Skip to comments.U.S.: DISMAY AT ARREST OF ETHNIC SERBS
Posted on 12/18/2006 10:58:24 AM PST by kronos77
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Only one problem -- they never found the bodies. I think you're the only person I've seen on here who actually defends what was done to the Serbs. We should, as a country, be ashamed and apologize.
Yet, out of 161 indicted, the bulk are Serbs. Out of 3 who died in custody ALL are Serbs. Out of those who were allowed to leave ICTY before the trial and being in good health, none are Serbs.
ICTY's brazen claim "BRINGING JUSTICE TO THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA" is tantamount to Dr Kavorkian bringing health to his patients.
ICTY was created as a political tool with a goal to "punish Serbian agresssion". "Agression" that was invented in political circles.
A court dispensing political tools is not a judicary institution. It is a court, like Hitler's peoples courts and Stalin trials.
Paging Jack Bauer. Jack Bauer please pick up the red courtesy phone.
And then we haven't even gotten into the mysterious death of Milosevic.
http://www.shofar.de/labeling-e.html The PR images of "Serbs as Nazis" became accepted as fact, even though the leaders of supposed "victims" were an Islamic fundamentalist and a Neo-Nazi Holocaust denier!
Clinton saw himself as "FDR", Blair as "Churchill", and the ICTY as "Nurenburg". All those countries that let the Jews down during WWII, wanted to prove that "genocide would not be tolerated" this time -- even if no genocide was taking place in the Balkans and the "defenseless victims" were "anything but that" Muslims:
The ICTY is a kangaroo court where they make up "laws" as they prosecute, and not before -- they base these "laws" around what sort of case that they think that they can make against a indictee after the fact, not before. It's so bad that even the US will not allow it's citizens to be governed by a "World Court". The purpose of these UN Courts are nothing more than to justify writing history from the victors point of view. The people involved in prosecuting this are not heroes, they are narcisstic villains.
Our involvement in Balkan politics has yielded nothing for us except embarassment (we don't accept a World Court to prosecute us, but we expect you little countries to agree to it!) and grief (we gave al Qaeda a new base in Europe) -- we got our "thanks" for saving Muslims on 9/11.
The whole situation is a sick farce.
Again, I am scratching my head. In your own post #50, you cite ""As of March 16, 2006, the ICTY had indicted 161 persons. Only six of these remained "at large". The cases against 85 of the indicted had been concluded: 43 were found guilty, 8 acquitted, 25 had their indictments withdrawn, and six had died - 3 of these in custody, 3 while on parole. Four cases had been sent to national courts for trial. 15 of those convicted had completed their sentences and been released by March 2006."
It seems that you can not differentiate between 161 indicted and 161 convicted. You can not even figure out that 161 indicted Serbs, Croats, Muslims and Albanians does not constitute "161 Serbs found guilty of war crimes"
It only shows that either you are clutching for a straw, perhaps to convince yourself of something you know too well not to be true, or trying to fool us like a kid caught with a hand in a cookie jar.
true.....In the years I was there, it seemed that nothing was definite and when you thought you had it figured out, it always had a twist to the drama.....that is the Balkans. In many cases, Serbs would help Albanians steal Serb cows or tractors.....it was somewhat confusing at times.
:)) the Serb military made fools of Clarks follies....you should read about how they fooled them.
The whole situation is designed to provoke Russia into a third world war in the end...and to gain access to the Caspian oil reserves.....and finally just another objective for the "insiders"...
That is called projection in psychology. You accuse me of something I am not doing, but what you are doing. I do not deny that some Serbs have committed war crimes.
However, you attempt to hide that others in Balkan civil war have commited crimes as well, but the bulk of them were not convicted. Oric is prime example.
