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The Tale of the Invisible Seven-Hundred-Mile Fence
self | 6 January, 2007 | joanie-f

Posted on 01/06/2007 8:31:55 AM PST by joanie-f

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To: archy

As to the whole business about terrorist threat coming from Mexico..please reconsider..its the islamic facists not poor mexicans. These people pick our fruit and clean our toilets they wish us no harm.

We have Nicaragua, soon we will have El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, and Mexico. One day, tomorrow or five years or fifteen years from now, we're going to take 5 to 10 million Mexicans and they are going into Dallas, into El Paso, into Houston, into New Mexico, into San Diego, and each one will have embedded in his mind the idea of killing ten Americans."

--Thomas Borge, Nicaraguan Interior Minister, as quoted in the Washington Times, March 27, 1985



And where is this Borge today...its been 22 years since he made that ridiculous statement. Do you really want to declare Mexico an enemy? Haven't we already enough of those? Goodness please take a course in enemy identification!


51 posted on 01/06/2007 9:50:31 AM PST by Westpole
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To: Westpole; joanie-f
These people pick our fruit and clean our toilets they wish us no harm.

While that's true for most Mexicans, it doesn't apply to all. And even many of those who are here to do what you say are not at all friendly to Americans or to our way of life. This is truly a problem that has been exacerbated by the pols in Washington.

Answer me this. You need to work for 40 quarters (10 years) to qualify for Social Security benefits. How does it make you feel to know that the illegals you're talking about only need to work for 6 quarters to earn those same benefits?

52 posted on 01/06/2007 9:57:41 AM PST by HiJinx (Ask me about Support for our Troops)
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To: archy

I just read 'Requiem' in its entirety. That someone so far removed, by geographic distance and time, from our current desperate situation could manage to describe it so well is evidence, I guess, of the 'eternal-ness' of the degradation of the human condition. Kind of the same way de Tocqueville issued similar warnings in 'Democracy in America' the mid-nineteenth century, so many of which we are failing to heed.


53 posted on 01/06/2007 10:02:30 AM PST by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: Westpole
Do you really want to declare Mexico an enemy?

We've already declared their drug cartels an enemy. Have you read about the National Guard troops who were run out of their post on the border this week?

54 posted on 01/06/2007 10:04:19 AM PST by HiJinx (Ask me about Support for our Troops)
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To: joanie-f
the prospect of that feat ever being accomplished is becoming more difficult by the day -- thanks to an increasing number of laws (one of which was co-authored by a man who may well be the next republican presidential nominee)aimed at silencing the voice of the average citizen.

Unfortunately, there comes a time when we must oppose the laws that shackle us and try to prevent us from doing what's right. The patriots of the Revolutionary War knew that when tey opposed the British and eventually won freedom for America. Those who supported the revolution but did not defend themselves, paid a dear price. We have over 20,000 gun laws on the books in this country today, and not a single one will prevent the next crime of murder, robbery or rape. In the 60's, AG Robert Kennedy stated that civil disobediance was acceptable if it was the only way to fight injustice.

Our choices are increasingly growing smaller for ways to defend our nation and protect it from those whose sole focus is themself and their power. The laws that restrain us from doing what is right, are written solely for us - NOT those who will defy them for their own ends. We have choices, albeit choices that, for many of us, stimulate a moral internal battle between obeying the law and defending America from its betrayers.

55 posted on 01/06/2007 10:06:28 AM PST by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: Ron2

While I appreciate the intent behind your suggestion, I don't understand how you envision us accomplishing what you envision.

Our demands that the government be shut down will be ignored (just like our demands that the border be sealed).

Not only that, but you can't cause a sufficient number of citizens to express outrage when only a small majority of them know, or care, about what's going on at the border. The combination of unaccountability (on the part of our elected 'representatives') and apathy (on ours) doesn't make a very strong case for the success of a shut down.


56 posted on 01/06/2007 10:07:51 AM PST by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: HiJinx
You need to work for 40 quarters (10 years) to qualify for Social Security benefits. How does it make you feel to know that the illegals you're talking about only need to work for 6 quarters to earn those same benefits?

