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Rick Warren critics over OBAMA told to leave the church...
TownHall ^ | 12.14.2006 | Kevin McCullough

Posted on 12/14/2006 11:48:10 AM PST by jodiluvshoes

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To: wideawake

Upset the agenda and you get bit.


51 posted on 12/14/2006 12:27:53 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: jodiluvshoes
Why is it wrong for Rick Warrens Church to usher out fundamental Christians who have a problem with having a pro-abortion Christ hater speaking at their church, when for years sites like FreeRepublic have banned or kicked out Fundamental preachers and fundamentalist for taking strong stands against religions such as Roman Catholicism?
52 posted on 12/14/2006 12:28:07 PM PST by thiscouldbemoreconfusing
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To: Veto!; Wuli

The Delphi Technique was developed by the Rand Corporation for use by the Department of Defense as a psychological tool to control people. Dissenters are singled out, and dismissed or ridiculed to diminish their credibility. It is simply a psychological technique to "divide and conquer" and is used by churches, businesses, etc.


53 posted on 12/14/2006 12:30:53 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: My2Cents

Yeah, I had a bible study teacher who reacted the same way. Question HER interpretation and you were smacked down as not knowing what you were talking about.

I find a lot of Evangelicals are this way.


54 posted on 12/14/2006 12:33:31 PM PST by micho
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To: My2Cents

The minister at my sister's church was eventually asked to leave after having an affair with church secretary. He got a transfer to Washington State, but the church followed up with a report to the new church and he was asked to leave there, as well.

The new minister isn't any better and is trying to turn the church into one of those new mega churches. So, she left. It's the Church of the Nazarene and they don't even mention the name of Jesus in the sermons, for fear of offending some of the new people.


55 posted on 12/14/2006 12:35:33 PM PST by Eva
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To: rovenstinez

Ear-tickling is what I call it.


56 posted on 12/14/2006 12:38:08 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: micho
Question HER interpretation and you were smacked down as not knowing what you were talking about. I find a lot of Evangelicals are this way.

I find a lot of Catholics are this way.

57 posted on 12/14/2006 12:38:51 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Veto!; TommyDale; Wuli
Delphi technique? What is that?

Tommy, you need to provide a link when you speak about these things, and this is something that we need to discuss on FR...only problem is that the majour religious people who DO talk about it aren't welcome on FR for some reason (now i wonder what that reason might be).

For the rest of you. The Delphi Technique was a tool developed by the Rand Corporation to determine important topics in the Factual domain. Social Scientists have began to use the technique in the affective domain in order to get the majourity of people to accept a Pre-determined outcome. It is an evil tool of manipulation when used in such a manner. This particular site describes how Warren et. al. use the technique to manipulate the congregation.

There is another term that has come into use recently for the same technique, it's founder, Dean Gotcher calls the method Diaprax.

While Diaprax/Delphi is usually found manifested in secular applications, it has fast spread to the churches as a tool of manipulation.

58 posted on 12/14/2006 12:39:18 PM PST by Calvinist_Dark_Lord (I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper)
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To: jodiluvshoes
My Spiritual Journey by Barack Obama. It's worth a read for insight into this man.

In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites. But I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part--no introspective exertion or self-flagellation. Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways--and not necessarily the best way--that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives.

59 posted on 12/14/2006 12:41:23 PM PST by Sender ("Always tell the truth; then you don't have to remember anything." -Mark Twain)
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To: jodiluvshoes

Obama is a dyed-in-the-wool abortion supporter, including the atrocious partial-birth variety.
So what he speaks platitudes about fighting AIDS. What's the difference if he's willing to kill millions in the womb?

And Warren is surprised by the reaction of his congregants?


60 posted on 12/14/2006 12:44:57 PM PST by threeleftsmakearight
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To: rovenstinez
American Mega Church Christianity probably wouldn't be TOO happy if the REAL Jesus showed up on a Sunday morning with a bull whip

My impression exactly. When this is all over and his fifteen minutes of fame expires, Rick Warren might be well advised to look into Christianity instead of whatever it is that he is doing now.

61 posted on 12/14/2006 12:45:38 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: jodiluvshoes
Rick Warren is quickly approaching the descriptive title of a cult leader. For an in depth look at him go to this link:

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/rick_warren_new_age.html
62 posted on 12/14/2006 12:53:53 PM PST by jonrick46
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord; All
Thanks for the knowledgable answer.

There were two points in the text at the link:

"For Delphi to work, it is critical that the targeted group be kept away from knowledgeable people who could lead them away from the Delphier's pre-determined outcome."

And,

"It requires well-trained professionals, known as "facilitators" or "change agents," who deliberately escalate tension among group members, pitting one faction against another to make a preordained viewpoint appear "sensible," while making opposing views appear ridiculous."

It sounds to me like US journalism schools have been educating our journalists on how to be good practictioners of The Delphi Technique.

