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BREAKING: 20 U.S. service members killed in Iraq
YAHOO NEWS ^ | 20 JANUARY 2007 | AP

Posted on 01/20/2007 6:31:11 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist

BAGHDAD, Iraq - At least 20 American service members were killed in military operations Saturday in the deadliest day for U.S. forces in two years, including 13 who died in a helicopter crash and five slain in an attack by militia fighters in the holy city of Karbala, military officials said.

Saturday's toll was the third-highest of any single day since the war began in March 2003, eclipsed only by 37 U.S. deaths on Jan. 26, 2005, and 28 on the third day of the U.S. invasion. U.S. authorities also announced two American combat deaths from Friday.

The heavy toll comes at a critical time of rising congressional opposition to President Bush's decision to dispatch 21,500 additional soldiers to the conflict to try to curb sectarian slaughter.

The military gave little information on the crash of the Army Black Hawk helicopter during good weather in Diyala province, northeast of Baghdad. U.S. and Iraqi forces have been battling Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias for months in the province, around the city of Baqouba.

Lt. Col. Josslyn Aberle, a U.S. spokeswoman, said the cause of the crash had not been determined. Navy Capt. Frank Pascual, a member of a U.S. media relations team in the United Arab Emirates, told Al-Arabiya television that the helicopter was believed to have suffered technical troubles before going down.

Five U.S. soldiers were killed Saturday night when militia fighters attacked a provincial headquarters in the Shiite Muslim holy city of Karbala, the military said in a statement.

The statement said "an illegally armed militia group" attacked the building with grenades, small arms and "indirect fire," which usually means mortars or rockets. The statement said three other soldiers were wounded repelling the attack.

"A meeting was taking place at the time of the attack to ensure the security of Shiite pilgrims participating in the Ashoura commemorations," said a statement from Brig. Gen. Vincent K. Brooks, deputy commander of the Multi-National Division-Baghdad.

Karbala is 50 miles south of Baghdad and thousands of Shiite pilgrims are flocking to the city to mark the 10-day Ashoura festival commemorating the death of one of Shiite Islam's most sacred saints, Imam Hussein, grandson of the Prophet Muhammad.

Brooks said Iraqi officials and security forces as well as U.S. troops were present at the meeting, but his statement did not mention other casualties from the attack. It said the headquarters had "been secured by coalition and Iraqi security forces."

Earlier, Karbala Gov. Akeel al-Khazaali had reported that U.S. troops raided the provincial headquarters looking for wanted men but left with no prisoners. But Brooks said that report was incorrect.

The general did not identify any group suspected of staging the attack, but residents reached by telephone had reported seeing military helicopters flying over the local headquarters of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia, which has been accused of playing a big role in sectarian killings, has been hit repeatedly in recent weeks by operations in which key commanders have been captured or killed by U.S. and Iraqi troops.

Also Saturday, roadside bombs killed a soldier in the capital and one in Nineveh province north of Baghdad.

The U.S. military also announced that combat Friday had killed an Army soldier in Nineveh province and a Marine in Anbar province, a Sunni insurgent stronghold west of the capital. The Marines often delay death reports, raising the possibility that Friday's toll was higher.

The helicopter crash was the fourth deadliest since the start of the war. The worst crash occurred on the war's deadliest day, Jan. 26, 2005, when a Marine transport helicopter crashed during a sandstorm in Iraq's western desert, killing 30 Marines and a sailor. On the same day, six other U.S. forces died in combat for a total of 37 deaths.

The second highest daily toll was on March 23, 2003 when 28 service members were killed as American forces were pushing toward Baghdad on the third day of the U.S.-led invasion.

Meanwhile, the first reinforcements of U.S. troops under the new Bush strategy have already started to flow into the Baghdad region. A brigade of the U.S. 82nd Airborne Division, part of the buildup, has arrived in Baghdad and will be ready to join the fresh drive to quell sectarian violence in the capital by the first of the month, the American military said Sunday.

The 2nd Brigade of the 82nd Airborne consists of about 3,200 soldiers who will "assist Iraqi Security Forces to clear, control and retain key areas of the capital city in order to reduce violence and to set the conditions for a transition to full Iraqi control of security in the city," the military said in a statement.

