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Why Covet Ancient Chariots. . .
The Times (UK) ^ | 1-5-2006 | Richard Owen

Posted on 01/05/2007 12:05:03 PM PST by blam

Why covet ancient chariots...

Richard Owen

ITALY Conservationists are campaigning for the return of a unique Etruscan “golden chariot” which is due to form the centrepiece of a new exhibition this Spring at the Metropolitan Museum in New York. The chariot, found in 1902 by a farmer at Monteleone near Spoleto in Umbria, and sold to the Met the next year, dates back to the 6th century BC. It is the star attraction in a collection of antiquities to go on show at the $155 million (£80million) Leon Levy and Shelby White Court at the museum.

Villagers in Monteleone (population 651), say that it was exported illegally. The campaign comes as Italy is stepping up its battle to regain a number of allegedly looted antiquities from institutions including the Met and the Getty Museum in Los Angeles.

The farmer who found the chariot sold it — for two cows, according to some accounts — to dealers who allegedly smuggled it to New York.

Tito Mazzetta, a lawyer in Atlanta, Georgia, whose family came from Monteleone and who has taken up the case, said the Metropolitan Museum had so far refused to return the chariot, although it “has not produced any documentation to prove its legal provenance”.

Marion True, a former curator of antiquities at the Getty Museum, is currently on trial in Rome for allegedly acquiring stolen artefacts.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: chariots; covet; godsgravesglyphs; italy

1 posted on 01/05/2007 12:05:05 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
GGG Ping.

Abandoned Ancient Chariots Found In Bulgaria

2 posted on 01/05/2007 12:06:39 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

So what's on your land is not yours. Then it is not your land.

Walter Williams says that the proof of whether you own/control something is if you can sell it. He even extended that to his own organs (which he is prohibited from selling).


3 posted on 01/05/2007 12:10:32 PM PST by weegee ("Vote Obama - For More Ears!")
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To: blam
Talk about your floodgates!

Probably 90% of the stuff in museums worldwide has doubtful provenance, if this is how one defines provenance.

The Elgin Marbles will have to be on the next boat to Greece, not to mention all the stuff in the Louvre . . .

This is a total waste of time. If the Elgin Marbles had stayed in Athens, they would be a puddle of calcium sulphate by now.

4 posted on 01/05/2007 12:26:49 PM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: blam

Very nice bronze piece. Look at the wheel bearings. What kind of grease did they pack those with?


5 posted on 01/05/2007 12:29:18 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
"What kind of grease did they pack those with?"

Animal fat?

6 posted on 01/05/2007 12:32:53 PM PST by blam
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To: RightWhale
The entrails of the defeated....

something about the laminations of the widows comes to mind.
7 posted on 01/05/2007 12:36:10 PM PST by ASOC (The phrase "What if" or "If only" are for children.)
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To: weegee
Walter Williams is right.

Carolyn

8 posted on 01/05/2007 12:37:30 PM PST by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: blam

Yes, but what kind? Bear fat? Hog fat? Which is best? Maybe they didn't know as much as we know, but they knew stuff we never even thought of, and knew it when it counts. It would be total tragedy for the chariot wheels to seize up in the midst of battle because you used sheep fat instead of camel hide soaked in hot bear grease.


9 posted on 01/05/2007 12:40:47 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
What kind of grease

Pennzoil® Premium Wheel Bearing 707L Red Grease

10 posted on 01/05/2007 12:43:39 PM PST by muleskinner
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To: ASOC

The space aliens are interested in us for our brains. They use them to grease their machinery.


11 posted on 01/05/2007 12:44:39 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale

If they pick up congress-critters, their equipment will surly fail from lack of lubrication....


12 posted on 01/05/2007 12:52:07 PM PST by ASOC (The phrase "What if" or "If only" are for children.)
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To: blam
"Tito Mazzetta, a lawyer in Atlanta, Georgia, whose family came from Monteleone and who has taken up the case, said the Metropolitan Museum had so far refused to return the chariot, although it “has not produced any documentation to prove its legal provenance”."

