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Posted on 12/18/2006 10:58:24 AM PST by kronos77

New York, 18 Dec. (AKI) - Serbs living in the United States are reported to be deeply disturbed and worried by recent arrests of fellow Serbs in connection with the 1990s Balkan wars, community leaders have said. In a six-state swoop, American agents arrested 13 Serb immigrants last week and are looking for another three who are still at large. One of those arrested, Nedjo Ikonic, is being investigated for allegedly having taken part in the massacre of up to 8,000 Muslim men and boys in the eastern Bosnian town of Srebrenica when it was overrun by Serb forces in July 1995.

If convicted, Ikonic and other suspects face up to ten years in jail and deportation from the US. "These cases demonstrate our resolve to identify and prosecute those who enter the US under false pretences," said deputy attorney general Paul McNulty. "Especially those who hide their military past," he added.

Those arrested were poor immigrants who had no money for lawyers of bail to defend themselves from freedom, the Serbian consul in Chicago, Desko Nikitovic, told Vesti daily. He said Serbia could not help them because most were Bosnian citizens.

"Unfortunately, this is a huge operation in which only Bosnia-Herzegovina can intervene with Washington. No-one needs to spoil the relations between our two countries, which have been improving," said Nikitovic.

Milwaukee lawyer, Nikola Kostic, said he was trying to organise a team to offer legal help to the arrested and their families, because neither Serbia nor Serb organisations in America have shown much interest in helping the suspects.

"Serbs are being hunted throughout America, but no one is checking Bosnian Muslims and Croats who have immigrated to the United States in the past 10-15 years," Zika Petrovic of Denver, Colorado, told Vesti. "No one asks them whether they have concealed what they did in the wars, what army they served and whether they committed crimes against Serbs," Petrovic said. "All this is creating an unfortunate impression that the war against Bosnian Serbs has now shifted to US soil," he concluded.

Vesti, distributed throughout Serbian emigre community - which numbers a million in the US - said that there is a list of over 300 people, submitted to the United States by Bosnian authorities and the United Nations' Yugoslav war crimes tribunal, who are suspected of having committed crimes during the 1992-1995 Bosnian civil war.

Officially, the suspects are being charged for failing to report to immigration authorities that they served in the Bosnian Serb army, which fought against local Muslims. (Vpr/Aki)

Dec-18-06 15:00

TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; balkanization; balkans; bosnia; clintonlegacy; ihoppy; illegalimmigrants; immigrantlist; immigration; kosovo; mark502ss; reddhimmi; serbia; sorosfluffers; srebrenica; toothlessdhimmi; us; warcrimes; warcriminals; wrongplace; wrongside; wrongtime; wrongwar
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To: A. Pole

The only people that are "lying" are those denying that these atrocities occurred. Starving people to death is wrong, even if you consider that acceptable. Gang raping woman is wrong, even if you consider them lesser.,,184818,00.html

The real liars are having a hard time in court.

You guys keep denying it and you scream really loud, but so far you're loosing in the courts as well. Because as said:

• The UN saw it and reported it.
• NATO troops saw it from multiple countries.
• EU representatives saw it and reported on it.
• The international media saw it.
• Many were displaced and these refugees were apparent to all. Germany alone took on 250,000 refugees. Many of them obviously physically abused.

But according to you, it's a huge conspiracy against Serbia. You know what we call most conspiracy theorists like you?

You're attempting to rewrite history, and screaming loud and just throwing the word liar around is not going to change the fact of who the aggressor was, who didn't want to stop the war or the genocide. Today you are attempting to "justify" or "deny" these actions. You're a low life, I hope you're not an American.

21 posted on 12/18/2006 6:15:13 PM PST by Red6 (Weird thoughts -)
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To: Banat

"Nobody here is defending any war crimes or war criminals." You wrote.

I suggest you read the posts again.

22 posted on 12/18/2006 6:19:39 PM PST by Red6 (Weird thoughts -)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..


