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Why do evangelicals support Israel so strongly?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerGuest.jhtml?itemNo=807769 ^

Posted on 01/01/2007 4:25:08 PM PST by yochanan

Why do evangelicals support Israel so strongly? Is the American Jews' fear of fundamentalist Christianity based on constitutional principle, or social and cultural snobbery and political partisanship?

A Match Made in Heaven is a funny, readable, book. It is the most entertaining way to struggle with questions such as "Why do evangelicals support Israel so strongly? Is their philo-Semitism just a front for their true purpose to convert Jews? Do the evangelicals, as their opponents charge, really want to use the Jews as cannon fodder at the battle of Armageddon? Or are they simply responding to the biblical commandment to love Israel? Finally, is the American Jews' fear of fundamentalist Christianity based on constitutional principle, or social and cultural snobbery and political partisanship?"

We will discuss these questions this week, and readers, as usual, can send their questions to rosnersdomain@haaretz.co.il.

How do America's Orthodox Jews relate to Zionist Evangelicals?

Joe Feld

Paradoxically, Orthodox Jews have the fewest problems with a Jewish-Evangelical relationship.

For one thing, a lot of Orthodox Jews and Evangelicals share conservative social and political positions. Orthodox Jews, for example, are rarely troubled by church-state separation issues. They send their own kids to parochial schools; they're glad to get government money via faith based programs; many are opposed to abortion, and they tend not to be too concerned about the good opinion of the "international community" - ie, Europeans.

Most Orthodox Jews also have a stronger connection to, and concern about, Israel than the secular or liberal majority. Orthodox Jews are more likely to care about a candidates' position on Israel. As a Democratic activist told me, if Cynthia McKinney ran for President as a Democrat, she'd get fifty percent of the Jewish vote.

Some Orthodox Jews are opposed to any

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Israel
KEYWORDS: israel
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Surprisingly good article from Haaretz
1 posted on 01/01/2007 4:25:10 PM PST by yochanan
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To: yochanan

Well I'm not evangelical but I support Israel due to the fact that they're a peace loving nation and the fact that Jews are brothers to Christians is really secondary.


2 posted on 01/01/2007 4:29:35 PM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
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To: yochanan

Evangelicals are aware of who God's chosen people are. We also are aware of how the Book ends.


3 posted on 01/01/2007 4:29:44 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: yochanan
As a Democratic activist told me, if Cynthia McKinney ran for President as a Democrat, she'd get fifty percent of the Jewish vote.

She'd get 50% even if her campaign platform was identical to that of Hamas.

4 posted on 01/01/2007 4:30:44 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: TommyDale

All who accept Jesus Christ, that's who God's chosen people are.


5 posted on 01/01/2007 4:33:17 PM PST by Joseph DeMaistre (There's no such thing as relativism, only dogmatism of a different color)
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To: yochanan
I disagree ... I don't think it is the evangelical that has a true connection with Israel, but the publically professed born again believer, who accepts the Bible for what it says when we are told we are adopted into the circumcision ... we are true spiritual brothers and sisters with God's chosen people.

God told Abraham, "I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee."

America has long (if not always) recognized this spiritual reality.

6 posted on 01/01/2007 4:33:31 PM PST by knarf (Islamists kill each other ... News wall-to-wall, 24/7 .. don't touch that dial.)
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To: yochanan

While I do not think today's nation of Israel enjoys the same relationship with God that Israel did in David's time, I tend to take the same position that David did with Saul. Saul was the reigning king in Israel although David had already been annointed by Samuel. Yet, David, even when presented with an opportunity to kill Saul and rightfully ascend to the throne, did not. He said, (1Sa 24:6 ) "The LORD forbid that I should do this thing to my lord, the LORD's anointed, to put out my hand against him, seeing he is the LORD's anointed." I also support the current nation of Israel with all my heart until the Lord removes them from history.


7 posted on 01/01/2007 4:34:07 PM PST by Jemian (PAM of JT ~~ If life were "fair", we'd all go to hell. I'm glad there is grace.)
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To: Joseph DeMaistre

Of course they are, but the Jews are still God's chosen people.


8 posted on 01/01/2007 4:34:09 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: TommyDale

Excellent commentary !!!


