Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

EUROPEAN SEX SURVEY - Teens from Germany, Iceland Ditch Virginity Early
DER SPIEGEL ^ | December 14, 2006 | dgs/ap

Posted on 12/15/2006 6:32:58 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge

German kids like their sex. A survey of European teen sex habits has found that only pubescents from Iceland are quicker to jump in the sack. But when it comes to safety, the Dutch are tops.

The casual observer in Germany might be forgiven for thinking the Germans are oversexed. Pornographic cinemas and blush-inducing sex shops are a familiar part of the urban landscape, while exposed breasts are a common sight on advertising billboards and magazine covers.

With all that stimulating material around, it's not surprising that young Germans apparently have sex on the brain. A newly-released World Health Organization (WHO) report on sexual habits among teenagers in 26 European countries reveals that German teens are quick off the mark when it comes to losing their cherry; the average age at which Germans -- both boys and girls -- first have sex is 16.2.

...

(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: culturewar; eu; eurabia; europe; germany; iceland; ifitfeelsgooddoit; moralabsolutes; sex; sexpositiveagenda; sexualizingchildren; teens; virginity
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 251-284 next last
Sexual behaviour and values are indeed a interesting cultural difference between America and Europe. Conservative Europeans like me (I am married and father of 3 kids) are usually amazed about the amount of emotions that conservative Americans invest into the issue. I.e. I do not like homesexuals either but I do not care about their way of living as long as they do not affect my own sphere. Although I also do not want my kids to have sex with 14, the efforts in America in challenging teenagers and college students to make a commitment to sexual abstinence (purity pledge, Chastity rings, the so called "second chance pledge" etc.) until marriage are rather funny to me. I would have never ever signed such a notice of intention as a teen, since my classmates probably would have seen me as the most strange and crazy lunatic you can think of. Furthermore I do not want my kids to sign such stuff since I do not understand why the public is interested into such really private decisions. Not the sex between young people is a scandal for me but the voyeuristic lust in public confessions that some people obviously must have. I (and many other Europeans) have the impression that the social pressue that is carried out in this field by some groups is just another form of sick perversion.

Do not get me wrong. I don't want to provoke anybody here, but I feel the widening gap between European and American values and behaviour. Anyway this issue could make a interesting discussion.

1 posted on 12/15/2006 6:33:04 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
Do not forget who we are. The descendants of the people who left Europe. You are the descendants of the people who stayed........
2 posted on 12/15/2006 6:37:00 AM PST by Red Badger (New! HeadOn Hemorrhoid Medication for Liberals!.........Apply directly to forehead.........)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lizol; Michael81Dus; sergey1973; twinself; Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit; Grzegorz 246; goldstategop; ...

Western Europe Ping!


3 posted on 12/15/2006 6:37:35 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger
Do not forget who we are. The descendants of the people who left Europe. You are the descendants of the people who stayed........

Hehe! I carry the burden to be a European each day that God gives.

4 posted on 12/15/2006 6:39:30 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger
"Do not forget who we are. The descendants of the people who left Europe. You are the descendants of the people who stayed........"

LOL!

That pretty well sums it up.

Even though it's still early, can we give you the award for
Pithy Comment of the Day!

5 posted on 12/15/2006 6:41:29 AM PST by Redbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

"Furthermore I do not want my kids to sign such stuff since I do not understand why the public is interested into such really private decisions."

Why are europeans so intolerant of people who choose not to be ruled by their hormones? Sex is an important part of life but there is more to life. A little mystery adds to the spice rather than the reverse.

"I (and many other Europeans) have the impression that the social pressue that is carried out in this field by some groups is just another form of sick perversion."

Encouraging behavior that lessens the chances of unplanned pregnancy, disease, and emotional stress is a "sick perversion"? Promiscuity is not a positive thing.


6 posted on 12/15/2006 6:41:44 AM PST by driftdiver
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

You are not European.......There is no such country.......


7 posted on 12/15/2006 6:41:55 AM PST by Red Badger (New! HeadOn Hemorrhoid Medication for Liberals!.........Apply directly to forehead.........)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

My ancestors are from Norwegia!