In south Baghdad, U.S. helicopters dropped Iraqi police commandos into the dangerous Dora neighborhood to stage a raid on the Omar Brigade, an al-Qaida-linked Sunni militant group, Interior Ministry spokesman Abdul-Karim Khalaf said.

Khalaf said 15 insurgents were killed and five captured during an intense battle at two abandoned houses taken over by Sunni gunmen, who he blamed for a series of kidnappings and killings in a bid to cleanse the once-mixed neighborhood of Shiite residents.

"We were provided with helicopter support by our friends in the multinational forces and we did not suffer any casualties," Khalaf said. U.S. aircraft gave covering fire, but the U.S. military did not respond to a request for comment on the raid.

Elsewhere in Baghdad, Iraqi police and hospital officials said a joint U.S.-Iraqi force searched a hospital in the volatile Sunni-dominated western neighborhood of Yarmouk.

Dr. Haqi Ismail, the hospital manager, said the raid occurred at 4:30 a.m.

"They were looking for someone, they searched all the rooms and the emergency unit," he said.

Al-Sadr's followers voiced increasing anger over Friday's capture of a senior aide to the radical cleric in a raid in eastern Baghdad.

Nassar al-Rubaie, the head of al-Sadr's bloc in parliament, accused U.S. forces of trying to provoke the Sadrists into violence during the expanding campaign to quell Iraq's fighting.

"We condemn strongly the arrest of Sheik Abdul-Hadi al-Darraji. He is moderate and well-known as a media personality and always available in negotiations," al-Rubaie said. "He is a peaceful man and what was mentioned in the American release is lies and justification for the aggression against al-Sadr's movement."

U.S. and Iraqi forces reportedly detained al-Darraji during a raid on a mosque complex before dawn Friday.

The U.S. military, in a statement that did not name al-Darraji, said special Iraqi army forces operating with U.S. advisers had "captured a high-level, illegal armed group leader" in Baghdad's Baladiyat neighborhood, next to the Mahdi Army stronghold of Sadr City. It said two other suspects were detained for further questioning.

Sadiq al-Rikabi, an al-Maliki adviser, told Al-Arabiya television the operation was not coordinated with Iraq's political leaders and was not part of the new security campaign.

Police reported at least 16 Iraqis slain in attacks Saturday. In addition, officials said 29 bodies were found in Baghdad and three in the northern city of Mosul, most of them showing signs of torture — a hallmark of killings by sectarian death squads.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: bushbash; iraq; notbreaking; ultimatesacrifice; wordsfail
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Prayers up...
1 posted on 01/20/2007 6:31:12 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Will they stop calling these infested piles of dung "the holy city"? These places are no more holy than the local landfill. They are Christless, lightless, unholy, Satanic hellholes where evil is celebrated and I am sick of hearing the lie that they are in any way holy.


2 posted on 01/20/2007 6:37:30 PM PST by Fairview
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Twenty families are about to recieve some heartbreaking news....God be with them.


3 posted on 01/20/2007 6:38:43 PM PST by mystery-ak (My Son, My Soldier, My Hero........God Speed Jonathan......)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Prayers for the servicemen, their families and friends.

God bless our troops.

4 posted on 01/20/2007 6:39:49 PM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Prayers.


5 posted on 01/20/2007 6:40:01 PM PST by CJ Wolf
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

"The holy city of...." "F" that crap.


6 posted on 01/20/2007 6:41:31 PM PST by realpatriot (Some spelling errers entionally included!)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

I guess shock and awe, wasn't enough. Let loose the dogs of war, AND WIN THIS. Or come home.


7 posted on 01/20/2007 6:42:34 PM PST by mosquewatch.com (The trouble starts with an "I" and ends with a "slam".)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

At what point is Iraq officially all jacked up?


8 posted on 01/20/2007 6:44:25 PM PST by HitmanLV (Rock, Rock, Rock and Rollergames! Rockin' & Rolling, Rockin' with Rollergames!)
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To: mosquewatch.com

I didn't think I'd ever type this.

George, get your head in the game, unleash the instruments of destruction, and stop this slow bleed.

IOTW, get off your ass, dispense with the word compassionate and do your duty as Commander in Chief.

Cry Havoc George.


