Skip to comments.The Tale of the Invisible Seven-Hundred-Mile Fence
Posted on 01/06/2007 8:31:55 AM PST by joanie-f
click here to read article
As to the whole business about terrorist threat coming from Mexico..please reconsider..its the islamic facists not poor mexicans. These people pick our fruit and clean our toilets they wish us no harm.
We have Nicaragua, soon we will have El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, and Mexico. One day, tomorrow or five years or fifteen years from now, we're going to take 5 to 10 million Mexicans and they are going into Dallas, into El Paso, into Houston, into New Mexico, into San Diego, and each one will have embedded in his mind the idea of killing ten Americans."
--Thomas Borge, Nicaraguan Interior Minister, as quoted in the Washington Times, March 27, 1985
And where is this Borge today...its been 22 years since he made that ridiculous statement. Do you really want to declare Mexico an enemy? Haven't we already enough of those? Goodness please take a course in enemy identification!
While that's true for most Mexicans, it doesn't apply to all. And even many of those who are here to do what you say are not at all friendly to Americans or to our way of life. This is truly a problem that has been exacerbated by the pols in Washington.
Answer me this. You need to work for 40 quarters (10 years) to qualify for Social Security benefits. How does it make you feel to know that the illegals you're talking about only need to work for 6 quarters to earn those same benefits?
I just read 'Requiem' in its entirety. That someone so far removed, by geographic distance and time, from our current desperate situation could manage to describe it so well is evidence, I guess, of the 'eternal-ness' of the degradation of the human condition. Kind of the same way de Tocqueville issued similar warnings in 'Democracy in America' the mid-nineteenth century, so many of which we are failing to heed.
We've already declared their drug cartels an enemy. Have you read about the National Guard troops who were run out of their post on the border this week?
Unfortunately, there comes a time when we must oppose the laws that shackle us and try to prevent us from doing what's right. The patriots of the Revolutionary War knew that when tey opposed the British and eventually won freedom for America. Those who supported the revolution but did not defend themselves, paid a dear price. We have over 20,000 gun laws on the books in this country today, and not a single one will prevent the next crime of murder, robbery or rape. In the 60's, AG Robert Kennedy stated that civil disobediance was acceptable if it was the only way to fight injustice.
Our choices are increasingly growing smaller for ways to defend our nation and protect it from those whose sole focus is themself and their power. The laws that restrain us from doing what is right, are written solely for us - NOT those who will defy them for their own ends. We have choices, albeit choices that, for many of us, stimulate a moral internal battle between obeying the law and defending America from its betrayers.
While I appreciate the intent behind your suggestion, I don't understand how you envision us accomplishing what you envision.
Our demands that the government be shut down will be ignored (just like our demands that the border be sealed).
Not only that, but you can't cause a sufficient number of citizens to express outrage when only a small majority of them know, or care, about what's going on at the border. The combination of unaccountability (on the part of our elected 'representatives') and apathy (on ours) doesn't make a very strong case for the success of a shut down.
You're simplifying the problem too much, HJ. Where are your charts (with figures made up out of whole cloth), pleas for tolerance, and phony claims that what seems irrational now will eventually work out for the best in the long run? < /sarc >
A politician you'll never be (possibly the best compliment you've been offered in recent memory? :)
We have choices, albeit choices that, for many of us, stimulate a moral internal battle between obeying the law and defending America from its betrayers.
Well, with $1.2 billion , you can build a lot of fence.
How many feet of fence have been built?
Well you can start crowing about that money being for fencing when it is actually spent on some.
I couldn't have said it better (and wouldn't even try). :-)
Yes, Joanie has a link to the same story right in this essay. We station our soldiers on the border, tell them that all they're there for is "administrative duties," and then expect them to face armed criminals who wouldn't think twice about offing them. Disgusting doesn't begin to describe this situation.
LOL! Well, it's certainly apparent you missed the other wasteful opportunities "Homeland Security" has in which to allocate that $1.2 billion fund besides physical fencing.
You apparently also missed the part that exempts any grade of one foot rise to ten foot run from the actual construction of any fencing structure at all, a greater grade often traversed by DC elite around Washington every day. Don't think for a second DC Stooges won't exercise that option fairly often to refuse building any barrier at all.