8 posted on 12/15/2006 6:43:23 AM PST by Fierce Allegiance (SAY NO TO RUDY!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
A survey of European teen sex habits has found that only pubescents from Iceland are quicker to jump in the sack. But when it comes to safety, the Dutch are tops.

It is indeed slightly safer to be a top.

9 posted on 12/15/2006 6:43:36 AM PST by Caesar Soze
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
Promiscuity is not a positive thing.

I never said that. But the issue is something to be shared inside the family and not in the public.

10 posted on 12/15/2006 6:44:06 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

Strike "homosexuals" and insert "child molesters" or "arab terrorists" or even "burglars" in your comment "...I do not care about their way of living as long as they do not affect my own sphere."

Here's the deal: you either make moral choices and judgments in your own life, or you don't.

Europeans have long demonstrated that they don't:
I don't think the unimpeded rise of Nazism and the accompanying anti-Semitism was just some anomalous case.


11 posted on 12/15/2006 6:46:08 AM PST by Redbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger
You are not European.......There is no such country.......

It must be really interesting to find out that Europe exists. Somehow a reversed Colombus dejà vu. Congratulations to this experience!

12 posted on 12/15/2006 6:46:29 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger
Do not forget who we are. The descendants of the people who left Europe. You are the descendants of the people who stayed........

The best of Europe, as I like to say, found itself in one of three places..

  1. The Somme
  2. Auschwitz
  3. Ellis Island
Thankfully our forefathers chose option 3.
13 posted on 12/15/2006 6:47:07 AM PST by JAWs (Ytringsfrihed er ytringsfrihed er ytringsfrihed. Der er intet men.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Caesar Soze

KINKY!


14 posted on 12/15/2006 6:47:58 AM PST by JAWs (Ytringsfrihed er ytringsfrihed er ytringsfrihed. Der er intet men.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
"In America, sex is an obsession. In the rest of the world it's a fact"
Marlene Dietrich
15 posted on 12/15/2006 6:48:30 AM PST by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, ATF and DEA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

From a health standpoint-morals aside-having multiple sexual partners causes all sorts of disease. What has the sexual revolution given us-teenage pregnancy, herpes and of course aids-not to mention elevated levels of cervical cancer because of a sexually transmitted virus.

Of course there is an emotional side to sex. A 15 year old boy I know just tried to kill himself because of a relationship gone bad. Underage kids are certainly neither emotionally nor physically ready for sexual intimacy. No one of any age benefits from unbridled promiscuity.


16 posted on 12/15/2006 6:48:34 AM PST by nyconse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

Personally, I don't find anything wrong with "European values" as long as they stay in Europe. I think diversity among different countries/continents is a good thing, but want America to stay the way it has been (conservative). Won't be any fun if we are all the same!

Have a friend from Eastern Europe who always says America should emulate Europe and the security blanket most European countries provide its citizens (healthcare, job guarantees, etc). I know I am generalizing. My point to her was that America chooses overall greater riches and higher risk over safety and security combined with less riches.

Neither is right, neither is wrong; let's keep our cultures and societies the way they are, otherwise we lose our very identities.


17 posted on 12/15/2006 6:49:28 AM PST by wacko rightwinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

"I never said that. But the issue is something to be shared inside the family and not in the public."

I'm not affiliated with any of those groups but from what I have heard there are two reasons they make it public. One is to reduce the peer pressure on those who choose not to have sex. There is tremendous pressure on kids in the US to have sex in order to 'fit in' and 'be cool'. The second is that people are much more likely to meet a commitment they have publically stated vs one they made to themselves.


18 posted on 12/15/2006 6:49:59 AM PST by driftdiver
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
"Promiscuity is not a positive thing."
I never said that. But the issue is something to be shared inside the family and not in the public.

Teen promiscuity is not a "family issue" to be shared...it IS a problem that more and more parents here in the USA are willing to stop before it begins. If Euro parents (or shall I say "genetic material donors?") are NOT willing to exercise their parental authority and responsibilty, then it's not surprising to see Europe slowly dying and turning into Eurabia.