You're simplifying the problem too much, HJ. Where are your charts (with figures made up out of whole cloth), pleas for tolerance, and phony claims that what seems irrational now will eventually work out for the best in the long run? < /sarc >

A politician you'll never be (possibly the best compliment you've been offered in recent memory? :)

57 posted on 01/06/2007 10:11:16 AM PST by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: DustyMoment
So beautifully said -- especially:

We have choices, albeit choices that, for many of us, stimulate a moral internal battle between obeying the law and defending America from its betrayers.

58 posted on 01/06/2007 10:13:05 AM PST by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: MNJohnnie
The $1.2 billion for the Fence is in the Homeland Security budget signed Oct 6th 2006.

Well, with $1.2 billion , you can build a lot of fence.

How many feet of fence have been built?

None?

Well you can start crowing about that money being for fencing when it is actually spent on some.

59 posted on 01/06/2007 10:23:49 AM PST by zeugma (If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.)
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To: joanie-f

I couldn't have said it better (and wouldn't even try). :-)


60 posted on 01/06/2007 10:23:50 AM PST by Minuteman23
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To: HiJinx

Yes, Joanie has a link to the same story right in this essay. We station our soldiers on the border, tell them that all they're there for is "administrative duties," and then expect them to face armed criminals who wouldn't think twice about offing them. Disgusting doesn't begin to describe this situation.


61 posted on 01/06/2007 10:26:13 AM PST by Minuteman23
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To: MNJohnnie; joanie-f
"The $1.2 billion for the Fence is in the Homeland Security budget signed Oct 6th 2006."

LOL! Well, it's certainly apparent you missed the other wasteful opportunities "Homeland Security" has in which to allocate that $1.2 billion fund besides physical fencing.

You apparently also missed the part that exempts any grade of one foot rise to ten foot run from the actual construction of any fencing structure at all, a greater grade often traversed by DC elite around Washington every day. Don't think for a second DC Stooges won't exercise that option fairly often to refuse building any barrier at all.

To re-quote; " Try actually finding out the facts next time before posting."

joanie-f,
Nice essay.

62 posted on 01/06/2007 10:28:17 AM PST by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: zeugma
How many feet of fence have been built?

No feet. None has been. None will.

People who point to the money allocation in the budget are living in a dream world. When money is allocated for a reasonable project that is constitutional, that protects the citizenry, and that does nothing for the politician, most of the time it either goes unspent or gets allocated elsewhere, thanks to convenient codicils in the law.

63 posted on 01/06/2007 10:29:37 AM PST by Minuteman23
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To: joanie-f
I just read 'Requiem' in its entirety. That someone so far removed, by geographic distance and time, from our current desperate situation could manage to describe it so well is evidence, I guess, of the 'eternal-ness' of the degradation of the human condition.

Kipling's description is even more apt when applied to his Great Britain [or that of Post-WWI of T.E. Lawrence.] But even Churchill had it right:

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."


--Winston S. Churchill

64 posted on 01/06/2007 10:31:00 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Westpole
Six gang rapes by illegal aliens,
Smugglers of Illegal Aliens Cause Rising Violence in Arizona
America as Predators Paradise
More illegal aliens tried in gang rapes

Man (illegal alien), 19, accused of lewd and lascivious acts with girl, 13
Illegal aliens linked to gang-rape wave

14 farm workers arrested in kidnap, rape
Sting rounds up 25 foreigners for sex crimes
Illegal alien rapes puppy
Study: 1 million sex crimes by illegals - 100 offenders crossing border daily
Charge is sex with 13 year old
Border Sex Slave Ring Defendant Gets 10 Years

Jeffersonville suspect caught in Louisville (molested 8 year old girl)
Court dates loom in taxi, school rapes
Man sentenced to 20 years under new sex offender law (raped 8 year old)
Illegal immigrant rapes one woman and assaults another
4 illegal aliens gang-rape woman in NYC,