To re-quote; " Try actually finding out the facts next time before posting."
No feet. None has been. None will.
People who point to the money allocation in the budget are living in a dream world. When money is allocated for a reasonable project that is constitutional, that protects the citizenry, and that does nothing for the politician, most of the time it either goes unspent or gets allocated elsewhere, thanks to convenient codicils in the law.
Kipling's description is even more apt when applied to his Great Britain [or that of Post-WWI of T.E. Lawrence.] But even Churchill had it right:
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
--Winston S. Churchill
Too late to work within the system.
Is it too soon to start shooting the bastards?
I'd like anyone who finds comfort in this law, and the funding allocation, to read both in their entirety and then get back to us regarding the odds that a fence will ever be built.
It's so obvious that our 'leadership' has artfully inserted so many post scripts to this legislation that the money, if spent at all, will be spent on 'virtual wall' concepts (which are generally hollow efforts aimed at keeping us all quiet), simply because all of the stipulations regarding an actual physical wall cannot possibly be met.
The schemers are hard at work, and the majority of the citizenry hasn't a clue.
Just so. Now try some Don Marquis
In particular, this one:
A PoliticianLeader no more, be judged of us! Hailed Chief, and loved, of yore— Youth, and the faith of youth, cry out: Leader and Chief no more! We dreamed a Prophet, flushed with faith, Content to toil in pain If that his sacrifice might be, Somehow, his people’s gain. We saw a vision, and our blood Beat red and hot and strong: “Lead us (we cried) to war against Some foul, embattled wrong!” We dreamed a Warrior whose sword Was edged for sham and shame; We dreamed a Statesman far above The vulgar lust for fame. We were not cynics, and we dreamed A Man who made no truce With lies nor ancient privilege Nor old, entrenched abuse. We dreamed . . . we dreamed . . . Youth dreamed a dream! And even you forgot Yourself, one moment, and dreamed, too— Struck, while your mood was hot! Struck three or four good blows . . . and then Turned back to easier things: The cheap applause, the blatant mob, The praise of underlings! Praise . . . praise . . . was ever man so filled, So avid still, of praise? So hungry for the crowd’s acclaim, The sycophantic phrase? O you whom Greatness beckoned to . . . O swollen Littleness Who turned from Immortality To fawn upon Success! O blind with love of self, who led Youth’s vision to defeat, Bawling and brawling for rewards, Loud, in the common street! O you who were so quick to judge— Leader, and loved, of yore— Hear now the judgment of our youth: Leader and Chief no more!
You want to control DC's money? they'll either print more and borrow or confiscate what you have shorted them along with severe penalty and interest. To shut them down merely means those with "entitlements" and living off taxpayer aide will be the first to suffer the ill effects, not the Stiff Suit politician of DC who has feathered his own nest well. Since they hold the resource strings - it's probable their hold-out would endure far longer than the common person engaging in revolt.
I believe Claire's answer would now be 'no,' but you'd have to ask her. :)
Thanks for the excellent recent responses.
Am on my way out the door for the afternoon, but will digest them, and respond, later today.
hey put me on your ping list I love reading your posts.
You can also mark this down: a physical barrier cannot simply be turned off when the public isn't looking - it will still perform the task of making it difficult to cross, buying time for offenders to be observed. OTOH, a barrier of the virtual type can be "turned off", ordered unmonitored, or simply abandoned as political pressure subsides.
The virtual fence is the US government's fence of choice.
Would you please explain to us all why 30% of our prison beds is taken by these *poor mexicans* who wish us no harm?
I know these *poor mexicans* are supposed to have wonderful family values and all that would make them great citizens.
Would you please explain to us all why so many of them refuse to cross at a Port of Entry and why they refuse to assimilate themselves to us?
Would you please explain to us all why so many of them were carrying the Mexican flag during their marches last fall?
Would you please explain to us all why so many of them refuse to learn the English language?
While you are at it, please explain why our President appears more interested in preserving the Mexican culture than he is the American culture.
Just a few more simple questions, are you Hispanic? If you are not, why are you so interested in helping the *poor mexicans*? Have you adopted any of these *poor mexicans* yet?
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be NO divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
We have room for but ONE flag, the American flag...
We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...
and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Well-written and provocative.
