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Michelle Bachelet: a Pinochet-hating a Soviet apparatchik
10/18/2006 | self

Posted on 12/16/2006 12:46:46 PM PST by lqclamar

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To: ikka
Of course,the Smithsonian Magazine just came out with an issue that covers Chile and Bachelet, fawning over her.

I saw it...absolutely disgusting. They make her into a "victim" and her father into a "martyr."

Her father Alberto Bachelet is a pretty disgusting creature in his own right. He was Allende's food commissar - the marxist thug who oversees the distribution of rotten bread and bags of sawdust to proletarian peasants in the food lines after they kill the farmers and seize their land.

21 posted on 12/16/2006 7:33:17 PM PST by lqclamar
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To: Non-Sequitur
I take it you consider the Staatssicherheit to be a fine democratic institution then? You must share in Bachelet's political "take up arms" agenda and iron curtain fondness then...

Your concern is not to help the people
And I'll say again, though it's been often said
Your concern is just to bring discomfort, my friend
And your policy is just a little red.

22 posted on 12/16/2006 7:45:22 PM PST by lqclamar
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To: tanuki

Tanuki, just this past summer, oil-rich Mexico came close to electing a communist president. That's one of our chief trading partners right on our border.


23 posted on 12/16/2006 11:06:52 PM PST by Bonaparte
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To: Non-Sequitur
Are you suggesting that taking up arms to install communism in Chile is a legitimate function of the Chilean president under a democratic system?

I ask you this because your reply to lqclamar's very reasonable post 19, suggests that's what you believe.

Perhaps you missed this thread. It may enlighten you about Pinochet, the problem he faced and why he had no other choice.

24 posted on 12/16/2006 11:16:58 PM PST by Bonaparte
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To: Bonaparte

I heard you. We ducked a massive bullet there. Castro and Chavez launched a massive political offensive against our interests this year in Mexico, Peru and elsewhere and if they had succeeded it would have changed the entire political map of Latin America.

They failed, however, and in defeating them the folks down there have confirmed that the appeal of leftist populism is far less than many up here think. As the years pass, I am hopeful that enough of a critical mass emerges that the kind of malignant populist regimes we have seen before become the exception rather than the rule.




25 posted on 12/16/2006 11:48:01 PM PST by tanuki
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To: Non-Sequitur
I don't. I prefer a constitutional Republic. Democracy is but two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Pinochet saved Chile from anarchy at best and a Marxist dictatorship at worset.

26 posted on 12/16/2006 11:50:22 PM PST by Clemenza (Never Trust Anyone With a Latin Tagline)
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To: tanuki
What most of Latin America needs more than anything is the extension of opportunity for advancement and prosperity. Until that occurs, the masses of restive poor will gravitate toward the blandishments of totalitarians. Desperation and ignorance make a bad combination. We just saw this happen in Venezuela and the only reason we didn't see it in Mexico this year is because millions of those impoverished Mexicans were up here. Out of at least 12 million of them only 52,000 or so went to the trouble of voting absentee through their consulates. It's not hard to figure out who those votes went to. Keep in mind that the new Mexican president only won by about 200,000 votes.

The corrupt oligarchies in Mexico and elsewhere in Latin America have got to see that without reform, without the extension of opportunity, they will be creating the very conditions the communists will use to seize power. Then where will they be? Where will we be? We will be fighting the islamic enemy for the next 30 years. The last thing we need is another war to the south.

27 posted on 12/17/2006 12:19:11 AM PST by Bonaparte
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To: lqclamar
Your concern is not to help the people And I'll say again, though it's been often said Your concern is just to bring discomfort, my friend And your policy is just a little red.

No my policy is pro-democracy and anti-tyranny, no matter what color you try to paint the tyranny in. And how about answering my question? Since President Bachlet is a socialist and spent time during the Pinochet regime in exile in East Germany and didn't much care for Pinochet, is that a reason enough to ignore the preference of 54% of the electorat and get the troops out of the barracks again and into the presidential palace?

28 posted on 12/17/2006 3:47:54 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Clemenza
Pinochet saved Chile from anarchy at best and a Marxist dictatorship at worset.

He had to destroy the republic on order to save it, huh?

29 posted on 12/17/2006 4:24:32 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Bonaparte
Are you suggesting that taking up arms to install communism in Chile is a legitimate function of the Chilean president under a democratic system?

He was elected under their democratic system, and hyperbole aside there is no evidence he planned on establishing himself as a dictator past his term in office. If that had been his plan then leaving a legislature and court system full of his political opponents in place was an odd way of doing it. There is no doubt that he was a Socialist, probably a Communist. There is no doubt that his policies were making Chile's economy worse. But he was elected under their political system. The putsch was not supported by anything in their Constitution. And establishing a right wing tyranny to offset the possibility of a left wing tyranny is still establishing a tyranny. Now if that is your preferred system of government then there are a whole bunch of dictatorships around the world to choose from. I'd prefer to remain under a democratic form of government, and would oppose dictatorship under any colors.

30 posted on 12/17/2006 4:34:48 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
He had to destroy the republic on order to save it, huh?

I doesn't look like Pinochet destroyed it to me.

He suspended some civil rights during a time of open rebellion. Lincoln did much the same during the Civil War.