Another Child and drug Smuggling Arrest at Hidalgo Port
16 Year Old Illegal Immigrant sentenced to 33 years for rape and burglary
Feds Bust 25 Illegal Alien Sexual Predators in L.A.
Illegal alien suspect in newlywed's rape arrested in Texas
Calif. fugitive wanted on sex charges arrested at Canadian border
Man, 19, accused of lewd and lascivious acts with girl, 13

Illegal Immigrant Arrested for Rape of Newlywed
Jamaican Immigrant Sentenced for Rape of 13-Year-Old
Fugitive Sexual Predators Wanted by Interpol Nabbed in New Jersey
Illegal immigrant denied bail reduction (for trying to abduct 11 year old girl)
Child-rape suspect tells police he has HIV
(raped 5 year old and knew he had HIV)
Man pleads guilty in Frame Park rape
Illegal immigrant pleads guilty to assaulting 6-year-old girl

Illegal Immigrant Suspected in Rapes and Dozens of Sexual Assaults,
More Details on Illegal Immigrant Accused of Raping Children,
Illegal aliens linked to gang-rape wave - The crime epidemic no one will talk about?,
Outrage as 'rapist' vanishes,
Illegal immigrants charged with sexual assault on two 13 year old girls,
Illegal immigrant is given 10 years in gross sexual imposition case,

Theories swirl around Friday's kidnapping, rape,
Illegal immigrant accused of impregnating 10-year-old girl
“Worst of the worst” arrested during Special Operation
, Illegal alien kidnaps and rapes 9 year old girl,
Immigrant Suspected in 7 Sexual Assaults,
Police Looking For Illegal Immigrant Suspected Of Raping A Child,
Illegal Immigrant Charged with Sodomizing Young Boy,
Members of Mexican Sex Slave Ring Sentenced,
Illegal alien jailed for sexual assault of girl, 14

Man dies in shootout with Calif. cops (illegal immigrant)

,
16-year-old illegal immigrant sentenced for brutal knifepoint rape
, Naked illegal alien In Mask Attacks Babysitter,
36 Immigrant Sex Offenders Arrested In Orange County
,
Illegal immigrant is given 10 years in gross sexual imposition case,
65 posted on 01/06/2007 10:32:42 AM PST by ckilmer
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To: Westpole
The press secretary for the California Republican Party is the son of illegal aliens who came the USA 35 years ago. In this article he chronicles how in recent years there has been a massive change in the number and kind of illegals coming north. Including a crimnal element that is causing a deterioration in the quality of life of Americans. Consider this article Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily Death toll in 2006 far overshadows total U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, Afghanistan

People have been referring to the Captains Quarters as a rebuke to the assertions of the article. The Captain's Quarters makes the assertion that -- for the numbers to be true -- it would have to be the case that a small number of people were committing a lot of crimes. That is to say far outside the statistical norm for the USA. The problem is that he didn't actually check the federal stats. As it happens it is the case that illegals tend to be very repeat offenders.

Below are some government stats to back up the article's assertioms

From the FBI crime statistics * An estimated 16,692 persons were murdered nationwide in 2005, an increase of 3.4 percent from the 2004 figure. * Murder comprised 1.2 percent of the overall estimated number of violent crimes in 2005. (Based on Table 1.) * There were an estimated 5.6 murders per 100,000 inhabitants.

Illegal Alien Crime Wave

On April 7, 2005, the US Justice Department issued a report on criminal aliens that were incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails. In the population study of 55,322 illegal aliens, researchers found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990. They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests. Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses.

