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Many US Cities Have Had Murder Rates Higher Than Iraq's 2006 'Violent Death' Rate
Newsbusters ^ | 1/3/07 | Tom Blumer

Posted on 01/03/2007 6:19:30 PM PST by pissant

The Associated Press released an interesting set of statistics (host link stored for future ref) a couple of days ago that I would suppose were designed to suck away any optimism any fools who still support the mission in Iraq might have (bolds are mine):

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Government officials on Monday reported that 16,273 Iraqi civilians, soldiers and police died violent deaths in 2006, a figure larger than an independent Associated Press count for the year by more than 2,500.

The tabulation by the Iraqi ministries of Health, Defense and Interior, showed that 14,298 civilians, 1,348 police and 627 soldiers were killed in the violence that raged in the country last year.

The Associated Press accounting, gleaned from daily news reports from Baghdad, arrived at a total of 13,738 deaths.

Pretty grim, isn't it? And this is for "violence that raged in the (whole) country."

Man, what a downer. I mean, this is an honest-to-goodness Grade A bona fide quagmire.

Oops -- I started digging into US murder statistics, and what I found made me less depressed about Iraq, and more concerned about the US.

Let's put this in perspective. Below are 10 listings for US cities and years. Your mission to accomplish (so to speak), is to guess whether each particular city's murder rate in the year identified was higher or lower than the "violent death rate" in Iraq (which is, from all appearances, all-inclusive). Let's use the Iraqi government's higher number of 16,273 just for the heck of it, even though the Associated Press will "surely" be bothered that I'm exaggerating the level of violence compared to what their records show (somehow, I think they'll get over it). Using the government's figure means that Iraq's violent death rate in 2006 was 56.49 per 100,000 residents (16,273 deaths, and a population per Wiki of 28,807,000).

So here are the US cities and the related years:

1. New York City - 1990 2. Washington, DC - 1991 3. Gary, IN - 2005 4. Detroit, MI - 1991 5. Compton, CA - 2005 6. New Orleans, LA - 2006 7. New Orleans, LA - 2004 8. New Orleans, LA - 2003 9. Atlanta, GA - 1973 10. E. St. Louis, IL - 2004

Try not to peek ahead.

......

...... Done?

SURPRISE -- Every city and year listed had a higher murder rate than Iraq in 2006 -- except (surprise again) New York City in 1990 (Gotham's worst year on record for murder).

The murder rates were as follows (see related graph at UPDATE 2 below):

1. New York City - 1990; 30.7 (2,245 murders; population 7,322,000) 2. Washington, DC - 1991; 83.1 (482 murders; population 598,000 [1]) 3. Gary, IN - 2005; 58.0 4. Detroit, MI - 1991; roughly 60 5. Compton, CA - 2005; 67.1 6. New Orleans, LA - 2006; 67.5 (154 murders; population 228,000 [2]) 7. New Orleans, LA - 2004; 59.6 (275 murders; population 461,115 [3]) 8. New Orleans, LA - 2003; 57.7 9. Atlanta, GA - 1973; 57.7 (271 murders; population 470,000 [1]) 10. E. St. Louis, IL - 2004; 63.4

Does this mean Iraq is a walk in the park? Of course not.

Does this mean that Iraq is a hopeless quagmire that cannot be won? It would appear, at a minimum, that anyone who believes that carries a heavy burden of proof.

And to personalize it, dear reader, unless you've gone on record in favor of abandoning the residents of the cities listed above to their own devices at the times they were (or are) extremely dangerous places to be, it would seem that you have no basis for contending that we should do that to the people of Iraq.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: baghdad; demographics; freakanomics; iraq; iraqwar; msmquagmire; religionofpeace; rop; statistics
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Helluva quagmire we gots here...

Read the rest here:

http://newsbusters.org/node/9932

1 posted on 01/03/2007 6:19:33 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant
From article: dear reader, unless you've gone on record in favor of abandoning the residents of the cities listed above to their own devices at the times they were (or are) extremely dangerous places to be, it would seem that you have no basis for contending that we should do that to the people of Iraq.

Bada Bing!

2 posted on 01/03/2007 6:26:28 PM PST by Alia
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To: pissant

Maybe we should "redeploy" the residents of those cities, huh?


3 posted on 01/03/2007 6:26:38 PM PST by Two Kids' Dad ((( Omega 2012 )))
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To: Alia

I'm sure Baghdad is safer than some parts of Chicago I've been in.


4 posted on 01/03/2007 6:29:04 PM PST by pissant
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To: Two Kids' Dad

Houston got a redeployment from New Orleans. They didn't like it.


