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Former Presidents Carter & Clinton call for 'A New Baptist Covenantí
Baptist Press ^ | Jan 10, 2007 | Erin Roach

Posted on 01/11/2007 8:59:58 AM PST by presidio9

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To: presidio9
The Unitarians I know are always preaching about the moral imperative given to us by the "father creator" and the "mother creator" to work for a clean environment free of human intrusion, social justice through wealth redistribution and peace and harmony around the world through United Nations sponsored diplomacy.

They make themselves feel better about their otherwise pathetic lives by spending all of their waking hours hating conservatives and campaigning against conservative politicians.
101 posted on 01/11/2007 12:26:35 PM PST by spinestein (Remember to follow the Brazen Rule!)
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To: presidio9
Why is it always Baptists and evangelical Christians who must change? Why is it always Baptists and evangelical Christians who we are told are the problem and must change their beliefs to, astoundingly, conform with God-rejecting, immoral leftists? Why is no other "Christian" denomination singled out as "needing to change" and "needing to get with the 21st century"?

Why are Baptists and evangelical Christians always the target of those who wholeheartedly reject Christ and His commandments and principles?

Could it be that the beliefs and adherence to Scripture that Baptists and evangelical Christians profess and live their lives in accordance with hit just a few nerves with the likes of Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter? Could it be that they don't like the nagging feeling of doom they get inside when Baptists and evangelical Christians speak out?

Could it be that the target of the wrath of these two pathetic creatures is a genuine threat to the cocoon of immorality and deception they have created for themselves?

And make no mistake - the real target is Jesus Christ.

102 posted on 01/11/2007 12:33:37 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

we have a winner!


103 posted on 01/11/2007 12:39:54 PM PST by wayne_b24 (every day in the Light is a good day...)
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To: presidio9

Isn't something like this something akin to King Henry VIII's MO?


104 posted on 01/11/2007 12:43:24 PM PST by Ghengis (Of course freedom is free. If it wasn't, it would be called expensivedom. ~Cindy Sheehan 11/11/06)
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To: presidio9

I am always amazed by the assumption that an organization is it's hierarchy. In my view an organization is the sum total of its adherents and it hierarchy and the social network in which it operates. We saw that assumption when the Soviets decided to whack JP II. They believed that a dead JPII would end the social, economic and political threat of Catholicism to the Soviets. If JPII had died it would have made no difference in the outcome the it was the weight of All Catholics all leaning in the same direction that toppled Poland's Communists. The rest is history.

Curiously we did the same thing when we assumed the capture and death of Uday, Qusay, Saddam and Zarqawi would end the insurgency. It had no effect. Mass movements happen independantly of the hierarchy. Christ himself is a good example. I suspect hierarchy just surfs the trend. Constantine is a good example.


105 posted on 01/11/2007 12:45:30 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I agree with what you're saying but if you think the Catholic Church hasn't constantly been the target of the homos, the feminists, the bigots, the socialists, the abortionist, and the main stream media, (aka "the left")then you really haven't been paying attention. Agreed that the Baptist Church takes criticism, but you're not the only ones.


106 posted on 01/11/2007 12:47:26 PM PST by presidio9 (It's "news" that New Jersey smells bad?)
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To: presidio9

Starting their own religion are they?

Who says politics and religion don't mix?

Will they be calling it the Church of Satan?


107 posted on 01/11/2007 12:49:51 PM PST by Cincinna (HILLARY & HER HINO " We are going to take things away from you for the Common Good ")
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To: xzins

Love that passage, xzins! Count it all joy!


108 posted on 01/11/2007 12:53:10 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: jgilbert63

I am not up on my Baptists. There is of course the Southern Baptists, the National Baptist Convention (African American) and what about those Northern Baptists (American Baptist Bonvention)? Maybe Carter and Bill can hook up with those.
As a person who was raised Catholic, we don't have the luxury of just forming splinter groups. But I can say that politically the Catholic clergy is on the left of a good many of its members. With the exception of it's beliefs on abortion and homosexuality, the Roman Catholic Church is pretty left. Most Catholics pretty much have compartmentalized themselves into whatever goes on in church or the RC Church's official or semi-official position is one thing and whatever a person does in the voting booth is another. Basically Catholics are very passive and really don't challenge the political beliefs their clergy hold. If a Catholic feels that a priest is too liberal, they just stop going to that particular church. I am sure the Southern Baptists can live quite well without either Jimmy or Bill. Besides, I though the Clintons bothered more with the Methodists (being Hillary was raised a Methodist)?


