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Toddler's temper ousts family from plane
Associated Press via Yahoo News ^ | January 23, 2007 | Jim Ellis

Posted on 01/23/2007 10:25:48 AM PST by presidio9

AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff.

AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff.

"The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family," AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said.

Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly.

"We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything," Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday.

The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied.

She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat" during boarding, Graham-Weaver said.

The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day.

They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.

The father said his family would never fly AirTran again.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: loons
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1 posted on 01/23/2007 10:25:51 AM PST by presidio9
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To: presidio9

How hard would it have been to sit next to child and hold her down???


2 posted on 01/23/2007 10:27:13 AM PST by Lunatic Fringe (LF for President! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1771780/posts)
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To: presidio9

Let me guess.. The parents don't believe in spanking?


3 posted on 01/23/2007 10:27:49 AM PST by divine_moment_of_facts ("Listen to the sustain!" "I'm not hearing anything." "You would thought, if it were playing.")
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To: presidio9

Looks like Air Trans and the airline that the Muslims boycotted should merge to be the safest and least noisy airline industry in the world.


4 posted on 01/23/2007 10:27:50 AM PST by DCBryan1 (Arm Pilots&Teachers. Build the Wall. Export Illegals. Profile Muslims. Execute Scum & Pit Bulls.)
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To: presidio9
Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter

They already had three years. Let's negotiate with a 3 year old.

5 posted on 01/23/2007 10:28:38 AM PST by Ben Mugged (Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.)
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To: presidio9
The father said his family would never fly AirTran again.

I won't miss them.........I've had enough of unruly kids in airplanes........

6 posted on 01/23/2007 10:28:58 AM PST by Red Badger (Rachel Carson is responsible for more deaths than Adolf Hitler...............)
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To: presidio9
Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly.

"We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything," Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday.

No opportuniy? The flight was already delayed 15 minutes. How much time did they expect to be given? Were they even trying, or were they waiting it out?

7 posted on 01/23/2007 10:28:58 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: DCBryan1

I agree with everything on your tagline except the pit bull part!


8 posted on 01/23/2007 10:28:59 AM PST by RushCrush (God Bless our fine military! Thank you for your service! We are forever indebted to you!)
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To: Lunatic Fringe
How hard would it have been to sit next to child and hold her down???

Then she'd scream all the louder, and the child abuse charges would fly from whatever liberals were seated nearby!

9 posted on 01/23/2007 10:29:42 AM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help m)
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To: presidio9

This was pretty much beaten to death as a topic yesterday.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1771754/posts


10 posted on 01/23/2007 10:31:01 AM PST by linda_22003
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To: presidio9
The father said his family would never fly AirTran again.

And as a regular AirTran flyer I thank him. That's one less ill-mannered kid I have to worry about sitting behind.

11 posted on 01/23/2007 10:31:23 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: presidio9
hitting the parents

They have much bigger problems than a delay home. If they can't control her at 3, what are they going to do when she is 13?

12 posted on 01/23/2007 10:31:49 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: presidio9
The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day.

They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.

The father said his family would never fly AirTran again.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Geeze buddy, they reimbursed you and offered 3 free rides. We're talking some bucks here.

I used to fly with my daughter and in those days she could sit on my lap. Have those rules changed now, I wonder?

13 posted on 01/23/2007 10:33:50 AM PST by prairiebreeze (I support the troops AND THE MISSION. I do not support Clintoons, RINOS or RATS.)
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To: presidio9
I think the airline did the right thing: the parents may have paid for their seats and their daughter's seat, but so did the 100+ other passengers on the flight. They delayed the flight for 15 minutes, for crying out loud, what more can the parents expect? An indefinite delay until the little darling is quiet? The other passengers and crew to put up with a screaming kid the whole way? No thanks.

When my daughters were small, they were usually good travelers, though not always. We managed to find ways to calm them and distract them, even when one of them threw a temper tantrum in the Red Carpet Club. What we never did was put a crying kid on a plane.

