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The Re-Primitivization of the World
Jihad Watch ^ | December 31, 2006 | Hugh Fitzgerald

Posted on 12/31/2006 8:12:14 PM PST by quidnunc

As Saddam was being hung, the voices of several of those present in the room were heard crying out. They didn't cry out "a bicameral legislature!" They didn't cry out "checks and balances, for god's sake let us have checks and balances." They didn't cry out "we want a government of limited powers." No, they cried out "Moqtada al-Sadr, Moqtada al-Sadr."

Amurath an Amurath succeeds.

And will, until it is realized that people suffused with the tenets and attitudes of Islam are not interested in Western parliamentary democracy. Nor are they interested in guarantees of the rights of minorities and especially of the individual, or in the Spirit of Liberty, which is defined by Learned Hand as the spirit that is "not quite sure that it is right." Try to imagine a Muslim Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Madison, James Wilson, Clay or Webster or Calhoun or John Randolph of Roanoke, Lincoln, or for that matter a Muslim John Marshall, a Muslim Louis Brandeis, a Muslim Oliver Wendell Holmes. You can't. And you know why.

And unless, and until, the Camp of Infidels understands that it must not only understand, but make its constant theme, the connection between those assorted amuraths and the politico-religio-legal system of Islam, that refuses to locate legitimacy in the will of mere mortals, all of them rightfully slaves of Allah, and that urges submission to the ruler, no matter how despotic, as long as he is declared to be a Muslim, you never will be able to imagine such creatures. They will continue to be chimerical as long as the connection between the inshallah-fatalism of Islam and the economic backwardness, despite the OPEC trillions, of Muslim lands (where the only real economies are found, in some form, in those countries where Islam has been constrained — as in Turkey or Tunisia) continues to go unnoticed. And the connection between the social failures, the moral failures, the intellectual failures, of Muslim societies must be connected to the doctrines, the teachings, the attitudes, the atmospherics of Islam. The case for such a connection is overwhelming. It will not be easy to deny it, and at the very least, the world's Infidels will see that connection, and so will the most advanced people born into Islam. It will put Islam permanently on the defensive among its own adherents, who will indeed begin to wonder why their countries have a series of despots succeeded by other despots, why their countries are so naturally violent in their politics, why they are, despite such oil revenues, unable or unwilling to create advanced economies, why their societies, so hostile to non-Muslims and to women, will remain estranged from the rest of the world as that world passes them by, and why the habit of mental submission encouraged by Islam will always prevent them from the enterprise of science, or from all else that requires the encouragement, and not the punishment, of free and skeptical inquiry.

-snip-


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bigotbait; culturalrelativity; geopolitics; iraq; rebuildingiraq; revisionisthistory; secularism
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1 posted on 12/31/2006 8:12:15 PM PST by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc
"..And the connection between the social failures, the moral failures, the intellectual failures, of Muslim societies must be connected to the doctrines, the teachings, the attitudes, the atmospherics of Islam..."

More than a religion of Peace, it is a religion of Failure!! Moqtada al-Sadr looks like someone who should be picking a Banjo instead of preaching.!

2 posted on 12/31/2006 8:19:03 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Saddam killed Millions of innocents. And failed to do something right in nearly 30 years of rule: Killing Moqtada al-Sadr. He killed all of his family, but tried to bribe Moqtada...

What difference would have a dead Mookie done to the Millions of slaughtered Iraqis, Kuwaitis and Iranians? Nothing.

What differnce would hae a dead Mookie done to post-war Iraq?
Everything.

Sadr has to die.


3 posted on 12/31/2006 8:25:01 PM PST by SolidWood (Sadr lives. Kill him.)
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To: quidnunc
why they are, despite such oil revenues, unable or unwilling to create advanced economies

I've heard many Leftists say that America is nothing special -- just lucky. We stumbled on a land that was rich in resources, and -- voila! -- we are now rich and powerful. All because of an accident of history.

BS.

The Native Americans were here first and they did squat with the abundant resources. Likewise, the Arabs have been getting rich off oil for decades, and have precious little to show for it. Manufacturing? Software? Medicine? Anything? Naaaaah -- they just have oil.

Some cultures are better than others. Islam is one of the worst. It holds back a billion people.