CRIMINAL HISTORY

More than two-thirds of the defendants charged with an immigration offense were identified as having been previously arrested. Thirty-six percent had been arrested on at least 5 prior occasions; 22%, 2 to 4 times; and 12%,1 time. Sixty-one percent of those defendants had been convicted at least once; 18%, 5 or more times; 26%, 2 to 4 times; and 17%, 1 time. Of those charged, 49% had previously been convicted of a felony: 20% of a drug offense; 18%, a violent offense; and 11%, other felony offenses. Twelve percent had previously been convicted of a misdemeanor. Defendants charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. Nine in ten had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, half had been arrested on at least 5 prior occasions. Fifty-six percent of those charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted of a violent or drug-related felony. By contrast, under half of those charged with alien smuggling, a third of those charged with unlawful entry, and just over a quarter those charged with misuse of visas and other charges had previously been arrested. The criminal histories of these defendants were generally less extensive: more than 70% had been previously arrested fewer than 5 times. Sources: US Department of Homeland Security, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, National Security Institute, National Association of Chiefs of Police, US Department of Justice
66 posted on 01/06/2007 10:33:18 AM PST by ckilmer
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To: RadioAstronomer; Dead Corpse; joanie-f; archy
It's already too late

Too late to work within the system.

Is it too soon to start shooting the bastards? 

67 posted on 01/06/2007 10:34:48 AM PST by zeugma (If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.)
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To: azhenfud

Excellent response.

I'd like anyone who finds comfort in this law, and the funding allocation, to read both in their entirety and then get back to us regarding the odds that a fence will ever be built.

It's so obvious that our 'leadership' has artfully inserted so many post scripts to this legislation that the money, if spent at all, will be spent on 'virtual wall' concepts (which are generally hollow efforts aimed at keeping us all quiet), simply because all of the stipulations regarding an actual physical wall cannot possibly be met.

The schemers are hard at work, and the majority of the citizenry hasn't a clue.


68 posted on 01/06/2007 10:35:59 AM PST by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: joanie-f
I just read 'Requiem' in its entirety. That someone so far removed, by geographic distance and time, from our current desperate situation could manage to describe it so well is evidence, I guess, of the 'eternal-ness' of the degradation of the human condition.

Just so. Now try some Don Marquis

In particular, this one:

A Politician
Leader no more, be judged of us!
  Hailed Chief, and loved, of yore—
Youth, and the faith of youth, cry out:
  Leader and Chief no more!

We dreamed a Prophet, flushed with faith,
  Content to toil in pain
If that his sacrifice might be,
  Somehow, his people’s gain.

We saw a vision, and our blood
  Beat red and hot and strong:
“Lead us (we cried) to war against
  Some foul, embattled wrong!”

We dreamed a Warrior whose sword
  Was edged for sham and shame;
We dreamed a Statesman far above
  The vulgar lust for fame.

We were not cynics, and we dreamed
  A Man who made no truce
With lies nor ancient privilege
  Nor old, entrenched abuse.

We dreamed . . . we dreamed . . .  Youth dreamed
      a dream!
  And even you forgot
Yourself, one moment, and dreamed, too—
  Struck, while your mood was hot!

Struck three or four good blows . . . and then
  Turned back to easier things:
The cheap applause, the blatant mob,
  The praise of underlings!

Praise . . . praise . . . was ever man so filled,
  So avid still, of praise?
So hungry for the crowd’s acclaim,
  The sycophantic phrase?

O you whom Greatness beckoned to . . .
  O swollen Littleness
Who turned from Immortality
  To fawn upon Success!

O blind with love of self, who led
  Youth’s vision to defeat,
Bawling and brawling for rewards,
  Loud, in the common street!

O you who were so quick to judge—
  Leader, and loved, of yore—
Hear now the judgment of our youth:
  Leader and Chief no more!

69 posted on 01/06/2007 10:36:30 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Ron2
"I'm not preaching the idea of taking over our government, but I am saying that our people can shut them down if we really want to."

You want to control DC's money? they'll either print more and borrow or confiscate what you have shorted them along with severe penalty and interest. To shut them down merely means those with "entitlements" and living off taxpayer aide will be the first to suffer the ill effects, not the Stiff Suit politician of DC who has feathered his own nest well. Since they hold the resource strings - it's probable their hold-out would endure far longer than the common person engaging in revolt.

70 posted on 01/06/2007 10:39:16 AM PST by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: zeugma
Is it too soon to start shooting the bastards?

I believe Claire's answer would now be 'no,' but you'd have to ask her. :)

71 posted on 01/06/2007 10:39:19 AM PST by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: archy; ckilmer

Thanks for the excellent recent responses.

