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David Irving: Jews should ask themselves why they are hated
Haaretz ^ | December 23, 2006 | Amiram Barkat

Posted on 12/23/2006 1:58:30 PM PST by West Coast Conservative

Holocaust denier David Irving on Friday said Jews should ask themselves why they have been hated throughout history.

"They [Jews] should ask themselves the question, 'Why have they been so hated for 3000 years that there has been pogrom after pogrom in country after country?', said Irving, speaking at a press conference he convened in England on Friday, a day after he was released from an Austrian prison.

Irving, who was sentenced to three years in prison for denying the Holocaust, was released last week after his appeal was granted.

Asked if he sees himself as anti-Semitic, Irving said, "No, I like to think I am not."

But immediately following his answer, Irving expressed his support for Mel Gibson's comments that "The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world."

Irving also took pride in the success of his books and claimed that he the fortune he made from sales of his biography on World War II German General Erwin Rommel enabled him to walk into a car showroom with a paper bag stuffed with cash to buy a "Nigger brown Rolls-Royce."

Irving's comments aroused great anger within Britain's Jewish community.

Lord Janner, president of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said Irving's release was "unwarranted" and that Irving's "latest comments were totally to be expected and should be totally ignored."

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Israel
KEYWORDS: antijew; antisemitism; davidirving; hatespeech; holocaust; irving; nazi; racist; stuckonstupid
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1 posted on 12/23/2006 1:58:33 PM PST by West Coast Conservative
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To: West Coast Conservative

David Irving should ask his parents if he was repeatedly dropped on his head as a child.


2 posted on 12/23/2006 2:04:55 PM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
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To: West Coast Conservative
The Jews are so hated, they even hate themselves. I suppose Josephs brothers really liked him when they threw him in a pit and sold him into slavery though. /sarcasm

Why indeed?

3 posted on 12/23/2006 2:05:05 PM PST by rawcatslyentist (When true genius appears, know him by this sign: all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.)
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To: West Coast Conservative

Perhaps the Jews should consider the motto "Oderint, dum metuant."


4 posted on 12/23/2006 2:08:24 PM PST by magslinger (An open mind is like an outhouse. Sooner or later someone is going to fill it.)
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To: West Coast Conservative

It's completely stupid that this guy should have been imprisoned for three years for freedom of speech:

If instead he'd been allowed to wonder around expressing his views, someone may have shot him in the head by now, putting him out of his deranged misery and doing society a huge favor.


5 posted on 12/23/2006 2:09:37 PM PST by baa39 (Merry Christmas!)
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To: West Coast Conservative

Jimmy Carter is a bigger anti-semite than Michael Irving.


6 posted on 12/23/2006 2:10:16 PM PST by LdSentinal
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To: cripplecreek
David Irving should ask his parents if he was repeatedly dropped on his head as a child.

Not often enough, and from insufficient height.

7 posted on 12/23/2006 2:11:33 PM PST by dighton
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To: West Coast Conservative

The Jews are hated because many of them are generally better than alot of other people. They have comprised most of the greatest beings in the history of the world. Therefore, people are very jealous of them and want to get rid of them.

Mr. Irving must be very jealous because he knows that he is a hopeless retard. Why must God keep letting these types of people exist? sigh


8 posted on 12/23/2006 2:18:38 PM PST by Soothesayer (Birth is murder!)
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To: West Coast Conservative

I always thought its because some people dont like bagels


9 posted on 12/23/2006 2:20:44 PM PST by woofie (For some people self hatred may be justified)
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To: West Coast Conservative

Ignoring this fellow's obvious issues of bias and anger, what is the answer to that question? Certainly, Jews, more than any other group, have been the target of prejudice and hatred. Why is that? Why should this one group be the subject of so much hostility?


10 posted on 12/23/2006 2:24:04 PM PST by Continental Soldier
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To: West Coast Conservative
They [Jews] should ask themselves the question, 'Why have they been so hated for 3000 years that there has been pogrom after pogrom in country after country? The answer to that one is easy for anyone who has read the Bible passage where Moses is shown the Burning Bush. That has turned out to be, perhaps, the most prophetic passage of the Bible. The Jews exist to serve G-d and keep his word. The price of that is that they will constantly be tested in a variety of ways--ranging from obstracism to genocide. Even the "Golden Ages" that Jews enjoy from time to time (like the one they have experienced in America) are a test of sorts. It becomes oh-so-easy to blend in, become secular, and forget your faith. This is why there are so few Jews, even though they have been around so long. Like the Marines, the Jews will always be the few and the proud. Unlike them, they will enjoy little glory--on Earth at least.
11 posted on 12/23/2006 2:26:08 PM PST by rbg81 (1)
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To: West Coast Conservative

I won't deny the holocaust but his question: why have the Jews been hated for 3000 years is a fair one.
They have had a rather dificult time of it during that 3000 years.
And it hasn't all been mooselimbs.
Incidently I do support Israel, I just don't understand why Olmert is such a patsy girlie man, cept to say he is a lawyer. Israle better take out Irans nuke program or it will perish.