9 posted on 01/01/2007 4:36:15 PM PST by Kimmers (It's not what you take when you leave this world behind, it's what you leave behind when you go)
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To: TommyDale
Evangelicals are aware of who God's chosen people are. We also are aware of how the Book ends

Yes, with most of the Jews killed at Armaggedon while the real Christians hide in raptured safety. Yeah right. Funny, there is nothing in the Bible about the parture and it didnt exist as a Christian belief until the 1800's, the same century the Millerites predicted the end of the world and had their great disaapointment.

10 posted on 01/01/2007 4:36:22 PM PST by Dave S
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To: yochanan

As a Christain I have no problem with theological justifications offered to support Israel.

Nonetheless, I cannot understand why secular rationalists do not support Israel. Whether its Lebanese attacks on Israel or islamic homocide bombers it seems clear which side is in the wrong.

Israel is a democracy and dissent to its policies is openly tolerated. It is not possible to say the same of so called Palestinian areas or southern Lebanon.

The Arab world is basically operating a middle east concentration camp where they are allowed to slowly strangle and kill a Jewish society. This camp is funded and supported by an international community that supports "peace."


11 posted on 01/01/2007 4:36:43 PM PST by lonestar67 (Its time to withdraw from the War on Bush-- your side is hopelessly lost in a quagmire.)
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To: yochanan
The state of the world seems to call on people to either bless the nation of Israel, or to curse her.

Genesis 12:3 is pretty clear about what happens if you choose the latter.

You could ask these Germans, for example, about cursing God's chosen people:


12 posted on 01/01/2007 4:38:39 PM PST by Jim Noble (To secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity)
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To: TommyDale
God chose Israel to spread the Gospel to the gentiles and to be the line that leads to The Savior. That's the meaning of The Chosen People. They don't have any special pipeline to paradise except through faith in Jesus Christ.
13 posted on 01/01/2007 4:41:32 PM PST by InvisibleChurch (Tempus Fidget - The time between the final hymn and recessional.)
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To: InvisibleChurch

I have witnessed them being in God's favor, dating back to their Six Day War.


14 posted on 01/01/2007 4:43:48 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: yochanan

Great. Maybe they can foot the bill for Israeli foreign aid.


15 posted on 01/01/2007 4:44:54 PM PST by Wormwood (I'm with you in Rockland)
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To: yochanan

The last people who should worry about what Europe thinks would be the Jews. Of course, the Liberals, regardless of faith, always worry more about Europe's opinion than about the opinions of their fellow Americans.


16 posted on 01/01/2007 4:45:20 PM PST by elhombrelibre (Saddam was against Iraq's liberation before the Democrats and MSM.)
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To: Dave S

you're right, there is no rapture. So many are being mis-led and it is very dangerous. We're told in the "Olivet Prophecies" of Matthew, Mark, and Luke exactly what we are to do in end times and it isn't to fly away. That's just one of the traditions of men (or Satan) leading Christians away from God's word.


17 posted on 01/01/2007 4:47:39 PM PST by Ping-Pong
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To: Wormwood

So you see no value in having Israel as our only true ally in the Middle East?


18 posted on 01/01/2007 4:48:35 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: Jemian

Please explain "until the Lord removes them from history?"


19 posted on 01/01/2007 4:48:49 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: yochanan
Why do evangelicals support Israel so strongly?

Easy question...

Yahweh and Yeshua are Zionists...

20 posted on 01/01/2007 4:50:17 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: TommyDale

There were 12 tribes of God's chosen people. The "Jews" are of the tribe of Judah with some of the tribe of Levite mixed in. The House of Judah and the House of Israel (the 10 other tribes) split and were scattered by God. Referred to as the "10 lost tribes" the House of Israel went over the Caucasus Mountains and settled Europe, then on to England and eventually America. Many of us are those "Saxons = Isaac's sons". We also are God's chosen people and I believe that is why there is such a close affinity with the Nation (not tribe) of Israel.


21 posted on 01/01/2007 4:52:10 PM PST by Ping-Pong
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To: yochanan; Alouette; SJackson

There are inseparable economic, military strategic and most importantly, Biblically-mandated reasons for continued alliance with Israel. To abandon Israel would be to reject God's blessing on those who bless her.


22 posted on 01/01/2007 4:52:22 PM PST by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: TommyDale
So you see no value in having Israel as our only true ally in the Middle East?

Let's wait and see how their relationship with China pans out before we start giving Israel the 'Pollard Memorial Ally of the Century' award.

23 posted on 01/01/2007 4:52:52 PM PST by Wormwood (I'm with you in Rockland)
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To: knarf

You nailed, grafted in.