5 posted on 01/03/2007 6:29:53 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant
Many US Cities Have Had Murder Rates Higher Than Iraq's 2006 'Violent Death' Rate

Perhaps our elected officials should spend a little more time, effort, and money (ours) concentrating on domestic issues like crime than on foreign welfare and entanglements?
6 posted on 01/03/2007 6:31:03 PM PST by WhiteGuy (GOP Congress - 16,000 earmarks costing US $50 billion in 2006)
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To: WhiteGuy

I like foreign entanglements that kill our enemies. that is one of the constitutional duties of the federal government. But yes, mayors, city councils, etc should get busy too.


7 posted on 01/03/2007 6:33:37 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant

And try to remember that the MSM doesnt delineate between accidental or intentional deaths in Iraq.

If you crashed your hummvee or were rolled over by one of out own tanks you get added to the list.


8 posted on 01/03/2007 6:37:12 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

1/3 of the military deaths are accidents/friendly fire, if I'm not mistaken.


9 posted on 01/03/2007 6:38:34 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant

Iraq would probably have a higher death rate than our American cities if Iraq enjoyed the amount of diversity that we enjoy here in America. Look at the cities on the list.


10 posted on 01/03/2007 6:38:45 PM PST by Plains Drifter (America First, Last, and Always!!!)
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To: Plains Drifter

LOL. If a city has "diversity" in its mission statement or charter, high crime is sure to be present.


11 posted on 01/03/2007 6:40:24 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant

I like foreign entanglements that kill our enemies.


yeah, enemies........................


something to consider, just who are the real enemies of the American people?


12 posted on 01/03/2007 6:40:50 PM PST by WhiteGuy (GOP Congress - 16,000 earmarks costing US $50 billion in 2006)
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To: pissant
Ive been in stateside war games with these soldiers (no live ammo) about 5 die per exercise from accidents

Theres a lot of heavy machinery running about in the dead of night with lights out.

13 posted on 01/03/2007 6:41:27 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: WhiteGuy

Jihadis and leftists about covers the gammut.


14 posted on 01/03/2007 6:42:21 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant

Another stat Id be interested in is how many soldiers we lose stateside while on leave from the war zone. car/motorcycle accidents


15 posted on 01/03/2007 6:44:09 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: pissant

If only they had "Martin Luther King Boulevard" and "Malcolm X Avenue" in Iraq, our troops job would be much easier.


16 posted on 01/03/2007 6:45:14 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: nnn0jeh

ping


17 posted on 01/03/2007 6:45:19 PM PST by kalee (No burka for me....EVER!)
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To: mylife

Yep. It's a real shame too.


18 posted on 01/03/2007 6:45:47 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant

Jihadis and leftists about covers the gammut.


interesting theory.................

it is doubtful that most of the criminals who could be considered "enemies" of Americans have any political ageenda at all.......................

jihadists are simply pawns and most violent criminals are sociopaths..............


19 posted on 01/03/2007 6:46:36 PM PST by WhiteGuy (GOP Congress - 16,000 earmarks costing US $50 billion in 2006)
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To: pissant

Some of the must openly idiotic twisting of statistics we've yet seen in this war.


20 posted on 01/03/2007 6:47:02 PM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: pissant

Yes it is. It can happen easily. I almost got whacked by an M1 Abrahms in the dead of night doing about 45. missed me by about 5 feet


21 posted on 01/03/2007 6:48:14 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: dfwgator

Good one!!


22 posted on 01/03/2007 6:49:33 PM PST by Plains Drifter (America First, Last, and Always!!!)
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To: mylife

I'm sure it approaches quagmire numbers.


23 posted on 01/03/2007 6:49:59 PM PST by pissant
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To: dfwgator

Yes. Mambe we can suggest a Mumia Parkway for Baghdad.


24 posted on 01/03/2007 6:51:05 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant

I saw an officer in Afghanistan say that he lost more men to motor vehicle accidents stateside then he did in battle.

The guys are cutting up and celebrating being home. They feel invincible because they've lived through a war zone


25 posted on 01/03/2007 6:53:46 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: WhiteGuy

Jihadis may be pawns, much as soldiers from WWII were pawns. But you usually have to kill alot of pawns before you get to the King. OBL may still be alive in a cave somewhere, but his butt buddy saddam wasn't so lucky.


26 posted on 01/03/2007 6:55:11 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant
We need a Patton to replace this guy!

Do we have a Patton in the military?

27 posted on 01/03/2007 6:58:28 PM PST by Sen Jack S. Fogbound
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To: mylife

omg...how did it miss you??!!!
I mean thank God it did!


28 posted on 01/03/2007 6:59:14 PM PST by miliantnutcase ("If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it." -ichabod1)
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To: mylife

Yikes! That would be a quick death.