Your choice, though. Just don't complain when your kids come home with unwanted pregnancies or STDs.

19 posted on 12/15/2006 6:50:31 AM PST by JRios1968 (Tagline wanted...inquire within)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

I agree with you that Americans can seem to be a bit hypocritical about sex and sexuality---we're interested in it, of course, but we seem to be a bit ashamed of our interest in it at the same time---at least that's the public appearance of things. Europeans seem to think sex and sexuality is something to be celebrated and discussed openly, while Americans seem to think it's something best kept private.


20 posted on 12/15/2006 6:50:32 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

It's OK. When the Muslims take over they will put sexual relations at the top of your agenda. I think Europe has far more to be worried about than sexual promiscuity.


21 posted on 12/15/2006 6:50:37 AM PST by saganite (Billions and billions and billions-------and that's just the NASA budget!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
Conservative Europeans like me (I am married and father of 3 kids) are usually amazed about the amount of emotions that conservative Americans invest into the issue. I.e. I do not like homesexuals either but I do not care about their way of living as long as they do not affect my own sphere. Although I also do not want my kids to have sex with 14, the efforts in America in challenging teenagers and college students to make a commitment to sexual abstinence (purity pledge, Chastity rings, the so called "second chance pledge" etc.) until marriage are rather funny to me

You sound more like a liberal to me. No wonder Germany is such a mess when all sexual morality has all but been abandoned.

Legalized prostitution has lead to rampant sex trafficking and the spread of STDs in your nation. Is acceptance of consensual pedophilia next? Bestiality?

22 posted on 12/15/2006 6:51:25 AM PST by Ol' Sparky
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Redbob
Here's the deal: you either make moral choices and judgments in your own life, or you don't.

Oh we do make our moral choices. I simply see no sense to force my kids into a public soul striptease for the emotional auto erotic of some "concerned" groups. That is a issue the family and not the church, society or whatever.

23 posted on 12/15/2006 6:51:59 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
Gap indeed, and one I pray remains!! For one thing (only one of MANY) showing pubescent kids sexual images, is a sure way to keep their already preoccupied minds away from all the skills and knowledge they should be absorbing. Is it any wonder kids are getting supposed ADHA at alarming rates? Not to mention STD's running rampant.
24 posted on 12/15/2006 6:52:26 AM PST by gidget7 (Political Correctness is Marxism with a nose job)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
Gap indeed, and one I pray remains!! For one thing (only one of MANY) showing pubescent kids sexual images, is a sure way to keep their already preoccupied minds away from all the skills and knowledge they should be absorbing. Is it any wonder kids are getting supposed ADHA at alarming rates? Not to mention STD's running rampant.
25 posted on 12/15/2006 6:52:27 AM PST by gidget7 (Political Correctness is Marxism with a nose job)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

"But the issue is something to be shared inside the family and not in the public."

Agreed, which is why we don't want ads of half-naked 14 year olds groping each-other hanging outside our mall at Abercrombie & Fitch. I also don't want my daughter to see teens feeling each other up at the local Dairy Queen. I definitely don't want her being taught sex-ed the way it was taught at my school ("you will know when the time is right", "pretend the banana is your penis").

Again, not saying your point-of-view is wrong, but let America be America.


26 posted on 12/15/2006 6:53:29 AM PST by wacko rightwinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
It must be really interesting to find out that Europe exists.

Europe is NOT a country, even though you folks have been trying hard to make it so. The EU is a collection of separate national entities that is slowly (or not so slowly) being dominated by the countries at the bottom of the morality barrel (France, Netherlands, Germany.)

It is refreshing to see the Brits resist, but even there, the morality is slipping, and the Muslims are taking over.

27 posted on 12/15/2006 6:53:29 AM PST by JRios1968 (Tagline wanted...inquire within)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

What's the age of consent in Germany, anyway? In the states, many of these kids would be considered rape victims.