Am on my way out the door for the afternoon, but will digest them, and respond, later today.


72 posted on 01/06/2007 10:41:08 AM PST by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: joanie-f

bump


73 posted on 01/06/2007 10:44:08 AM PST by jpsb
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To: joanie-f

hey put me on your ping list I love reading your posts.


74 posted on 01/06/2007 10:45:09 AM PST by jpsb
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To: joanie-f

You can also mark this down: a physical barrier cannot simply be turned off when the public isn't looking - it will still perform the task of making it difficult to cross, buying time for offenders to be observed. OTOH, a barrier of the virtual type can be "turned off", ordered unmonitored, or simply abandoned as political pressure subsides.

The virtual fence is the US government's fence of choice.


75 posted on 01/06/2007 10:47:12 AM PST by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Westpole
please reconsider..its the islamic facists not poor mexicans. These people pick our fruit and clean our toilets they wish us no harm.

Would you please explain to us all why 30% of our prison beds is taken by these *poor mexicans* who wish us no harm?

I know these *poor mexicans* are supposed to have wonderful family values and all that would make them great citizens.

Would you please explain to us all why so many of them refuse to cross at a Port of Entry and why they refuse to assimilate themselves to us?

Would you please explain to us all why so many of them were carrying the Mexican flag during their marches last fall?

Would you please explain to us all why so many of them refuse to learn the English language?

While you are at it, please explain why our President appears more interested in preserving the Mexican culture than he is the American culture.

Just a few more simple questions, are you Hispanic? If you are not, why are you so interested in helping the *poor mexicans*? Have you adopted any of these *poor mexicans* yet?

________________________________________________________

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...

There can be NO divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.

We have room for but ONE flag, the American flag...

We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...

and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

76 posted on 01/06/2007 11:03:17 AM PST by B4Ranch (Press "1" for English, or Press "2" and you will be disconnected until you learn to speak English.)
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To: joanie-f; Howlin; onyx; Clemenza; Petronski; GummyIII; SevenofNine; veronica; Xenalyte; ...

Well-written and provocative.

Misc ping list
SoCal ping list


77 posted on 01/06/2007 11:08:22 AM PST by EveningStar
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To: joanie-f
I'd like anyone who finds comfort in this law, and the funding allocation, to read both in their entirety and then get back to us regarding the odds that a fence will ever be built.

Well, I do, in a sort of back-handed way. No fence or wall, left unguarded, is going to accomplish anything by its existance alone. It'll have to be backed up, whether by the Border Patrol or a military force dedicated to the task, like Germany's Bundesgrenzeschutze, technically a police organization with arrest powers, but armed and equipped in military fashion, to include armoured vehicles.

Among our southern border there are 24 U.S. counties contiguous with Mexican territory, spread along four states. I'd suggest that the posting of a battalion of troops [circa 750 personnel] in each county, with each state providing a brigade headquarters and support elements, would be a good initial start; from there it can be determined where more troops are needed, or less. Similarly, major Army posts are available in Texas [Ft Hood, Ft Bliss, Ft Sam Houston] and Arizona [Fort Huachuca and the Yuma Proving Ground] and Marine installations in California, [MCAS Miramar/and MCRD San Diego, Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms and the Marine Coirps Logistics Base at Barstow] so those services might be better suited to operations in those states.

The required force would thereby be around 17,700 troops, about divisional strength, in normal practice run by a Major [2 stars] General. With or without a fence/wall, such a force would require only a Presidential Finding that the incursions from Mexico represent a clear and present danger to the stability and authority of the United States; US troops have been so tasked before.

ICE/Homeland Security/Customs/Immigration personnel thereby freed up could then be set to the task of internal security efforts in cleaning house of the 20-million illegal invaders now present.

In short: we need troops along our southern border as much or more than we need a fence, and we REALLY need a President capable of taking that kind of leadership action.


78 posted on 01/06/2007 11:08:25 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: joanie-f

I place the blame for the lack of security of the border squarely at the hands of the do-nothing Republicans.

