Airbus Wiring Fixed For First A380 Only

Reuters ^ | January 26th, 2007 | Al Reuters

[smonk]

Airbus on Friday toned down expectations of an immediate solution to the technical glitches which delayed its A380 superjumbo project, saying wiring problems had been solved for the first aircraft only.

A German news report last week said that Airbus had solved the wiring installation problems, which delayed A380 deliveries by an average two years and drove the planemaker into the red.

Aviation watchers and some investors cheered the report, saying it closed the worst chapter in Airbus's 30 year history.

Gerhard Puttfarcken, head of Airbus's German operations, said Airbus had passed a key milestone in completing wiring for the first A380 to be delivered to Singapore Airlines in October and handling the transition to cabin installation.

But work was still going on to solve the long-term issues.

Airbus expects to start building a common design platform in the summer between its main French and German plants. It will be fully operational from the production of the 26th plane onwards.

"We are creating the conditions so that in future there will be one common platform from all the sites," Puttfarcken told a briefing for French journalists when asked to clarify the report.

Engineers found last year that wiring designed in Hamburg could not be fitted into A380s on the assembly line in Toulouse.

Experts blamed Airbus's failure to introduce sophisticated 3D design tools in Hamburg at the same time as Toulouse.

That in part reflected the four nation planemaker's incomplete integration, according to a diagnosis carried out by outside industrialist Christian Streiff, who served briefly as Airbus CEO last year and launched its Power8 restructuring plan.

The A380 backlogs cost the Airbus parent some EUR5 billion euros (USD$6.45 billion) in sacrificed profits over four years and triggered a political storm in both France and Germany, where most of Airbus's 55,000 staff are based. Britain and Spain also have Airbus factories.

[Moose4]

Gerhard Puttfarcken, head of Airbus's German operations

It's a double ping--aerospace AND silly names!

}:-)4

[Red Badger]

So the wiring was Hamburger and Too-Loose?..........

[kinoxi]

I guess they need more duck tape.

[smonk]

airbus is apparently being run by Emily Litella.

"Never Mind".

[spokeshave]

All your ISO 9000 audits belong to US

[Yo-Yo]

Translation: "We hand-wired the first SIA aircraft, but we still haven't gotten the automated wiring harness fabrication perfected yet."

[TommyDale]

Airbus Repair Kit

[finnigan2]

Duct tape - The Airbus secret weapon.

[Puckster]

"Airbus on Friday toned down expectations of an immediate solution to the technical glitches which delayed its A380 superjumbo project, saying wiring problems had been solved for the first aircraft only."

Ho Ho! First you had me then you lost me..........

They must be totally lost on the wiring.

Didn't the EU push for the ISO's? Now they can't make heads nor tails out of it.

Anyway, the A320 family was fraught with problems and I hold no hope for the A380 customers that the headaches won't continue.

[Incorrigible]

It will be fully operational from the production of the 26th plane onwards.

They plan on producing more than 26 A380's?

The gross weight problem never seems to get mentioned in these articles nor do I remember it being resolved. That would be a much more difficult problem than the wiring so I guess that needs to be kept on the down low.

[smonk]

found in the A380 website's Guestbook .

Liam Alagh - Australia - 20 Jan 05 Well done airbus on the new A380s i cant wait to get on one in 2006.

looks like liam is going to have to wait until 2008 ;)

and they only accepted comments for four days, from the looks of things.

[Puckster]

Okay, so this is the scenario for " Liam Alagh - Australia". The first A380 flies and Liam has his ticket to board, however, like the A320 family that would have to block seats at certain airports due to the angle of ascent and air temperatures....etc, Liam is informed that he can't fly due to weight restrictions on the A380.

Yes Liam, you will have to wait.

[par4]

I read an article in the IEEE magazine just last night on this problem. It seems that the Germans and French were using two different versions of the same autocad program for the drawings which were not 100% compatible.

And on a similar related topic, the wiring in the aircraft is alumninum, not copper. I'm not an aerospace engineer, but every house and business is wired with copper, so that's good enough for me.

[smonk]

last I read, it was still 5 tons overweight. and whatever it is they have to do to resolve the wiring problem isn't going to make it any lighter. and they also have a weakness in the wing that I don't recall being yet addressed with a design change. that is certainly going to exacerbate the weight issue.

and in october, they announced that it would be 10 years and 420 units sold (up from 270) before they would break even. that projection is getting nothing but more gloomy with the passage of time.

[smonk]

another adaptation made because of weight; aluminum is lighter than copper. cheaper, too. and arguably more dangerous.