24 posted on 01/01/2007 4:53:35 PM PST by xmission
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To: yochanan

Christians support Israel for one reason...Israel must be an intact nation for Revelations to unfold and Jesus to return to the earth.


25 posted on 01/01/2007 4:54:16 PM PST by Bob J (RIGHTALK.com...a conservative alternative to NPR!)
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To: Bob J
That pretty much sums it up.

But I believe that even if no-one supported Israel, God would protect it. Israel is His possession, His land. God protects Israel for His sake, not theirs.

26 posted on 01/01/2007 4:56:52 PM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: yochanan

But many of the comments that follow aren't so hot.

The business of Armageddon results from a fundamental misunderstanding of Evangelical Christians' views regarding Armageddon. That Battle, according to most Fundamentalists, will occur at least 1007 years from now...counting down from the moment of "The Rapture". (The preceding statement based on the fact that most Evangelical Christians and Fundamentalists are Dispensationalists who follow the eschatology of Tim LaHaye and Left Behind, Hal Lindsay, H.R. Ironside, M. R. DeHaan, Moody Bible Institute, etc.)


27 posted on 01/01/2007 4:57:50 PM PST by norge
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To: yochanan

The real question is why do liberals support anti-democratic, anti-women, terrorist dictators.


28 posted on 01/01/2007 5:00:35 PM PST by Always Right
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To: norge
"That Battle, according to most Fundamentalists, will occur at least 1007 years from now..."

I don't know a single fundamentalist Evangelical who believes this. There are a lot of messed up ideas out there.

29 posted on 01/01/2007 5:06:12 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: TommyDale

Let me get this straight. Let's say you're a Christian and believe the bible. Jews are God's chosen people. Jesus, God's only son, was scorned and ultimately railroaded into crucifixtion by "God's chosen people". Then those same people denied the divinity of Jesus and today heap the most scorn on fundamentalist Christians and their "object" of worship. They also make up a large portion of the outspoken atheists- to whom God's existence is a joke. And according to the New Testament, these Chosen People don't make it to Heaven unless they sing a different tune.

You gotta be kidding me. I'm no theologist, but this is a little much for a layman to swallow. I value the Jewish community and Israel but the "chosen people" argument doesn't wash.


30 posted on 01/01/2007 5:15:09 PM PST by jagrmeister
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To: InvisibleChurch

God did choose Israel to spread the Word to the gentiles. The gentiles are the ethnos,the nations. The tribes of Israel, (not the nation of Israel), consists of 10 of the 12 tribes, the so called "10 lost tribes". The Jews are from the tribe of Judah only. Where did those 10 tribes go?After God scattered them they eventually migrated to America, to the "One nation under God" and we do spread His Word to the gentile nations today. They don't listen very well but we try. We are part of the chosen people so let's get busy and continue helping our brother Judah.


31 posted on 01/01/2007 5:15:52 PM PST by Ping-Pong
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To: jagrmeister

First, you need to distinguish between secular Jews and Orthodox Jews. Secondly, they will all have their chance at redemption. Meanwhile, I will continue to support Israel.


32 posted on 01/01/2007 5:16:48 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: cripplecreek

Ditto. Israel is the lone democracy in the ME. Its in our interest to support this young nation.


33 posted on 01/01/2007 5:17:24 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: yochanan

Why? Because many evangelicals, while not too clever on when it comes to science, understand basic moral principles. In contrast, many secular people takescience to the extreme and turn it into a religion itself. Finding no basis for morality in atoms and genes, they become morally paralyzed in relativism, and ultimately nihilism.

Anybody who acknowledges lgood's right to resist evil, the moral superiority of liberal democracy over tyranny, the difference between a free people and one that straps bombs to their kids, the difference between a regime that believes in human rights and one that wants to complete Hitler's Final Solution -- will give Israel unequivocal support.


34 posted on 01/01/2007 5:23:11 PM PST by JHBowden (President Giuliani in 2008! Law and Order. Solid Judges. Free Markets. Killing Terrorists.)
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To: yochanan

Hey Israel and all Jews,

I love ya, deal with it!


35 posted on 01/01/2007 5:26:00 PM PST by NickFlooding (Canceling out liberal votes since 1972.)
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To: TommyDale

Ditto
and
ditto


36 posted on 01/01/2007 5:28:01 PM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream, that sees beyond the years)
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To: TommyDale
Wormwood: "Great. Maybe they can foot the bill for Israeli foreign aid."