12 posted on 12/23/2006 2:26:50 PM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: Continental Soldier

The fact that they call themselves "The Chosen People" doesn't help. I think this arouses anger and jealousy in a lot of people--especially those who suspect it is true.


13 posted on 12/23/2006 2:27:53 PM PST by rbg81 (1)
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To: West Coast Conservative

This Irving guy is deliberately provocative, and (so far as I understand) he has been shown to sometimes get his facts wrong, but I fail to see why he was in jail to begin with. Also I think the suggestions here and elsewhere that he deserves violence for being a lying jerk are way, way off the mark. Treating his personality and veracity issues as though they are of a different and more critical type than say those of Michael Moore or of any number of Muslim firebrands is not good for our society and is, I believe, particularly harmful to Jews in the end. That David Irving gets thrown in jail for expressing opinions while Michael Moore and Mullah Whoever do not kinda supports at least part of his case.


14 posted on 12/23/2006 2:28:36 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: LdSentinal
Jimmy Carter is a bigger anti-semite than Michael Irving.

Is it worse to deny the holocaust and to be an anti-semite or to not deny the holocaust and to be an anti-semite anyway? I would think that the former because the denial of the holocaust is driven by blind hate.
Notwithstanding, Jimmy Carter is definitely an anti-semite like many on the left.
15 posted on 12/23/2006 2:29:44 PM PST by etradervic (Merry Christmas)
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To: West Coast Conservative

From another article linked in this one:

"Irving has contended that most of those who died at concentration camps like Auschwitz succumbed to diseases such as typhus rather than execution."


As if that would have made the Nazis blameless. The world would be so much better without garbage like this guy.


16 posted on 12/23/2006 2:30:29 PM PST by kenth (I wish compassionate conservatives were more compassionate to conservatism.)
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To: West Coast Conservative

As God and Jesus is hated by much of the world what is so unusual that Jews be treated the same way. They are His people so what is the problem? In a not so visible state, Christians are now hated and I am sure it is not going to get any easier.


17 posted on 12/23/2006 2:33:08 PM PST by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed.)
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To: rbg81

" This is why there are so few Jews, even though they have been around so long.'

The Holocaust didn't help.


18 posted on 12/23/2006 2:33:11 PM PST by gcruse (http://garycruse.blogspot.com/)
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To: magslinger
Perhaps the Jews should consider the motto "Oderint, dum metuant."


19 posted on 12/23/2006 2:33:12 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (This is my tagline. There are many like it but this one is mine.)
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To: baa39
"It's completely stupid that this guy should have been imprisoned for three years for freedom of speech:"

I think only the United States has a guaranteed right of free speech.

20 posted on 12/23/2006 2:33:31 PM PST by redhead (...frammin' at the jim-jam, frippin' at the krotz...)
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To: rbg81
The fact that they call themselves "The Chosen People" doesn't help. We Christians refer to ourselves as the "Saved" and the "People of God."
21 posted on 12/23/2006 2:34:15 PM PST by etradervic (Merry Christmas)
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To: Joe Boucher

"why have the Jews been hated for 3000 years?"

Someone once asked me that question and (as a non-Jew) the answer that occurred to me was not so much that they had been hated so much for so long, but that they had not died. Many goups throughout history (and doubtless during pre-history) were hated and, as a result, were wiped out by their hateful neighbors. What makes the Jews different is that, somehow, they have somehow managed to survive through these repeated "selections" without being completely extinguished. Everybody is hated by someone, so that the Jews are hated does not make them unique. That they survive their enemies may.


22 posted on 12/23/2006 2:34:38 PM PST by Stirner
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To: redhead

Even many Canadians I've spoken with seem to struggle with our concept of free speech. I say it makes the idiots easy to spot and keep an eye on them.