They had 12 years - TWELVE YEARS - literally owning the government - all three houses. A president who as a former governor of a border state was/is well aware of the problems and only offers an amnesty program.

We only got the border fence as a desperate attempt to keep the base for this past election cycle.

There are only a handful of Republicans who are truly interested in securing the borders: Tancredo, Hunter and a couple of others.

The rest voted for it knowing it wouldn't be funded.

It just sickens me.


79 posted on 01/06/2007 11:13:57 AM PST by Basheva
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To: zeugma

It's not a good idea to post this. Not even in jest.


80 posted on 01/06/2007 11:15:56 AM PST by EveningStar
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To: joanie-f
Is it too soon to start shooting the bastards?

I believe Claire's answer would now be 'no,' but you'd have to ask her. :)

She wrote that quite some time ago, in 1995 or thereabouts. You might find her more recent thoughts on the subject to be of interest. Slaves.

...I do believe that a fight is inevitable, whether that's a fight in the streets or the trenches, or whether that is some sort of confrontation that may not involve arms but may nevertheless involve violence and head-to-head action. I think that's inevitable, and I think more and more people are coming to the conclusion that it is.

April 19th, as you all know, is a day in history when many people _have_ taken up arms, when they have been _forced_ to take up arms. Peaceable people in Lexington and Concord, desperate people in the Warsaw ghetto. Even when they had no hope, or little hope, they took up arms. But here we stand, and although a lot of us have arms with us, or not far from us, we're not ready to "take up arms" yet.

But I hope we're preparing ourselves. I hope we're at least thinking about it.

In the last year and a half, since I originally wrote those frustrated, angry words, things have gotten a hell of a lot worse. And it's almost scary how little the disaster that we're in the middle of has been acknowledged. ...

81 posted on 01/06/2007 11:23:40 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: MNJohnnie
Too bad for your claim in this article is totally false. Try actually finding out the facts next time before posting. The $1.2 billion for the Fence is in the Homeland Security budget signed Oct 6th 2006.
Now instead of continuing to whine about an Issue you obviously know nothing about, why don't you go ask your heros the Democrats what THEY plan to do when that $1.2 billion is spent?

Illegals : Last-minute bill changes funding for border fence into virtual fence instead

82 posted on 01/06/2007 11:27:57 AM PST by LowOiL (Paul wrote, "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9))
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To: joanie-f

Although it may be just a drop in the bucket, my husband and I have been impelled to try to do something!! We have posted a petition for all to sign on lawopenforum.com to urge Congress to vote against amnesty, or be voted out themselves.


83 posted on 01/06/2007 11:28:39 AM PST by righteousindignation
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To: MNJohnnie

Well, last estimate I heard was that it was projected to take $20 billion to build the fence, so they would just make it virtual.


84 posted on 01/06/2007 11:28:43 AM PST by FastCoyote
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To: zeugma
Is it too soon to start shooting the bastards?

It has been said by others that the time has indeed come when it is morally right to begin shooting at least some of the bastards, but that it may not yet be practical to do so.

However, that was said nearly a decade ago. And some of the bastards have indeed turned up shot dead.

The FBI has offered a million-dollar reward, but in five years time, have only managed to round up a few of their favourite scapegoats as suspects.

85 posted on 01/06/2007 11:35:08 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: joanie-f

Well written and so true-thanx.Not long ago i had a conversation with a co-worker(recent graduate of USF).The conversation turned to politics/social issues.I asked him what he thought about the problem of illegal immigration.He looked at me with a straight face and asked "what problem?".This supposedly intelligent(?)and educated young man was totaly clueless.I'm afraid most Americans fit in that catagory.


86 posted on 01/06/2007 11:37:43 AM PST by Thombo2
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To: joanie-f; FastCoyote; LowOiL; zeugma
I see. Our New SOP is in place. Do not bother trying to teach factual reality to the Know Nothings. Any fact that is not screamed at them by con men like Tancredo, who merely is aiming to keep the issue in hysteric panic mode so those campaign contribution keep flowing to his pocket, is "a lie".