23 posted on 12/18/2006 6:55:12 PM PST by gubamyster
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Karajan was also a NAZI. In totalitarian regimes the only way to survive is to buy into the system. This is in Iraq as well, and was the case in the former DDR. The Germans took over many former soldiers from the Nationale Volks Armee and in Iraq today even some former Ba’athists are back in government. But they have gone through a debaathification and vetting process (much like denazification after WWII) and were not the ones who were personally culpable of war crimes under the Saddam regime or on the East West boarder in the German case. The guards at the boarder who shot people dead for trying to get to the West sure did find themselves in court after unification, and Saddam, some top military officers, and other Ba’athists are in prison for a reason.

Example: Helmut Schmidt
He served in the German Army in WWII, is he a bad guy? No. He later became Chancellor.

Much of what you write is folklore mixed with half truths.

Example: Since this is the guy you’re referring to I suggest you read a bit about him, since what you’re doing is throwing out half baked insinuations that are flimsy at best trying to concoct some BS relativistic argument.

What did von Braun “personally” do that would make him a war criminal? Please tell me? Do you think that maybe 99% of those living around Dachau knew what was going on? They did. Are all of them war criminals for that? No. But that guy making bets on how many heads his 9mm bullet would go through did commit a crime. See a difference?

People like this were prosecuted and hunted down.

24 posted on 12/18/2006 7:13:19 PM PST by Red6 (Weird thoughts -)
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To: kronos77

Alberto Gonzales hard at work once again, aided by Bush I's advice to Bush II - all bad.

25 posted on 12/18/2006 7:58:10 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Red6
>>>>>>>Much of what you write is folklore mixed with half truths<<<<<<<

I do not know what to make out of your post. Either you are uninformed or hope that I do not have firm command of the facts. The both are regrettable and inefficient.

Following the logic of your post, even Hitler is inocent because also did not kill anyone with his own hands, just like Von Braun.

Here are some of your esteemed Nazis who got free owing to U.S. agencies:

In January, 1951, John J. McCloy announced that Alfried Krupp and eight members of his board of directors who had been convicted with him, were to be released. His property, valued at around 45 million, and his numerous companies were also restored to him.

Others that McCloy decided to free included Friedrich Flick, one of the main financial supporters of Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). During the Second World War Flick became extremely wealthy by using 48,000 slave labourers from SS concentration camps in his various industrial enterprises. It is estimated that 80 per cent of these workers died as a result of the way they were treated during the war. His property was restored to him and like Krupp became one of the richest men in Germany.

McCloy's decision was very controversial. Eleanor Roosevelt wrote to McCloy to ask: "Why are we freeing so many Nazis? The Washington Post published a Herb Block cartoon depicting a smiling McCloy opening Krupp's cell door, while in the background Joseph Stalin is shown taking a photograph of the event. Telford Taylor, who took part in the prosecution of the Nazi war criminals wrote: "Wittingly or not, Mr. McCloy has dealt a blow to the principles of international law and concepts of humanity for which we fought the war." Alfried Krupp was one of the top CONVICTED war criminals.

I did not speak about Von Karajan or Von Braun. I spoke about tens of top Nazi scientists from V1 and V2 program.

In Penemunde Von Braun and his Nazi pals destroyed up to 20 000 slave laborers.

ARTUR RUDOLPH was investigated and stripped of U.S. citizenship in 1984 because of war crimes committed during V2 project. He lived comfortable life for 40 years.

Here is FBI file:"

I do not apreciate the tone of your post. You may accuse me till the cow come home but you can not change the facts that top Nazis escaped justice owing to the U.S.

26 posted on 12/18/2006 8:13:50 PM PST by DTA (Mr. President., Condy is asleep at the wheel !)
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To: Banat
["Nobody here is defending any war crimes or war criminals. I just have a really big problem with double standards, that's all."]

Me included.
So why does Nasir Oric end up getting "credit for time served?"
Answer: A double standard that is biased against Serbs and seemingly continues to exist.
27 posted on 12/18/2006 9:02:49 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Red6

["The real liars are having a hard time in court."]

Oric didn't have such a "hard time in court."

Think before you write.