23 posted on 12/23/2006 2:37:35 PM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
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To: West Coast Conservative
Yes...it's the ALL the fault of the Jooooos. If only they would disappear....... /s
24 posted on 12/23/2006 2:37:36 PM PST by Dallas59 (Islam Should Not Be Allowed In Western Countries)
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To: Continental Soldier; West Coast Conservative

"Ignoring this fellow's obvious issues of bias and anger, what is the answer to that question? Certainly, Jews, more than any other group, have been the target of prejudice and hatred. Why is that? Why should this one group be the subject of so much hostility?"

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Perhaps, like the distorted rates of gain calculated for mutual funds (ignoring the ones that crashed and burned in earlier periods, and attending only to the ones that are still in operation), this sense that the Jews are "more than any other group" victims is just another case of "survivor bias" ( http://www.savantcapital.com/sbiasstudy/ )?

There are plenty of groups that are "no longer available to kick around" because previous generations of persecutors completely exterminated them. Several are recorded in the Bible, and the histories of American native tribes include several that are completely gone, just like the Tasmaninian aborigines were completely eliminated by the European settlers of Australia.

Like the old Timex watch, the Jews have had many a licking but they just "keep on ticking" (while their enemies tend to be among the groups that disappear completely from the scene, at least as persisting cultures, after taking their "best licks", e.g. the Edomites). You would think the adversaries could get a clue after while, but apparently not.


25 posted on 12/23/2006 2:37:50 PM PST by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: West Coast Conservative

They have been a blessing to every nation that has ever harbored them.

Can't say the same about the haters. Most of their countries are horror-shows.


26 posted on 12/23/2006 2:37:54 PM PST by marron
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To: Continental Soldier

God said that they would.


27 posted on 12/23/2006 2:38:17 PM PST by Dallas59 (Islam Should Not Be Allowed In Western Countries)
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To: West Coast Conservative

This guy is making Jimmy Carter's argument in a way even Liberals can see through. Irving, like Carter, believes the victims are to blame and that those victims have no right to self-defense. As their logic goes, Israel is wrong because it won't allow its enemies to destroy it. In essence, Carter and Irving and Gibson are public relations enablers for those who actually carry out the slaughter; they provide the sophistries and muddle-minded logic that sways other weak-minded morally bankrupt worms. The MSM and DNC do much the same thing for the so-called Iraqi "insurgents" as well.


28 posted on 12/23/2006 2:38:22 PM PST by elhombrelibre (Free Syria and Iraq, Lebanon, and Israel will all be secure.)
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To: rbg81
The fact that they call themselves "The Chosen People" doesn't help.

They labeled themselves that, or did God?
29 posted on 12/23/2006 2:40:49 PM PST by kenth (I wish compassionate conservatives were more compassionate to conservatism.)
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To: Dallas59

It seems really simple, doesn't it? They're God's chosen people, therefore evil throughout the world will try to do away with them.


30 posted on 12/23/2006 2:42:50 PM PST by kenth (I wish compassionate conservatives were more compassionate to conservatism.)
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To: Joe Boucher
I won't deny the holocaust but his question: why have the Jews been hated for 3000 years is a fair one.

People are most often stereotyped or judged as a group. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Hells Angels, Baptists......... Consequently, when you belong to a group that collectively exhibits certain characteristics, you are judged by them.

Without going back in history, let's look at Jews today. They are generally successful, educated, resourceful, tenacious and some people say obnoxious, but they certainly exhibit far better social statistics than most of their peers.

So why do so many people hate them? I'm not sure, but I'd guess jealousy plays a pretty big part. Don't forget that much of the world hates us Americans too, even though we see ourselves as pretty good folk.

31 posted on 12/23/2006 2:43:19 PM PST by umgud (I love NASCAR as much as the Democrats hate Bush)
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To: Alouette; SJackson

Ping


32 posted on 12/23/2006 2:43:20 PM PST by elhombrelibre (Free Syria and Iraq, Lebanon, and Israel will all be secure.)
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To: Joe Boucher

==I won't deny the holocaust but his question: why have the Jews been hated for 3000 years is a fair one. ==

Only because you are west-oriented. In the east it is the immigrant Chinese, the "jews of the east". Try "The Economics and Politics of Race" by Thomas Sowell" if you want to know why the Jews are hated in the west and the Chinese in the east.