""""The whole situation is designed to provoke Russia into a third world war in the end...and to gain access to the Caspian oil reserves.....and finally just another objective for the "insiders"...""""" You wrote
The intervention in the Balkans was about the oil! ROFLMAO
You guys are a clown show! lol
Even under Milosevic officers and soldiers who commited crimes in Kosovo were prosecuted and convicted. You have no clue.
However, the same can not be said of USAF pilot who deliberately striked passenger train.
or pilot who deliberately dropped cluster bombs on a busy market place.
Seems to me that the Serbs one of only a few people that recognize the danger of Islam and are willing to fight against it.
Paul McNulty must have winked, and had his fingers crossed when he said that. Maybe he just forgot to except the Mexican illegals.
Four hundred years under savage Muslim rule made every Serb aware of "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
On a level field, Serbs can fight Islamists and win, but Serbs can not fight U.S. who support Islamists and win. Sadly but true, U.S. is aligned with Islamists and islamic terrorists in the Balkans.
Once again, you are equating the Serbs with the Nazis -- just as the PR whores that the Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Kosovo Albanians hired said very specifically was their "accomplishment". There were no "ovens" in Bosnia, there were no "rape camps" in Bosnia, there was a civil war between those who wanted to leave Yugoslavia (Bosnian Muslims) in Bosnia and those who wished to stay in Yugoslavia -- primarily Serbs, but also Naser Oric's followers --Oric was the most popularly elected Muslim in Bosnia at the time. There were war crimes on all sides, but the Serbs were the only ones to admit that they weren't angels. The ICTY has prosecuted primarily Serbs and only a few token Muslims and Croats, in spite of the fact that there is even video of the beheadins of Serbs!
No one here is "a joke", Red. If you want to salivate over the prosecution of "Serbs as Nazis" and "Bosnian Muslims as Jews" just like some Ruder-Finn trained Pavlovian dog, then that's your choice-- meanwhile, Serbs are no threat to us Americans and the very Bosnian (& Albanian) Muslims who we helped are now al Qaeda sponsors. The Bosnian and Albanian Muslims were never "the Jews", and the worst of them were and are a blood-thristy bunch of Islamic jihadists bent on taking, not only Serbs heads, but yours and mine, as well.
Listening to you and your ilk go on about the prosecution of "the big bad Serbs" and what they did to " the poor Bosnian & Kosovo Muslims" is like listening to Nero fiddle while Rome burned.
You mean Fikret Abdic's followers here.
Many had to leave simply because the war created chaos and economic devastation - only some - the politically correct - were given most help and opportunity to sit out the war and receive housing, aid, schooling, jobs.
The ones who had to stay and endure the wars or lived in refugee camps for years (the Serbs) had it the worst.
Serbs had 250,000 refugees driven from Croatia in just 3 days. (They had hundreds of thousands more driven from their homes in Bosnia during the war - but they were ALLOWED to come to Germany in those numbers.) They didn't have time to pack their bags, get on an airplane and being given apartments and homes and all sorts of help from host countries.
The Serbs had more refugees and displaced people but weren't accepted in Germany, Austria, the U.S. etc in those numbers. They had it harder to get out, and only in smaller batches - many thousands are still languishing in refugee camps - some for as many as 15 years (since 1991) - and many of these are elderly people.
The people in this story only were accepted years later - and it might have been a trap, as DTA said. The U.S. waiting until they settled, had their kids in school, jobs and some money saved up - now all their property is probably going to be taken or liquidated to pay for lawyers and court costs.
Serbia-Montenegro has remained the European country with the most refugees, the UN refugee agency said Monday.
Although the number of refugees has diminished dramatically, the issue of refugees remains a major problem in Serbia-Montenegro, the Belgrade office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) said in a statement to mark World Refugee Day, which falls on Monday.
Ten years ago, there were half a million refugees in Serbia- Montenegro, and currently the population of registered refugees is near 150,000, the statement said.
It said the Sarajevo declaration should be honored. According to the declaration, Serbia-Montenegro, Croatia and Bosnia- Herzegovina should resolve the problem of refugees in their respective countries by the end of 2006.