9 posted on 01/20/2007 6:45:36 PM PST by Hilltop
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To: Hilltop
I didn't think I'd ever type this.

I'm glad you did, YOU FINALLY GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10 posted on 01/20/2007 6:47:31 PM PST by mosquewatch.com (The trouble starts with an "I" and ends with a "slam".)
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To: Fairview

What pisses me off is the ghoulish tone of this, and so many other articles. It is as if the media are happy that someone has saved them from a slow news day. The counting of the dead, the comparisons, the statistics.
Why don't they count the 3000 from 9-11? Do they report that no one in the US died from a terrorist attack today?


11 posted on 01/20/2007 6:47:42 PM PST by benjamin032
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To: mosquewatch.com

With all due respect, you should be focusing your ire on the terrorists who shot down the helicopter, not the President of the United States.


12 posted on 01/20/2007 6:48:59 PM PST by Laverne
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To: Hilltop

Amen to that!! This is just more cannon fodder for the media whores.


13 posted on 01/20/2007 6:49:05 PM PST by westmichman (The will of God always trumps the will of the people.)
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To: Laverne

Would this be the same President that is sending Fatah $86 million dollars? That Hammas is going too get? WAKE UP.


14 posted on 01/20/2007 6:53:44 PM PST by mosquewatch.com (The trouble starts with an "I" and ends with a "slam".)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
-"...five slain in an attack by militia fighters in the holy city of Karbala"

-"A brigade of the U.S. 82nd Airborne Division, part of the buildup, has arrived in Baghdad ... to quell sectarian violence"

This administration better get serious (and quick) about taking this 'enemy' on with real firepower to finally put an end to this crap, or else they'd better pack the f-up and bring 'em home!

I'm tired of seeing our best taken out and seeing NO RESULTS from those IRAQIs!!!!

Yeah - if we'd had real results, you wouldn't see these DAMN MILITIAS running around with all this firepower.

15 posted on 01/20/2007 6:54:08 PM PST by LibFreeUSA
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

I'm not finding in this article a count of enemy killed. Gosh, it must have been inadvertent.


16 posted on 01/20/2007 6:54:53 PM PST by macamadamia ("First thing we do, kill all the journalists." Joe Shakespeare)
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To: Hilltop

George has been disabled by Beltway politics, just like his father...

Send more troops there and see more dead soldiers...

If the troops that are there were allowed to do the job, that would do, but then again, rean the first line...


17 posted on 01/20/2007 6:55:49 PM PST by observer5 (It's not a War on Terror - it's a WAR ON STUPIDITY!)
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To: Laverne

You substitute logical and linear thought for emotional and histrionic posts.

Your military advisor must be Shirley.

Laverne and Shirley, CPAC.

Shudder.


18 posted on 01/20/2007 6:59:17 PM PST by Hilltop
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To: Laverne
-"With all due respect, you should be focusing your ire on the terrorists who shot down the helicopter, not the President of the United States."

Laverne,

We're tired of letting this crap go on. We should be focusing our IRE on those who are IN CONTROL of the situation so we can get RESULTS, so that our BEST don't get taken out. Are you saying that the "terrorists" are in control? 'F' the terrorist, Shiites, Soooneees, or whoever the hell is taking out our guys. I don't give a damn about them. I give a damn about OUR GUYS, and we (el Presidente) is the one who is the Commander in Chief.

19 posted on 01/20/2007 7:00:04 PM PST by LibFreeUSA
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To: LibFreeUSA

Just Google rubber+bullets+Abu+Ghraib and you will see why.

The war in Iraq is being run as a PC endeavour.

The rules of engagement were supposed to change. But until they actually do, the war in Iraq will continue to be a PC endeavour.


20 posted on 01/20/2007 7:02:24 PM PST by TomGuy
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To: macamadamia; All
Has any body considered the timing? This is a Media Hit piece right at the critical time when the issue of Troop reinforcements comes to a vote in Congress.

The Media left out enemy casualties on purpose. They want it to look like we got waxed!

So, let's keep the Knee Jerking to a minimum if at all possible. Stop demonizing the President until the facts are out in the open. Even in that event, let's stop demonizing the President period. We are at WAR and he is Commander in Chief. Nobody ever promised this to be a Picnic in the first place!
21 posted on 01/20/2007 7:02:53 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Show me a 'true' Conservative and I'll show you someone with bad knees)
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To: Laverne
Agreed, how about being frustrated with the President and disgusted with the terrorists?

