[Warhammer]

So that all chances of advancement would be based on your seniority, not how well you do your job? That's what happens in unionized industries here in the States.

Unions do not allow for merit-based pay. It's all based on how long you have been on the job, not how well you have done your job.

Not only that, they pigeonhole you into a particular cog in the wheel. Need to move a table in your office? Can't just take 5 minutes to move it in a union shop, you have to submit a maintenance request and let them get to you two weeks later. Otherwise, the union maintenance guy will file a grievance because you were doing "his job". Meanwhile, your project schedule takes a hit that could have been easily avoided with some common sense, as opposed to following union rules.

The difference is that you cannot appoint/vote for the management of the insurance company but in the union you could.

And that management that you have to vote for runs on the platform of how many goodies can they squeeze out of the eeevil management to the point that they make their industries noncompetitive and bankrupt their companies (see United Airlines, Delta Airlines and others who used to have a great employer-provided pension plan that the unions destroyed by their tactics.) A union will end up hurting it's workers that way, but the fat-cat union bosses still get their money and to heck with the folks that they are supposed to be helping

Now was there a time for unions? Certainly. But their time has past. Folks have got to realize that they're on the same team in a company.

Long term, companies have to realize that for the most part if they treat their employees fairly they will get great results. Companies that cling to old management-labor paradigms will go the way of the dinosaurs.

[A. Pole]

advancement would be based on your seniority

Sure it beats having to train some young twerp from India to be your replacement after you worked in company for 20 years.

[A. Pole]

Now was there a time for unions? Certainly. But their time has past.

For a while, now the time IS BACK!

Folks have got to realize that they're on the same team in a company.

Not anymore, baby.

[lucysmom]

Not only that, they pigeonhole you into a particular cog in the wheel. Need to move a table in your office? Can't just take 5 minutes to move it in a union shop, you have to submit a maintenance request and let them get to you two weeks later. Otherwise, the union maintenance guy will file a grievance because you were doing "his job". Meanwhile, your project schedule takes a hit that could have been easily avoided with some common sense, as opposed to following union rules.

Sounds a lot like what happens when a company decides to outsource services that were once handled in-house. However, because outsourcing is usually management's bright idea, only the underlings complain.

[lucysmom]

And that management that you have to vote for runs on the platform of how many goodies can they squeeze out of the eeevil management to the point that they make their industries noncompetitive and bankrupt their companies (see United Airlines, Delta Airlines and others who used to have a great employer-provided pension plan that the unions destroyed by their tactics.) A union will end up hurting it's workers that way, but the fat-cat union bosses still get their money and to heck with the folks that they are supposed to be helping

Not unlike the fat-cat network that determines CEO compensation.

[B-Chan]

"Folks have got to realize that they're on the same team in a company."

LOL.

If everyone's on the same team in your average corporation, how come management gets rewarded for screwing up their jobs (big-bux severance packages) while the salaried schlubs and line-monkeys get nothing but a kick in the ass?

You and I both know that most companies fail due to bad management, not bad work. Yet when things go to hell it's the least responsible (the rank and file) who get hurt, while those who ran the company into the ground float safely to Earth on golden parachutes. Some "team"!