28 posted on 12/18/2006 9:06:55 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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Again, where is your concrete argument reference von Braun? Nothing, thank you. And you did intend to construct the typical BS argument that one hears so often.

Tell me specifically what von Braun did that constitutes a war crime?

All you do is bla bla bla. Never do you construct an argument that ties von Braun to a war crime, because you CAN NOT. Shear association does not make one a war criminal. Just like no one is saying anyone who was in the Serb Army is a criminal. However, there were a few that did do bad things, and they do deserve to be prosecuted once identified.

I quote you, ****“Nazi scientists were brought in bulk under Paperclip program. American space program was led by people who worked P.O.W.'s to death. (Nazi rockets were lablled V1, V2, American was labelled SaturnV, go figure).”**** Your own words. Who were you insinuating? Von Braun.

Different people got different sentences because they did different things. Some got nothing, and there was no national interest at stake for letting them off. What did Karajan have that we needed? He was a card carrying NAZI party member. But did he commit any crime? Association alone is not enough.

So, in your previous post you attempt to argue with “guilt by association”. In this last post your reasoning took you down the road of arguing with the “straw man”.

“Following the logic of your post, even Hitler is innocent because also did not kill anyone with his own hands, just like Von Braun. “ You wrote

Many of the war criminals of WWII evaded justice. This was not because of a deliberate intent of the US, rather the inability to determine who the bad players were, many slipping out and going to places like Argentina or Switzerland. Many in the most senior positions committing some of the gravest crimes were known, such as Eichman. However, the names of the machine gunners who gunned down 4,000 POW in Dachau as machine gun practice, those people are forgotten in history and no one was going to volunteer that information on themselves. Those that committed these crimes after the war didn’t jump up and yell, “HELLO, yes I was the one who cut down hundreds just to practice my skills on that MG42.” In fact, there were many cases where years later the US forces identified individuals with a questionable past who had been working for them in Germany and they were not high level scientists. No one was a NAZI when the war was over, and they all claimed that they fought the Russians. Many from the SS had strange scars in place of a tattoo. There was also an issue with the shear volume of people you’re dealing with. Documents were destroyed, people kept their secrets, there were millions of people to deal with, many of the victims were dead, many of the bad guys fled, and you didn’t have modern capabilities to sort the shear volumes of data. Just think of the shear MILLIONS of people that were moving because of the displacement of boarders, POW returning etc. Germany was occupied by several nations, not just the US. I assure you; many war criminals got off or were identified years later not because of a systemic intent, but rather because of the overall situation.

Do you realize that the case of Arthur Rudolf which you reference MAKES MY POINT?

Too many in the US even today, a German in WWII is synonymous with NAZI. That’s not the case. But even so, the NAZI party had OVER 8.5 million members (1 in 6 German adults). As I attempted to explain before, if you were going to be a “somebody” you had to join. While amoral and most surly were knowledgeable at least to a large degree of the evil this party was involved with, most of these members did not personally do anything for which you can call them a war criminal.

Arthur Rudolf once he returned to Germany in the mid 80’s didn’t even get prosecuted by the Germans because there was inadequate evidence of wrong doing. Like the conspiracy theories of the US knowing about the imminent attack on Pearl Harbor, this argument of “We let NAZI war criminals off the hook that worked for us” BS keeps surfacing. Truth is, Arthur Rudolf more or less “settled” this issue and left the US and renounced his US citizenship on our request. He was never found guilty of anything and most likely never would have been (But this is speculation). He feared for his safety and we didn’t want the mess, so he left. It’s pathetic when you have to resort to something like this in an attempt to make your point.

**** BTW - I suggest you read your own link to the FBI record since it’s rather amusing that you post a link that has a bunch of American colleagues saying what a great guy he was and nothing incriminating in it! ****
However, I will even “somewhat” agree with you. The laws of man are imperfect, and those who apply these laws are imperfect as well. This is true even today as it was in 1946 when Europe was a mess. But the statement that the US shielded NAZI war criminals is largely folklore. It’s one of those frequently repeated statements that when you press people for real tangibles ends up empty handed. Just like the theory that we were aware of Pearl Harbor before it happened, or that the bomb need not be dropped; this argument that you propose is usually presented in conjuction with another agenda, but is hollow when it comes to facts.