That being said, Prayers for our troops and their families.

22 posted on 01/20/2007 7:03:29 PM PST by LAChicka
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To: mosquewatch.com

Do you think the Blackhawk was hit by a missle? They're not saying.


23 posted on 01/20/2007 7:05:52 PM PST by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon))
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To: Fairview
Lt. Col. Josslyn Aberle, a U.S. spokeswoman, said the cause of the crash had not been determined. Navy Capt. Frank Pascual, a member of a U.S. media relations team in the United Arab Emirates, told Al-Arabiya television that the helicopter was believed to have suffered technical troubles before going down.

The crash that claimed 13 American lives appears to be a mishap and not from enemy action.

24 posted on 01/20/2007 7:11:38 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: DCPatriot

If our guys get killed with a gun or a missile, does it matter? They end up dead,we are in a police action while Muslims are fighting a civil are between the Sunni and Shia . Make no mistake It is a civil war, it's been going on for 1400 years.


25 posted on 01/20/2007 7:12:37 PM PST by mosquewatch.com (The trouble starts with an "I" and ends with a "slam".)
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To: DCPatriot

FWIW, ABC news reported the Blackhawk was having mechanical problems prior to the crash.


26 posted on 01/20/2007 7:14:10 PM PST by Pro-Bush (hater)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
Wire services also reported that U.S. forces used helicopters to drop Iraqi forces into an attack that killed 15 Sunni insurgents in southern Baghdad. The targets were members of the Omar Brigades, a Sunni group with links to al-Qaeda that is known for kidnappings and murders of Shiites.

from dallasnews.com

===

Khalaf said 15 insurgents were killed and five captured in an intense battle at two abandoned houses taken over by Sunni gunmen, who he blamed for a series of kidnappings and killings in a bid to cleanse the once-mixed Dora neighbourhood of Shiite residents.

from The Canadian Press
27 posted on 01/20/2007 7:16:01 PM PST by TomGuy
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
I do not and have never "Demonized" the President. What you call "demonizing", I call a difference of opinion on President Bush's policies.

It really is that simple.

28 posted on 01/20/2007 7:16:03 PM PST by mosquewatch.com (The trouble starts with an "I" and ends with a "slam".)
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To: Laverne

I hate to break this to you, but the U.S. action in Iraq has gone on longer that this country's involvement in WWII and what do we have to show for it?


29 posted on 01/20/2007 7:16:33 PM PST by BW2221
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To: mosquewatch.com
-"Make no mistake It is a civil war, it's been going on for 1400 years.

I couldn't agree with you more. Vietnam was the same thing, but we (Kennedy and Johnson) sold it as a "fight against communism". They sucked us (U.S. policy) into making it a stand against "communism", consequently the 'stakes were raised' and if we pulled out (which we wound up doing, because Nixon was smart enough to realize the mess those RATs got us into) then it took on another dimension.

We are seeing the same stupid crap play out again. YES!!! I relly mean what I say, because we went in to stop a madman with WMDs, now this quagmire is a "war against terror" (ooops, no, they' stopped calling it that now).

Look, I say let's get the hell out of there and let them kill each other off, but not before we give them ONE BIG BLAST OFF SEND OFF before we go, to pay them back for the 3000 we've lost so far!

30 posted on 01/20/2007 7:19:53 PM PST by LibFreeUSA
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To: mosquewatch.com

The blood is on the hands of the Media and the Democrats. The enemy can see what's going on. We who work for a living don't have time to get out there in mass protest about how the Dems and the Media portrait the war and want us to lose.


31 posted on 01/20/2007 7:19:59 PM PST by Hoosier-Daddy (It's a fight to the death with Democrats.)
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To: mosquewatch.com

I think you are confusing Civil with Tribal. These Tribal factions have been at war since the days of Muhammad.


32 posted on 01/20/2007 7:21:22 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Show me a 'true' Conservative and I'll show you someone with bad knees)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

I think it's high time we sent our soldiers and Marines out there to kick some behind (after brushing up on their "thirteen rules of engagement, of course).