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Well, I do, in a sort of back-handed way. No fence or wall, left unguarded, is going to accomplish anything by its existance alone. It'll have to be backed up, whether by the Border Patrol or a military force dedicated to the task, like Germany's Bundesgrenzeschutze, technically a police organization with arrest powers, but armed and equipped in military fashion, to include armoured vehicles.
Among our southern border there are 24 U.S. counties contiguous with Mexican territory, spread along four states. I'd suggest that the posting of a battalion of troops [circa 750 personnel] in each county, with each state providing a brigade headquarters and support elements, would be a good initial start; from there it can be determined where more troops are needed, or less. Similarly, major Army posts are available in Texas [Ft Hood, Ft Bliss, Ft Sam Houston] and Arizona [Fort Huachuca and the Yuma Proving Ground] and Marine installations in California, [MCAS Miramar/and MCRD San Diego, Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms and the Marine Coirps Logistics Base at Barstow] so those services might be better suited to operations in those states.
The required force would thereby be around 17,700 troops, about divisional strength, in normal practice run by a Major [2 stars] General. With or without a fence/wall, such a force would require only a Presidential Finding that the incursions from Mexico represent a clear and present danger to the stability and authority of the United States; US troops have been so tasked before.
ICE/Homeland Security/Customs/Immigration personnel thereby freed up could then be set to the task of internal security efforts in cleaning house of the 20-million illegal invaders now present.
In short: we need troops along our southern border as much or more than we need a fence, and we REALLY need a President capable of taking that kind of leadership action.
I place the blame for the lack of security of the border squarely at the hands of the do-nothing Republicans.
They had 12 years - TWELVE YEARS - literally owning the government - all three houses. A president who as a former governor of a border state was/is well aware of the problems and only offers an amnesty program.
We only got the border fence as a desperate attempt to keep the base for this past election cycle.
There are only a handful of Republicans who are truly interested in securing the borders: Tancredo, Hunter and a couple of others.
The rest voted for it knowing it wouldn't be funded.
It just sickens me.
It's not a good idea to post this. Not even in jest.
I believe Claire's answer would now be 'no,' but you'd have to ask her. :)
She wrote that quite some time ago, in 1995 or thereabouts. You might find her more recent thoughts on the subject to be of interest. Slaves.
...I do believe that a fight is inevitable, whether that's a fight in the streets or the trenches, or whether that is some sort of confrontation that may not involve arms but may nevertheless involve violence and head-to-head action. I think that's inevitable, and I think more and more people are coming to the conclusion that it is.
April 19th, as you all know, is a day in history when many people _have_ taken up arms, when they have been _forced_ to take up arms. Peaceable people in Lexington and Concord, desperate people in the Warsaw ghetto. Even when they had no hope, or little hope, they took up arms. But here we stand, and although a lot of us have arms with us, or not far from us, we're not ready to "take up arms" yet.
But I hope we're preparing ourselves. I hope we're at least thinking about it.
In the last year and a half, since I originally wrote those frustrated, angry words, things have gotten a hell of a lot worse. And it's almost scary how little the disaster that we're in the middle of has been acknowledged. ...
Although it may be just a drop in the bucket, my husband and I have been impelled to try to do something!! We have posted a petition for all to sign on lawopenforum.com to urge Congress to vote against amnesty, or be voted out themselves.
Well, last estimate I heard was that it was projected to take $20 billion to build the fence, so they would just make it virtual.
It has been said by others that the time has indeed come when it is morally right to begin shooting at least some of the bastards, but that it may not yet be practical to do so.
However, that was said nearly a decade ago. And some of the bastards have indeed turned up shot dead.
The FBI has offered a million-dollar reward, but in five years time, have only managed to round up a few of their favourite scapegoats as suspects.
Well written and so true-thanx.Not long ago i had a conversation with a co-worker(recent graduate of USF).The conversation turned to politics/social issues.I asked him what he thought about the problem of illegal immigration.He looked at me with a straight face and asked "what problem?".This supposedly intelligent(?)and educated young man was totaly clueless.I'm afraid most Americans fit in that catagory.
BTTT for reading later.
Thank you joanie-f....I KNOW this will be another GREAT essay...that will be ignored by some, scoffed at by others, and prayerfully...make others THINK and finally ACT.
