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EDITORIAL: Spank this proposal
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 1/26/7 | Editor

Posted on 01/26/2007 1:12:33 PM PST by SmithL

IT'S ALWAYS regrettable when a perfectly reasonable point is ridiculed and caricatured because of a politician's clumsy attempt to legislate human judgment with a black-or-white solution.

So it goes with the much-lampooned proposal by Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, to outlaw the spanking of children age 3 years and younger. Under her measure, a parent who spanked a child could be convicted of a misdemeanor punishable by a $1,000 fine or a year in jail. The absolutist argument promoted by Lieber is that spanking a young child is never appropriate.

Many parents, including those of us who philosophically agree with her concerns about the propriety or even the effectiveness of using physical means to get a child's attention, know that this zero-tolerance measure is going too far. The classic example is the defiant child who continues to dart into the street or toward other dangerous situations. A couple of firm pats on the behind can be worth 1,000 time-outs or reprimands.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: sallylieber; spank
Lieber needs a spanking.
1 posted on 01/26/2007 1:12:35 PM PST by SmithL
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To: SmithL

Spanking works. I have not crawled under the dining room table and bitten anyone on the ankle in over 35 years.


2 posted on 01/26/2007 1:14:31 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady
I have not crawled under the dining room table and bitten anyone on the ankle in over 35 years.

You mean those rumors posted in the Freeper Canteen are NOT true?

;->

3 posted on 01/26/2007 1:16:12 PM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
IF only Mom had used that on me to break the habit...

... ummm, some nice looking gams you got there, Perfect.

4 posted on 01/26/2007 1:16:21 PM PST by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: SmithL

I can't tell if she's spankable without a picture.

That Arizona House Lefty bisexual chick who wants to define the minutemen as terrorists is definitely spankable.


5 posted on 01/26/2007 1:16:53 PM PST by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: A_perfect_lady

Likewise, I haven't taken anything out of my mothers purse, or locked my sister in the attic for roughly 40 years. It worked on me!


6 posted on 01/26/2007 1:17:32 PM PST by mek1959
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To: You Dirty Rats
OK. Assemblywoman Sally Lieber:


7 posted on 01/26/2007 1:20:35 PM PST by Rio (Don't make me come over there....)
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To: SmithL
The juvenile justice system holds parents financially accountable for their children's' misbehavior. If the state is going to dictate how children are to be raised, is it prepared to accept the consequences of their misbehavior rather than place it on the parents? By the way, where in the Constitution does it allow the government to tell parents how to raise their children?
8 posted on 01/26/2007 1:25:18 PM PST by raftguide
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To: Rio

I'll pass.


9 posted on 01/26/2007 1:30:57 PM PST by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: You Dirty Rats

10 posted on 01/26/2007 1:31:23 PM PST by SmithL (Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
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To: SmithL

I had two choices. I could have waited patiently for my two-year old son to learn the lesson the hard way, no matter what the end result would have been.

Or, I could remove the bungy cord from around his neck and give him a swift pop on the behind... ensuring that he stops the practice.

Following this wingbat's guidelines would have resulted in my son's death.


11 posted on 01/26/2007 1:37:22 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife
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To: SmithL

IMHO, I'd rather risk jail for doing the right thing than allow my kids to turn into delinquents who don't know right from wrong.

What's next, will I have to drive them to a corner so they can buy crack?


12 posted on 01/26/2007 1:43:29 PM PST by AbeKrieger (There is no time like the present. Thank God for that.)
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To: SmithL
She'd only enjoy it.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

13 posted on 01/26/2007 1:45:37 PM PST by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: SmithL

San Fransisco in favor of spanking.

No real surprise there.....


14 posted on 01/26/2007 1:46:49 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: SmithL
I'm shocked to find this in the San Franfreako Comical. There is actually a glimmer of common sense in it.

The Head Editor must be on Neighbor Sick Leave this week.

15 posted on 01/26/2007 2:04:55 PM PST by Gritty (The MSM propaganda complex has us back to feasting on bubblegum for the mind-Frank Salvato)
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To: SmithL; All

As a family physician and the parent of two young boys I've been following this story over the last week with interest. First let me state that I think it is outrageous that the government would even presume to interfere with parents in the discipline of their children. Besides that I find it almost (I said almost) as irritating listening to the pundits especially when they use the terms “experts agree” or “the studies show that….” I have yet to see any one issue a challenge to these statements. What experts are they talking about? What studies are they referencing? The proponents of this legislation act as if it is an open and shut case.

Being the nerdy computer addicted physician that I am, I decided today being a slow clinic day to pull up from my favorite research site anything I could find on “spanking.” I was surprised to find that a MEDLINE/textbook search found only two textbook references and 35 journal articles most of which had nothing to do with discipline and if they did were not relevant to the discussion. (Survey and attitude articles). Below is a sampling of what I did find.


Behrman: Nelson Textbook of Pediatrics, 17th ed Chapter 5

Punishment involves issuing a negative stimulus or verbal reprimand, or inflicting physical pain, to reduce or eliminate an undesired behavior. Behavioral research on corporal punishment is inconclusive and conflicting about the long-term impact of spanking on subsequent behaviors such as antisocial actions and aggression. Clearly, physical punishment may be harsh or abusive.