29 posted on 01/03/2007 7:05:03 PM PST by pissant
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To: miliantnutcase

L0L when your driving this stuff around in the dead of night with lights out wearing night vision googles with one lens focused on a map and a GPS and the other lens focused on the horizon, sometimes you dont see the tank that comes blasting out of the bushes across the road.

a couple other fellows ran their hummvee into a ravine, it was on its nose. 10 feet away, in that ravine right against the wall was a signal brigade headquarters tent. Several narrowly missed serious injury or death over an accident. Shit happens


30 posted on 01/03/2007 7:05:48 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

Yep, drink like fish, drive fast, chase the wrong women....lotsa hazzards.


31 posted on 01/03/2007 7:06:03 PM PST by pissant
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To: Sen Jack S. Fogbound

Which guy?


32 posted on 01/03/2007 7:06:36 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant

Yessir. And the MSM counts those who succumb to disease, Heat and anything else you can think of as KIA


33 posted on 01/03/2007 7:08:38 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: pissant

The article's assertion is false. According to the Strategy Page web site, the 2006 Iraqi death toll was 11 times the U.S. murder rate and two-thirds of the American death toll (per capita) in the worst year of World War II, 1944. Go to:

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq/articles/20070103.aspx


34 posted on 01/03/2007 7:11:22 PM PST by Man of the Right
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To: pissant

Deport illegals to reduce domestic crime 25%.


35 posted on 01/03/2007 7:11:27 PM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: mylife

Anything to tarnish the job that these men are doing.


36 posted on 01/03/2007 7:12:05 PM PST by pissant
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To: Man of the Right

He is comparing the Iraq to large cities, not the US as a whole. So his point stands.


37 posted on 01/03/2007 7:14:04 PM PST by pissant
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To: ClaireSolt

I'm with you on that one.


38 posted on 01/03/2007 7:14:27 PM PST by pissant
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To: JerseyHighlander
Some of the must openly idiotic twisting of statistics we've yet seen in this war.

Hear hear. And yet it's a FR favorite. I imagine Rush will be bloviating about this tomorrow for like the fifth time.

39 posted on 01/03/2007 7:15:38 PM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: pissant

US cities vs Iraq the country is like apples and oranges comparison.

How about America the country vs Iraq the country for a more fair evaluation?


40 posted on 01/03/2007 7:17:06 PM PST by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: pissant

Sorry! I was thinking of another post about Bush replacing General Casey!


41 posted on 01/03/2007 7:17:22 PM PST by Sen Jack S. Fogbound
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To: pissant
If we redeploy from New Orleans, how much money would that free for domestic spending?
42 posted on 01/03/2007 7:17:31 PM PST by Volunteer (Just so you know, I am ashamed the Dixie Chicks make records in Nashville.)
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To: mylife

Wow...
Good thing you weren't at 3000 yards or he woulda pegged ya ;-)


43 posted on 01/03/2007 7:18:22 PM PST by miliantnutcase ("If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it." -ichabod1)
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To: pissant

I dont know that they tarnish the job in inflating the numbers, but they do inflate the numbers to make it seem that all casualties are the equivilant of dieing to an IED or a sniper in order to horrify us against the war.

Where is the outrage over accidental death in an auto in the US? Thousands die going to the store for milk or whatever.

I'd rather die trying to accomplish something important.
Does that make any sense?


44 posted on 01/03/2007 7:19:00 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: JerseyHighlander

Why? If the MSM can pretend that 3000 dead warriors (a third of which died in non-combat situations) is the worst thing to happen to America since Ronald Reagan won the cold war, then we shopuld shove their quagmire shit right back down their throats.


45 posted on 01/03/2007 7:19:54 PM PST by pissant
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To: azhenfud

Why? The population of Iraq is 25 mil. Closer to LA and NY than to the US.


46 posted on 01/03/2007 7:21:09 PM PST by pissant
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To: Sen Jack S. Fogbound

I thought sumthin was fishy.


47 posted on 01/03/2007 7:21:43 PM PST by pissant
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To: Volunteer

better yet, how much can we keep in our pockets.


48 posted on 01/03/2007 7:22:15 PM PST by pissant
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To: Man of the Right
The article's assertion is false. According to the Strategy Page web site, the 2006 Iraqi death toll was 11 times the U.S. murder rate and two-thirds of the American death toll (per capita) in the worst year of World War II, 1944.

Do you mind? We're trying to skew statistics, here. It's a nice way to unwind after a long day of pointing out how the MSM plays with numbers for propaganda value. ;-)

49 posted on 01/03/2007 7:23:04 PM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: mylife

Well, our job is to honor them eternally, with prayers and monuments to their heroics.


50 posted on 01/03/2007 7:23:48 PM PST by pissant
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