29 posted on 12/18/2006 10:00:43 PM PST by Red6 (Weird thoughts -)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
As of March 16, 2006, the ICTY had indicted 161 persons. Only six of these remained "at large". The cases against 85 of the indicted had been concluded: 43 were found guilty, 8 acquitted, 25 had their indictments withdrawn, and six had died - 3 of these in custody, 3 while on parole. Four cases had been sent to national courts for trial. 15 of those convicted had completed their sentences and been released by March 2006.[1] ( )

The verdict (
The tribunal ***convicted Oriæ*** on only a few of the charges in the indictment and sentenced him to imprisonment for 2 years. The judges noted that militarily superior Serb forces encircled the town and that there was an unmanageable influx of refugees there, as well as a critical shortage of food and the breakdown of law and order. The judges also noted that it was in these circumstances that Oriæ, then aged 25, was elected commander of a poorly trained volunteer force that lacked effective links with government forces in Sarajevo. His authority was scorned by some other Bosnian leaders and his situation became worse as the Serb forces increased the momentum of their siege.[35]

The judges stated in the verdict that Oriæ had reason to know about murder and cruel treatment of Serbs on two specific occasions in the Police station, but acquitted him of all other crimes. Oriæ was acquitted of direct involvement in the murder of prisoners in the early years of the 1992-95 Bosnia war. But the court found he had closed his eyes to their mistreatment and failed to punish their killers. The three judges acquitted him of all charges related to the wanton destruction of Serb villages. The judges also took into account the lack of food and supplies and resulting lack of order and law during the Serbian siege on Srebrenica.[36]

As for the destruction in the villages of Kravica, Siljkoviæi, Bjelovac, Fakoviæi and Sikiric, the judgment states that the prosecution failed to present convincing evidence that the Bosnian forces were responsible for them, because the Serb forces used artillery in the fighting in those villages. In the case of the village of Bjelovac, Serbs even used the warplanes.[37]

Since Oriæ had been in the ICTY detention unit for 3 years, three months and 21 days, the court ordered that he be released as soon as possible.

You're right! I'll think a lot harder before I post the next time. lol
30 posted on 12/18/2006 10:19:53 PM PST by Red6 (Weird thoughts -)
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To: Red6

["You're right! I'll think a lot harder before I post the next time."]

Nice to hear that, and don't give me Wikipeida stuff.

Use your own head...but of course I may be asking too much.

31 posted on 12/18/2006 10:32:29 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Red6; tgambill
You are a soldier and should be familiar with Geneva convention and The Hague Conventions regarding treatment of POWs and civilian forced labor. Working them to death is not an option - this is WAR CRIME. And that is exactly what happened in Penemunde and elsewhere where V2 was developed.

Von Braun was in position to prevent this and he did not. Neither did Rudolph.

Your notion that membership in Nazi party was not criminal act itself goes against The Nuremberg judgement. NSDAP was declared to be a CRIMINAL ORGANISATION.

As of idea that foreknowledge of Pearl Harbour is some kind of conspiracy theory, it shows that your knowledge is at least 50 years behind the published facts.

32 posted on 12/18/2006 10:47:20 PM PST by DTA (Mr. President., Condy is asleep at the wheel !)
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To: ikka

Yes, it was one of his worse acts. But, he was groomed during the time when he received the Rhodes Scholarship to lead this illegal act of entering the Balkans. It worked like a charm. He was groomed to be president by the Globalist and he fulfilled that role very well. Monica was the distraction from the Balkans, not the other way around. This is the reality. We were on the wrong side but by exact design. It is in fact about the oil reserves in the Caspian plus to provoke the Russians into a war as we have tried provoke since the 60's. The independence of Kosovo and fulfillment of the Greater Albania since 1948 (BK movement) which we were main players to design (Reference Operation Fiend (Frank Wisner, Sr.) It was a CIA disaster. We sided with the Muslims since we trained Bin Laden in Afghanistan, then worked with ISI to move thousands to Bosnia, Croatia and finally to Kosovo. The "So-called" 8,000 massacred is a lot of bologna and hogwash. Yes, somewhere in the area of 3,000-3,500 or so, were killed but mostly were combatants and victims of war. The Muslims murdered and "jihaded" their way from Bosnia to Kosovo and have not finished yet, under our watch. This is the cold truth and its very disturbing. The big picture is well beyond Clinton..he is just a footnote.