[Puckster]

Aluminum wiring, for a while, was used in housing, however, it is less conductive and more likely to develop resistance at the connection point than copper. There were considerable problems with fires starting at connection points in houses.

http://members.tripod.com/~masterslic/FAQ-2/13.html

With more and more aircraft maintenance being done by third-parties, I can assure you that as critical as the aluminum wiring/connector issue is, third-party maintenance will not be able to address the need for detail. Ergo, when this problem and need for detail is addressed, the cost of maintenance will rise on the A380 fleet.

[Greystoke]

Yep, Airbus has really received a good Puttfarcken in the last couple years. Personally, I wouldn't choose to fly on a Airbus, since they have no stick and rudder pedals. All done by dials and buttons.

[Yo-Yo]

Personally, I wouldn't choose to fly on a Airbus, since they have no stick and rudder pedals.

Why that's the most uninformed, absurd statement I've ever read. Of course the Airbus has a stick and rudder pedals. It's just that you have to ask the flight computer permission to use them!

No offense!

[par4]

Actually, I'm aware of the use of aluminum in houses and its subsequent removal. Aluminum is still used for service entrances in residential installations where the larger gauges allow for greater heat dispersion and the sizing allows for the increased resistance.

My (poorly stated) point was that the consortium was using alumnium instead of copper, which I believe is not what's used everywhere else. Sorry.

PS- I fly > 75K miles per year and have only taken an Airbus once in the last two years.

[Puckster]

I believe the stick, actually a game controller looking handle on either side of the pilot and copilot, is intuitive only more so to the many military pilots now flying commercial.

Here's a link to see the joy-stick on the A320 family.

http://www.simpit.de/a320dim/page_03.htm

http://www.simpit.de/a320dim/page_04.htm

I had the opportunity to fly the A320 in a simulator for taxiing training, however, they let us try a landing with the joy-stick. It wasn't pretty, made it to the end of the runway and then some, but I gotter down with no injuries, just a little shaking........okay a lot of shaking.

[appeal2]

What about the wake turbulence problem that will vitually close down airports when multiple 380's are landing, if such a future ever comes to pass?

[Puckster]

Didn't mean to preach.

As an example of the cost cutting measures that Airbus uses everywhere they can, the A320 family ACP (Audio Control Panel) doesn't use the time valued practice of gold plated connectors inside the panel. The inter-board connectors are all tin-lead coated connectors. This results in galvanic corrosion problems. Team, the manufacturer of this particular unit, never could come close to it's MTBUR warranty of 5,000 hours. After fighting yearly alongside with my manager against the Team rep's from Canada, they finally agreed they had a problem. I even spec'd a European source for the same kind of connector that was gold plated but they never did spec the change officially for the fleet.

I finally realized they would not do that because that would mean a reduced flow of units to their own repair facility
for these units, depriving them of an already figured in profit margin upon the original design.

The point being, Airbus doesn't build quality, like I was used to seeing in Boeing products. Every detail in the Airbus fleet is calculated to bring in profit to their associated vendors. Plain and simple.

[Yo-Yo]

The thing that always got me with the Airbus sidestick is that for the Pilot the stick in on the left, and for the 1st Officer it is on the right.

You move seats and now you have to re-learn your motor skills with the stick!

Those stick inputs are treated by the flight computer more as "requests" than "commands."

[Puckster]

One thing I will say about the A320 avionics design, it has redundancy up the yazoo.

But the airframe is built way to light. But, just like the A320, in order to make the promised, or not, performance spec's, the A380 will be built to get out the door, then the Airbus hemorrhaging will begin in earnest when they have to fund all the warranty issues.

On the A320, it was the tail-strike mod, the pintle mod, the cabin deck mod at the wing roots.....etc.

It's truly a design consortium that produces airplanes meant to be scraped after 15 years.

[Greystoke]

Is the red button the fire button? ;-)

[btallier]

My question is this. Did the Airbus A380 program receive ISO certification?

[Puckster]

"Is the red button the fire button?"

Can't remember, might be the eject button.

[Yo-Yo]

I like the twist tie around the Captain's Rain Repellant breaker (Row D Breaker 1.) I guess he doesn't get a spritz of repellant!

http://www.simpit.de/a320dim/a320co068.jpg

[Tax-chick]

Gerhard Puttfarcken, head of Airbus's German operations

I'd change my name.

[Paleo Conservative]

Aluminum wiring, for a while, was used in housing, however, it is less conductive and more likely to develop resistance at the connection point than copper. There were considerable problems with fires starting at connection points in houses.