4 posted on 12/31/2006 8:28:14 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: SolidWood

He should have had an accident a couple of years ago.


5 posted on 12/31/2006 8:29:39 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Anti-Bubba182

The irony is that Islam was once the most sophisticated an learned culture in the world. While we were wallowing in wattle and daub muslims were building great centers of learning. Something went terribly awry in Islam. Now Islam has become a synonym for violent, mindless reaction and corruption.


6 posted on 12/31/2006 8:31:14 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: quidnunc

What is "Amurath"?


7 posted on 12/31/2006 8:34:19 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: Zack Nguyen

An Arab Horse?


8 posted on 12/31/2006 8:36:02 PM PST by SolidWood (Sadr lives. Kill him.)
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To: Zack Nguyen

Looked it up: Amurath is an outdated spelling of the muslim (turkish) name Murat. Don't know the meaning in this context though.


9 posted on 12/31/2006 8:38:34 PM PST by SolidWood (Sadr lives. Kill him.)
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To: quidnunc
And will, until it is realized that people suffused with the tenets and attitudes of Islam are not interested in Western parliamentary democracy

Realists tried to tell you this over three years ago. But nation building carried on. It's not just Islam, there are regions of the world that democracy is a foreign and unwanted idea. It has nothing to do with their intelligence, it has to do with the culture

the intellectual failures, of Muslim societies must be connected to the doctrines, the teachings, the attitudes, the atmospherics of Islam

Hugh doesn't read a lot of history does he? Islamic intellectual culture at one point in history was far more advanced than Western culture. Islamic cultures kept alive learning when other parts of the world were mucking about in the Dark Ages

10 posted on 12/31/2006 8:40:19 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: tomcorn
"The irony is that Islam was once the most sophisticated an learned culture in the world."

That was true until the Christian West freed itself from an Orthodoxy that surpressed science and individual choice. Islam got worse and paid the price. They are not getting better.

11 posted on 12/31/2006 8:40:29 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Zack Nguyen

Amurath is a an Arab insult...it refers to the Amurad Ottoman Sultans noted for their corrupt rule of Iraq,.


12 posted on 12/31/2006 8:41:22 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: Anti-Bubba182

That is an insult to banjo pickers. Moqtada al-Sadr looks like someone that would be sitting on a curb downtown with a bagged bottle of MD 20/20.


13 posted on 12/31/2006 8:41:48 PM PST by oyez (Why is it that egalitarians act like royalty?)
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To: tomcorn
It is a myth that Islam had a golden age in which it was advancing Human Learning, while the West was moving backward.

Islam had access to resources from Greeks, Romans, Chaldean Christians, and Indian Hindus and because of these non-Muslim resources, the Arabs were more advanced than the West during that period of time when the West was largely separated from these ancient resources.

But Islam did little with what it inherited. There were few actual advances made during this Islamic Golden Age.

And when the West re-claimed the classical learning the new era became proclaimed as the Renaissance. And we've been far ahead ever since.

14 posted on 12/31/2006 8:42:30 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

The further Irony is it was the borrowings from Arab science that allowed the west to shake off that crippling orthodoxy while somehow Islam took the opposite lesson and adopted the crippling orthodoxy the west rejected.


15 posted on 12/31/2006 8:44:19 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: tomcorn; SolidWood

Thank you very much.


16 posted on 12/31/2006 8:44:25 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: oyez

That too. I wouldn't want to get downwind of him either. In news video he is preaching in the Mosque under a ceiling fan. I bet those Mosques get ripe enough to make your eyes water.


17 posted on 12/31/2006 8:45:34 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: tomcorn; Anti-Bubba182; ClearCase_guy
"The irony is that Islam was once the most sophisticated an learned culture in the world."

Bull!

The Golden Age of Islam is a Myth

What Arab Civilization?

There is not part of Islam that is not a lie.

Hank

18 posted on 12/31/2006 8:52:30 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: ClearCase_guy
During the Middle Ages, the Muslim world was the very first to create hospitals for treating the sick. At a time when the "Renaissance" physicians were still bleeding people for every symptom, Muslim doctors were isolating patients and treating them with food and vitamins and actually healing them.