109 posted on 01/11/2007 12:54:38 PM PST by brooklyn dave (Dhimmis better not be Dhummis!!!!------or else!!!)
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To: tomcorn

I certainly do not believe that the Catholic Church is its heirarchy. I was referring to the heirarchy in terms of excommunication. While it is permissable for bishops to excommunicate Catholics in certain clear-cut circumstances (for instance Cardinal John Egan excommunicated John Gotti, and refused his family a Mass of Christian burial), being a pro-choice politician is more of a judgement call, because it is in and of itself a passive sin. This would require either Papal conconsideration or Church General Council in every case. Since the Church has no interest in spending all of its time examining voting records, the Pope took the unusual and intelligent step of saying "this is what is going to happen if you do this." It should be noted that said politicians are no longer able to assume a state of Grace unless they take steps to undo their earlier wrongs. As such, every time they find a nutball priest who is willing to offer them Communion, they are literally desecrating the very flesh of Christ. This is a mortal sin right up there with murder in the eyes of true Catholics. Therefore, if John Kerry or Nancy Pelosi know anything about Catholicism, they know that they are going to Hell, and they just don't care.


110 posted on 01/11/2007 1:00:22 PM PST by presidio9 (It's "news" that New Jersey smells bad?)
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To: Cincinna

Will they be calling it the Church of Satan?

111 posted on 01/11/2007 1:05:13 PM PST by presidio9 (It's "news" that New Jersey smells bad?)
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To: brooklyn dave
With the exception of it's beliefs on abortion and homosexuality, the Roman Catholic Church is pretty left. Most Catholics pretty much have compartmentalized themselves into whatever goes on in church or the RC Church's official or semi-official position is one thing and whatever a person does in the voting booth is another.

Hold on a second: Officially the Catholic Church is for school vouchers, and private charity as opposed to government wealth redistribution. It is even with us in theory on the death penalty. The Church does not forbid capital punishment, but since it opposed the execution of Saddam Hussein, it might as well have. Sure, your local pastor is a lefty, because he has never worked a day in his life, but the Church's teachings fit nicely into Conservative political philosophy. As a matter of fact, I became a Conservative in college, because I was a Catholic first, and I realized the Conservatism was the best fit (sort of the opposite of what happened with Laura Ingraham and Larry Kudlow, to name a couple).

112 posted on 01/11/2007 1:11:08 PM PST by presidio9 (It's "news" that New Jersey smells bad?)
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To: L,TOWM
LOL

Well...It does sound very Rick Warren-like, does it not?

Compare what Clinton/Carter want with Warren's global PEACE plan...they are the same thing (a three-legged stool).

113 posted on 01/11/2007 1:32:55 PM PST by pby
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To: presidio9

Thanks for a decent, respectful and stirring discussion. I have different perspective on this. I admire the Church when it goes political on a geopolitical level and tend to abhor it when it goes political on a national level. I think i has to do with the spirit of faith and its cooption by policymakers.

Curiously while you may find the notion of Buchanan, Buckley, McCarthy, Pelosi, Kennedy and Daniel Ortega in the same pew to be incongruous, I think it says something about the faith being bigger than the politics of its particpants. I like that.

I wholly dislike what Carter and Clinton are doing and it smacks of the same political opportunism that Pat Robertson and Ralph Reed employ. I think it is cheesy and debasing to faith in general.

When faith becomes a political gambit it ceases to be faith and is merely a cynical strategem.


114 posted on 01/11/2007 1:34:16 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: presidio9

Actually the Catholic Church is all over the ideological map. From Opus Dei ( The Catholic Brownshirts!) to the Liberation Theologists ( Think Che Guevarra in A Cassock!). And everything in between. One of the great frustrations of politicians is Catholics aren't herdable. It's like trying to wrangle cats. By the time you herd up 10% of them the other 90% have wandered off. You don't get to be 1.2 Billion strong by being exclusive.


115 posted on 01/11/2007 1:39:18 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: presidio9

I hear there's good money in starting your own religion?


116 posted on 01/11/2007 1:45:48 PM PST by Ramcat (Thank You American Veterans)
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To: tomcorn
From Opus Dei ( The Catholic Brownshirts!)

I did some volunteer work for Opus Dei a few years ago, but I didn't join. You characterization is incorrect. While there are some wackos in any organization, for the most part Opus Dei is pretty much plain-vanilla Catholic. The mainstream perception of the group is unfortunate and unwarranted.

117 posted on 01/11/2007 1:51:13 PM PST by presidio9 (It's "news" that New Jersey smells bad?)
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To: presidio9

These Baptist churches are looking to form a new declining mainline protestant grouping.


118 posted on 01/11/2007 2:09:48 PM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: Alamo-Girl

It is a wonderful passage, AG. We should do a devotional thread on it some day here on FR.

You're a blessing, sister in Christ.


119 posted on 01/11/2007 2:14:54 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: presidio9

So far as the MSM is concerned this new grouping will be "The Baptists," and conservative Baptists will always be referred to with an adjective to imply that they are a fringe breakaway sect. The term "Evangelical" is treated that way now and this is just a ploy to write the Baptists, just like the Evangelicals, out of the News and public discourse. It is the New Memory Hole. They will be sending us a new set of pages to splice into our Greater Soviet Encyclopedias soon.


120 posted on 01/11/2007 2:17:18 PM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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