Posted on 12/15/2006 7:13:58 PM PST by Heartofsong83
T.O. judge orders Christmas tree out of lobby Updated Thu. Dec. 14 2006 5:31 PM ET
toronto.ctv.ca
A Toronto judge has ordered a Christmas tree out of a downtown provincial courthouse lobby, saying it's not an appropriate symbol to non-Christians.
The move by Justice Marion Cohen has upset staff, some of whom call the decision stupid and insulting.
Cohen says she understands the small tree has stood in the lobby at 311 Jarvis St. for years during the Christmas season, but in a letter to employees says non-Christians are "confronted" with the artificial decoration, which makes them feel "they are not part of this institution.''
The judge, who oversees administration at the courthouse, said it's inappropriate that a Christian symbol is the first thing visitors see when they enter the building.
A number of Christmas trees are on full display inside other public institutions, including at the Ontario legislature, Toronto City Hall and at Nathan Phillips Square. There are also trees inside the Old City Hall courts.
Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty on Thursday slammed the judge's order.
"I think that's unfortunate,'' McGuinty said. "I think it represents a misunderstanding of what we are working so hard to build here in Ontario.'
"We enjoy the wonderful privilege of building a pluralistic and multicultural society.''
The premier said it's unfair to ask people to abandon their traditions, and noted it's important for everybody to learn about and share in each other's celebrations.
"At Queen's Park we celebrated Diwali a few weeks ago, as well at Queen's Park we celebrated Eid. Next week I believe I'm participating in a lighting of the menorah celebration,'' McGuinty said.
"What we're saying is, let's share in those opportunities, let's better understand those celebrations.''
Staff at the Jarvis Street courthouse were unwilling to comment on camera, but told CTV's Janice Golding they are disheartened. One man, who said the tree has been a Christmas tradition for decades, was infuriated when he learned of the decision.
Lawyers who work in the building were also upset and couldn't understand the reasoning.
"There's no reason why a Christmas tree can't be put wherever people want it to be. It's by no means an offense, I believe, to any religion," said Cynthia Mancia.
"I don't know that it falls upon judges to make decisions of that sort anymore than upon any other member of the public," added John Lamont.
There is currently no court or ministry policy that addresses this particular situation. Attorney General Michael Bryant said he'll be speaking to the chief of the Ontario Court of Justice about creating one.
Cohen would not comment on camera.
The tree has since been moved to an administrative corridor off to the side.
The story has triggered a flurry of angry responses from CTV viewers and readers.
Another Christmas incident in 2002 sparked backlash from the public when city hall officials put out a news release calling its giant tree at Nathan Phillips Square a "holiday tree."
Then-mayor Mel Lastman, who is Jewish, ordered staff to call it a Christmas tree. He then introduced a bylaw that prohibits the tree from being given any other name.
With a report from CTV's Janice Golding
Let the judge do this. It's unlikely that leftists will be able to reproduce themselves in the long run.
Actually a nice Nativity scene would be better than a Christmas tree.
No kidding...these activists are just sick...
A Catholic protest group set one up there... http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/dec/06121503.html
There is no free speech in Canada either. Quoting the Bible can end you up in jail in Canada.
[A Toronto judge has ordered a Christmas tree out of a downtown provincial courthouse lobby, saying it's not an appropriate symbol to non-Christians. The move by Justice Marion Cohen has upset staff, some of whom call the decision stupid and insulting.]
They'd better watch that hate speech, too. Calling the decision "stupid" might be offensive to the intellectually handicapped.
Of course, Canada does not have a corner on moron judges; it simply underscores the failure of the system to allow the political dimension in appointing them.
This statement is absurd in the extreme, since the potential "victim" trumps everyone else's right in being able to define a grievance as anything. Unless there is an objective means of defining valid complaints; it is sophistry in the extreme.
The second deadliest threat to Western culture is Political Correctness. Second only to islam.
Awwww, I thought this was a Cowboys thread!
Kidding aside, this is idiotic. I hope the backlash on this is huge.
Only if it makes direct or indirect reference to perverts.
Wasn't there a threat to arrest the Pope if he got too "uppity" during a visit a couple of years ago?
Thank you for the information about the nativity scene. We always had a nativity scene in our hometown and then it got banned. Now the Christmas trees are being taken down - and they're not even religious.
Haven't thousands of our soldiers fought so we could have freedom of religion. What we have now seems to be freedom to ban somebody else's holy days.
I bet if it was a called a "Druid tree" to celebrate the solstice, no one would have complained...
You'd think with a name like Cohen she'd recuse herself.
I didn't hear about that one. It's worse than I thought.
Our town in New Hampshire still puts up a nativity scene (maintained by the Highway Department) in the little park near the library. Then Santa arrives (on a truck provided by the Fire Department). So far, no complaints, although some folks are happily surprised that we still have a nativity scene...
The lady needs to resign. She's just demonstrated she lacks the judgment to make reasonable decisions.
First of all, a Christmas tree is not a Christian symbol.
bump
What? Terrell Owens has a full-time judge assigned to him now? I guess we always knew it would come to that...
So disobey the order. Put the Christmas tree up , don't rant about it and see what happens. It is time to do some civil disobedience on some of these lefty decisions that have no point in accepted law. Enough is enough.
Just more evidence that Satan is alive and well in the world today!!
What a bunch of crap! Christmas trees are NOT a Christian symbol, no more than Santa Claus. Almost everyone celebrates this national holiday in one way or another, buying gifts for loved ones, etc. It's all horse puckey.
Moving a symbol that has nothing to do with Christianity is Satanic?
Christmas has to do with Christianity, and this is more evidence that people are trying to wipe out Christmas from the public places where traditionally it's always been...that's the connection.