TommyDale: So you see no value in having Israel as our only true ally in the Middle East?


His myopic overreacting with a lack of aesthetics...

Some of the Bozos out there can't get past that word “God,” so they would just piss the entire country away and join the enemies of America; all because they have this polemic need to bash the Christians and do everything in contravention to them. I say screw them and the filthy practices they want to live by. My children are not going to inherit their squalor if I can help it.

Of course, what a lot of the leftists and misguided, myopic liberal-tarians don't want to admit is that Christianity (and they do hate Christians) is just their politically correct proxy for their war against what is written in the Judaic book of Genesis.

It is no coincidence Islamic pagans hate Israel, Jews, Christians and Western Civilization. The entire basis of Western Civilization is Mosaic Law, something both the Neo-Pagan Left and the pagan Islamic thugs cannot abide and wish to destroy.

The very idea that human beings have individual rights not subject to the whims of an earthly monarch, but subject to the laws of Yahweh, is directly from Moses.

Historically, this is proven over and over again with the successive conflicts between the forces of paganism and the Judaic culture. (This includes the idolatry of cultural Marxist paganism.)

Aleister Crowley, who openly supported the National Socialists, was affiliated with Ordo Templi Orientis,the Golden Dawn, A.A. (Order of the Silver Star) and other such occult lodges all across Germany. Crowley engaged in all manner of deviancy, homoeroticism, sadomasochism and murder. Much of the occultism in National Socialism is derived directly from there. Crowley envisioned himself as the Great Beast (To Mega Therion), just as der Fuhrer made himself in that image. Hitler's life as a struggling, inept artist was where that association blossomed.

Crowley's creed, "Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the Law," (which is actually from Francois Rabelais) and used by Neo-Pagan nutcases without attribution for obvious politically correct reasons, is with certainty no different than the National Socialist "will to power," or their ubermensch mentality.

Homosexual monogamy advocates seek ceremonious sanctification of their anatomical perversions and esoteric absolution for their guilt-ridden, impoverished egos.

Neither of those will satisfy their universal dissatisfaction with mortality or connect them to something eternal. With pantheons of fantasies as their medium of infinitization, they still have nothing in them of reality, any more than there is in the things that seem to stand before us in a dream.

Homosexual deviancy is really a pagan practice (and a self-induced social psychosis) at war with the Judaic culture over what is written in the book of Genesis (1:27, 2:18).

This is exactly what the National Socialists were at war with... especially if you consider their eugenic breeding programs... so, when someone uses the term "Gaystapo," they might not realize how close to the truth they really are.

Contemplate the religious fervor associated with the pro-abortion advocacy. The societal practice of abortion is ritual mass murder upon the altars of conceit dedicated to idolatrous vanities, a collective human sacrifice before pagan idols.

It has a similitude to the Teutonic paganism of Adolph Hitler (whose idolatry was the idea of a "master race," among other things). In effect, these genocides are a mass human sacrifice to those pagan idols. The abortionists, like the National Socialists, incinerate the remains of their victims.

These occult orders, sex and drug cults still survive today, as do the Neo-pagan, Neo-Nazi groups, black supremacist Rastafarian potheads, prison gangs and other related filth.

Crowley occultism is also from where L. Ron Hubbard emerges with Scientology. Note the NAZI symbolism of that kooky cult of weirdoes and their deviant adherents.

The Sun and Bacchus are Apollo and Dionysus, two gods, or two aspects of religious experience from the ancient Greeks, and their juxtaposition is of some importance - - a statement of belief in the duality of human nature, symbolized by Apollo as the light of reason, and Dionysus as the underground power of emotion (see Camille Paglia's Sexual Personae).

Egyptians worshipped Harpocrates, the god of silence; for which reason he is always pictured holding a finger on his mouth. Athenians had a statue of brass, which they bowed to; a figure made without a tongue, to declare secrecy thereby. The Romans had a goddess of silence called Angerona, which was pictured like Harpocrates, holding her finger on her mouth, in token of secrecy.

There is an occult nature to certain politics and this progression of culture (ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, National Socialism, Soviet Socialism and the modern iconographic idolatry of Marxist paganism) can easily be illustrated, but is most often ignored or rejected for reasons of political expediency, like the aforementioned pagan idolatries of secrecy and silence.

The use of such religion is essential for many aspects of political power over the ignorant, unwashed masses. It is no surprise that Akhnaton's monotheistic approach was completely and abruptly destroyed by the successive generation, restoring the pantheistic idolatries of previous pharaohs. This phenomenon is not historically isolated and is played out in a myriad of instances today.