33 posted on 01/20/2007 7:23:09 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: BW2221
I hate to break this to you, but the U.S. action in Iraq has gone on longer that this country's involvement in WWII and what do we have to show for it?

$1Billion cost per week, at last estimate -- for a war we were told could cost around $40 Billion, for a war we were told Iraqis would pay for with their oil. Yet, it seems that it is the US that is writing the checks.

===

Pentagon sees US war cost in Iraq rising

WASHINGTON: The steadily rising Iraq war price tag will reach about $8.4 billion a month this year, Pentagon spokesmen said on Thursday, as heavy replacement costs for lost, destroyed and aging equipment mount.

The Pentagon has been estimating last year’s costs for the increasingly unpopular war at about $8 billion a month, having increased from a monthly “burn rate” of around $4.4 billion during the first year of fighting in fiscal 2003.

[Article date January 20, 2007]

34 posted on 01/20/2007 7:26:38 PM PST by TomGuy
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To: BW2221

This war cannot be compared to any other as far as time.

If you want to compare the body count however, this war is a picnic compared to World War 2. (1.2 million casualties in 4 years)

Vietnam lasted 9 years and we lost 10 times what we have lost here. We either fight and win in Iraq, or we run for cover and fight here in the US later. But I will guarantee the body count to be 100 times greater if allow it to come here.


35 posted on 01/20/2007 7:27:17 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Show me a 'true' Conservative and I'll show you someone with bad knees)
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To: LibFreeUSA
I don't compare this too the Vietnam war, it has some similarities, but not the same thing. I believe President Bush , had the best of intentions, and he thought "all Muslims would unite".

He was wrong, and so was I.

They will never unite. Sunni / Shia will always be at war.

I don't call it a quagmire, I just call it like it is, a mess. To be honest, our best of intentions will not mean a thing in the long run.

36 posted on 01/20/2007 7:29:42 PM PST by mosquewatch.com (The trouble starts with an "I" and ends with a "slam".)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
For the love of God, enough is enough!!! It's time to unleash the wrath of the US military, and quit using our troops as policemen. They are warriors and winning wars is what they do. It's time we bomb the crap out of that "un-holy city" and the one that Sadar uses to prepare for terror attacks against our troops.

President Bush had better quit trying to win their hearts and minds and stomp the crap out of them, and he better do it immediately! Why send more of our troops in to be killed if we aren't going to give them the full force of the military to win this war!! He's more worried about them, than he is about our troops. Before anyone cries or whines that I'm being mean or anti-Bush, save your breath. I'm mad and I'm fed up seeing our troops die when we aren't giving them the support they need. The war is right, but the way he's fighting it is wrong!!

Prayers up for their loved ones. May God comfort them and give them strength in the difficult days ahead.

37 posted on 01/20/2007 7:30:44 PM PST by NRA2BFree
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

You are correct.


38 posted on 01/20/2007 7:31:14 PM PST by mosquewatch.com (The trouble starts with an "I" and ends with a "slam".)
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To: TomGuy

"Khalaf said 15 insurgents were killed and five captured in an intense battle at two abandoned houses taken over by Sunni gunmen,"

So, we know now that the worth of sparing two abandoned houses from 500lb bombs is five soliders. We can't keep spending that kind of capital for such little profit.


39 posted on 01/20/2007 7:31:53 PM PST by Rb ver. 2.0
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To: mosquewatch.com

You are right, this is like the Catholics going against the Protestants, except they kill who doesn't agree with them.

They are united against us, they want us dead. Period.
If we leave and let the Mullahs take control, it will be Iran times 1000. They will gather strength, numbers and technology and go after us till we no longer exist.

Why is this fact so difficult for most people to see?


40 posted on 01/20/2007 7:34:57 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Show me a 'true' Conservative and I'll show you someone with bad knees)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
We either fight and win in Iraq

Correction: We either fight and to win in Iraq

But, the rules of engagement have been such that the fight was not to win, but to maintain some level of enforcement. Look at the Fallujah. It took 3 attempts before the 3rd was a serious effort; and it succeeded.

