Lethal force not always justified against intruder [Barf Alert]

WNYT-TV (Albany, NY) ^ | 1/22/07 | SUBRINA DHAMMI

[kiriath_jearim]

A Schenectady man says it was self defense when he shot at two men who invaded his home. One of the intruders was killed, the other was injured.

Local attorney Paul Der Ohannesian says the only time you can use deadly physical force on someone who has invaded your home is if the intruder gives you solid reason to believe that they are going to hurt you.

“Just because someone walks into your house doesn't mean you can blast them away,” Der Ohannesian said.

The attorney says many people think if someone invades or breaks into your home you automatically have the right to attack them. But he says according to the law the only time a homeowner can physically assault and kill an intruder is if there is reasonable belief that the intruder is going to cause harm first.

“Clearly when someone comes in with a weapon or gun, that's a lot more reasonable to believe that deadly physical force is going to be used than if someone yells some words that threatens someone,” Der Ohannesian added.

Last Friday a Schenectady family says two men invaded their home on Division Street. The Schulenburg family says the men had guns and fired the first shots.

“I told him to drop the gun. I offered for him to drop the gun and walk out clear and clean. I gave him a warning shot and he still shot back at me, that's when I decided to pull the trigger and take his life,” Ralph Schulenburg Jr. said Sunday.

The man who died was Aaron Peavy. The other intruder was Charles Little. Police say he was shot in the hand and have charged him with two counts of burglary.

Der Ohannesian says if the Schulenburgs’ claims are true, then that would be a clear case of self defense.

But it takes a lengthy investigation to weed out the family's claims of what happened against the intruders claims. Most of these cases go to a grand jury.

“We're looking at things, not only statements of witnesses, but the forensic evidence of the home, weapons involved and the bullet holes and the fire arms and ballistic evidence. And all that has to be looked at,” Schenectady County District Attorney Robert Carney said.

The district attorney says it's too early to say if this case will go to a grand jury. He says so far the family has not been charged with a crime.

[clamper1797]

Just because someone walks into your house doesn't mean you can blast them away

Yes it does you idiot

[o_zarkman44]

Just because someone walks into your house doesn't mean you can blast them away

just try it you idiot

[mountainlyons]

If you step into my house without knocking, You will no longer be saying such stupid things.

[L98Fiero]

“Just because someone walks into your house doesn't mean you can blast them away,” Der Ohannesian said.

Watch me.

[rhombus]

Just because someone walks into your house doesn't mean you can blast them away.

Of course you can. People can and do all the time.

[lovecraft]

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[xcamel]

Paul Der Ohannesian is an ambulance chaser, and a stalker of pedophile priest cases. Notwithstanding - he is also an idiot

[Mad Dawg]

All RIGHTY then. Let's take a look:

It SEEMS that what this amounts to is that it's up to the victim to prove that he was a victim. And that the victim had better be able to dodge the first shot fired by the perp.

Essentially, if somebody breaks into your home, even if you fight him off successfully, but if in doing do you kill him, your troubles have just begun. The Empire State will try to complete what the perp began and do its best to impoverish you and frighten you and inconvenience you and, if it gets lucky, jail you for having the bad fortune to have your home invaded and the good fortune to have stopped the invader.

Land of the free? Home of the brave?

[Edgerunner]

Local attorney Paul Der Ohannesian says the only time you can use deadly physical force on someone who has invaded your home is if the intruder gives you solid reason to believe that they are going to hurt you.

So this numbchuck says we have to watch them rob our home??

[USMCWife6869]

"Local attorney Paul Der Ohannesian says the only time you can use deadly physical force on someone who has invaded your home is if the intruder gives you solid reason to believe that they are going to hurt you."

Would the home invasion be solid enough reason to believe they could hurt you. Good grief, what are we supposed to do, wait for them to shoot us first, just to be sure?

[Alouette]

Party at Der Ohannesian's!

[L98Fiero]

"But it takes a lengthy investigation to weed out the family's claims of what happened against the intruders claims."

Not if the intruder is dead. Kill intruder, problem solved.

[xcamel]

One is cold-dead, the other is missing most of his right hand.

[HamiltonJay]

You break into my home, I IMMEDIATELY believe your intentions are to harm or kill myself or my family, and I don't plan on letting you remain verticle long enough for you to "prove" otherwise.

This lawyer is an idiot.

[Mr. Keys]

Sorry, but if someone breaks into my house while I'm in it, I take it as a threat. They aren't walking out.