A greater number of "atheists" and "pagans" adopt the same hackneyed tenets of a faux Judaic-Christian ideal (golden calf). They also subscribe to the Judaic fetishism of "sin," but will fight to their death in denial of it.

Most of them are so wrapped up in their own polemics that they have become nothing more than pathetic anti-Christians with the same false hypocritical philosophy. They just slap a new label on it hoping nobody will notice - - they replace the idea of "avoiding sin" with "morals."

Morality and all of its associated ideals are rooted entirely in the presupposition some higher power defines what is correct in human behavior. Today, "morals" are a religious pagan philosophy of esoteric hobgoblins. Transfiguration is a pantheon of fantasies as the medium of infinitization. Others get derision for having an unwavering Judaic belief in Yahweh or Yeshua, although their critics and enemies will evangelize insertion of phantasmagoric fetishisms into secular law.

37 posted on 01/01/2007 5:31:49 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Always Right
The real question is why do liberals support anti-democratic, anti-women, terrorist dictators.

Many leftists think that the Islamofascists will be useful idiots in destroying modern Western societies. Once Western civilization is destroyed, these leftists think they can take the wreckage and build a communist utopia. That is why you see a convergence of many (but not all) leftist causes and Islamofascist causes.

38 posted on 01/01/2007 5:34:21 PM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: Dave S
Yes, with most of the Jews killed at Armaggedon while the real Christians hide in raptured safety. Yeah right. Funny, there is nothing in the Bible about the parture and it didnt exist as a Christian belief until the 1800's, the same century the Millerites predicted the end of the world and had their great disaapointment.

Your grasp of eschatology leaves much to be desired. At Armageddon, Christ himself will fight against the assembled armies of the Antichrist (Beast) on behalf of the Jews.

Also, although the term "Rapture" does not appear in the Scripture, the event it refers to is described by Paul:

"For the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thess. 4:16-17)

Unless you think these Scriptures don't mean what they say, the Bible does indeed speak about what we refer to as the "Rapture".

39 posted on 01/01/2007 5:35:56 PM PST by CA Conservative
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To: Ping-Pong

"There were 12 tribes of God's chosen people. The "Jews" are of the tribe of Judah with some of the tribe of Levite mixed in. The House of Judah and the House of Israel (the 10 other tribes) split and were scattered by God. Referred to as the "10 lost tribes" the House of Israel went over the Caucasus Mountains and settled Europe, then on to England and eventually America. Many of us are those "Saxons = Isaac's sons". We also are God's chosen people and I believe that is why there is such a close affinity with the Nation (not tribe) of Israel." ~ Ping-Pong

Not so.

Watchman Fellowship’s 2001 Index of Cults and Religions
http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm#British
British Israelism: (Anglo-Israelism/Israelitism) The doctrine that the true identity of modern Israel (or the “ten lost tribes”) is Britian and (sometimes) the British colonies (America). The monarchs of England sit on the throne of David. In more extreme forms, Israel is identified with a particular race­usually white Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, and Scandinavian people. Opposing versions of doctrine teach that Blacks are God’s Chosen People, Israel. See Christian Identity Movement, Serpent seed doctrine.

*

THE IDENTITY MOVEMENT
What has come to be known as the Identity Movement was previously termed Anglo-Israelism or British-Israelism. It is composed of those individuals and groups who identify the present day Anglo-Saxon people as the direct biological descendants of the ancient Israelites and, as such, God's chosen people, the heirs of all God's promises to Abraham and his progeny. ..." [snip] http://www.americanreligion.org/cultwtch/identity.html

*
Apologetics Index
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b72.html

Also known as Christian Identity, Anglo- or British-Israelism. Adherents believe present day Anglo-Saxon people are direct descendants of the ancient Israelites, and have thus inherited all God's promises to Abraham and his descendants.

More information at: Identity Movement

Origins of the British Israelites : The Lost Tribes by Michael Friedman.
This exhaustive and comprehensive work uses in-depth research in the fields of philology, British history, hermeneutics, scientific principles, and geological and archeological studies to refute the claims of British Israelism that they are the Lost Tribes. The writer shows the many groups that fall into the British Israelism camp. The book also contains maps of the Holy Land and the land grants of the various tribes, as well as letters from leading institutions of higher education refuting the claims of British Israelism
The Edwin Mellen PressOff-site Link

Apologetics Index (apologeticsindex.org, countercult.com, cultfaq.org) provides 25,000+ pages of research resources on religious cults, sects, new religious movements, alternative religions, apologetics-, anticult-, and countercult organizations, doctrines, religious practices and world views. These resources reflect a variety of theological and/or sociological perspectives.