We don't have Christmas trees at Easter or Halloween. We have Christmas trees at Christmas, a Christian holiday. You cannot separate the two, even though a Christmas tree may not have a religious connotation.
Thank God that here in the United States we have a Bill of Rights, and the First Amendment says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."
And so here in the United States, if some scumbag liberal Democrat judge tried to do what this Canadian judge did, everybody would laugh and say to the scumbag judge, "Go play in the street, you p.o.s."
"a Christmas tree may not have a religious connotation."
So moving one needn't be Satanic. Thanks for clearing that up.
Never said moving one was 'satanic'--I said Satan is alive and well and walking around this planet trying to wipe Christianity and anything that portrays that religion off the face of the planet. That's all. :-)
"-I said Satan is alive and well and walking around this planet"
I'm checking out before this gets any weirder.
Oh, ye of little faith. :-)
Does it mean that if we find ourselves in front of the Canadian judge have to worry about his/her religious affiliation?
Ms. Cohen should be forced to resign.
I can only hope this Marion Cohen gets bitch slapped and is forced to yield.
DOWN WITH BLACK ROBBED TYRANTS!
I agree, but that is almost impossible.
You two miss the point. It would shame me to have to explain this on this Forum.
Absolutely. This woman has a problem. It's pure judicial tyranny. Callous too.
Kudos to "then-mayor Lastman" for his constructive response to a similar outrage.
Civil disobedience. Amen.
Decorated trees are nice. Wouldn't mind seeing them all winter long. I like the lights they string up here in Edinburgh.
I always found the nativity scene creepy and strange. Don't see why it needs to be in a public place.
Can you show me where in the bible it says anything about Christmas trees?
Now, where did Christmas trees come from and what is their connection to Christianity? And as long as we're discussing things that cannot be seperated, surely one could not think of Christmas with out thinking about Saint Nicholas and his reindeer. The guy's a saint and apparently magic. Where does it say anything about him or reindeer in the bible?
Reindeer... Hmmmm... Now where do reindeer live? I wonder if any of the tradition for what we call Christmas might have originated where reindeer live? Hmmm... What an interesting thought. I wonder if the tree might've come from the same culture? Wow, maybe the tree has nothing whatsoever to do with Christmas or Christ and it just got co-opted into Christianity when it was realised people wouldn't let go of winter festival celebrations?
Hmmmm. Has Christ always had a part in winter festival or has he been merely a secondary player in it? I think the latter is more likely. Trees, reindeer, decorated eggs and bunnies... Goblins and ghouls on Halloween. What have any of these to do with Christianity or the birth/death of Christ?
Do you not find it profane to Christianity to tie the birth of Christ to paganism and pagan symbols?
Ah... the eunuchs of Canada speak!!!
Last year I saw a live Nativity scene. I was driving down the road and there it was. I stopped and there were people playing the part of Mary and Joseph and the wise men and there was a donkey and some sheep and more.
I had never heard of a live Nativity scene up North, probably because it is so cold. Others here on FR told me they had seen them but I never had. It was actually very nice. Very beautiful.
Whether they're robbed by blacks or whites, if they're tyrants they should go!
DOWN WITH BLACK ROBED TYRANTS too!!!
I assume she is talking about herself.
That's the problem with judges. At some point they start to think that they are gods themselves and they don't want to be reminded of a higher power.
'Twas the month before Christmas When all through our land,
Not a Christian was praying Nor taking a stand.
See the PC Police had taken away, the reason for Christmas - no one could say.
The children were told by their schools not to sing, About Shepherds and Wise Men and
Angels and things.
It might hurt people's feelings; the teachers would say December 25th is just a "Holiday
Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit Pushing folks down to the
floor just to get it!
CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod something was changing, something quite odd!
Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.
As Targets were hanging their trees upside down At Lowe's the word Christmas - was no
where to be found.
At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears You won't hear the word Christmas;
it won't touch your ears.
Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-si-ty Are words that were used to intimidate me.
Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen on Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry,
On Clinton!
At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter. And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith Forbidden to speak of
Salvation and grace.
The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded the reason for the season,
stopped before it started.
So as you celebrate "Winter Break" under your "Dream Tree" Sipping your Starbucks,
listen to me.
Choose your words carefully; choose what you say Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS,
Not Happy Holiday!
This judge must listen to Late night Coast to Coast where the crazy religeous guy JC called in and said SANTA CLAUS actually means SATAN CLAUS if you rearange the letters.
So, did it move? I'd like to see the video of that.
The power of judges is impressive. I can't make trees move even when I threaten them with an axe.
"Get thee behind me, Satan." You didn't capitalize Bible, the Holy Word of God, which is a sign of disrespect.
What I find profane is attacking fellow Christians for pointing out that there IS evil in this world, and that Satan is a living creature determined to undermine Christianity in every way, shape and form, sometimes actually using Christians in the process!
Of course, I am assuming you are a Christian, you may also be one of those scripturally familiar atheists who likes to attack Christians with nitpicking of their religious beliefs.
I was referring to the religion of Christianity being attacked. We don't WORSHIP the Christmas tree, or Santa Claus, or Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. But we *do* celebrate cultural and societal traditions in our home concerning the Christmas season.
We have a Christmas tree at our house, and we use Santa and snowmen and reindeer to demonstrate the season. My 6 year old knows that the day we celebrate is not the actual birth day of baby Jesus, but she knows that we share gifts with friends and family to demonstrate the love that Jesus shared with us by living and dying for ALL of us. You will never get me to believe that having a Christmas tree and pretending that Santa is delivering gifts on Christmas Eve is evil and will cut us off from the Eternal Love of Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit.
Merry Christmas to you, and hopefully less pharisee-ing in the New Year! :-)
(Oh, wait, celebrating the new year is evil too, I bet?)
And the point is?
You can't be serious.
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