I would say that for 95% of flights when our kids were small, they charmed the crew and had the run of the plane "helping". They always got extra cookies and, more often than not, we'd get a bottle of champagne or two, from the crew. They also were good at making friends with kids who were upset on the plane and calming them. Go figure.

14 posted on 01/23/2007 10:33:52 AM PST by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Arabiam Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: Lunatic Fringe
As the father of a very strong and rambunctious 16-month old boy, I say pretty damn hard!

Based upon my own experience with his random, uncontrollable bouts of crying in public places, I think the airline should be ashamed of itself and deserves every bit of the criticism that will be forthcoming on the web.

15 posted on 01/23/2007 10:34:56 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: divine_moment_of_facts

I'm flying ATA.


16 posted on 01/23/2007 10:35:00 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: presidio9

Oh my gosh! Of course the parents and the child did nothing wrong, it's all the airlines fault. Jeez Louise! Give me a break. I know that children are unpredictable, but the airline did what they could - they can't break the rules, right?


17 posted on 01/23/2007 10:35:01 AM PST by arizonarachel (Lord, thank you for this miracle!)
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To: presidio9
I was fearing the same thing when my 3-year old son was singing his 40 something rendition of his version of "Tiny Bubbles" on our return trip from Maui. The passengers thought it was real cute for about the first dozen times but after awhile even after telling him to shoosh several times We started getting the evil eye.
18 posted on 01/23/2007 10:35:28 AM PST by NavyCanDo
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To: CindyDawg
If they can't control her at 3, what are they going to do when she is 13?

Dope her up good! After all, thats what Ritelin (?sp?) is for!

19 posted on 01/23/2007 10:35:59 AM PST by cuz_it_aint_their_money
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To: divine_moment_of_facts
Let me guess.. The parents don't believe in spanking?

Highly unlikely that spanking would have calmed an already worked-up 3 year old....

Actually, though, it's not hard to work up a scenario where these are all nice people, but everything goes bad all at once.

Based on their itinerary, these folks were evidently headed home from vacation, I'd guess that the kid was way past tired, and way outside her "everything as it should be" comfort zone. And if she was visiting grandparents ....

Now add in the likelihood of a bad night's sleep and/or early-morning wakeup, and maybe a bit of stress getting to the airport.

I can see a basically good 3-yo kid melting down in that sort of situation.

Doesn't make the situation any better, but I can understand it.

20 posted on 01/23/2007 10:36:13 AM PST by r9etb
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To: presidio9
she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat"

BRAT

21 posted on 01/23/2007 10:36:40 AM PST by Charlespg (Peace= When we trod the ruins of Mecca and Medina under our infidel boots.)
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To: presidio9

Oh boo-hoo-hoo! The problem is obvious, the parents think the world should revolve around them and have tuaght their daughter well.


22 posted on 01/23/2007 10:38:02 AM PST by ShandaLear (Perfect People Need Support, too.)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

I think the airline should be ashamed of itself and deserves every bit of the criticism that will be forthcoming on the web.



I doubt if there will be much if any criticism of the airline. If the parents can not control their child they should be kicked off the plane. What I can not figure out is why they were offered free tickets.


23 posted on 01/23/2007 10:38:58 AM PST by John D
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

There was a LONG thread on this story yesterday, and one of the first posts said:

"Best. Flight Crew. Ever." :)


24 posted on 01/23/2007 10:39:31 AM PST by linda_22003
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To: John D

Because the parents threw a temper tantrum and the airline attempted to console them.


25 posted on 01/23/2007 10:40:53 AM PST by GatorRN (Air Force wife and proud of it!)
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To: John D

Because the parents threw a temper tantrum and the airline attempted to console them.


26 posted on 01/23/2007 10:40:53 AM PST by GatorRN (Air Force wife and proud of it!)
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To: prairiebreeze
I used to fly with my daughter and in those days she could sit on my lap. Have those rules changed now, I wonder?