33 posted on 12/23/2006 2:43:53 PM PST by bkepley
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To: West Coast Conservative
Everyone is jealous and envious of the enormous contributions of all the Jews to science, medicine, business, finance, the arts, etc.

They're also jealous of matzoh ball soup, bagels, bialys and noodle kugel. Don't even get me started about gefilte fish and kreplach. Oi vey. Not to mention Henny Youngman.
34 posted on 12/23/2006 2:44:38 PM PST by garyhope (It's World War IV, right here, right now courtesy of Islam.)
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To: elhombrelibre

"This guy is making Jimmy Carter's argument in a way even Liberals can see through. Irving, like Carter, believes the victims are to blame and that those victims have no right to self-defense. As their logic goes, Israel is wrong because it won't allow its enemies to destroy it."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1746083/posts
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=26045

Their logic is "advocacy for funding", and both have been "well paid".


35 posted on 12/23/2006 2:46:18 PM PST by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: kenth

Those that protect Israel will be blessed by God. Makes me think that's the only reason why we're still here.


36 posted on 12/23/2006 2:46:35 PM PST by Dallas59 (Islam Should Not Be Allowed In Western Countries)
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To: Soothesayer
The Jews are hated because many of them are generally better than alot of other people. They have comprised most of the greatest beings in the history of the world. Therefore, people are very jealous of them and want to get rid of them.

I don't know if you're Jewish or not but as I scrolled down the list I was hoping someone would post exactly your sentiment.

I am a Gentile lady but have worked for many Jewish-owned companies in my life. They know how to run a business and are tough. Hey, I like tough. If you want a charity to give you stuff for free, look up Salvation Army in the phone book.

Have you or anyone reading this thread ever been exposed to jealous people? And there is a difference between jealousy and envy. An envious person does not want to destroy the object of its envy but instead will strive to achieve the same thing or result that caused the original envy.

A jealous person will try to outright DESTROY the object of its hideous and purposeless jealousy. Destroy it and get it out of their sight that their own shortcomings are less obvious.

At times I consider it almost the difference between good and evil.

The Muslims are prime, PRIME I tell you, to inculcate with a pervasive and soul-destroying sense of jealousy. While they have enormous oil wealth, most of those mideast countries have a destitute populace, virtually unemployed and hardly productive. A very few of their populace controls almost all the oil wealth, consider the Sauds in Saudi Arabia.

In order to deflect this resentment of a hopeless life and possible jealousy of their own mean leaders who hog all the money for themselves, the Muslims blame Israel, via rich Imams etc, ...blame Israel, blame Israel.

What, you don't think the rest of this planet is JEALOUS of America? THAT'S what the so-called hatred of America is all about. And we've got some liberals who want to bring America DOWN (witness Kyoto or Global warming, anything to tie our hand behind our backs) in order to keep the world from resenting us for what they could very well have if their leaders would give it to them.

Irving, heh, what a boob.

37 posted on 12/23/2006 2:46:44 PM PST by Fishtalk (http://patfish.blogspot.com)
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To: rbg81

They don't call themselves the Chosen, but God calls them that. God is entitled to his favorites just like you and me.


38 posted on 12/23/2006 2:47:08 PM PST by ruthles (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean people aren't out to get you.)
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To: gcruse

I think the "genocide" part factors that in.


39 posted on 12/23/2006 2:50:01 PM PST by rbg81 (1)
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To: West Coast Conservative
Jews should ask themselves why they are hated

Well, some of them can be pretty obnoxious but I have always attributed that to the fact that they were from New York City. :-)

40 posted on 12/23/2006 2:50:06 PM PST by Polybius
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To: Continental Soldier
Ignoring this fellow's obvious issues of bias and anger, what is the answer to that question? Certainly, Jews, more than any other group, have been the target of prejudice and hatred. Why is that? Why should this one group be the subject of so much hostility?

I am sure there are many opinions but here is my take.

1. The Jews project an appearance of a lack of a sense of nationality.
Jewish Americans, Jewish Germans,or Jewish anything are perceived to be American Jews and German Jews etc. Not a part of the society but living within it.

2. Jews are a successful group within the societies they live in, and this brings jealousy and resentment on them. They are disproportunately represented at the top level of our Government and in the liberal media

3. They know that goy societies are not going to give them any extra help,and are in fact prejudiced against them, so they have to make it on their own, and are so motivated to succeed.

4. Jews don't go around trying to convert people to Judaism so their numbers can only grow by birthing. So they will always be a minority and suffer the slings and arrows of the majority.