The site provides information that helps equip Christians to logically present and defend the Christian faith, and that aids non-Christians in their comparison of various religious claims. Issues addressed range from spiritual and cultic abuse to contemporary theological and/or sociological concerns.

Apologetics Index also includes ex-cult support resources - including a directory of cult experts (CultExperts.org), up-to-date religion and cult news (Religon News Blog: ReligionNewsBlog.com), articles on Christian life and ministry, and a variety of other features.
Spacer
*

Cult Awareness & Information Center:

History of British-Israelism in the Revival Centres
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=640&Itemid=8

The Theory of British Israelism Page 1 of 10
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=639&Itemid=8


40 posted on 01/01/2007 5:37:13 PM PST by Matchett-PI (To have no voice in the Party that always sides with America's enemies is a badge of honor.)
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To: norge
Obviously your talking from points told to you, by someone who was told those points by someone, who was told the same points.

Sort of like someone who does a book critic of a NYT best seller, without ever reading it, but what he thinks it says.

Forget about "actual" theology, if you had read the NYT best seller Left Behind, written by Tim Lahaye, who you mentioned, you'd realize that his views and the views of the others you mentioned, are that Armaggeddon happens at the end of the 7 year tribulation period, not at the end of the millenial reign.

I was brought up with the teachings of the rapture, but as I've gotten older and studied scripture for my self, I never see the rapture mentioned. But the tribulation and Armaggeddon and the millenial reign and the final judgment all most definetely are.

Throughout history God has protected his people (Jews or gentiles) but has never removed them completely from tribulations.

A person who focuses on a rapture, focuses on escaping terrible times. The person who focuses on end times focuses on time running out for the great commision.

The person focusing on the rapture if it doesn't happen isn't prepared for what follows. Meanwhile a person focused on end times is prepared even if there is a rapture.

41 posted on 01/01/2007 5:40:02 PM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: TommyDale
We also are aware of how the Book ends.

And the good news - we win!

42 posted on 01/01/2007 5:43:31 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Jim Noble
Genesis 12:3 is pretty clear about what happens if you choose the latter.

See #37... (the nature of the war against Genesis).

43 posted on 01/01/2007 5:46:01 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: cripplecreek
...the fact that they're a peace loving nation and the fact that Jews are brothers to Christians is really secondary.

These things are actually of a piece.

Shalom.

44 posted on 01/01/2007 5:46:28 PM PST by onedoug
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To: yochanan
[ Why do evangelicals support Israel so strongly? Is the American Jews' fear of fundamentalist Christianity based on constitutional principle, or social and cultural snobbery and political partisanship? ]

No...
Serious Jews know they should believe in Jesus Christ on some deep level..
All the first christians were Jews..
And many many Jews are Now.. both worldwide and in Isreal..

45 posted on 01/01/2007 5:46:51 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole)
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To: Bob J; yochanan

I have to disagree with you. We don't need to support Israel in order for it to be an intact nation so that Christ will return. Whether America supports Israel or not, it will happen as prophesied.

We stand with Israel because of our great debt to her. God very clearly states He will bless those who bless Israel. That's enough reason for me.


46 posted on 01/01/2007 5:47:13 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: yochanan
Why do I, an evangelical charismatic Christian, support Israel?

Now the Lord had said to Abram: “Get out of your country, from your family and from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Genesis 12:1-4

47 posted on 01/01/2007 5:49:46 PM PST by Hoodat ( ETERNITY - Smoking, or Non-smoking?)
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To: Always Right
The real question is why do liberals support anti-democratic, anti-women, terrorist dictators. Now there is no question to that one. It defies all logic.
48 posted on 01/01/2007 5:50:24 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: GOPPachyderm

I meant there is no answer. There is no answer to that one, not "there is no question to that one." Ooops.


49 posted on 01/01/2007 5:51:13 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: yochanan

For me it's not about converting them .. it's about understanding Israel's place in Biblican prophecy.

And .. any nation which support Israel is blessed - and we are told to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.


50 posted on 01/01/2007 5:51:52 PM PST by The Final Harvest (Drive-By Media: Fake news, fake documents, fake polls)
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