Over 2 years old must have own seat.

27 posted on 01/23/2007 10:41:23 AM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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To: CatoRenasci

I don't recall my daughter having any difficulties or tantrums either. Even when one flight was so full that she HAD to sit on my lap and I wasn't even able to raise the tray table to accept the tray of food and hence wasn't able to feed her.

I entertaind her the whole flight and we got by.


28 posted on 01/23/2007 10:41:44 AM PST by prairiebreeze (I support the troops AND THE MISSION. I do not support Clintoons, RINOS or RATS.)
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To: presidio9

Sounds like a great scam. Get 3 tickets, tell your kid to behave like a spoiled brat, get 3 free tickets anywhere in the world.

Anybody here believe they won't use the free tickets?


29 posted on 01/23/2007 10:42:04 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CatoRenasci

I don't think traveling adults have a right to expect children not to cry or scream. It happens and you should just appreciate the quiet trips. That said, an unrestrained child is a different matter. Most kids cry themselves to sleep if held or locked in their car seat. Are they not allowed to bring them on any more? We used to fly with my grandson when he was little and carried it on board.


30 posted on 01/23/2007 10:42:41 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: Red Badger
I won't miss them.........I've had enough of unruly kids in airplanes........

You've never lived until you've taken a 15 hour,non-stop,nighttime flight on a 747 containing about 100 screeching kids.I've done it several times (from Los Angeles to Sydney Australia).

31 posted on 01/23/2007 10:43:09 AM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: presidio9

As a million-miler with other carriers, and an ex-airline employee, may I be the first to say THANK YOU AIRTRAN!!!

Can you imagine how grateful the other passengers on the flight were?
Or is that no longer a consideration in our ego-centric world anymore?


32 posted on 01/23/2007 10:44:07 AM PST by tcrlaf (VOTE DEM! You'll Look GREAT In A Burqa!)
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To: Red Badger

I will be certain to use AirTran in the future.


33 posted on 01/23/2007 10:44:07 AM PST by go-dubya-04
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To: Alouette

Oh that's right, there is an age limit. It's been a good many years...I'd forgotten that.


34 posted on 01/23/2007 10:44:12 AM PST by prairiebreeze (I support the troops AND THE MISSION. I do not support Clintoons, RINOS or RATS.)
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To: presidio9
Her mom thinks it may have been because of the ear surgery Elly underwent earlier this month, and perhaps her memory of the discomfort and ear pressure she endured during the plane’s descent into Florida. For whatever reason, when they got on the plane, Elly started to cry and wouldn’t stop. Nor would she sit down — she plopped herself down on the floor in front of her seat and proceeded to throw a temper tantrum.

http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070121/COLUMN01/701210459/1008/NEWS02

Oh, our kid just had ear surgery! Lets fly to see Grandma and Grandpa in Florida! Yeah!

They just fell out of the running for Parents of the Year, IMO.

35 posted on 01/23/2007 10:45:08 AM PST by GoRepGo
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To: Red Badger

"I won't miss them.........I've had enough of unruly kids in airplanes.."

Stay out of grocery stores, malls, bookstores and restaurants.....these bratty kids know how to push their parents' buttons to get what they want....and they usually do.....


36 posted on 01/23/2007 10:45:13 AM PST by auto power
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Do you let your 16 month old hit you?


37 posted on 01/23/2007 10:45:39 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: presidio9

They should make the parents with the crying children sit next to the imams. We'll see what is louder, the yodeling to Allah or the toddler tantrum.


38 posted on 01/23/2007 10:45:50 AM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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To: Gay State Conservative

I've had a 8 hour flight from Paris to Atlanta with a kid that cried for most of the trip..........3 year olds should be put in checked baggage.........


39 posted on 01/23/2007 10:46:23 AM PST by Red Badger (Rachel Carson is responsible for more deaths than Adolf Hitler...............)
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To: JimRed

There was a comedian some years ago with a bit about wearing seatbelts on a plane.