One quick question...what exactly did those people in DC do FOR this country's borders when they were in power?
Well...now...that just sounds like a lot of sour grapes.
I think Grammie just pegged you...
She did. An excellent coup de grace without breaking a sweat.
WHAT??? (insert a name here, like you have lowered yourself to), this "so called" fool has the ONLY two state Senators that actually stood up against the Liberals and Rino's in the Senate.
Check you voting records on Alabama senators... 6 years President Bush has hammered them to join him for lowering the border bar on immigration for the republican party
BTW... sir the only reason we have solid true republicans here in bama is because it seems we don't suffer your RINO's down this way. Because we actually stand for something that the RINO's have long forgot.
BTW.. a "fool" to me is someone that can see the truth the Bible puts out about subjects but rejects them. You may vote for a RINO that spits on subjects, but I will not. Catering Homosexuality, encouraging illegal immigration, turning a blind eye to abortion, etc...
Romans 3:8 (King James Version)
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Because people like you have turned a blind eye to election people, saying lets support RINO's so that good might come possible later of it, we now have had a Congress that was said to be conservative, but couldn't pass a dang thing to prove it. A last second bill that was dittled with changing the wall into something like a video game "virtual" is not what I call an accomplishment.
Heck, we had an congresscritter that was a known child molestor and because of RINO PCism was allowed to roam free until his damnation was brought to light by the enemy... Just as the Bible said would happen.
I will leave you with a quote...
Excerp from Pilgrim's Progress (Children's version by Tim Dowley)...
"Thanks to YOU people, THEY run the show now. "
Um, no, I sure did my part to keep them out of power.
It isn't fun to watch the spittle come off someone spewing like you just did.
bump to read later
The fence will be of only modest benefit as long as employers can hire illegals with relative impunity. They will come. Economics is the universal solvent - of borders, and of laws that stand athwart its path.
Guatemalan commandos, Mexican drug cartels and the U.S.We have Nicaragua, soon we will have El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, and Mexico. One day, tomorrow or five years or fifteen years from now, we're going to take 5 to 10 million Mexicans and they are going into Dallas, into El Paso, into Houston, into New Mexico, into San Diego, and each one will have embedded in his mind the idea of killing ten Americans."
Mexico was jolted by revelations this week by Defense Secretary Gen. Ricardo Clemente Vega tying elite Guatemalan commandoes to a Mexican drug cartel operating on both sides of the US-Mexico border. In an appearance before the Mexican Senate, Gen. Clemente announced the detention of five Guatemalan nationals in Chiapas state earlier this month on arms and immigration law violations. The defense secretary said a probe was underway examining possible links between the men all reputed to be members or ex-members of the Guatemalan army's counterinsurgency unit known as the Kabiles and Los Zetas, the heavily armed enforcers of Mexicos Tamaulipas-based Gulf Cartel.
My understanding is that he's one of the deditos [*little fingers*] for one of the nastier drug cartels. But you might look for him to turn up *here*, acting on behalf of his old boss again.
In the summer of 1984, Ronald Reagan offered photos of narcotrafficante Pablo Escobar and one of Borges' aides, Federico Vaughan, loading Escobar's coke onto a C-123 cargo plane.
I know that every American parent concerned about the drug problem will be outraged to learn that top Nicaraguan government officials are deeply involved in drug trafficking." "This picture, secretly taken at a military airfield outside Managua, shows Federico Vaughan, a top aide to one of the nine commandants who rule Nicaragua, loading an aircraft with illegal narcotics bound for the United States."
--President Ronald Reagan, 16 July 1986.
Do you really want to declare Mexico an enemy? Haven't we already enough of those?
We aren't the ones invading them. Though it may come to that again, as in 1916. Whether or not I want it is immaterial; there it is.
Goodness please take a course in enemy identification!
Okay! Glad to oblige....
Thank you for the ping, joanie-f. I'll look at this more closely later .... have bookmarked it.
As Larry Elder said yesterday, neither party is really opposed to illegal immigration.
-- The Democrats want them as voters.
-- The Republicans don't want to be perceived as racists.
-- Both Democrats and Republicans are business owners and want the cheap labor.
You have probably already been pinged at least once, but wanted to return your thoughtfulness.