Casualty figures a shameful means of manipulation

World Defense Review ^ | January 8, 2007 | W. Thomas Smith Jr.

[SuzyQ2]

I often wonder how we in the 21st-century would manage the tragedy surrounding the sinking of one of our ships at sea when in some cases, during World War II, thousands of sailors and Marines perished within minutes. After all, would it not have been "criminal" – by today's standards according to some political commentators – to send our young men to sea in ships not adequately protected from submarine attacks or suicide pilots?

[pissant]

Excellent post

[pissant]

Fact is – as so eloquently stated by Confederate cavalry commander, Lt. Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest – "War means fightin,' and fightin' means killin.'" It's a harsh reality; perhaps even harsher and more real to the American people during the war in which Forrest himself served.

You were quoted

[Free ThinkerNY]

The Lieberal Media Brainwashing Machine is the voice of the enemy. They work relentlessly to weaken our resolve. They're poisoning the hearts and minds of the people of the free world. Wake up, America!

[elhombrelibre]

This is well worth the read. We couldn't even have an army or any other branch if we expected to have zero risk. We lose a large number in training accidents every year too, but that hardly gets attention. Also, how many people die in farming accidents, mining accidents, driving to work and other efforts we all benefit from? Life is full of risk, and failing in Iraq because of this incessant score-keeping by MSM body count (hmmm, wasn't it supposed to have been in bad taste in Vietnam when our army gave enemy body counts?), is something worth considering as well.

[Albion Wilde]

BUMP

[rlmorel]

Yes. I have read several books on Iwo Jima, and it is literally quite staggering.

For 36 days straight, there was an average of 1 man killed every eight minutes, and 1 man wounded every three minutes.

For 36 days.

[BerryDingle]

I remember a while back, Someone in the LA Times became outraged because an article about a battle in Iraq had an insurgent body count in it.

[CottShop]

the main stream media is bordering on treason by both their propoganda reporting and their non reporting. I remember vaguely a story about I believe it was about how a major news media during Israel's war with Hizbollah broadcast the whereabouts of Israeli forces which Hizbollah watched daily knowing where Israel was at all times and what they were doing- the press also had video of the kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers that they hung onto for a very long time- finally making Israel take legal action against htem to get the film so they could get soem clues about the kidnapping to try to help their fellow soldiers- but of course by then it was far too late- The main stream media are complete scumbags

The following link does not relate to this thread http://sacredscoop.com

[tina07]

The focus section of my local Sunday paper yesterday had on it's front page in large print "3,000 U.S. Soldiers killed in Iraq" and the dates of the start of the war to the present...the background of the page was like the Wall for the Vietnam Memorial..all the names of the dead were listed. You could only read the names with a magnifying glass, well, I could only with a magnifying glass, old eyes! I live in a republican county but the paper is pretty much liberal.

[wodinoneeye]

All these libtards and leftards better think seriously about the day potentially in the future where American soldiers will become convinced that those people who refuse to support them are simply no longer worth fighting for.

They have no realization about how nasty/evil the real world can be and how many ruthless people would laughingly kill them wholesale.

[nathanbedford]

The frightening implications of our unwillingness to sustain casualties at these levels ultimately means that war (or at least asymmetrical war involving boots on the ground of the kind we are engaged in in Iraq and Afghanistan and of the kind which so terrified Bill Clinton and the Europeans in Bosnia) is no longer an option of American national security.

I fear this will remain the reality until we sustain another strike on the homeland.

[pissant]

As you know, I'm not the pessimist regarding this endeavor as you are. Just thought it interesting that they used the quote from Bedford. Appropriate.

But I think you'll find tha tthose who pay closest attention to the situation on the ground have confidence in the ultimate outcome.

[nathanbedford]

Regarding my namesake, I posted the following on my "about page":

His conception was that the battlefield was a ghastly place and that the enemy must be intimidated and broken in will by the the very ghastliness of the field. He had his priorities straight, "war means fightin' and fightin' means killin'." This is not the expression of a bloody-minded Neanderthal but the syllogism of a man with unflinching fortitude to behold, accept, and deal with reality no matter how unpleasant the prospect. There was not an ounce of self-deception in the man. This character trait alone should make every poster on FreeRepublic long to share the avatar and name of Nathan Bedford Forrest especially those Posters who evade unpalatable reality by resort to name-calling, ad hominem attacks, zotting, and just plain old-fashioned hardheadedness.

I hope there is no self-deception among those who are optimistic about the course of the war and I hope that you are right and I am wrong. I think I will shortly post a vanity entitled, "to surge or not to surge" and I would welcome your comments if I do.

[Thrownatbirth]

I remember a while back, Someone in the LA Times became outraged because an article about a battle in Iraq had an insurgent body count in it.

The concept of victory repells them.

[batter]

BTTT.

Mirrors the points many of us have been making since the MSM casualty counts began.

I really worry about what it will take for us as a nation to gain the resolve to win.