The Arab World in places like Dubai, Jordan, etc,, that are more moderate and less prone to the control of the extremists, there are many technological contributions that are being made. They aren't all the savages you make them out to be.
19 posted on 12/31/2006 8:53:02 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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To: quidnunc; Anti-Bubba182; ClearCase_guy; billbears
This is the reality of Islam portrayed in modern film...


20 posted on 12/31/2006 8:54:45 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: SolidWood; Zack Nguyen
It's from Henry IV, Part 2, 5:2:

KING HENRY V:

This new and gorgeous garment, majesty,
Sits not so easy on me as you think.
Brothers, you mix your sadness with some fear:
This is the English, not the Turkish court;
Not Amurath an Amurath succeeds,
But Harry Harry.

21 posted on 12/31/2006 8:56:05 PM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

ORCS !!!!!!


22 posted on 12/31/2006 8:56:51 PM PST by Candor7 (Into Liberal flatulance goes the best hope of the West, and who wants to be a smart feller?)
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To: tomcorn
That was never true. They stole a lot of stuff from the Indians (the numeric system, e.g.) and other advanced civilizations. That knowledge was temporarily cut off from the West by the collapse of Rome. But it returned fairly quickly and Europe ran with the ball.

Islam on the other hand got hold of the information centuries earlier but did nothing with it. Ever.

Also, the idea of "Dark Ages" was a Victorian construct. Things actually weren't as dark as they were painted by the Victorians, who loved to pigeonhole things. The Middle Ages were full of music, art, architecture, faith, love, chivalry -- even though a good deal of the knowledge of the Roman Empire was (temporarily) lost.

23 posted on 12/31/2006 8:59:26 PM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: ClearCase_guy

The Africans are sitting on incredible natural resources and yet their continent is the most impoverished on the face of the earth.

Just one of many examples.

The leftists are in denial about the fact that the United States of America is the most successful nation in the history of mankind. Why? Our system is comprised of a government of laws and not of men, a government checked and shackled by a Constitution and a Bill of Rights, a government of limited and well-defined powers. Our culture is centered around individual freedom and individual responsibility, and the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and property. And, our system is based on Judeo-Christian morals and ethics, regardless of what the historical revisionists may say.

We are a city on a hill; the whole world is watching us.

On the eve of a new year here in Northern Virginia, Reagan's words still ring true:

"And how stands the city on this winter night? More prosperous, more secure, and happier than it was eight years ago. But more than that; after 200 years, two centuries, she still stands strong and true on the granite ridge, and her glow has held steady no matter what storm. And she's still a beacon, still a magnet for all who must have freedom, for all the pilgrims from all the lost places who are hurtling through the darkness, toward home."


24 posted on 12/31/2006 8:59:30 PM PST by rabscuttle385 (Sic Semper Tyrannis * Allen for U.S. Senate in '08)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Thank you! I had no idea the word was that old.


25 posted on 12/31/2006 9:03:36 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: ClearCase_guy
But Islam did little with what it inherited. There were few actual advances made during this Islamic Golden Age

I know.

The early Muslims are credited with inventing distillation and could distil just about anything - from alcohol to perfume. Hygiene is very important in the Muslim world so they invented and manufactured soap - centuries before the West - and hundreds of bathhouses were built throughout Muslim cities. They understood the fundamentals of light and how we see, and gave us the camera obscura. They invented algebra and worked out the angle of the tilt of the earth. They built the first windmill, pioneered the concept of the crank rod, and designed the first ever torpedo. Muslim creativity also led to the invention of a unique instrument called the astrolabe – it could find the direction of Mecca, tell the time and, with the help of the stars, navigate you across deserts and oceans. But perhaps most important of all they pursued the cause of knowledge, translating and preserving the works of the ancients and building the world's largest libraries – their 'houses of wisdom'.
That's not a lot at all....

What the Ancients Did For Us

Much better we still be living in mud huts. Some myth....

26 posted on 12/31/2006 9:04:12 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: oyez
Moqtada al-Sadr looks like someone that would be sitting on a curb downtown with a bagged bottle of MD 20/20.

I think you owe an apology to the producers of MD 20/20 and brown paper bags.

27 posted on 12/31/2006 9:05:07 PM PST by matt1234
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
I agree with this view. "Moslems overran societies (Persian, Greek, Egyptian, Byzantine, Syrian, Jewish) that possessed intellectual sophistication in their own right and failed to completely destroy their cultures. To give it the credit for what the remnants of these cultures achieved is like crediting the Red Army for the survival of Chopin in Warsaw in 1970!