This arrest boondoggle is all about timing and political influence. I would venture a guess that the arresting officers even believe they are doing the right thing, but they are pawns in the same BS game.

There are many of the Albanian diaspora that are working like the rest of us. However, there is a signficant number that are members of the Albanian Mafia and operate without much problem.

The issue of these arrests is timing, in order to influence Congressional members to go pro-independence for Kosovo and also serve as a reminder to the rest of the world about the exaggerated version of the war in the Balkans. Now, the Serbs are not innocent either. The paramilitaries did act with impunity by taking advantage of the situation and did commit crimes. There were no rape camps, nor were there any massacres that equaled WWII etc....however, one must not forget who captured Milosevic in the first place.

Long way around, yes, one of many Clinton's worse acts was supporting the Muslim massacres then and continue even up to today....

33 posted on 12/18/2006 11:24:46 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic

"Nice to hear that, and don't give me Wikipeida stuff"

It's groan inducing, having to read arguments from people who think that taking a quick gander at WIKIPEDIA ( FFS ) is research.

Red6, do yourself a favour and read the ICTY TRANSCRIPTS to, for example, the Milosevic case ( about 50,000 pages ) , the Kyle case ( 10,000 pages ) the Blagojevic and Jokic case ( another 10,000 odd pages ) before you embarrass yourself with WIKI F*&&^%G PEDIA


34 posted on 12/18/2006 11:27:11 PM PST by infidel_pride
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To: tgambill
["The "So-called" 8,000 massacred is a lot of bologna and hogwash. Yes, somewhere in the area of 3,000-3,500 or so, were killed but mostly were combatants and victims of war."]

Tom: You're raising a very good point (in general terms). In fact, the BBC continues to claim that 200,000 people were killed during the Balkan wars. This is a complete falsehood.
35 posted on 12/18/2006 11:42:42 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: WatchingInAmazement

"And the Bush administration has done nothing different, just continuing the same policy."

Very well put and right on target.......I call it "wind up toy"...

36 posted on 12/18/2006 11:43:16 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic

100,000 Kososo Albanians, missing feared massacred...oppps, sorry, it's really 10,000 K-Albanians were massacred....opppps, zorry, we only found 2,108 bodies, and 22 were from a Serbian mass graves....opppss, we gave the K-Albanians wrong body parts, should we tell them...(UN), so, what happened to the rest?

200,000....I don't think is a complete falsehood.

37 posted on 12/18/2006 11:53:43 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Red6

BS, the Holocaust did happen. Iran with a special commission? :)) That's like a Hells Angel Special commission to determine whether or not Charles manson was guilty....lolol...:))

"The bodies revealed on Thursday were thought to be those of Kosovo Albanians removed from Kosovo as part of a cover-up allegedly ordered by former President Slobodan Milosevic during his military campaign in 1999. "

why is it always "believed to be", "thought to be", "could be". Also, many of the bodies are mixed Serbs and Albanians killed by the ill fated and poorly planned NATO bombing, that left more dead than the Serbs could of killed themselves. Ever hear of plants at the right time.

38 posted on 12/18/2006 11:57:54 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Red6

"A vision of Hell" ?????

You got to be kidding...their hands are free, they are not starving, they have clothes on, they have no look of fear or distress on their faces....I see no physical damage... this is hell?? it's a white wash...and they are terrorist. Last I heard, you contain and put terrorist in camps. They look well fed and just a little uncomfortable.

39 posted on 12/19/2006 12:01:07 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: A. Pole

They are waiting for the bus to take them to the looks like.

40 posted on 12/19/2006 12:01:52 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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