Then again, in WWII we didn't have the press hyping casualties and denigrating our troops actions - that used to be left up to Tokyo Rose etc.

[Mac94]

It is an intersting issue. I usually counter those that post comparing loses in Iraq to past wars because each war is fought in it's own political reality and the numbers have no relevance to each other. But, looking over a series of wars it is an interesting thing that has happened in the liberal western democracies plus Russia since World War II.

It is easy to see that since WWII we have not fought the same way since. Starting with Korea and in every war, battle, etc politics has crept its way into everything as over the years we have become more and more casulaty averse. And, it isn't just us.

Heck, the old Soviet Union was "defeated" after 40,000 KIA in 10 years in Afghanistan ... a mere drop in the bucket compared to some of the battles (let alone the war) of the "Great Patriotic War." The old Soviet leaders would kill ten times that in purges alone ... yet 40,000 became to high for them.

We have seen the hand wringing in conflicts from Lebanon to Granda to Panama to Iraq, etc. It has become a fixture in our wars.

And, as demonstrated in the summer of 2006, it has crept into the IDF and Israel.

Now, concern over loss of life isn't a bad thing ... the value of life is one difference between us and and our enemies ... BUT, it has become almost a paralizing force in our nations foriegn policy and that of many of our western Allies. How or why did this happen?

[CottShop]

yeah I hear ya- they'll print that but refuse to print the daily murders committed by terrorists all across the world- think they'd have the 'daily count' in any of their sections? Nope- not a chance- why? Because that would show that we absolutely NEED to confront terrorism NOW! My town is republican as well, and the paper says that it leans to the right- but I assure you that is a big fat lie- they are living in denial if they truly beleive they are fair and balanced. 25 people are killed ort murdered every single day in the U.S by illegal aliens- many of them violent criminals from the middle east- since 9/11 more than 45,000 Americans have been killed or murdered in violent crimes by illegals- Mayhaps our papers should have this murder count right alongside their daily 'soldier death count' as well?

[CottShop]

self deception? 45,000 dead Americans at the hands of violent criminals in our country comming from overseas and Mexico? Massive terrorist plots stopped by homeland security? Nope- there's no self deception about how the war is going. Radical Islam wants us dead dead dead- it's in their rewitten Koran, and they are carrying out their prophet's desires by murdering us infidels- NOT just here in the U.S but all ovr the world EVERY single day. Iraq is a hotbed for terrorism, and it is of vital importance that we keep as tight a lid on that section as we can for now because if we don't- we're done for- that's not a 'maybe' that is fact.

[andy58-in-nh]

What If Today's Media Had Covered World War II?

(Source: http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htiw/articles/20061201.aspx)

NAVY, WHITE HOUSE LIED ABOUT BATTLESHIPS

5, Not 2, Sunk at Pearl Harbor

HUNDREDS OF SAILORS STILL TRAPPED UNDERWATER

Victims' Families: Pearl Rescue Efforts "Disgraceful"

FDR DUMPS MACARTHUR FOR CHURCHILL

"Writing Off" Philippines, Sources Say

SECRET PAYMENT TO MACARTHUR

$500,000 from Manila Bigwigs

MIDWAY VICTORY DUE TO BROKEN JAP CODES

The Chicago Tribune did actually print this story. Fortunately, the Japanese didn't see it. Tribune owner Robert McCormick was sternly told never to let this happen again, and it never did.

FDR PLANS NORTH AFRICA INVASION

Critics Charge "Stunt" To Help Dems in '42 Elections

NORMANDY "IDEAL" INVASION SITE

Military Experts Agree This Is Where We'll Land

NEVER HAD A CHANCE

German Tank Superiority Causes GI Morale Crisis

WHISTLEBLOWER REVEALS SUPERBOMB PLANS

Catholic Bishops Condemn Secret "Manhattan Project"

IKE ENRAGED

Monty to Be Fired in SHAEF Meltdown British papers which did report, inaccurately, tensions between Ike and Monty, were stepped on hard by the British government.

"NO DEFENSE" AGAINST KAMIKAZES

Experts: Suicide Tactics May Be War-Winner – Fleet Demoralized

FDR WITH MISTRESS IN DEATH ROOM

Warm Springs Scandal – Old Flame Watches President Die First Lady Outed As Lesbian

HITLER IN PARAGUAY

Soviets Have Proof Dictator Escaped Berlin

IWO JIMA FLAG RAISING "STAGED"

Bond Drive Collapses After Controversy

BURN BABY BURN

B-29 Crews Laugh, Take Photos as Thousands of Children Die

ATOM BOMB DROPPED TO COW SOVIETS

Sources Say Hiroshima Strike Had No Military Purpose

MACARTHUR-NIMITZ SURRENDER SHOWDOWN

Who Hosts Ceremony? Whose Flag Flies Higher on Battleship's Mast?

 

[pissant]

I will gladly add comment...and civilly too.