Moreover, with al the attention to enviornmentalism and global warming, I think peoploe should note how Muslims have raped the land they have inhabited. By contrast, the Europeans have been good stewards. The contrast could not be more stark.

28 posted on 12/31/2006 9:05:35 PM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: Zack Nguyen; SolidWood
Zack Nguyen wrote: What is "Amurath"?

There were a number of Turkish Ottoman sultans named Amurath.

One of them formed the Jannisaries to counter an insurgence.

Gertrude Bell, the famous English explorer of Arabia published a book titled 'Amurath to Amurath' in the 1920s.

29 posted on 12/31/2006 9:06:27 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

Oh well alright then. I thought we were basing our views on actual history not some Hollywood tripe. Funny, I thought 'conservatives' were right off of Hollywood (well unless I suppose it furthers the myth that 7th-11th century Islamic cultures were a pack of warring mongrels then it's good right?) Islamic culture was not the apex of learning but it offered quite a bit to the Western world.


30 posted on 12/31/2006 9:12:35 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: AnAmericanMother
AnAmericanMother wrote: Also, the idea of "Dark Ages" was a Victorian construct. Things actually weren't as dark as they were painted by the Victorians, who loved to pigeonhole things. The Middle Ages were full of music, art, architecture, faith, love, chivalry -- even though a good deal of the knowledge of the Roman Empire was (temporarily) lost.

The European Dark Ages are so-called because — compared to other periods of history — they are dark to us.

Outside of some monestaries — especially in Iteland — scholarship ceased to be.

There aren't many written records for scholars to study.

31 posted on 12/31/2006 9:17:46 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP; ClearCase_guy
During the Middle Ages, the Muslim world was the very first to create hospitals for treating the sick.

Actually, the Romans had them earier. Check out the life and works of Claudius Galen.

32 posted on 12/31/2006 9:24:07 PM PST by tarheelswamprat (So what if I'm not rich? So what if I'm not one of the beautiful people? At least I'm not smart...)
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To: rabscuttle385

Well stated!


33 posted on 12/31/2006 9:36:12 PM PST by Frank_2001
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To: billbears
Hugh doesn't read a lot of history does he? Islamic intellectual culture at one point in history was far more advanced than Western culture. Islamic cultures kept alive learning when other parts of the world were mucking about in the Dark Ages

It's not Hugh, but you, who needs to do a bit of reasarch in to the history of Islamic cultures.

Islamic intellectial culture was NEVER far more advance than "Western" culture. Now, "Eastern" culture WAS more advanced, but it sure wasn't "Islamic", it was the remanants of the Christian, Zoraoastrian, and other per-Islamic cultures that Islamic parasitism hadn't yet succeded in killing completely off.

As time has passed since then, the remnants of the advance science, medicine, and other aspects of cultures that pre-existed Islam have pretty much died, and what we have left is what you see today - the "culture" that the Muslims brought to the party: violence, ignorance, mind-numbing conformity, enslavement, and poverty in every sense.

When you say that "Islamic cultures kept alive learning when other parts of the world were mucking about in the Dark Ages," you are really missing the mark. Islam was actively killing off that learning, kept alive by the Christians, the Zoroastrians and others, but simply had lacked the time needed to finsih the job.

34 posted on 12/31/2006 9:37:33 PM PST by John Valentine
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
During the Middle Ages, the Muslim world was the very first to create hospitals for treating the sick.

Horse tootle. Almost every physician in the Islamic lands druring the "Middle Ages" was an Assyrian Christian. If there was a Muslim physician, you can be sure he was trained in a Christian hospital, not a Muslim one. Such a thing did not exist, but typcially, Muslims like to take credit for things they had no hand in creating.

35 posted on 12/31/2006 9:42:35 PM PST by John Valentine
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To: billbears; Candor7


36 posted on 12/31/2006 9:43:30 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: tomcorn
The irony is that Islam was once the most sophisticated an learned culture in the world.

The period of enlightenment in the Middle East was mostly before the rule of Islam. Baghdad was a center of culture, science, learning, and beauty. This was before the Islamic expansion and conquest. The real Irony is the Middle East would be the major center of power, learning, science and knowledge if not for Islam. Islamic doctrine laid waste to a great civilization. It reminds of the lyrics from one of Bob Dylan's songs, "and you threw it all away."