[USMCWife6869]

Would was supposed to be wouldn't.

[SomeoneNeedsToSayIt]

Someone in Texas shows up in your house, I believe you have every right to fill them full of holes!

I'm not sure about NY. I suspect nothing has changed since the days of Bernard Getz which might explain the exodus from NY in particular and the North East in general.

[wastedyears]

What a freakin' moonbat. What would HE do if somebody broke into his home and wanted to kill his family?

[geezerwheezer]

If this asscown lawyer ain't an idiot, seems to me he missed a great opportunity to become one. Wonder what he would say if he walked, armed and uninvited, into my home? I know of two words he might utter before passing on to that great courtroom in the sky....."Oh SH..!!"

[RetiredArmy]

I don't think they just "walked in" did they? It had to be more than just "walking in." That is pure, 100%, Bravo Sierra. Just like a lawyer. Looking for someone to sue to get money for the crooks.

[Cicero]

Notice that this is not a prosecutor, but a trial attorney, probably hoping for a nice fat fee. Trial lawyers will say anything if they see money. Hopefully the police, DA, and the judge if this guy brings a civil lawsuit, will see it differently.

[tearlenb]

Local attorney Paul Der Ohannesian says the only time you can use deadly physical force on someone who has invaded your home is if the intruder gives you solid reason to believe that they are going to hurt you.

What does this idiot think the thief's intentions were...to deliver milk and cookies?? Obviously they have ill intentions. A burglar is more likely to attack any witnesses than to say, "Sorry, my bad..I'll be leaving now. You folks have a nice day".

[Muzzle_em]

I knew a man whose home had been robbed several times.
The last time it was robbed, he just happened to arrive home from deer hunting.
Long story short, his house didn't get burglarized again.

[NY.SS-Bar9]

IIRC from my handgun safety classes, in NY you have a duty to retreat first. We do not have a "stand-your ground" law.

Of course, if the perp is dead, who's to say I didn't?

[Gingersnap]

What lame state. In Colorado, you most certainly can shoot an intruder. Who wouldn't be in fear of their life when two strange, gun-toting dudes break in the house?

Out here, if the shooting is justified, the friends and family of the criminal can't do anything to you in civil court.

[RayStacy]

Before opening fire, I would at least check to see if the guy had filed a
"Declaration of intent to kill and/or maim, and/or steal stuff"

down at the courthouse. That's only reasonable.

[Gorzaloon]

Even in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, we have a "Castle Law".

"It shall be a defense that the person was in his own home..."

The only practical difference between having such a law and not, IMO, is that with the law in place, Homeowners' Insurance will clean the mess up, whereas without the law, the rapidly cooling perp takes a ride to a local quarry, pier, or gravel pit.

There is a doorbell on my front door. If someone prefers rather to kick in a back door, there will be a red laser dot on their chest, briefly followed by a magazine full of.45 Hydrashocks.

Two old women near me, sisters, were beaten by intruders. Bones in their faces were broken.

I am not going to listen to or entertain any thoughts at all about letting someone wrap me in duct tape and play with me. Only a moron would suggest such a thing.

[BigTom85]

I'm not sure about NY. I suspect nothing has changed since the days of Bernard Getz which might explain the exodus from NY in particular and the North East in general.

You are right, NY is loosing it's population by the truck loads. I will be one of those that are leaving soon. I live about 40 miles south of where this happened.

If someone breaks into my house to rob me or my family- they will get a stern 'Put your g'damn hands up and DON'T move"... If they fail to comply, they will get their asses blown away by my 12 gauge.

I would love to run a check on the two perps names. I would imagine they are both fine upstanding citizens- probably one is a doctor and the other is a lawyer ((Sarc off)). I bet my bottom dollar that these two idiots have been in and out of prison/jail their entire teen and adult lives.

[xcamel]

The part that Der O$hit is missing (the whole story) - 2 perps blasted in looking for the youngest son - the father had the rifle and froze in his tracks - the middle son (20 yrs old?) grabbed the rifle rolled and fired just as the (now dead) perp raised his pistol to shoot the father in the head - nearly point blank. Perp 2 raised his pistol, and middle son shot his hand nearly off.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Is it ok to blow them away after they've killed you?

Is being killed by someone proof enough of self-defense?

[Spktyr]

They don't even have to be in your house. If it's after dark, they only have to be on your property. If they are, you can ventilate them - as a number of Katrina evacuees have found out.