"I'm in a hollow metal tube with wings on it under the command of a guy named "Bob" traveling in excess of 400 MPH descending at a 45 degree angle straight for the earth and I'm pretty sure we're not gonna MISS... but I'm not worried, cause I got my seatbelt on."


40 posted on 01/23/2007 10:46:25 AM PST by Lunatic Fringe (LF for President! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1771780/posts)
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To: DCBryan1

I like ATA radio commercials. this would be as annoying as the passenger who communicates by singing opera.


41 posted on 01/23/2007 10:46:48 AM PST by Rakkasan1 ((Illegal immigrants are just undocumented friends you haven't met yet!))
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To: presidio9

"the father said his family will never fly air tran again."

might be good news for the two or three hundred people who fly on the next air tran flight.


42 posted on 01/23/2007 10:46:58 AM PST by ripley
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To: presidio9

I hope they buy the little precious a nice American Girl doll, an X-Box, and a shiny new car. /s


43 posted on 01/23/2007 10:48:16 AM PST by toddlintown (Six bullets and Lennon goes down. Yet not one hit Yoko. Discuss.)
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To: John D; Virginia Ridgerunner

The fact is that there's no way to criticize the airline. They could not take off until the child was seated and buckled. The child refused to be seated and buckled. The parents claimed they could not get her to stay seated.


The airline had already delayed takeoff, which in itself is surprising, and it couldn't make 112 people sit there indefinitely waiting for them to calm their child down.

So they removed the problem, refunded the money, AND OFFERED A FREE FLIGHT to all of them. Quite generous.

Watching the show "Airline" on A&E, I've seen adults regularly banned from planes for less than what the child was doing. The airlines don't take off with passengers that can't be counted on to behave during a flight, because once you are off the ground you are stuck.

If you can't get the kid to sit quietly during the 15 minutes of boarding, there's no way you can guarantee the child will sit quietly in her seat during the landing, or if they hit a bumpy spot, or while they are trying to serve drinks. They can't guarantee she won't run up and down the aisles, try to open the cockpit door, hit other passengers, and generally make life miserable for everybody.


44 posted on 01/23/2007 10:48:16 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: auto power
Stay out of grocery stores, malls, bookstores and restaurants...

I can walk out of grocery stores, malls, bookstores and restaurants. It's kinda hard to leave an aricraft at 39,000 feet and it's -80°F outside.........

45 posted on 01/23/2007 10:48:20 AM PST by Red Badger (Rachel Carson is responsible for more deaths than Adolf Hitler...............)
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To: presidio9
The father said his family would never fly AirTran again.

GOOD! Then if I fly Airtran I will have no risk of sitting next to these two obnoxious a$$holes and their vile ill controlled brat.

46 posted on 01/23/2007 10:48:50 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government)
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To: CatoRenasci

The issue wasn't a crying kid... the kid was hiding under her seat before takeoff (although I don't know how, I can barely fit my laptop bag down there).


47 posted on 01/23/2007 10:49:47 AM PST by Lunatic Fringe (LF for President! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1771780/posts)
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To: r9etb

I agree. I haven't flown with my 3 year old daughter yet because I've seen her become overtired, and no amount of "beating" or anything else is going to improve the situation. When a three year old is tired and throwing a fit, there is nothing you can do but put them in their bed and close the door. Having said that, I wouldn't have complained a bit if we got thrown off of a flight. It's just part of having a three year old. No harm, no foul. The airline did the right thing. They can only wait so long.


48 posted on 01/23/2007 10:49:53 AM PST by badbass
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To: badbass

Yup.


49 posted on 01/23/2007 10:50:52 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Charlespg

"BRAT"

You said it! She was hitting her parents? One of my kids tried to hit me one time. Let's just say he never tried it again.

This child, like her parents and so many others in our society, is desperately in need of discipline. Good on Air Tran for throwing them off. Air Tran just became my airline of choice.


50 posted on 01/23/2007 10:52:04 AM PST by LadyNavyVet
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