicals are this way.<

IMHO, not all Evangelicals are on the same level at the same time. It is reasonable to say that one grows with the Lord as time goes on. Sadly, some just don't. We are so fortunate to have been given the Bible.


125 posted on 12/14/2006 7:06:07 PM PST by Paperdoll
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To: ark_girl
"we *should* all be playing on the same team, though. Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, whatever. We all serve the same Master."

Not according to Paul! Paul said, there are some who are disturbing you, and wanting to distort the gospel of Christ. But even though we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached, let him be accursed."

When church doctrine goes astray, whether Baptist, Methodist, Presbytarian, Episcopel, etc -- the doctrine and movement must be rejected as apostate.

126 posted on 12/14/2006 7:08:57 PM PST by evangmlw ("God Is Definitely Conservative")
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To: WestSylvanian


Some pastors seemingly majored in marketing, looking for big bucks. They may use the gospel to line their own pockets. We are to try the spirits (and I don't mean the communion wine).


127 posted on 12/14/2006 7:13:23 PM PST by Paperdoll
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To: kalee

I'm glad to hear it. I hate hearing how some church burn-out the good ones.


128 posted on 12/14/2006 7:17:11 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: jodiluvshoes
It would be interesting if there were a good many folks asked to leave Saddleback if this were true. It would unmask Rick Warren as one that his Purpose Driven Life is about money and politics, not God or Jesus.
129 posted on 12/14/2006 8:06:55 PM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: Rutles4Ever

Saddleback is Baptist.....


130 posted on 12/14/2006 8:09:38 PM PST by Osage Orange (I'm gonna live until I die.....- Jonny Rotten)
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Obama states his religion is: United Church of Christ. (that doesn't make alot of sense - but here is a little about Obama's UCC)

UCC supports abortion and homosexuality.

In fact in April UCC is hosting a 'Called out for Good' conference for ordained ministers and other clergy . There are many other LGBT conferences.

They are Against the Patriot Act


131 posted on 12/14/2006 8:36:52 PM PST by sasha123
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To: My2Cents

The Church Growth pastors are all like this and Warren has been their god for many years.

Many ministers think they will be successful if they are little Stalins because of people like Warren and Schuller.


132 posted on 12/14/2006 9:39:14 PM PST by sine_nomine (Don't let another Bush lose another Iraq war.)
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To: jodiluvshoes

The more I hear about Warren, the less I like him.


133 posted on 12/14/2006 10:00:32 PM PST by Rocky (Air America: Robbing the poor, and still unable to stay in business)
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To: rovenstinez

Warren makes his sermons available to any pastor that wants them...for only $70 a set (I think it was ten sermons per set)!


134 posted on 12/14/2006 10:02:25 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: jodiluvshoes

If this is an unhealthy pattern as it appears to be, then it is very serious, indeed.

If it is trying to keep whiners and mal-contents from causing division, I could understand. But it sure seems like an aversion to important feedback etc. And I deplore such practices as stifling, much more so, removing such crucial feedback.


135 posted on 12/14/2006 10:10:03 PM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: My2Cents

Yes it is .. but having been a member of a church for 20 years, I can tell you those who whine the most in public are most usually those who won't visit the pastor privately, because he might tell them their wrong .. so they go public.

The Bible calls such people "factious" - or somebody who just stirs the pot. If they're so unhappy with the Pastor's actions, then it's just better that they leave.

It's sad, but it's more common than most people know. People believe they are obligated to tell the Pastor what to do .. they're not. If more people would study how a church is supposed to function, they wouldn't get in all this trouble.


136 posted on 12/14/2006 11:20:24 PM PST by CyberAnt (Drive-By Media: Fake news, fake documents, fake polls)
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To: thiscouldbemoreconfusing
In my years on the bench I have come to realize that those who call others obnoxious, bigoted idiots are usually the ignorant, obnoxious, bigoted idiots.

Glad to hear you were such an impartial jurist.

137 posted on 12/15/2006 5:08:36 AM PST by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake

Learned.


138 posted on 12/15/2006 7:40:01 AM PST by thiscouldbemoreconfusing
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To: TonyRo76

The purpose driven life...say wasn't that what Martha the sister of Mary Magdalene was accused of?

"Martha, Martha...you worry over many things...!" Jesus Christ to Martha who complained that Mary wasn't rushing around and helping with the house work!


139 posted on 12/15/2006 8:05:32 AM PST by mdmathis6 (Save the Republic! Mess with the polling firms' heads!)
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To: Quix

Ditto!!