Spanking in early childhood and later behavior problems: a prospective study of infants and young toddlers.
Slade EP - Pediatrics - 01-MAY-2004; 113(5): 1321-30
From NIH/NLM MEDLINE
Authors:
Slade EP; Wissow LS
Abstract:
OBJECTIVE: To explore the relationship of spanking frequency before age 2 with behavior problems near time of entry into school. METHODS: Children who were younger than 2 years were followed up approximately 4 years later, after they had entered school. The likelihood of significant behavior problems at follow-up was estimated in multivariate analyses that controlled for baseline spanking frequency and other characteristics. Participants were mothers from a large-scale national study and their children. Statistical analysis included an ethnically diverse sample of 1966 children aged 0 to 23 months at baseline. Two dichotomous indicators of behavior problems were used. The first indicated that maternal rating of child behavior problems exceeded a threshold. The second indicated that a mother met with a school administrator to discuss her child's behavior problems. RESULTS: White non-Hispanic children who were spanked more frequently before age 2 were substantially more likely to have behavior problems after entry into school, controlling for other factors. For Hispanic and black children, associations between spanking frequency and behavior problems were not statistically significant and were not consistent across outcome measures. CONCLUSION: Among white non-Hispanic children but not among black and Hispanic children, spanking frequency before age 2 is significantly and positively associated with child behavior problems at school age. These findings are consistent with those reported in studies of children older than 2 years but extend these findings to children who are spanked beginning at a relatively early age.


Boy! A lot of conclusive evidence there.

I have two wonderful boys seven and nine years old. They were both spanked I think in a calm and lovingly appropriate manner since they were toddlers. Interestingly I seem to have to do it less and less these days.

I would like to relate an anecdote that I will always remember and will continue to tell as this subject arises. I was a third year family practice resident when during our daily lunch conferences our left-leaning medical director brought in a child psychologist. This erudite scholar proceeded to tell us in no uncertain terms how horrific the act of spanking was. Our chief resident was a notorious conservative and challenged him head on. After a few minutes of heated debate our illustrious chief turned to the audience of some 30 young physicians and family practitioners in training and asked a very simple question: "were you spanked regularly as a child?” Every single hand in that room went up. I understand this is anecdotal and bears no scientific merit but it has always stuck in my mind as a counter to the “it will make them violent" "it will make them deviants of society" statements.


16 posted on 01/26/2007 2:27:58 PM PST by ejroth
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To: SmithL

Talk about spanking NOT THE BELT!! cracks me up.

I remember growing up NOT THE BELT!! we were given a choice, the belt NOT THE BELT!! or hand, in if we picked the hand NOT THE BELT!! we got the belt anyways.

Nothing bad ever came of me NOT THE BELT!!


17 posted on 01/26/2007 2:40:14 PM PST by Domandred
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To: ejroth; SmithL
I just reviewed her bio and it appears she is childless. If not, betcha dollars to donuts her kids were raised by nannies or daycare. http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/members/a22/bio.htm

She therefore wouldn't know that there's a little problem with hurting an under-three year-old by spanking - that little bottom is usually covered with a diaper or pull-up. The real effect from spanking comes from the humiliation of having their pants pulled down, turned over a knee and spanked, not any pain. But then, not having actually raised kids, she wouldn't understand that either.

We rely on time-out, sitting quietly in a chair alone in a room for one minute per year of age (two minutes is forever to a two year-old), taking away privileges, like TV or allowance, and rewards for good behavior. The only problem is, each child as a toddler tests the system by getting up out of the time out chair and looking at you like "OK, just what are you gonna do about it, Dad?" If you don't spank, you have a huge discipline problem from that day on. If you do spank, the lesson is learned in 1-3 spankings.

Now that our kids are getting older, we can go months or longer between any spankings in our house.

18 posted on 01/26/2007 2:53:36 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker
The Sacramento Bee had a great piece on this earlier: Steve Wiegand: Spanking bill merits a big hand including the following:

. . .Whereas Lieber acknowledges that she has never had children of her own but defends her credentials to carry such legislation on the grounds that lawmakers often carry bills on topics about which they know little or nothing; and

Whereas Lieber's proposal has already filled the Legislature's 2007 quota for at least one bill per session that sounds, looks and feels superfluous and goofy and draws "only-in-squirrelly-California" attention from chirpy morning TV talk shows and denunciations from knuckle- dragging radio talk show hosts; and...

19 posted on 01/26/2007 3:01:33 PM PST by SmithL (Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
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To: SmithL
LOL! She's a typical liberal buttinski who knows how everyone else should live their lives!
20 posted on 01/26/2007 3:05:29 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: SmithL

Here's my anecdotal evidence:

Me and my sister: spanked
My three cousins: not spanked EVER

Me and my sister: Well-adjusted, employed, productive citizens
My three cousins: 1 Stoner, 1 bi-polar heroin-addicted drunk, 1 DEAD

Extreme? Maybe, but a lifetime of watching their downfalls is all I need to know about children and discipline!


21 posted on 01/26/2007 9:35:09 PM PST by To Hell With Poverty (If this city were any 'bluer', it'd be spelled 'bleu'.)
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