The current endeavour is for a political/diplomatic solution. That will not occur, however, until the troops are allowed to finish the war. We won WWII because the Japanese, and then the Germans surrendered. We didn't rush to a political/diplomatic solution [althought Chamberlain though he did] before the war was won.
41 posted on 01/20/2007 7:36:19 PM PST by TomGuy
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To: All

I apologize this isn't really "Breaking". It's the MSM reporting the total of those who died throughout the day.


42 posted on 01/20/2007 7:36:31 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Forgot your tagline? Click here)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Someone correct my post, if it is wrong.

On a local radio talk show this morning, was a man who claimed to be a 16-year special forces officer.

He said we are fighting a loser war in Iraq.

He said there are 40,000 now within the Green Zone, and so many thousands more within the FOBs (Forward Operating Bases).

He said we are fighting this war Vietnam style, a loser strategy. We send our fighters outside the perimeter, to be shot at and exposed to IED's, during daylight, and then they retreat back inside the FOB perimeter at night, allowing the bad guys to retake the city. Over and over, every day. Repeat process, every day.

What he suggested, is that a hard-core Special Forces General be the ground commander, and that our forces go out and take the city, and hold it, night and day. Snipers on the rooftops, patrols, with night vision technology. Fight a guerrilla war like guerrillas, on their level. Except that the hardcore Special Forces commanders have not been invited. If not, why not?

Any thoughts?

43 posted on 01/20/2007 7:37:32 PM PST by FlyVet
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
Why is this fact so difficult for most people to see?

BDS Bush Derangement Syndrome.
44 posted on 01/20/2007 7:38:12 PM PST by angcat ("IF YOU DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO STAND IN FRONT OF THEM")
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Quote " In south Baghdad, U.S. helicopters dropped Iraqi police commandos into the dangerous Dora neighborhood to stage a raid on the Omar Brigade, an al-Qaida-linked Sunni militant group, Interior Ministry spokesman Abdul-Karim Khalaf said.

Khalaf said 15 insurgents were killed and five captured during an intense battle at two abandoned houses taken over by Sunni gunmen, who he blamed for a series of kidnappings and killings in a bid to cleanse the once-mixed neighborhood of Shiite residents.

"We were provided with helicopter support by our friends in the multinational forces and we did not suffer any casualties," Khalaf said. U.S. aircraft gave covering fire, but the U.S. military did not respond to a request for comment on the raid.

Elsewhere in Baghdad, Iraqi police and hospital officials said a joint U.S.-Iraqi force searched a hospital in the volatile Sunni-dominated western neighborhood of Yarmouk.

" endQuote

The Iraq's still need time to stand up, so that we may stand down. Let's hope it goes well, though we also know we have to prepare to face the worst, which these Soldiers families and freinds are now. May they find peace.




45 posted on 01/20/2007 7:39:54 PM PST by Son House
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To: mosquewatch.com
Well, they're not saying what they're doing to the arrested prisoners. And there are no body counts coming out on the opposition.

Sadr is looking for a safe haven because he just lost 400 men.

I think we are kicking ass.

I asked if it was hit by a missle for my own curiosity because to me it begs the question, where did they get the missles? We have seen them used prior. Not with this result.

46 posted on 01/20/2007 7:41:05 PM PST by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon))
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To: NRA2BFree
The difficulty that we are having now, is that Iraqi citizens voted in their own Sovereign Government. Our presence changed when that day occurred.

It is no longer easy for us to take over with military action. The Kurds are gathering North of Baghdad and some sort of surge will happen very soon, but it also takes time to make preparations.
47 posted on 01/20/2007 7:41:38 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Show me a 'true' Conservative and I'll show you someone with bad knees)
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To: angcat

No doubt.


48 posted on 01/20/2007 7:43:58 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Show me a 'true' Conservative and I'll show you someone with bad knees)
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To: Pro-Bush
Thanks for that.

IOW, we don't know yet. < wink >

49 posted on 01/20/2007 7:44:59 PM PST by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon))
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To: observer5
George has been disabled by Beltway politics, just like his father every two-term president we've had since the 22nd Amendment was ratified on February 27, 1951. It was a knee-jerk reaction to FDR's four elections, and I understand the rationale. However, it guaranteed that all presidents in their 2nd terms would be severely weakened.
50 posted on 01/20/2007 7:46:47 PM PST by Wolfstar ("Common sense is not so common." Voltaire, 1764)
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