63 posted on 12/14/2006 12:54:26 PM PST by Wuli
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To: wideawake

In So. Baptist churches, when a person that is a member of one church wishes to "move" their membership, the new church is notified if there has been problems with the former member. This is not a new practice.


64 posted on 12/14/2006 12:58:46 PM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: Rutles4Ever

Or denominational church and cult.


65 posted on 12/14/2006 1:00:43 PM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: Rightly Biased

Should be able to hear the sound of them drums right about now.


66 posted on 12/14/2006 1:04:42 PM PST by twonie (Just because there are fewer of us don't mean we are wrong.)
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To: thiscouldbemoreconfusing

At the risk of losing everything here - AMEN, BROTHER.


67 posted on 12/14/2006 1:06:09 PM PST by twonie (Just because there are fewer of us don't mean we are wrong.)
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To: Wuli

Liberal Democrats have been using this technique for years.


68 posted on 12/14/2006 1:06:20 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: Eva
they don't even mention the name of Jesus in the sermons, for fear of offending some of the new people.

Same with the pastor at our former church. I once plotted the references, and it turned out that he'd actually mention Jesus in some substantive way about once every six weeks. Most of the time, his sermons were about how to be better neighbors, better spouses, better parents, and the like. A whole lot of "obligation" and performance standards dumped on us, without the key to actually performing -- the indwelling Spirit of Christ.

69 posted on 12/14/2006 1:19:07 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: jodiluvshoes
I discussed Obama's meeting with a friend of mine who attends Saddleback. She agreed that Obama's advice, (more condom's are needed in Africa) was worthless without someone to put one on them.
Her argument against Obama's view of abortion was that our government shouldn't be involved in people's lives. I then asked why it's okay for our government to be involved in the sex lives of the people of Africa.
I'm still waiting for her response.
As for Rick Warren, he's no Nathan.
70 posted on 12/14/2006 1:25:55 PM PST by The Brush
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To: thiscouldbemoreconfusing; twonie
FR kicked them out because they were obnoxious, bigoted idiots.

Not very difficult to fathom.

71 posted on 12/14/2006 1:26:48 PM PST by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: mariabush
That reflects pretty poorly on the SBC.
72 posted on 12/14/2006 1:27:45 PM PST by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Red Badger; My2Cents

We had the same experience as My2cents and it wasn't a Baptist church but a Lutheran one. Egos are not denominational distinct.


73 posted on 12/14/2006 1:28:05 PM PST by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: TommyDale
Not quite. Delphi was developed by RAND as a technological forecasting tool; it is (properly) a method of anonymously collecting the opinions of various experts, then allowing them to defend or revise their opinions, in a series of iterations, without personalities interfering in the process. It can, properly, be used to arrive at a consensus OR to identify multiple possible outcomes.

It is abused, as you say, by folks who wish to drive a meeting to a predetermined conclusion.

74 posted on 12/14/2006 1:30:42 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: TXBubba
Egos are not denominational distinct.

Sin is pretty universal.

75 posted on 12/14/2006 1:31:10 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: mariabush
In So. Baptist churches, when a person that is a member of one church wishes to "move" their membership, the new church is notified if there has been problems with the former member. This is not a new practice.

Fascinating. I was a So.Baptist church secretary at one time. Never even heard of this. But then again, I don't remember having any "problems" move. That could be why.

76 posted on 12/14/2006 1:31:10 PM PST by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: My2Cents

Yes it is.


77 posted on 12/14/2006 1:32:51 PM PST by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: The Brush

I'm reading a book which mentione that in street markets in Africa, condoms are used to bag purchases.


78 posted on 12/14/2006 1:33:11 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: TXBubba
I'm just saying that if there was a problem with a member, it is usually commented on when a request for their letter is granted.

Common but rare practice.
79 posted on 12/14/2006 1:34:16 PM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: My2Cents

I certainly don't attend church nearly as often as I should, but I DO believe in the power of prayer! I've seen it work SO MANY times!

That pastor was an idiot! I hear so many stories like the ones here. Sad.


80 posted on 12/14/2006 1:34:41 PM PST by Muzzle_em (A proud warrior of the Pajamahadeen)
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To: micho
I find a lot of Evangelicals are this way.

It's one reason I no longer apply the "evangelical" label to myself. It used to be that "evangelical" meant belief in the authority and reliability of the Bible, mission and evangelistic outreach, a focus on Christ.

81 posted on 12/14/2006 1:36:10 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: wideawake

No it doesn't. It is the church's responsibility to inform the church requesting the person's letter if there has been a serious problem.

Not a fan of Rick Warren, do not agree with his tactics.


82 posted on 12/14/2006 1:37:56 PM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: mariabush

Whereas on the flip side most churches don't tell search committees about Ego pastor because they want him gone so bad. Lived through that a couple of times as a kid also.