The facts do not change just because they contradict the comfortable little bubble world the anti Illegals are busy building between themselves and reality.

So wander over and ask those buddies of your the Democrats, the people you Know Nothings spent all your time the last year virtually campaigning for with your rabid refusal to learn even ONE thing that was going on in DC, what THEY are going to do about your issue. Thanks to YOU people, THEY run the show now. You can quit wasting our time with your hysterics. The Republican House members fought tooth and nail to kill "Amnesty" and YOU all fired them for it.

Go to DC now and see if anyone cares in the least to hear what any of you people have to say about Immigration now. You fools just fired the ONLY people in DC who were on your side!
87 posted on 01/06/2007 11:59:53 AM PST by MNJohnnie (I do not forgive Senator John McCain for helping destroy everything we built since 1980.)
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To: joanie-f

BTTT for reading later.

Thank you joanie-f....I KNOW this will be another GREAT essay...that will be ignored by some, scoffed at by others, and prayerfully...make others THINK and finally ACT.


88 posted on 01/06/2007 12:00:07 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (Get right with God....eternity is a long time.....)
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To: MNJohnnie
You fools just fired the ONLY people in DC who were on your side!

One quick question...what exactly did those people in DC do FOR this country's borders when they were in power?

89 posted on 01/06/2007 12:03:28 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (Get right with God....eternity is a long time.....)
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To: MNJohnnie; Brad's Gramma

Well...now...that just sounds like a lot of sour grapes.

I think Grammie just pegged you...


90 posted on 01/06/2007 12:10:13 PM PST by HiJinx (Ask me about Support for our Troops)
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To: HiJinx
I think Grammie just pegged you...

She did. An excellent coup de grace without breaking a sweat.

91 posted on 01/06/2007 12:23:22 PM PST by processing please hold (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage made in heaven.)
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To: MNJohnnie
You fools just fired the ONLY people in DC who were on your side!

WHAT??? (insert a name here, like you have lowered yourself to), this "so called" fool has the ONLY two state Senators that actually stood up against the Liberals and Rino's in the Senate.

Check you voting records on Alabama senators... 6 years President Bush has hammered them to join him for lowering the border bar on immigration for the republican party

BTW... sir the only reason we have solid true republicans here in bama is because it seems we don't suffer your RINO's down this way. Because we actually stand for something that the RINO's have long forgot.

BTW.. a "fool" to me is someone that can see the truth the Bible puts out about subjects but rejects them. You may vote for a RINO that spits on subjects, but I will not. Catering Homosexuality, encouraging illegal immigration, turning a blind eye to abortion, etc...

Romans 3:8 (King James Version)
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Because people like you have turned a blind eye to election people, saying lets support RINO's so that good might come possible later of it, we now have had a Congress that was said to be conservative, but couldn't pass a dang thing to prove it. A last second bill that was dittled with changing the wall into something like a video game "virtual" is not what I call an accomplishment.

Heck, we had an congresscritter that was a known child molestor and because of RINO PCism was allowed to roam free until his damnation was brought to light by the enemy... Just as the Bible said would happen.

I will leave you with a quote...

Excerp from Pilgrim's Progress (Children's version by Tim Dowley)...

.

Reference John 10:1 -- He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold but climbeth up another way, the same is a thief and a robber.
.

We were born in the Land of Emptiness, and we're on our way to the Heavenly City," they replied.
"Then why did you jump over the wall, instead of coming through the little wooden gate? Don't you know that anyone who climbs in a different way is a thief?"
"It's a long way to the wooden gate," answered Mr. On-the-Surface. "Our people always take this short-cut. They've done it for hundreds of years, so it can't be wrong."
"But it's against the rules."
"It doesn't matter how we got in," said the men.
"If we're in, we're in."
"I walk by the Master's rules; you go your own way," said Christian.

92 posted on 01/06/2007 12:37:37 PM PST by LowOiL (Paul wrote, "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9))
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To: MNJohnnie

"Thanks to YOU people, THEY run the show now. "

Um, no, I sure did my part to keep them out of power.