140 posted on 12/15/2006 8:21:17 AM PST by DarthVader (Conservatives aren't always right , but Liberals are almost always wrong.)
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To: evangmlw

Just because a church doesn't agree with you on every detail doesn't make them heretic. There are some basics that are crucial. But, there are other things that are up for interpretation...where it's not clear what exactly the Bible means. Even the early, early churches mentioned in the Bible didn't all agree on everything. Looking at the same set of words. Trying to interpret it literally, there was disagreement.

You find a church where you agree with what they believe for the most part so that you don't get in the way. But, you also realize that we're a part of the church to participate in a larger body of Christ. That body is there to Glorify God. Not one denomination or another. That body is there to teach each other, build each other up, and try to reach out to the community around us. You have the humility to realize that maybe the way you understand some things in the Bible is correct. Maybe there are some places where those other folks are right. We'll all know someday when we get to Heaven, but that day isn't here yet. So, a healthy debate is fine. Tearing each other down is not because it just gets in the way of more important things.

Making blanket statements on a board like this that every large church or every non-denominational church is evil does not glorify God. It may prevent someone from trying visiting a church that could have been a good influence on their lives. It makes Christians look petty to non-Christians. It's a turn-off to non-Christians and it doesn't do anything to further the Kingdom. Frankly, it reinforces why a lot of them resent Christians.

People don't need to coming onto a public forum like this and make blanket statements about and entire size or type of church unless you've visited them all and know what they all (each individual church) teach. Especially when we all KNOW there are non-Christians on here.


141 posted on 12/15/2006 8:23:52 AM PST by ark_girl
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To: CyberAnt

I strongly agree with you. Well said.


142 posted on 12/15/2006 8:25:56 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: wideawake

I see no evidence they were anything but an impartial jurist.

Merely an astute observe of human nature and behavior--as I'd hope a jurist would be.


143 posted on 12/15/2006 8:27:06 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: DarthVader

Thanks.


144 posted on 12/15/2006 8:27:49 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: wideawake
FR kicked them out because they were obnoxious, bigoted idiots.

Not very difficult to fathom.

***********

Not at all.

145 posted on 12/15/2006 8:27:49 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: ark_girl

Sorry for the rant. I went to a church, when I was very little, where people assumed that any church where the people didn't look and act just like then and have the same music they sang were evil because clearly Jesus read the King James Bible and sang "Just as I am" and "Amazing Grace" with one organ and one piano every Sunday and said thou shalt do the same for all time and eternity yourself.

Frankly the best thing for my faith to bring it to life was to get the heck out of that environment.

So, I guess it's sort of a pet peve of mine.


146 posted on 12/15/2006 8:28:45 AM PST by ark_girl
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To: ark_girl

You find a church where you agree with what they believe for the most part so that you don't get in the way. But, you also realize that we're a part of the church to participate in a larger body of Christ. That body is there to Glorify God. Not one denomination or another. That body is there to teach each other, build each other up, and try to reach out to the community around us. You have the humility to realize that maybe the way you understand some things in the Bible is correct. Maybe there are some places where those other folks are right. We'll all know someday when we get to Heaven, but that day isn't here yet. So, a healthy debate is fine. Tearing each other down is not because it just gets in the way of more important things.

Making blanket statements on a board like this that every large church or every non-denominational church is evil does not glorify God. It may prevent someone from trying visiting a church that could have been a good influence on their lives. It makes Christians look petty to non-Christians. It's a turn-off to non-Christians and it doesn't do anything to further the Kingdom. Frankly, it reinforces why a lot of them resent Christians.

People don't need to coming onto a public forum like this and make blanket statements about and entire size or type of church unless you've visited them all and know what they all (each individual church) teach. Especially when we all KNOW there are non-Christians on here.

= = =

Very well and wonderfully put. Thanks.


147 posted on 12/15/2006 8:29:25 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: ark_girl

Your thoughts are exactly why I've hit the back button when ready to post on these threads. Thanks for saying it.


148 posted on 12/15/2006 8:32:22 AM PST by 3dognight
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To: jodiluvshoes

Rick Warren is a stupid creep. First praising Syria's Assad, then Obama, now this.


149 posted on 12/15/2006 8:41:07 AM PST by montag813
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To: ark_girl

Very well said and the Bible does tell us to avoid getting involved in stupid controversies. Paul to Titus Chapter 3.


150 posted on 12/15/2006 8:41:29 AM PST by DarthVader (Conservatives aren't always right , but Liberals are almost always wrong.)
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