Then he killed a couple of thousand commies. NBD.

Today Chile is free to elect Communist nutbags. Had Pinochet failed Chile would not be free to elect anyone but Communist nutbags.

L

31 posted on 12/17/2006 4:35:21 AM PST by Lurker (Historys most dangerous force is government and the crime syndicates that grow with it.)
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To: Bonaparte
Are you suggesting that taking up arms to install communism in Chile is a legitimate function of the Chilean president under a democratic system?

He was elected, was he not?

It may enlighten you about Pinochet, the problem he faced and why he had no other choice.

He 'broke the chains of communism' by establishing a 17 year long military dictatorship. And say what you want, the only reason why he allowed the vote on democracy in the first place was he had absolutely no expectations that he would lose. Sd I've said before, if dictatorship is your preferred form of government then there are any number in the world to choose from. I don't like the idea of living under tyranny regardless of which economic system it paints itself in.

32 posted on 12/17/2006 4:38:06 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

Sometimes, such things are necessary.


33 posted on 12/17/2006 4:41:56 AM PST by Clemenza (Never Trust Anyone With a Latin Tagline)
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To: Bonaparte
It may enlighten you about Pinochet, the problem he faced and why he had no other choice.

Sorry, hit post too early.

And that link you provided did enlighten me a bit. I had read that he was a dictator who killed those who opposed him, so that part didn't surprise me. But I was unaware that he apparently also was a crook who lined his pockets at the taxpayer's expense and was facing tax evasion charges. I guess if you're a poor Army general wanting to make a few bucks he really didn't have any other choice.

34 posted on 12/17/2006 4:44:02 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Clemenza
Sometimes, such things are necessary.

"The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end." Leon Trotsky said that. I suppose he'd support someone like Pinochet, too.

35 posted on 12/17/2006 4:48:11 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Lurker
He suspended some civil rights during a time of open rebellion. Lincoln did much the same during the Civil War.

Lincoln was popularly elected, didn't murder his political opponents just because they opposed him, didn't shut down Congress, and operated under the oversight of a Supreme Court. Comparing someone like Pinochet with someone like Lincoln in laughable.

Then he killed a couple of thousand commies. NBD.

I'm sure that's what Castro said about his opponents.

Today Chile is free to elect Communist nutbags. Had Pinochet failed Chile would not be free to elect anyone but Communist nutbags.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Pinochet's putsch started in the first place because Chile had elected a Communist nutbag. So...is it deja vu all over again? Time to call out the troops and do away with this democracy nonsense for another 17 years?

36 posted on 12/17/2006 4:53:16 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

Machiavelli said as much, and he is the "first conservative."


37 posted on 12/17/2006 4:59:22 AM PST by Clemenza (Never Trust Anyone With a Latin Tagline)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Lincoln was popularly elected

Yes he was.

didn't murder his political opponents just because they opposed him

He didn't murder them, but he did jail them without charge, trial or Habeus Corpus. Newspaper editors, too. He threatened to send troops to arrest a sitting Supreme Court Justice.

didn't shut down Congress,

Actually Congress shut itself down after the Southern Dems walked out denying a quorum in the Senate.

operated under the oversight of a Supreme Court

The SCOTUS got real compliant after Lincoln threatened them with a visit from Federal troops.

Comparing someone like Pinochet with someone like Lincoln in laughable

You're right. At least Pinochet had the support of his Supreme Court.

because Chile had elected a Communist nutbag...

Who suspended the Chilean Constitution, began jailing political opponents, shutting down newspapers etc etc.

So it seems that the Allende was acting a lot like Lincoln before Pinochet came in and started acting like Lincoln.

Time to call out the troops

If the present Communinist nutbag starts acting like the last Communist nutbag it will then be time to call out the troops.

L

38 posted on 12/17/2006 5:01:33 AM PST by Lurker (Historys most dangerous force is government and the crime syndicates that grow with it.)
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To: lqclamar
There is no question that Pinochet "purged" Chile of it's hard left commies who were left over after Allende was removed from office. However, I believe that the number of Chilean commies who actually "disappeared" during this cleansing has been estimated to be in the 5 to 7 thousand range. This is far fewer than the numbers who have disappeared in Cuba after Castro took over and is nothing compared to the totals run up by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot to name just a few.
I think Pinochet allowed many dissidents to leave the country - we in Canada seem to have received our fair share, given the frequent news stories we get in which they whine about the good old times under Allende and how they missed out on the cleansing of his enemies that he had planned.
Allende was just another Hugo Chavez who got stopped before he had time to turn Chile into a workers paradise based on the Cuban model.
The irony is that after Pinochet took over, he turned the Chilean economy into what is now one of the strongest in South America and, when the time came, he stepped down and had democratic elections.
Pinochet saved Chile from becoming just another communist run, economic ruin, repressive basket case.
The fact that the Chilean electorate continues to be enamored by hard left commies like Bachelet just shows that they still think there is a short cut to a workers paradise that doesn't require hard work - only wishful thinking.
39 posted on 12/17/2006 5:20:19 AM PST by finnigan2
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To: Clemenza
Machiavelli said as much, and he is the "first conservative."

And Benjamin Franlin said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." He was right, too.

40 posted on 12/17/2006 6:10:03 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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