28 posted on 12/15/2006 6:55:25 AM PST by Antoninus ( Rudy McRomney as the GOP nominee = President Hillary. Why else do you think the media loves them?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
The legal age of consent for sex in Iceland is 14. No wonder the teens thare are doing it early - it's LEGAL!

I'm frankly surprised the Icelandic tourism industry hasn't capitalized on this.

29 posted on 12/15/2006 6:55:50 AM PST by CholeraJoe (Spork weasels ain't afraid of nuthin' but running out of sardines.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
The sex positive agenda (google it) seeks to see all moral judgements over sexual pairings end, regardless of sex, age, number, relation, marital status, or species of partner(s).

It also opposes abstinence not because "it doesn't work" but because they feel it is an unhealthy suppression of sexual desires (same stance they take on efforts to encourage people not to act on homosexual desires).

The proponents see sexuality as a birthright and want to see everyone sexually active at every age with no concepts of "age appropriate" activity and this is an institutionalized agenda.
30 posted on 12/15/2006 6:56:01 AM PST by weegee (Remember "Remember the Maine"? Well in the current war "Remember the Baby Milk Factory")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

bump


31 posted on 12/15/2006 6:56:37 AM PST by Centurion2000 (If the Romans had nukes, Carthage would still be glowing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

Also, it's ironic that Germany is so sex saturated, but the fertility rate is WAY down. That sounds like a nation that has embraced the Culture of Death--as defined by our magnificent German Pope, Benedict XVI.


32 posted on 12/15/2006 6:57:12 AM PST by Antoninus ( Rudy McRomney as the GOP nominee = President Hillary. Why else do you think the media loves them?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
What's the age of consent in Germany, anyway?

As far as I know - 14.

33 posted on 12/15/2006 6:57:19 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: JAWs; Red Badger

Honestly, have you ever thought of the idea that some of your forefathers did not leave their homes based on a free decision? Can you imagine that Europe was more developed than America even in the early last century, and that living in New York was almost as bad as living in New Delhi or Bombay is today? No, America got its advantage through Europe´s bad luck of having had two world wars on its soil. No wonder the best skilled people of Europe chose to escape from this place. Don´t be proud of your forefathers decisions, you cannot be proud of that! You can just be proud for what you´ve accomplished and achieved in your lives. What are you going to say to people who had not the luck to live in such nice countries we live in? That they cannot be proud of their lives? Your thoughts seem strange to me.


34 posted on 12/15/2006 7:00:08 AM PST by Michael81Dus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: Atlantic Bridge

Thank you for participating in what I believe is a largely American web cite. I welcome your views.
What people do in the privacy of their own homes does affect the public sphere because people participate in both areas (private and public life). If you decide to experiment with bisexuality, for example, in the privacy of your own home because your school has taught you that this is all right, this may affect your vote on, say, gay marriage years later. If two lesbians have children, they may easily demand that school children be taught that it's entirely acceptable to deny a boy a father. There is no such a thing as an education which is "values neutral". The public sphere is a continuation of the private sphere and the private sphere reflects the public sphere. This is one of the points mentioned in the article.


36 posted on 12/15/2006 7:00:54 AM PST by beejaa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

Europeans may be off the mark quicker when it comes to sex, but their declining aging populations do not bode well for their societies. The young must bear the cost burden of overly generous social welfare systems. The need to import foreign labor is sowing the seeds of present and future discord. Unemployment rates hover around 10% for many countries. Europe is dying, but the sex is great.


37 posted on 12/15/2006 7:00:54 AM PST by kabar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge; antonius

14, but only if the parents agree that the teenager has a relationship with the partner. With the age of 16, teenagers may consent to sexual activities without the parental approval.


38 posted on 12/15/2006 7:01:49 AM PST by Michael81Dus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
With all that stimulating material around, it's not surprising that young Germans apparently have sex on the brain.

That is an incorrect way to portray it. Both the kids having sex and the public displays come from the same root cause -- that sex and/or the human body isn't seen as dirty or sinful in Germany.