83 posted on 12/14/2006 1:37:57 PM PST by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: Muzzle_em

It is sad, but it encourages me to read threads like this and find individual believers who are strong in their faith, beliefs, and practice, in spite of the abysmal condition of some of their churches.


84 posted on 12/14/2006 1:38:00 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: ArrogantBustard

You are probably correct. I have only seen it in the abusive format as a control on a group. I first witnessed it at Hewlett Packard as a management tool, then at another company owned and operated by Scientologists. It was an eerie similarity, and then I did some research and put the two together. It goes by various names, but the methods are the same. Many times there are disastrous results, such as a high turnover in management, sales staffs, church congretations, etc. who won't put up with such control tactics. Unfortunately, it is most often the weaker people in the church congregation that are found to be under such control.


85 posted on 12/14/2006 1:38:44 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: My2Cents

You faith cannot be in the church/people. Although you should keep worshipping in a body of believers you can't base your faith on them.


86 posted on 12/14/2006 1:39:29 PM PST by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: TXBubba

LOL, but true.

The whole country knows about our pastor. If it was up to me he would be gone, but it is not!


87 posted on 12/14/2006 1:40:27 PM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: TXBubba

Absolutely. People will disappoint every time. And yet in every mega-church I'm familiar with, the church is built not so much on Christ, but on the personality and charisma of the pastor.


88 posted on 12/14/2006 1:45:48 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: TXBubba
churches don't tell search committees about Ego pastor because they want him gone so bad

I found this true of the Conservative Baptist Association. The regional rep's main job was to push lemons -- pastors who had gone bust -- onto unsuspecting churches. I've always felt that, where possible, churches should promote from within. We had a college pastor at our former church -- great guy -- who candidated for the senior pastor position when a vacancy arose. But he was turned down by a majority of the congregation, because they viewed him as "the college pastor." So, rather than get a senior pastor that everyone knew, someone who had proven his faithfulness and effectivness in ministry as an associate, the church ended up with the works-oriented, prayer-hating clunker I've been referring to in this thread.

89 posted on 12/14/2006 1:51:43 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: swmobuffalo

"And leave they should, the type of apostate gospel that is promoted in that church is dangerous and a sign of the times."

Yes - he's doing them a favor. They'll know it one day.


90 posted on 12/14/2006 2:02:11 PM PST by RoadTest (Both manifestations of The Word Of God are alive and powerful.)
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To: TommyDale

Oh I'm so shocked. Whouda thought?

Seriously that man has been letting his true self shine through lately. Even the willingly blind should be able to see it by now.


91 posted on 12/14/2006 2:03:13 PM PST by Sue Perkick (Just a water spider on the pond of life.)
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To: MikeA

"Resisters" got directions to the door long before this.


92 posted on 12/14/2006 2:05:55 PM PST by Sue Perkick (Just a water spider on the pond of life.)
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To: Sue Perkick

What an amazing turn of events in the last few weeks, huh?


93 posted on 12/14/2006 2:06:11 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: RinaseaofDs; My2Cents

We are in the Laodecean stage of the church: luke warm and thinking it's rich but is a spiritual pauper.


94 posted on 12/14/2006 2:08:57 PM PST by RoadTest (Both manifestations of The Word Of God are alive and powerful.)
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To: jodiluvshoes

Saddleback Church? Sounds more like Bare Back Church.


95 posted on 12/14/2006 2:09:16 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Karl Rove isn't magnificent.)
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To: wideawake

"FR kicked them out because they were obnoxious, bigoted idiots.
Not very difficult to fathom."

I think I like the Delphi method better than yours.


96 posted on 12/14/2006 2:09:58 PM PST by RoadTest (Both manifestations of The Word Of God are alive and powerful.)
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To: My2Cents
It's one reason I no longer apply the "evangelical" label to myself. It used to be that "evangelical" meant belief in the authority and reliability of the Bible, mission and evangelistic outreach, a focus on Christ.

Ditto here.

97 posted on 12/14/2006 2:13:55 PM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: My2Cents
The pastor hated it, and told me he considered a prayer meeting
a waste of time.


It's probably little consolation to you...
but I laughed at bit at the thought of a pastor muttering to
himself "a prayerful, committed group of elders...that's
the last thing I need at MY church!".
98 posted on 12/14/2006 2:31:08 PM PST by VOA
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To: jodiluvshoes
If the reports are true, it may be that Rick Warren's most impactful innovation
will be:
The Purpose-Driven Purge (of church members with divergent opinions)
99 posted on 12/14/2006 2:34:19 PM PST by VOA
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To: VOA

The members will be better off for it. Then maybe they can get into a church. Study the Word of God & hear the gospel of Jesus Christ actually preached.


100 posted on 12/14/2006 2:41:47 PM PST by Sue Perkick (Just a water spider on the pond of life.)
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