Serbian Commissioner for Refugees Dragisa Dabetic has said that Serbia would try to resolve the problem of refugees mostly through the process of their integration into the local environment or their returning to their homes in Croatia or Bosnia-Herzegovina.
(walks away, laughing...)
God yes! What was I thinking???!!!!
Serbia wanted to extend lebensraum? WTH you are talking about? .
If you compare ethnic makeup of Yugoslavia 1941 (prior Hitler), 1945(after), 1991(prior breakup) and today, it is evident that the Serbs were pushed out from their homeland in Croatia, Bosnia and occupied Serbian province of Kosovo.
Your comparrison of Serbs with Nazis is the real problem of your posts - Nazi revisionism.
One more thing. During WWII, USAAF bombed Germany but suffered horrible casualty of 50%. It was not free turkey shooting of civilians. It was accepted cost of waging war.
In 1999, 19 NATO countries gang raped Serbia and murdered her citizens (not only Serbs) without any real riskto flight crews. NATO was not waging war, it was "humanitarian intervention"
Unlike allied command in WWII, NATO did not admit that citizens of Serbian cities are the prinicipal target although they were, as numbers show (5000+ killed and maimed civilians, 1000 killed and maimed soldiers, 14 tanks destroyed.)
As I said before, you attempt to falsify history and equate Serbs with Nazis.
Yeah. Either prayer rugs, or the special clothes they will make dhimmis wear!!!!
And one of Bushes worst was prosocuting Serbs for killing mislims he should have given them medals.
The highest reliable number I've seen is ~102,000. It includes everyone, from all three sides; civilian and military casualties.
You know, a$$hole, I am sick of your equating the Serbs with the Nazi scum. I find your insinuations disgusting and way out of line. At first I thought you were misinformed and then that you're slightly retarded. Now I am pretty sure you're a malicious, hateful cretin. Rest assured, the Admin will be notified.
You'll make an excellent Dhimmi.
The Nazis wanted to create "Lebensraum" (Living space) for the uebermenschen. The Serbs wanted to push people out of their home and property for the exact same motive. The Nazis operated camps and in a deliberate and systematic fashion, state sponsored, exterminated people they deemed lesser. Serbia in a deliberate and systematic fashion, state sponsored and condoned, fully knowledgeable of its actions did the same thing. From the top down, Serbia like Nazi Germany was in violation of some of the most basic and fundamental concepts of what international law has been about for 400 years, long before any court in the Hague even existed!
The comparisons of Serbia to Nazi Germany are 100% spot on, although no doubt Germany was far worse in magnitude. Maybe thats why it hurts so badly and you have no argument other than personal attacks.
Which is why the Dhimmis bravely trash the Serbs here on Free Republic. What marvels of intestinal fortitude you are!
Completely untrue! Serbia remains the most multi-ethnic nation in the Balkans. The Serbs were fighting against being pushed out of their own homes, as any non-Dhimmi would have done.
["you now want to redefine what this somehow means."]
Nope, I'm not redefining anything. Like I said in my previous post, my (earlier) comment went over your head.
Now, why don't you answer my question: Can you explain to me why Carla del Ponte is appealing the TWO year sentence given to Oric by the international court? Remember, the prosecution asked that Oric get eighteen years.
After the break up of YU, the Serbs had the tanks. They had the MIGs. They had the artillery, the air defense, the officers.......
They were the aggressors; they didn't stop even after they were warned repeatedly because they were creating an international humanitarian disaster with their actions. Truth is, what finally got the Europeans to push for NATO involvement was no higher moral cause, but rather a refugee crisis and conflict which showed signs of spreading into other areas.
Today, some, in order to feel better about themselves, or blinded by pure super nationalistic fervor (Another similarity with the Nazi) want to rewrite history in a way that is more palatable to them. It was the Serbs that were calling the shots. Saying the Serbs are the victims is like saying Germany was attacked by Poland in WWII (Another similarity "The false rationalization) and that the Germans were the victims.
Youre attempting to turn the world on its head. It wont work. Too many people saw first hand what happened. The Germans, Italians, Brits, no one is arguing with you today since this issue is largely surpassed by more pressing stories, but within the political establishment, ALL know who the culprit was. I was in Germany at the time of the conflict in the Balkans with the DoD. I personally can remember the refugee camps the Germans set up to deal with the chaos created by the Serbs. Today you deny it happened and even want to portray Serbia as the victim. Sorry, wont happen.
No matter how many fake NATO websites you create that spew Serb propaganda, from the court in the Hague, to the international political establishment, you have branded yourselves with something on par with the Nazi. Your denial of what happened does not help you. It makes you look only worse. Abu Gharib happened. Even Rumsfeld whom I admire admits to what happened there. In interviews he will openly say that this was probably one of the low points in his career, and he had in reality nothing to do with it! I served in Iraq and support the mission there 100%. But I will not deny that at Abu Gharib Iraqis were abused. If you as a people want to get any respect, then you must take responsibility for the mess you made, not deny it. Denying it only makes you look like the Nazi war criminal who also denied it after the war. Its like Clinton who said I didnt inhale or I did not have sex with that woman. After the DNA on that dress, several witnesses, etc, no matter what he says, the facts speak for themselves. Likewise, the events surrounding the Balkan intervention are well documented.
You had UN observers, EU representatives, NATO soldiers from various countries .etc. Were they all conspiring and collaborating to come up with a fake story? Investigations by the international tribunal, sworn testimony, the international media And all you do is deny deny deny and make counter accusations. Kind of like the Holocaust denier, but as we know, you guys dont like any correlation to the Nazis or WWII.
An example: Some time ago I debated with what I am fairly sure was a Serb. He tried telling me about all the US planes that were allegedly shot down during the conflict and how we didnt score the kills we did. I asked him, what about the tail numbers which we record on our planes? The HUD tapes? AWACS which is watching and has an international crew?........etc He just kept denying and denying that we had shot down the MIG29s we did. He was quoting huge losses on our side, which he could not back with any credible source. He made an ass of himself.
Likewise, many of the atrocities committed are at this point a matter of fact. At this point, you have 48 senior Serb figures (political and military) who have served time for crimes you say never happened. But we all know, the prisons are full of innocent people; just ask any one of them.
You're embarassing yourself all over this thread. It would probably be best for yourself, and everyone else, if you just stayed away from the BALKANS threads. Your time would be better spent doing some research instead of this display of crapping in public you're performing here. Reading your posts on this subject is like listening to a little kid with a first grade education give a lecture on Italian Neo-Realism cinema after a life filled with eating lead paint chips.
["You're embarassing yourself (Red6) all over this thread."]
Lots of facts, great post!
I think you mean the Serbs are misrepresented as genocidal maniacs, which is really what islamic facists are. All peaceful, civilized cultures have suffered enough by the hands of islamic fascists (some more than others). I was merely making a point that history has shown that extreme measures are needed to deal with nationally organized genocidal psycopathic cultures. Historically retarded revisionist fools refer to the events at Dresden and Hiroshima as "war crimes", but they were absolutely necessary in order to suppress the evil of the axis powers in WWII. Islamic facism is actually worse, in some regards, and must be stopped from gaining any form of viable N.B.C. weapons capability.
Another example: http://www.un.org/icty/glance/hadzihasanovic.htm (Ill make your case for you)
So obviously in this case, the French, Dutch, and Madagascaran, judges were bought right? They were part of a plot against the Serbs?
You guys are getting old. All you do is deny and make counter accusations, create arguments that are full of conspiracies (We already learned from one of you "experts" that the Balkan crisis was all about the oil! lol) logical fallacies and personal attacks. But no substance, none what so ever.
I give up. You win.