It isn't fun to watch the spittle come off someone spewing like you just did.


93 posted on 01/06/2007 12:54:25 PM PST by FastCoyote
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To: pax_et_bonum

bump to read later


94 posted on 01/06/2007 12:58:02 PM PST by pax_et_bonum (I will always love you, Flyer.)
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To: joanie-f; EveningStar; Luis Gonzalez
Islamics have a tough time slipping through Mexico as illegals into the US. They are not popular in Mexico, and stand out like a sore thumb.

The fence will be of only modest benefit as long as employers can hire illegals with relative impunity. They will come. Economics is the universal solvent - of borders, and of laws that stand athwart its path.

95 posted on 01/06/2007 1:00:31 PM PST by Torie
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To: Westpole
As to the whole business about terrorist threat coming from Mexico..please reconsider..its the islamic facists not poor mexicans. These people pick our fruit and clean our toilets they wish us no harm.

Guatemalan commandos, Mexican drug cartels and the U.S.
Frontera NorteSur

Mexico was jolted by revelations this week by Defense Secretary Gen. Ricardo Clemente Vega tying elite Guatemalan commandoes to a Mexican drug cartel operating on both sides of the US-Mexico border. In an appearance before the Mexican Senate, Gen. Clemente announced the detention of five Guatemalan nationals in Chiapas state earlier this month on arms and immigration law violations. The defense secretary said a probe was underway examining possible links between the men — all reputed to be members or ex-members of the Guatemalan army's counterinsurgency unit known as the Kabiles — and Los Zetas, the heavily armed enforcers of Mexico’s Tamaulipas-based Gulf Cartel.

We have Nicaragua, soon we will have El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, and Mexico. One day, tomorrow or five years or fifteen years from now, we're going to take 5 to 10 million Mexicans and they are going into Dallas, into El Paso, into Houston, into New Mexico, into San Diego, and each one will have embedded in his mind the idea of killing ten Americans."

--Thomas Borge, Nicaraguan Interior Minister, as quoted in the Washington Times, March 27, 1985

And where is this Borge today...its been 22 years since he made that ridiculous statement.

My understanding is that he's one of the deditos [*little fingers*] for one of the nastier drug cartels. But you might look for him to turn up *here*, acting on behalf of his old boss again.

In the summer of 1984, Ronald Reagan offered photos of narcotrafficante Pablo Escobar and one of Borges' aides, Federico Vaughan, loading Escobar's coke onto a C-123 cargo plane.

I know that every American parent concerned about the drug problem will be outraged to learn that top Nicaraguan government officials are deeply involved in drug trafficking." "This picture, secretly taken at a military airfield outside Managua, shows Federico Vaughan, a top aide to one of the nine commandants who rule Nicaragua, loading an aircraft with illegal narcotics bound for the United States."

--President Ronald Reagan, 16 July 1986.

Do you really want to declare Mexico an enemy? Haven't we already enough of those?

We aren't the ones invading them. Though it may come to that again, as in 1916. Whether or not I want it is immaterial; there it is.

Goodness please take a course in enemy identification!

Okay! Glad to oblige....


96 posted on 01/06/2007 1:02:56 PM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: joanie-f

Thank you for the ping, joanie-f. I'll look at this more closely later .... have bookmarked it.


97 posted on 01/06/2007 1:14:47 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: Torie; joanie-f; Luis Gonzalez

As Larry Elder said yesterday, neither party is really opposed to illegal immigration.

-- The Democrats want them as voters.

-- The Republicans don't want to be perceived as racists.

-- Both Democrats and Republicans are business owners and want the cheap labor.


98 posted on 01/06/2007 1:16:05 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: Arizona Carolyn

You have probably already been pinged at least once, but wanted to return your thoughtfulness.

;^)


99 posted on 01/06/2007 1:21:25 PM PST by La Enchiladita (People get ready . . .)
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To: La Enchiladita

Thank you,


100 posted on 01/06/2007 1:31:28 PM PST by Arizona Carolyn
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