There was a pediatric surgeon in Corpus Christi who lived in a mansion on Ocean Drive that was built in the mid to late 1970's with aluminum wiring. One night in October 2004, an electrical fire engulfed the house. The bedrooms were all on the second floor, but being a mansion, each story had extra high ceilings may 16 foot high, so the second story was about as high as a third story on most houses. One daughter made it outside. The doctor's wife jumped from her bedroom window but landed on her head and died from head injuries. The doctor and youngest child a son were killed by the fire in the master bedroom. The only survivors were the daughter who escaped and another daughter who was a freshman in college. For months families of former patients of his laid wreaths, flowers and candles at the gate and white brick wall that enclosed the perimiter of the property where the house used to stand.

[Paleo Conservative]

If you want on or off my aerospace ping list, please contact me by Freep mail.

[antiRepublicrat]

Airbus expects to start building a common design platform in the summer between its main French and German plants. It will be fully operational from the production of the 26th plane onwards.

In other words, smooth, full-capacity production won't begin until the 26th plane, possibly years hence. Until then, each aircraft will be individually jury-rigged. Do I have that right?

[smonk]

---In other words, smooth, full-capacity production won't begin until the 26th plane, possibly years hence. Until then, each aircraft will be individually jury-rigged. Do I have that right?---

good point. until the 26th plane, they will all be at least slightly different. maintenance nightmare in the making.

[antiRepublicrat]

"jerry-rigged" Duh!

[smonk]

depending on how popular A380s become, and the size of the gap that the turbulence ultimately requires, the A380 could actually make crowding in the skies and airport delays worse than they are now.

[zipper]

Gerhard Puttfarcken, head of Airbus's German operations

It's a double ping--aerospace AND silly names!

well at least that's better than Futtbucken

[zipper]

"Airbus on Friday toned down expectations of an immediate solution to the technical glitches which delayed its A380 superjumbo project, saying wiring problems had been solved for the first aircraft only."

I know the feeling. I do that every year with the Christmas lights. I can get them untangled but at the end I can't tell you how I did it!

[gogeo]

I think it also means you can forget about on-time deliveries.

[smonk]

I think airbus has already knocked the meaning out of the phrase "on time", but yeah, I agree. ;)

[Lx]

...like the A320 family that would have to block seats at certain airports due to the angle of ascent and air temperatures...

Please explain?

[skeptoid]

I say 'jury rig'.

Jury Mast knot

It's nautical.

An the there is "jerry built"

[Pilsner]

Aluminum wiring... There were considerable problems with fires starting at connection points in houses.

My memory is that aluminum wiring is fine, so long as each and every breaker, wall socket, light fixture, switch and whatnot the aluminum wiring is connected to, is rated for aluminum wiring. If you run aluminum wiring to an unrated connection, you can get a fire. Builders started using aluminum wiring in the 1970s, when the price of copper shot up, but kept using the same old plugs and switches, which were rated for copper wire only. Hence the rash of house fires.

Since it is not possible, for the entire lifetime of the structure, to prevent some yahoo who does not know, or does not care, from connecting aluminum wiring to a plug or which rated for copper only, aluminum wiring has fallen out of residential use.

[norton]

"We hand-wired the first SIA aircraft, but we still haven't gotten the automated wiring harness fabrication perfected yet."

And probably don't have accurate diagrams, shop aids, or even measurements to repeat the job for "fixed" 380 number two.

[brooklin]

"Duct tape - The Airbus secret weapon"


If the flying public can't find you handsome... they may as well find you handy.

[PAR35]

"Airbus on Friday toned down expectations of an immediate solution to the technical glitches which delayed its A380 superjumbo project, saying wiring problems had been solved for the first aircraft only."

Sounds like they wired by hand, it worked, and then they discovered they didn't even document what they had done so they could replicate it on the next plane.

[Tainan]

"On the A320, it was the tail-strike mod, the pintle mod, the cabin deck mod at the wing roots.....etc.
It's truly a design consortium that produces airplanes meant to be scraped after 15 years."

Designed by Microsoft maybe?

[N. Theknow]

Gerhard Puttfarcken, head of Airbus's German operations

It's a double ping--aerospace AND silly names!

Chuckle everytime I think of the German word for terrible - furchtbar.

As in: Airbus haben furchtbar inordnung gemacht.

[N. Theknow]

Aluminum wiring, for a while, was used in housing, however, it is less conductive and more likely to develop resistance at the connection point than copper. There were considerable problems with fires starting at connection points in houses.

IIRC - Aluminum is so malleable that any connections have to be re-tightened about every 6 months or so as they become loose.

And that is in houses that do not take off and land several times a week.

[bert]

.....Aluminum is so malleable .....

I think the problem is related to thermal expansion. As the temperature changes the aluminum actually moves around and loosens up.