37 posted on 12/31/2006 9:52:58 PM PST by cpdiii (Oil Field Trash and proud of it, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, Iconoclast)
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To: quidnunc
And will, until it is realized that people suffused with the tenets and attitudes of Islam are not interested in Western parliamentary democracy.

Maybe. Maybe not...


38 posted on 12/31/2006 10:02:21 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: ClearCase_guy

Ironic how the ME ancients build fabulous irrigation systems throughout the ME for those would-be soapy Muslim Bathhouses and how those irrigation systems fell into disrepair, were abandoned then rebuilt by invading crusaders.

By the way, since they could distill just about anything, why didn't the distill that black stuff oozing out of the ground or, harness that smelly air-that-burns.


39 posted on 12/31/2006 10:09:19 PM PST by paristwelve (-*/)
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To: John Valentine; billbears
Oh, my, I can see that the usual "Islam has never given us any advances" debate has come to a New Year's Eve. If I might be so impolite as to stick an oar in here, I'd suggest gently that billbears' argument has considerable merit to it.

I'm as angry with Islam - yes, the overall religion, not just its influential fanatics - as most, for its adherents failing to face the fact that it has been hijacked and driven into a retrograde position with respect to jihad. But we cannot deny its vital historical role in passing to the West some truly vital cultural underpinnings. Yes, the translations of Aristotle were done primarily by Nestorian Christians and transmitted to us by Muslims. Yes, the basics of algebra and the concept of zero were Indian and transmitted to us by Muslims. Medicine, astronomy, agriculture...the list goes on and on. But they were transmitted, and we would have been the poorer for that not to have taken place.

The key to this is Muslim scholarship. It was that, and not any particular prediliction for advance in science, that led Muslims to occupy this role. There is nothing dishonorable in becoming a keeper of the flame even if one cannot light it oneself. But it meant that once transmitted, the role was done.

Muslim scholarship today has devolved to an obsessive focus on scripture for two reasons - first, that it's the basis of Islamic law and hence political power, and second, that the Turks no longer rule the empire. The Arabs who once did are long gone. What has been transmitted to them is what the Turks allowed them - the Caliph, but not the Sultan. And it is the Sultan who makes the modern world.

And so I must agree with you as well - intellectually Islam is a spent force, a dry well with only memories to comfort it. But do please allow it the memories - that was once the truth, and we would have been the poorer for it not to have been.

40 posted on 12/31/2006 10:09:22 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Again you show the parallels between the Nordic mythology of Tolkein and the images of Islamofascism.

And the elfin language of Legolas resembles Gaelic.

"Tangado haid! Leithio i philinn!"

We will fight the Islamofascists and grind them to ashes and dust.

And we need to get them all to gather in one spot. Thats the ticket!

41 posted on 12/31/2006 10:09:52 PM PST by Candor7 (Into Liberal flatulance goes the best hope of the West, and who wants to be a smart feller?)
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To: Candor7


42 posted on 12/31/2006 10:13:52 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Candor7

They even scream a lot alike...


43 posted on 12/31/2006 10:14:26 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: quidnunc
Outside of some monestaries — especially in Iteland — scholarship ceased to be.

There aren't many written records for scholars to study.

This simply is untrue.

I just finished a college-level course on the history of Western church music, taught by our choir director (who has a doctorate from Juilliard and did a Fulbright at the Lyons Conservatory).

We have thousands of written records from the late Roman empire right on into the reign of Charlemagne. I just got through studying the 1st volume of the Oxford Anthology of Music and there are plenty of music manuscripts from this period as well as a lot of other stuff.

The thing is, there was just so MUCH of it that even though things were lost over time a great deal remains. The monasteries did good work preserving a lot of classical literature that would otherwise have been lost.

The Victorians - especially the Germans - wanted history to Teach A Lesson. They greatly exaggerated the darkness of the "Dark Ages" because they loved the Renaissance period, and they enjoyed the moral lesson of the progression from virtuous Roman Republic, decadent Roman Empire, dreadful Dark Ages, and the returning dawn of the Renaissance that recovered the best of the Romans. "Every picture tells a story."