39 posted on 12/15/2006 7:02:01 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus

In the states, even 4-years old kids are punished for sexual molestion.


40 posted on 12/15/2006 7:03:32 AM PST by Michael81Dus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

Another case for the moderators...


41 posted on 12/15/2006 7:04:06 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: JRios1968
...it's not surprising to see Europe slowly dying and turning into Eurabia.

Let's say that one lives in Germany or France, and decides to have a family, but at the same time one is aware of the ever-increasing proportion on Islamists in the population. What better way is there to inocculate your children (girls) against the very big possibility that they will be raped by an Islamist or group of Islamists, than to encourage early and frequent sexuality? I contend that it is more a defense mechanism than evidence of enlightenment or intellectual superiority. They certainly don't have many guns.

42 posted on 12/15/2006 7:04:43 AM PST by webheart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: Antoninus

The age of consent in most states of the USA is 16 (in some, it's lower.)


44 posted on 12/15/2006 7:04:59 AM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( ISLAMA DELENDA EST!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge
Furthermore I do not want my kids to sign such stuff since I do not understand why the public is interested into such really private decisions.

Here in America (California, at least) the courts have ruled that parents do not have a right to limit such indoctrination or query. The US Supreme Court refused their appeal.

Complete control over what is taught (11-28-05)

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco recently issued a wake-up call to parents in the case of Fields v. Palmdale School District. Judge Stephen Reinhardt, writing for the court, ruled that though parents have a fundamental right to decide whether to send their child to a public school, they do not have a general right to direct how the school teaches their child. The case before the court that led to this ruling centered on a survey that asked several public schoolchildren invasive questions about sex. The parents argued that the school should not have allowed their children to be asked these questions. The parents, however, had given their consent by signing a form that included the following statement provided by the school district: "I understand answering questions may make my child feel uncomfortable. If this occurs, then ... the research study coordinator, will assist us in locating a therapist for further psychological help if necessary."

45 posted on 12/15/2006 7:05:32 AM PST by weegee (Remember "Remember the Maine"? Well in the current war "Remember the Baby Milk Factory")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge; Michael81Dus

I gather by your profile that you are German. So am I, along with English, Scottish, Irish, and Filipino (only in America, can this happen?). But I am an American first and foremost. I have been to Germany a couple of times, working under contract to your Government. People say nationalism is bad. I don't. It is only bad if taken to extremes across national boundaries...............


46 posted on 12/15/2006 7:06:59 AM PST by Red Badger (New! HeadOn Hemorrhoid Medication for Liberals!.........Apply directly to forehead.........)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atlantic Bridge

Thanks - I appreciate your comments. Others, not so much. :)


47 posted on 12/15/2006 7:07:34 AM PST by July 4th (A vacant lot cancelled out my vote for Bush.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Fierce Allegiance

Norwegia?.........That explains a lot of things about you.......;^)


48 posted on 12/15/2006 7:09:14 AM PST by Red Badger (New! HeadOn Hemorrhoid Medication for Liberals!.........Apply directly to forehead.........)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY
18 in some, 17 in others. 16 is at the low end (DC but not Florida, which is why the media made a stink over the Foley case). Hawaii is the lowest at 14.

When homosexuality was made a national right, age of consent laws were normed to permit minors to engage in this act if the age of consent presented a double standard for heterosexual vs. homosexual activity. So for all those who claimed it was "about consenting ADULTS in private" that was just a soft sell. Additionally some pending cases of adult-minor pairings were dropped as "Romeo & Juliet" er "Romeo & Romeo" exceptions to age of consent laws were cited.

Defining deviancy downward.
49 posted on 12/15/2006 7:09:23 AM PST by weegee (Remember "Remember the Maine"? Well in the current war "Remember the Baby Milk Factory")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: kabar
Europe is dying, but the sex is great.

BuHuHaHa! P.S.

You Americans should be careful because your own birth rate is also in decline since many years. Maybe you live 25 years longer but then...


http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aabirthrate.htm

Welcome in the Club!

;-)

50 posted on 12/15/2006 7:09:58 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 251-284 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson