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To: Red6
>>>>>>>Much of what you write is folklore mixed with half truths<<<<<<<

I do not know what to make out of your post. Either you are uninformed or hope that I do not have firm command of the facts. The both are regrettable and inefficient.

Following the logic of your post, even Hitler is inocent because also did not kill anyone with his own hands, just like Von Braun.

Here are some of your esteemed Nazis who got free owing to U.S. agencies:

In January, 1951, John J. McCloy announced that Alfried Krupp and eight members of his board of directors who had been convicted with him, were to be released. His property, valued at around 45 million, and his numerous companies were also restored to him.

Others that McCloy decided to free included Friedrich Flick, one of the main financial supporters of Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). During the Second World War Flick became extremely wealthy by using 48,000 slave labourers from SS concentration camps in his various industrial enterprises. It is estimated that 80 per cent of these workers died as a result of the way they were treated during the war. His property was restored to him and like Krupp became one of the richest men in Germany.

McCloy's decision was very controversial. Eleanor Roosevelt wrote to McCloy to ask: "Why are we freeing so many Nazis? The Washington Post published a Herb Block cartoon depicting a smiling McCloy opening Krupp's cell door, while in the background Joseph Stalin is shown taking a photograph of the event. Telford Taylor, who took part in the prosecution of the Nazi war criminals wrote: "Wittingly or not, Mr. McCloy has dealt a blow to the principles of international law and concepts of humanity for which we fought the war." Alfried Krupp was one of the top CONVICTED war criminals.

I did not speak about Von Karajan or Von Braun. I spoke about tens of top Nazi scientists from V1 and V2 program.

In Penemunde Von Braun and his Nazi pals destroyed up to 20 000 slave laborers.

ARTUR RUDOLPH was investigated and stripped of U.S. citizenship in 1984 because of war crimes committed during V2 project. He lived comfortable life for 40 years.

Here is FBI file:"

I do not apreciate the tone of your post. You may accuse me till the cow come home but you can not change the facts that top Nazis escaped justice owing to the U.S.

26 posted on 12/18/2006 8:13:50 PM PST by DTA (Mr. President., Condy is asleep at the wheel !)
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Again, where is your concrete argument reference von Braun? Nothing, thank you. And you did intend to construct the typical BS argument that one hears so often.

Tell me specifically what von Braun did that constitutes a war crime?

All you do is bla bla bla. Never do you construct an argument that ties von Braun to a war crime, because you CAN NOT. Shear association does not make one a war criminal. Just like no one is saying anyone who was in the Serb Army is a criminal. However, there were a few that did do bad things, and they do deserve to be prosecuted once identified.

I quote you, ****“Nazi scientists were brought in bulk under Paperclip program. American space program was led by people who worked P.O.W.'s to death. (Nazi rockets were lablled V1, V2, American was labelled SaturnV, go figure).”**** Your own words. Who were you insinuating? Von Braun.

Different people got different sentences because they did different things. Some got nothing, and there was no national interest at stake for letting them off. What did Karajan have that we needed? He was a card carrying NAZI party member. But did he commit any crime? Association alone is not enough.

So, in your previous post you attempt to argue with “guilt by association”. In this last post your reasoning took you down the road of arguing with the “straw man”.

“Following the logic of your post, even Hitler is innocent because also did not kill anyone with his own hands, just like Von Braun. “ You wrote

Many of the war criminals of WWII evaded justice. This was not because of a deliberate intent of the US, rather the inability to determine who the bad players were, many slipping out and going to places like Argentina or Switzerland. Many in the most senior positions committing some of the gravest crimes were known, such as Eichman. However, the names of the machine gunners who gunned down 4,000 POW in Dachau as machine gun practice, those people are forgotten in history and no one was going to volunteer that information on themselves. Those that committed these crimes after the war didn’t jump up and yell, “HELLO, yes I was the one who cut down hundreds just to practice my skills on that MG42.” In fact, there were many cases where years later the US forces identified individuals with a questionable past who had been working for them in Germany and they were not high level scientists. No one was a NAZI when the war was over, and they all claimed that they fought the Russians. Many from the SS had strange scars in place of a tattoo. There was also an issue with the shear volume of people you’re dealing with. Documents were destroyed, people kept their secrets, there were millions of people to deal with, many of the victims were dead, many of the bad guys fled, and you didn’t have modern capabilities to sort the shear volumes of data. Just think of the shear MILLIONS of people that were moving because of the displacement of boarders, POW returning etc. Germany was occupied by several nations, not just the US. I assure you; many war criminals got off or were identified years later not because of a systemic intent, but rather because of the overall situation.

Do you realize that the case of Arthur Rudolf which you reference MAKES MY POINT?

Too many in the US even today, a German in WWII is synonymous with NAZI. That’s not the case. But even so, the NAZI party had OVER 8.5 million members (1 in 6 German adults). As I attempted to explain before, if you were going to be a “somebody” you had to join. While amoral and most surly were knowledgeable at least to a large degree of the evil this party was involved with, most of these members did not personally do anything for which you can call them a war criminal.

Arthur Rudolf once he returned to Germany in the mid 80’s didn’t even get prosecuted by the Germans because there was inadequate evidence of wrong doing. Like the conspiracy theories of the US knowing about the imminent attack on Pearl Harbor, this argument of “We let NAZI war criminals off the hook that worked for us” BS keeps surfacing. Truth is, Arthur Rudolf more or less “settled” this issue and left the US and renounced his US citizenship on our request. He was never found guilty of anything and most likely never would have been (But this is speculation). He feared for his safety and we didn’t want the mess, so he left. It’s pathetic when you have to resort to something like this in an attempt to make your point.

**** BTW - I suggest you read your own link to the FBI record since it’s rather amusing that you post a link that has a bunch of American colleagues saying what a great guy he was and nothing incriminating in it! ****
However, I will even “somewhat” agree with you. The laws of man are imperfect, and those who apply these laws are imperfect as well. This is true even today as it was in 1946 when Europe was a mess. But the statement that the US shielded NAZI war criminals is largely folklore. It’s one of those frequently repeated statements that when you press people for real tangibles ends up empty handed. Just like the theory that we were aware of Pearl Harbor before it happened, or that the bomb need not be dropped; this argument that you propose is usually presented in conjuction with another agenda, but is hollow when it comes to facts.

29 posted on 12/18/2006 10:00:43 PM PST by Red6 (Weird thoughts -)
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