44 posted on 12/31/2006 10:14:34 PM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Candor7
Actually, there are two Elvish languages, neither of which is based on Gaelic.

The High Elven, Quenya, is based on Finnish. The "ordinary" Elvish tongue, Sindarin, is based on Welsh.

45 posted on 12/31/2006 10:20:14 PM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother
AnAmericanMother wrote: (Outside of some monestaries — especially in Iteland — scholarship ceased to be. There aren't many written records for scholars to study.) This simply is untrue. I just finished a college-level course on the history of Western church music, taught by our choir director (who has a doctorate from Juilliard and did a Fulbright at the Lyons Conservatory). We have thousands of written records from the late Roman empire right on into the reign of Charlemagne. I just got through studying the 1st volume of the Oxford Anthology of Music and there are plenty of music manuscripts from this period as well as a lot of other stuff. The thing is, there was just so MUCH of it that even though things were lost over time a great deal remains. The monasteries did good work preserving a lot of classical literature that would otherwise have been lost. The Victorians - especially the Germans - wanted history to Teach A Lesson. They greatly exaggerated the darkness of the "Dark Ages" because they loved the Renaissance period, and they enjoyed the moral lesson of the progression from virtuous Roman Republic, decadent Roman Empire, dreadful Dark Ages, and the returning dawn of the Renaissance that recovered the best of the Romans. "Every picture tells a story."

Music manuscripts… can you say the Church?

The Dark Ages — the period from the late 400sAD to about 1000AD was marked by a lack of written historical records.

What we know largely comes from monestary records and archeology.

One could not earn a degree with a major in history from Beloit College in the '50 as I did without being well-grounded in the history of Western Civilization.

We can thank the monastic movement for most of the written records of the period from the fall of the Roman empire to the rise of feudalism.

This knowledge has been augmented through other non-written sources such as archeology and forensic pathology.

46 posted on 12/31/2006 10:40:31 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: AnAmericanMother

PS: Music manuscripts add very little to the historical understanding of the period outside of the very narrow nich of Church music.


47 posted on 12/31/2006 10:45:09 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: ClearCase_guy
I've heard many Leftists say that America is nothing special -- just lucky. We stumbled on a land that was rich in resources, and -- voila! -- we are now rich and powerful. All because of an accident of history.

Not really -- Americans had the gumption and the will to improve their lot in life because of a strong faith in christianity which is a religion for optimists, a religion with a loving God, unlike Islam which is submission, which deals with a dreadful, evil deity Allah (aka Satan).
48 posted on 12/31/2006 10:52:59 PM PST by Cronos ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" - Omar Ahmed, CAIR)
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To: tomcorn; CarrotAndStick; Arjun; RusIvan; kosta50
The irony is that Islam was once the most sophisticated an learned culture in the world. While we were wallowing in wattle and daub muslims were building great centers of learning. Something went terribly awry in Islam. Now Islam has become a synonym for violent, mindless reaction and corruption.

Islam was never a sophisticated and / or learned culture. Islam in it's "Golden Age" from the 8th to the 12th century was one in which there were Islamic rulers ruling over vast numbers of Christians and Jews (in Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, North Africa, Spain), Zoroastrians (in Iraq, Iran) and Hindus and Buddhists (in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asia etc.)

As the numbers of the "infidels" dwindled, the society as a whole decayed -- with more Muslime %s, more decay. All "Islamic" thought and "discoveries" are really by the cultures that were decimated by the cult of Islam -- e.g. "arabic" numerals were actually developed in Hindustan -- India, nearly a millenia before the Muslimes usurped it and passed it off as their own. Omar Khayyam was a PERSIAN poet who was hardly Muslime. The fabulous wealth of the Ummayyad Caliphate in Baghdad was due to Christians.

Thank God the Mongols came and destroyed these scum
49 posted on 12/31/2006 10:58:15 PM PST by Cronos ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" - Omar Ahmed, CAIR)
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To: tomcorn

Oh please, Islam was never advanced. It was a warrior cult that took over other Middle Eastern societies that actually were advanced, ranging from Iraq and Iran to Spain. The learning came from the cultures Islam conquered, but in all cases it extinguished learning, freedom and art within 100 years of its arrival.


50 posted on 12/31/2006 11:00:11 PM PST by livius
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