5. Most of the people the Jews come in contact with are Christians and Muslims which IMHO are heretical outgrowths of Judaism, which would tend to make the Christians and Moslems look down on the Jews who missed the message of Christ and Mohammed.

6. They are big supporters of socialism which tends to turn conservatives against them.

Fire away- tom

41 posted on 12/23/2006 2:50:35 PM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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To: West Coast Conservative

People like David Irving are dangerous. We had the same fake scholarship in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and it led to the concentration camps. These people should not be taken likely. They're dangerous to Israel and the U.S.


42 posted on 12/23/2006 2:52:12 PM PST by popdonnelly
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To: popdonnelly

likely = lightly


43 posted on 12/23/2006 2:55:14 PM PST by popdonnelly
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To: etradervic
They are among "God's chosen" and technically I believe Christians are within this, as well. But the fact of the matter is that we all have the option of choosing to be followers of God, based on whether we follow his laws or not.

As a Catholic, nothing seems to rankle folks of a different denominational persuasion than the part of our creed which states "one Holy Catholic and Apostolic church".

I'd like to think that if I were a member of a different church that I wouldn't get so bent out of shape about how others refer to themselves; "the Chosen". "People of God", "the elect", "the select". These are people who believe in God and proclaim the titles as a testament to their faith. The more challenging part is living up to those titles no matter what the faith or denomination.
44 posted on 12/23/2006 2:59:12 PM PST by incredulous joe ("My career was sputtering until I did a 360 and got headed in the right direction." Tracy McGrady)
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To: Capt. Tom
1. The Jews project an appearance of a lack of a sense of nationality. Jewish Americans, Jewish Germans,or Jewish anything are perceived to be American Jews and German Jews etc. Not a part of the society but living within it.

That one is way, way out of date. These days, American Jews are as American as apple pie, and identify themselves as American, first and foremost, and are viewed that way. At least that is my perception.

Jew hatred is at a very low ebb on the fruited plain these days. America just keeps getting better, and better. JMO.

45 posted on 12/23/2006 2:59:35 PM PST by Torie
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To: incredulous joe

I heard an Anglican priest in the Church of the Knights Templar (or some such name, that got some notoriety in the DeVinci Code tale) located in the law quadrangle of London across from the Royal Courts, refer to the Anglican Church as her majesty's Catholic Church, the reformed Catholic Church. That give me a bit of a start. :)


46 posted on 12/23/2006 3:04:10 PM PST by Torie
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek

I'm sure they're well compensated for their views, but I don't doubt the sincerity of their contempt and disdain for Jews and Israel.


47 posted on 12/23/2006 3:04:25 PM PST by elhombrelibre (Free Syria and Iraq, Lebanon, and Israel will all be secure.)
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To: rbg81

I seem to remember that the Bible called them the chosen people.


48 posted on 12/23/2006 3:10:59 PM PST by SALChamps03
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To: kenth

If I remember correctly, there is a passage in the Old Testament that says, "These are my chosen people, and I am the Lord."


49 posted on 12/23/2006 3:13:30 PM PST by abclily
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To: West Coast Conservative
Irving is not trustworthy on any point of history. He is simply so dishonest that he is useless as a historian and it is not only about the holocaust.

Lying About Hitler: History, Holocaust, and the David Irving Trial

"..While many people agree that Irving may have a bee in his bonnet about the Holocaust, they say his other work is valuable. Evans helpfully deflates that view with a chapter on Irving's book on the Destruction of Dresden. Whereas most scholars suggest that at most 40-50,000 people died in the firebombing of the city, Irving has suggested that up to a quarter of a million may have died. How did he do this? Well, without any real evidence he took one estimate of 40,000 and argued that the assessor had just dropped a "1" at the beginning in response to Soviet pressure. His source for a total of 200-250,000 amount to little more than fifth-hand hearsay of a document that had been excerpted, transcribed, transcribed again and copied, and which was a fraud in the first place. Evans points out that Irving tried to exaggerate the number of people in Dresden by cited 1.25 million ration cards, except that the British had previously dropped thousands of ration cards in order to muck up the Nazi bureaucracy. And, oh yes, Evans points out that Irving ignores or minimizes contemporary German documents that show that the death total was about the tenth of his estimate. All in all, this is a very useful book, one that should help demolish the reputation of a most overrated and sinister figure. .."

50 posted on 12/23/2006 3:17:05 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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