[FLAMING DEATH]

"But he says according to the law the only time a homeowner can physically assault and kill an intruder is if there is reasonable belief that the intruder is going to cause harm first."

In other words, wait to see if the intruder tries to kill you first. If he does, then deadly force would have been justifiable.

Disturbing that the criminal gets the benefit of the doubt, not the law abiding property owner...

[Spktyr]

See, video games are good for something after all. :)

Gamers have learned to react, not just stand there looking stupid.

[BigTom85]

The only practical difference between having such a law and not, IMO, is that with the law in place, Homeowners' Insurance will clean the mess up, whereas without the law, the rapidly cooling perp takes a ride to a local quarry, pier, or gravel pit.

I have a nice swamp behind my house. Dig a 5 or 6 foot hole and fill it bakc up with swamp sludge.. like it never ever happened! Body will be gone real fast!

[rbookward]

> Party at Der Ohannesian's!

Bingo! Let's go...

[BigTom85]

Disturbing that the criminal gets the benefit of the doubt, not the law abiding property owner...

To hell with what the NYS government thinks. What does the bumper sticker say... 'I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6'.

[oldenuff2no]

If you are a good enough shot, there is only one story. Just as it should be.....
Stealing from others and violating their home is a very dangerous occupation. Violent criminals are expendable.
Shoot well live long.

[Ouderkirk]

So this numbchuck says we have to watch them rob our home??

Exatly. The perp was offered the choice to leave under his own power, and he declined. So am I supposed to watch him steal my stuff, even though I am holding a loaded weapon? The weapon is to prevent him from hurting my directly, but not to be used to prevent theft.

You enter my house as a burglar, you forfeit your rights in the commission of a felony, BANG you're dead.

[wjcsux]

Hey idiot! If you walk into my house uninvited, I have a model 870 Remington riot shotgun that I will show you, front of the barrel first!

[Beckwith]

Looks like an expert to me?

[Niteranger68]

If someone would steal your belongings, they would steal your life. Be a hero and prevent them from living to harm another again.

[bicyclerepair]

The great Jeb Bush, before leaving office, upped the self-defense law, taking out the escape-first clause. We will miss him.

[OCCASparky]

I'd love to find the jury in NH that would convict me, especially if either of those clowns were armed with so much as a water pistol.

House guarded by Smith and Wesson three nights a week--you guess which three.

[Niteranger68]

I'd love to find the jury in NH that would convict me, especially if either of those clowns were armed with so much as a water pistol. House guarded by Smith and Wesson three nights a week--you guess which three.

"If you violate any one of my rights, I will revoke all of yours." - me

[Spktyr]

I prefer something for larger gatherings:

12 gauge detachable magazine fed semi-auto shotgun. For when you really *do* have to kill everyone in the room.

[TXnMA]

Then the envoroweenies will scream for you to be put away for life for "damaging wetlands"...

[river rat]

Uh, I hope no one takes this guy seriously and causes them to thing that an uninvited entry into my home includes a round trip out the door standing up....

Not going to happen....

Semper Fi

[afortiori]

I THINK SOME OF THE RESPONSES HERE ARE SHORT SIGHTED. IF PEOPLE SUPPORT THE RIGHT TO CARRY FIREARMS, YOU CAN'T ALLOW SHOOTING SOMEONE JUST BECAUSE HE HAS A GUN AND IS IN SOMEONE ELSE'S HOME. THERE HAS TO BE SOME PROOF OF CRIMINAL INTENT OR OBJECTIVE FEAR.

NOW, SHOOTING SOMEONE WITH PROOF OF BREAKING AND ENTERING WITH THE INTENTION TO COMMIT A FELONY THEREIN... WELL, THAT'S DIFFERENT.

[Enchante]

Next we'll see this:

"Local attorney Paul Der Ohannesian stated that in the great State of New York, you may not fire upon any home-invading intruders until you first.....

(1) Ask them in your most pleasant voice just exactly what their intentions might be;

(2) Phone all of their friends and associates to inquire as to their character and possible beliefs in non-violence;

(3) Phone the local police department to inquire as to whether and under what conditions you are permitted to engage in violent self-defense;

(4) Consult with the European Union and United Nations' Human Rights Commissions to learn whether they will approve of your pending actions;

(5) After completing steps 1-4 above, the homeowner should hand over his weapon(s) to the intruders, as a "gesture of trust and peacemaking" -- just ask the intruders to kindly depart the premises and they are sure to do so.