Note to lawyer; if you don't have a title for the chariot with the correct VIN number on it, it doesn't belong to you.

Jeez, why don't you go sue a tobacco company, or chase an ambulance, or file malpractice suits for a living; that's about all you are good for. (These guys are like pigs looking for truffles.)
13 posted on 01/05/2007 1:03:02 PM PST by Herakles (Diversity is code word for anti-white racism)
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To: blam

As the old saying goes, possesion is 9/10th of the law. Or to quote Ghenghis Khan on the law of conquest. "You may have what you can take, you may keep what you can hold"


14 posted on 01/05/2007 1:16:29 PM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
Thanks Blam. These accusations of what was and wasn't stolen, exported illegally, etc, are getting ridiculous, and it reminds me of the No Gun Ri smear.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

15 posted on 01/05/2007 10:57:07 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Ahmedumbass and the mullahcracy is doomed. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: ASOC
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women.
16 posted on 01/05/2007 11:49:31 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf download. Link on my bio page.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I want one!


17 posted on 01/05/2007 11:51:52 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf download. Link on my bio page.)
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To: RightWhale

In the biblical account of the Egyptians following the Hebrews into the parted Red Sea before becoming fish food, some versions read that God made the chariot wheels jam. The mad Pharoah had probably ordered the Egyptian army to drive the chariots well beyond their regreasing limits and the slogging in the wet sand couldn't have helped.


18 posted on 01/06/2007 12:01:52 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Fred Nerks

My dad had one, but we sold it in a garage sale.

To the Getty Museum.

;')

We've got some other stuff left... let's see... here's the skull of Julius Caesar, I could let that go for $5000.... if you don't want to spend that much, for $50 I can sell you this, it's the skull of Julius Caesar as a boy.

Ah, the classics never wear out...


19 posted on 01/06/2007 12:01:54 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Ahmedumbass and the mullahcracy is doomed. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: ASOC

whoops, sorry, you did that on purpose, I'm an idiot. Laminations it is!


20 posted on 01/06/2007 1:18:19 AM PST by Fred Nerks (Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf download. Link on my bio page.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I don't have that kind of money, so I'll have to settle for the $50 one.

I'm going outside now, to light up a ziggarut.


21 posted on 01/06/2007 1:22:31 AM PST by Fred Nerks (Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf download. Link on my bio page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck; RightWhale; blam
"Lubrication in the form of animal fat or tallow is known to have been used, although the exact composition has not been determined." Here

"Lubricant found on a chariot circa 1,400 B.C. was probably mutton or beef tallow, with a melting point of 49.5°C." Here

Herodotus wrote of refining petroleum to get lubricants. And 1,900 years ago, Pliny the Elder wrote out a list of vegetable oils that were commonly used at the time for lubrication.

22 posted on 01/06/2007 1:53:07 AM PST by endthematrix (Both poverty and riches are the offspring of thought.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Sand in the bearings will ruin an otherwise exhilarating chariot outing.
23 posted on 01/06/2007 9:26:26 AM PST by RightWhale
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To: endthematrix

The front wheel bearings of my old Chevy were originally factory packed with mutton tallow. The repacking was with silicon grease, which at least doesn't smell so bad after long trips.


24 posted on 01/06/2007 9:34:00 AM PST by RightWhale
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To: Fred Nerks
LOL

Plastic does not use Greece, if it it PTFE, but the Bible does, at least in that one book.

The lamentation of the recently dead cannot be heard except by God. The wailing and cries of the living serves to remind us of the price of _________.


Sheets of PTFE are sold to RV'rs pulling 5th wheel rigs (yes, I am that old) to use on the hitch in lieu of grease. Not exactly bronze chariots, but in some cases, they cost much gold.
25 posted on 01/06/2007 10:25:17 AM PST by ASOC (The phrase "What if" or "If only" are for children.)
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To: ASOC
If they pick up congress-critters, their equipment will surly fail from lack of lucubration....
26 posted on 01/08/2007 12:06:16 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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